AA767400
Topic Author
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:29 am

Miami is a very different city from the rest of the United States.

Huge Hispanic population and culture make it feel like you were outside of the U.S.. But many find that this exact culture makes most Americans uncomfortable because it is different. Those who don't speak Spanish can't deal with hearing it all over the city, with language being the number one problem most Americans have with Miami.

But what about all other non-Spanish speaking groups in Miami? They still contribute to the overall culture in Miami without having Spanish as their language. But many Americans still feel like their culture is not American culture.

I grew up in Miami and can say that being bilingual is something that is of great advantage. I feel like speaking Spanish while others who don't are around is rude. And also agree that speaking the official language of the country you are in is a must.

I find that Miami is a city that has evolved into it's own, and just because it is not your typical American city it is still American. The United States is changing fast, some say for the better, and some say for the worst.

I wrote this to find out more opinions on Miami and Hispanic culture in the U.S., because these are important parts of American culture.

AA767400
"The low fares airline."
 
kaddyuk
Posts: 3697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting AA767400 (Thread starter):
I feel like speaking Spanish while others who don't are around is rude

If avoidable, that statement is true for all languages. ESPECIALLY if you're talking ABOUT the person who doesn't understand.

Quoting AA767400 (Thread starter):
I wrote this to find out more opinions on Miami and Hispanic culture in the U.S., because these are important parts of American culture.

I've not visited the city, however i was surprised at the airport. Everywhere there were signs in spanish. I Even tried to ask a porter to help me with my bag and i wasn't sure he understood me correctly.

I'm not so arrogant to expect everyone to speak the same language of me but it definatly threw me off guard because i was in "America" not Spain. Then again, It didnt really get to me for long and i just accepted it and moved on to the hotel.
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:54 am

I've never been in Miami. From a visitor's perspective, I wouldn't have any difficulty with the concept that it is multilingual and multicultural.

However, the question is not so clear as to whether I would feel as comfortable if I were to live there. I would have to think about how I would react if I were to be faced with cultural influences fairly alien to me on a daily basis. I think that I would eventually start feeling a bit of alienation from all the non-Anglo influences, and I say this without any particular point of pride. Speaking frankly, I'm not entirely comfortable seeing places in Los Angeles where I can't read the store signs because they're in a different language; and I feel that there is a certain distancing that people engender when they speak in a non-English language in public. I wonder if this can be avoided?

It's interesting to me that, as a visitor, I would perceive things quite differently in that way. It makes me question the truth of the idea of multiculturalism even as to the putatively "harmless" aspect of it, when it comes down to it, and this is even though I would like to believe that a dash of multiculturalism is a beneficial thing.

Generally speaking, I am happy to live in Southern California, with the exceptions noted above. I would imagine that living in Miami would be fairly similar.

[Edited 2007-01-16 00:57:35]
What's fair is fair.
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:18 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 2):
Speaking frankly, I'm not entirely comfortable seeing places in Los Angeles where I can't read the store signs because they're in a different language; and I feel that there is a certain distancing that people engender when they speak in a non-English language in public. I wonder if this can be avoided?

You have some problems. I speak Polish to friends and family most of the time in public or whenever the hell I damn well please. I dont see what the distancing is. Every city in America has this and I see nothing wrong with it. Chicago has Polish, Spanish, Serbian...Detroit Arabic and Miami Spanish. I dont see how you can feel uncomfortable with such a thing as a store sign in a different language.
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 3):
Every city in America has this and I see nothing wrong with it. Chicago has Polish, Spanish, Serbian...Detroit Arabic and Miami Spanish. I dont see how you can feel uncomfortable with such a thing as a store sign in a different language.

It's simply a matter of practicality. How should I figure out whether a store has what I want, for example, if I can't even tell what it's selling?
What's fair is fair.
 
kaddyuk
Posts: 3697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 4):
It's simply a matter of practicality. How should I figure out whether a store has what I want, for example, if I can't even tell what it's selling?

Then that is the stores problem. You Have to be able to get over your own in-security and actually go inside to find out what they sell.

Thats if you're honestly care what they sell, and if you dont... Then it shouldnt matter WHAT language the store name is written in...

Lets be honest, would you avoid shopping at Wall-Mart if it was written in greek?
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:45 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 4):
It's simply a matter of practicality. How should I figure out whether a store has what I want, for example, if I can't even tell what it's selling?

So youre saying a store should have something written in English for your convenience when most people in that area would rather have it in their language? Obviously youre not the customer who that store is focusing on if you cant read it.
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 3):
Chicago has Polish, Spanish, Serbian

Aye! Don't forget us Micks! And don't say that we don't speak a different language. With 8 pints of Guiness in me it sounds like I'm speaking gaelic.

Signed,
An Irish-American Raised In Chicago
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:52 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 6):
So youre saying a store should have something written in English for your convenience when most people in that area would rather have it in their language?



Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 5):
Thats if you're honestly care what they sell, and if you dont... Then it shouldnt matter WHAT language the store name is written in...

I don't mind if the sign is in a foreign language in areas populated by the people who speak it, as long as it's also in English.

There is also the question of integration to be considered.
What's fair is fair.
 
AA767400
Topic Author
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:58 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 3):
I speak Polish to friends and family most of the time in public

I do the same in Spanish. I can't help but speak in their native language especially if they don't understand when I speak to them in English.

But my family is from Puerto Rico where both English and Spanish are official, and they fly back and forth between the mainland and Puerto Rico often. So when it comes to that generation learning English completely is a hard objective. Especially when you frequent both worlds.
"The low fares airline."
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8558
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:00 am

AF, perhaps you simply have a deep-seated insecurity about this sort of thing.

I've lived in Japan for two years and could easily complain about the non-anglo influences manifested before me on a daily basis. Guess what? I don't...because I choose to be here. (Incredibly, other expats do complain about that very thing...then go back where ya came from!)

Just as you chose to live in one of the most multiethnic metropolises in the world.

[Edited 2007-01-16 02:01:23]
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 10):
AF, perhaps you simply have a deep-seated insecurity about this sort of thing.

Maybe it's insecurity, but maybe it's legitimate concern that balkanization is a rather dangerous thing. Language is one of the few things that unite people in this country, and if you dispense with it as a sort of societal glue, then the polity is all the weaker.
What's fair is fair.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8558
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:06 am

I would argue it's the pursuit of a mostly unattainable lifestyle that unites most Americans...but that's just me.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:10 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 12):
I would argue it's the pursuit of a mostly unattainable lifestyle that unites most Americans...but that's just me.

I would say that it's more than one thing. Pursuit of the "American Dream" is also part of the equation, that's for sure.
What's fair is fair.
 
kaddyuk
Posts: 3697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:32 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
There is also the question of integration to be considered.

Ahhh the old "What About Integration" question.

The only people who care about "Integration" are those who have a problem with accepting "Integration".

Simple... Accept that there are stores with signs not in english and you've just "integrated"...
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 6):
So youre saying a store should have something written in English for your convenience when most people in that area would rather have it in their language? Obviously youre not the customer who that store is focusing on if you cant read it.

Nobody cares what you do and how you talk at home, you can even have little Poland if want. However you're still in the United States. Aerospacefan was trying to make the point that much of LA has turned into little Mexico, not just a few stores.

Quoting AA767400 (Thread starter):
Miami is a very different city from the rest of the United States.

Huge Hispanic population and culture make it feel like you were outside of the U.S.. But many find that this exact culture makes most Americans uncomfortable because it is different. Those who don't speak Spanish can't deal with hearing it all over the city, with language being the number one problem most Americans have with Miami.

I went to Miami and didn't feel like I wasn't in the U.S. It is very obvious that there is a definite Cuban and Latin influence however I really enjoyed the atmosphere over there and the whole Miami culture. Very different from LA where all you see is ghettos and poverty.
 
AA767400
Topic Author
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:53 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 15):
Aerospacefan was trying to make the point that much of LA has turned into little Mexico, not just a few stores.

Los Angeles has many areas where stores with languages other than English are present, not just Spanish. And for the record, Los Angeles is a Spanish named city as well as MANY streets and areas in California and the Southwest due to that area being yes, part of Mexico and before that Spain.

It never turned into "Little Mexico", It has always had that culture even before the Yankees came in. It just increased even more.
"The low fares airline."
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8558
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:22 am

It never turned into "Little Mexico", It has always had that culture even before the Yankees came in. It just increased even more.

Bravo, sir. Someone knows the real Los Angeles  Smile
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:41 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 15):
Nobody cares what you do and how you talk at home, you can even have little Poland if want. However you're still in the United States. Aerospacefan was trying to make the point that much of LA has turned into little Mexico, not just a few stores.

The United States does not have an official language.

Neither does it have laws for ordering private businesses to label anything in English.

Maybe we should change the name of Los Angeles also? While we are at it lets change San Diego and San Francisco...oh wait you see the trend there in names...wonder why they are not English based...lets ponder a moment more and see just where that influence came from and in what age. Yes thats right, an age way before Americans acquired CA.

If you dont like it then try to change it by suggesting such a law and pushing your representative from the House to vote yes for the new immigration bill which would label English the official language, until then stop bitching about nothing and learn another language...something thats as hard for an Anglo-Saxon American to do as acquiring a passport.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8558
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:52 am

Hey, I'm trying my best but Japanese wasn't offered in my high school. I took four years of Spanish instead. It's a lot harder to learn as an adult - someone decided to make all of the grammar backwards!  Wink
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:24 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 18):
The United States does not have an official language.

Well, it's a bit more complicated than that.

Please see, e.g.:

http://www.us-english.org/inc/

I appreciate the comments in this thread; I think it is important to balance concerns for integration with due regard for diversity.

Special recognition is offered to the contribution of AirWillie6475, which is much appreciated.

For those who are interested, both California and Florida recognize English as each state's official language. Please see, e.g.:

California's Constitutional provision enshrining the English language as the official language of California:

http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/states.html#ca

Florida's Constitutional provision regarding same as regards Florida:

http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/states.html#fl

[Edited 2007-01-16 04:35:19]
What's fair is fair.
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 18):
The United States does not have an official language.

Wow.....

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 18):
Maybe we should change the name of Los Angeles also? While we are at it lets change San Diego and San Francisco...oh wait you see the trend there in names...wonder why they are not English based...lets ponder a moment more and see just where that influence came from and in what age. Yes thats right, an age way before Americans acquired CA.

You're saying people have the right to come over here, most illegaly, and change our ways so they don't have to assimilate because a couple of names are in Spanish?
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 5):
Thats if you're honestly care what they sell, and if you dont... Then it shouldnt matter WHAT language the store name is written in...

Lets be honest, would you avoid shopping at Wall-Mart if it was written in greek?

It's "Wal" not "Wall" (only one l), just for future reference, named after Sam Walton, the founder.
But don't be ridiculous. If the name of a restuarant or store was written in Greek, I would know they most likely sell Greek food or Greek products. But if the menu was also in Greek, I wouldn't have a clue as to what I'm ordering.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 18):
Maybe we should change the name of Los Angeles also? While we are at it lets change San Diego and San Francisco

Eh, the "The Angels Angels" (Los Angeles Angles) sounds pretty stupid.  wink 

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 15):
I went to Miami and didn't feel like I wasn't in the U.S. It is very obvious that there is a definite Cuban and Latin influence however I really enjoyed the atmosphere over there and the whole Miami culture.

 checkmark 
No different than being in Hawaii from the culture standpoint, though most of the locals do speak English.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 21):
You're saying people have the right to come over here, most illegaly, and change our ways so they don't have to assimilate because a couple of names are in Spanish?

I think what he's saying is that the people who live in states like CA, FL, TX, etc. live in areas once controlled by Spain and Mexico before being cotrolled by the United States, hence the reason for Mexican culture having influence in the area.


On this subject, I will say this though: Don't come to my country and expect me to learn your language. You came here. My same philosophy applies for Americans going to other countries. Don't get pissed at locals who don't know English. I get amused when teams on the Amazing Race get pissed because they cant find someone who speaks knows English. Ummm, you're in their country genius.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:13 pm

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 21):
You're saying people have the right to come over here, most illegaly, and change our ways so they don't have to assimilate because a couple of names are in Spanish?

Most immigrants in the USA are here legally, and most of the asimiliate quite well. Quit your bitching and moaning because its something thats been going on in the USA since 1776.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 21):
Wow.....

Whats wow about this? There is no federal law that says this. Heres a good one, the official language of New Mexico is English and Spanish.

Grow up, you're 16-20 and you dont know squat about what it means to learn a different language from the start and be dropped in a different culture not knowing a word. I came to the USA in 93' when I was 8 years old not even knowing how to say Hello and scored a 36 on the English comprehension part of that joke of a test called the ACT. Stupid statements like "I dont think its right to see a storefront in a different language" only come out of people who have never been outside of their suburb. Quit moaning because globalization has not been going on since yesterday.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 20):
I appreciate the comments in this thread; I think it is important to balance concerns for integration with due regard for diversity.

Special recognition is offered to the contribution of AirWillie6475, which is much appreciated.

You two have nothing to do with integration but everything to do with insecurity and some bullshit dream that you think everyone must adjust their signs to English because you cant buy a carpet from a Turkish guy.

No one is asking you to speak Spanish in any official government place so I dont see what the fuss is. If you have a problem with illegal immigration thats fine, but a sign in Spanish has nothing to do with that. Plenty of signs in Chicago's Greektown but I hardly think there are alot of illegal immigrants from Greece there...if any.
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:17 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 23):
If you have a problem with illegal immigration thats fine, but a sign in Spanish has nothing to do with that.

Signs in whatever language, appropriate to the ethnic district, are fine, so long as there is also an English-language version of whatever it is that the signs says.
What's fair is fair.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8558
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:29 pm

On this subject, I will say this though: Don't come to my country and expect me to learn your language. You came here. My same philosophy applies for Americans going to other countries. Don't get pissed at locals who don't know English. I get amused when teams on the Amazing Race get pissed because they cant find someone who speaks knows English. Ummm, you're in their country genius.

And as such, living in Japan is so strange. Everyone wants to learn my language!

Nevertheless, as a good citizen, I've determined it would be irresponsible and selfish of me not to learn the language here despite the relative ease with which I can live without it. If a lot of immigrants in the US felt the same, those with an axe to grind against them would find the handle suddenly broken off in many cases.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:29 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 23):
Most immigrants in the USA are here legally, and most of the asimiliate quite well.

No $hit, now come to Los Angeles.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 23):
Grow up, you're 16-20 and you dont know squat about what it means to learn a different language from the start and be dropped in a different culture not knowing a word.

You are very ignorant. How can you say this as if you know me. Do you?

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 23):
Stupid statements like "I dont think its right to see a storefront in a different language" only come out of people who have never been outside of their suburb.

Whether you like it or not, the guy has the right to express his opinion. He doesn't like it, it doesn't make him stupid. From what you have been saying and what your arguments have been you really sound like a naive kid, not a 23 year old. I think you've been living in little Poland a little too long, why don't you step out of your "suburb" you're in the U.S now.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:59 pm

Part of what ruined it for me as a Miami native (besides HAVING to speak Spanish to get a decent job) was the bilingual kids transposing in and out of both languages. It was ok for them to speak Spanish on 'their own time' but when they would change languages as many as three times in one sentence; that was it.
This space intentionally left blank
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:20 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 27):

Que pasa meng. How U doin? Vamos a lonchear.

I know what you mean, but the same can be said of all the kids wanting to use ebonics.

I don't have a problem with stores posting sogns in whatever language they want. If youhave a problem with that, go join the white supremacist movement.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:26 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 18):
The United States does not have an official language.

Of course they have. It's English.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:29 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 29):
Of course they have. It's English.

I was wondering when folks were going to mention that 28 states have adopted English as their official language!  Smile (It's all explained above at Reply 20.)
What's fair is fair.
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:57 am

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 26):
You are very ignorant. How can you say this as if you know me. Do you?

Because if that were to be true, than you wouldnt say the things that you say and you would have a totally different opinion.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 26):
Whether you like it or not, the guy has the right to express his opinion. He doesn't like it, it doesn't make him stupid. From what you have been saying and what your arguments have been you really sound like a naive kid, not a 23 year old. I think you've been living in little Poland a little too long, why don't you step out of your "suburb" you're in the U.S now.

Little Poland? Haha oh my, come and say that to my face. FYI, Ive grown up in every kind of place in the USA, first inner city of Chicago, then rural Wisconsin then a middle sized town (Madison) and now Florida (not mentioning 2 other countries) and I sure as hell can tell that your talking through your ass. Signs in English only in a private place is the same forceful ideology as Franco and Mussolini. Blind patriotism and forcing a language in private property has led to one too many conflicts.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 29):
Of course they have. It's English.

No its the de facto language, not official. Get your facts straight.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:08 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 31):
Get your facts straight.

Getting the facts straight for the second time. Official language: English!

"FLORIDA CONSTITUTION,
ARTICLE II, SECTION 9 (1988)
(a) English is the official language of the state of Florida..."


Complete text Florida Constitution: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...tes&CFID=10309827&CFTOKEN=30292215
http://www.proenglish.org/issues/offeng/states.html#fl

[Edited 2007-01-17 05:12:16]
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
AerospaceFan
Posts: 6990
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:43 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:16 pm

^^ That certainly seems familiar!  Wink
What's fair is fair.
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:21 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 31):
Get your facts straight.

Now get yours straight !  Wink
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
User avatar
zippyjet
Posts: 5089
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:42 pm

Miami, Miami Beach and for that matter Florida is fantastic to visit but, I wouldn't want to live there. Part of the magic, glamor and allure is visiting, the food, the diverse culture, the beach and the babes. But, for me, living, working and driving in this sub tropical paradise for me would get old. Reality and vacationing are two different animals. Also, to live comfortably, in Miami/Miami Beach, you need a lot of $$$$. The divide between the very rich and the very poor can be hearbreaking. Miami Beach has risen from the ashes. As recently as 26 years ago, the beach was eroding, South Beach then was a deteriorating dying town. There was even talk of bulldozing all the old art decco buildings and building new, which would mean high rise condos run by the Lords Trump and Dezer. This has happened to what was once the funky 1950s "Googie" Sunny Asiles/North Miami Beach aka "Motel Row." The old motels are but a thing of the past and Trump and Dezer rule building 50 story towers of glass and steel where the starting price is in the 7 figure range.
Of course, there's always those pesky hurricanes. Miami and Miami Beach have generally dodged the bullets of the killer hurricanes. True, Andrew KO's
Homestead and southwest Miami Dade, Katrina did some damage and Wilma was a too close call. Sadly, the Miami/Miami Beach area is the number one target for that next big one category 4 or 5 Katrina like monster storm.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
tsaord
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:46 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:11 pm

Im learning spanish. I hope to be fluent one day...more so for travel and since I work at an airport its very useful.

But I do wonder about people I see at work everyday.......

Bulgarians and Polish people are everywhere at ORD with Prospect. Some of them have been here working and what not. Still can't understand me when I say hello. How do they get work? But it is fun helping them out since they help us, TSA officers a great deal with bags.

Then there are the latinos talking and everything in Spanish, I have seen some of them around here the 2 and a half years I have been working here and can't speak English very well or at all. I think if you come here on whatever basis and plan to work and live a good life learning that countries language is a top priority.

Im plaining a trip to Spain and I do NOT expect much help from signs or locals in English thats why I want to learn something of the language before I go somewhere. The same should apply everywhere.

Some of my co-workers of mostly Mexican and Puerto Rican decent have told me about grandparents of theirs who came here and still do not speak a word of english so they just watch Univision and Telemundo(GO LAURA lol). Their husbands would learn english and work while their wives just took care of the children and didn't really learn anything. I thought that was kind of sad.
there are icons, then there are legends, then there is rick flair
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:45 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:26 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 31):
Ive grown up in every kind of place in the USA, first inner city of Chicago, then rural Wisconsin then a middle sized town (Madison) and now Florida (not mentioning 2 other countries)

You keep saying that, that's nothing special. Some people swam to get to this country. What does that have anything to do this conversation?
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:44 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 29):
Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 18):
The United States does not have an official language.

Of course they have. It's English.



Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 32):
Getting the facts straight for the second time. Official language: English!

"FLORIDA CONSTITUTION,
ARTICLE II, SECTION 9 (1988)
(a) English is the official language of the state of Florida..."



Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 34):
Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 31):
Get your facts straight.

Now get yours straight !


 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Honestly you lack basic comprehension skills. I wrote USA and you gave me a quote from the FLORIDA constitution. Look at Reply 18.

Let me now tell you the difference between a STATE and FEDERAL Law. A Federal law applies to ALL states. A State law only applies to that state. Hence when I say USA has an official language, you are supposed to come back with some god damn quotation from the US Constitution not the Florida constitution.

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 37):
You keep saying that, that's nothing special. Some people swam to get to this country. What does that have anything to do this conversation?

It means that you have no bloody idea what you are talking about when you say that most people that change store signs to non-english ones are illegal immigrants as said in reply 21. Again, its their problem if they go to a government or public place and cant speak english (unless they are in New Mexico or Puerto Rico where its official). If you dont want to immigration and the influx of languages, vote to close USA borders. Ordering people to speak and write a language on their own time is Hitleresque.

[Edited 2007-01-17 07:46:17]
 
LOT767-300ER
Posts: 8526
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2001 12:57 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:50 pm

TACAA320...refute this son.

http://july.fixedreference.org/en/20...kipedia/List_of_official_languages

"The USA Federal Government does not have an official language; English is the first language by custom, not law. See English-only movement. English is official language in the following states and territories: "
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:40 pm

If you come to the United States, you should learn English. One can hold onto their customs and traditions, but you should learn English.
If people immigrate here legally, its great. All the power to them. The Illegal immigrants are criminals and should be dealt with accordingly.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:05 pm

Is this thread really about Miami?
International Homo of Mystery
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:11 pm

I think its more about the Miami experience, and immigrants assimilating actually.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
User avatar
KaiGywer
Crew
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:56 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 3):
You have some problems. I speak Polish to friends and family most of the time in public or whenever the hell I damn well please. I dont see what the distancing is. Every city in America has this and I see nothing wrong with it. Chicago has Polish, Spanish, Serbian...Detroit Arabic and Miami Spanish. I dont see how you can feel uncomfortable with such a thing as a store sign in a different language.

Haha, me and a friend almost got kicked out of a taxi because the cab driver didn't want us talking Norwegian.
"If you guys don't stop talking that foreign language, I'm gonna stop right here and drop you off. I already got your money, so I don't care"

One complaint letter later, I got my $20 back  Smile

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 4):
It's simply a matter of practicality. How should I figure out whether a store has what I want, for example, if I can't even tell what it's selling?

By looking at the product? "Hmm...this really looks like chicken, but I can't understand what it is, so it's probably steak"

Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 26):
From what you have been saying and what your arguments have been you really sound like a naive kid, not a 23 year old. I think you've been living in little Poland a little too long, why don't you step out of your "suburb" you're in the U.S now.

He came the way of an immigrant, learned English, and now speaks it without a hint of an accent. More than I can say about most people where I work, who can't even speak simple sentences in English.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 29):
Of course they have. It's English.

Ehm, no.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 30):
I was wondering when folks were going to mention that 28 states have adopted English as their official language! (It's all explained above at Reply 20.)

50 states could have adopted English as their official language, but that still doesn't make the official language of the United States English, only those states.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 32):
Getting the facts straight for the second time. Official language: English!



Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 32):
"FLORIDA CONSTITUTION,



Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 18):
The United States does not have an official language.



Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 34):
Now get yours straight !

He did get his straight. You need a lesson in federal v. state law.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:21 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 41):
Is this thread really about Miami?

Nope. ASF is trying to derail the thread. Be on the lookout for ASF to start yet another thread, why English must be on all advertising.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 38):
Honestly you lack basic comprehension skills. I wrote USA and you gave me a quote from the FLORIDA constitution.

Yes. I was talking about Florida. Not the rest of the country. I admit my error,

BTW, Isn't this thread about Florida also? The title is " Miami And The Rest Of The Country." First come Miami, then after, the rest of the country.

"...Some Americans advocate making English the official language, which is the law in twenty-seven states..." More than 50% of the States.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 39):
TACAA320...refute this son.

http://july.fixedreference.org/en/20...uages

Checking such list I don't see for example the official language of Costa Rica which is Spanish since 1821.

Keep laughing. It is good to your health.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
User avatar
KaiGywer
Crew
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 45):
Yes. I was talking about Florida. Not the rest of the country.



Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 29):
Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 18):
The United States does not have an official language.

Of course they have. It's English.

 footinmouth 
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:11 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 43):
You need a lesson in federal v. state law.

And who is going to be the Professor? You ? No thanks.
My interest at this time is the Roman Law, not the Common Law.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 46):
Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 29):
Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 18):
The United States does not have an official language.

Of course they have. It's English.



Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 45):

Yes. I was talking about Florida.

Once again, I was talking about Florida. Just take a look to reply 45.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
User avatar
KaiGywer
Crew
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 47):
Once again, I was talking about Florida. Just take a look to reply 45.

Then you should have made that clear in the first place. Now you're doing an olympic exercise in backpaddling.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Miami And The Rest Of The Country.

Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 48):

Then you should have made that clear in the first place.

I did it. Just take a look.

Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 32):
"FLORIDA CONSTITUTION,
ARTICLE II, SECTION 9 (1988)
(a) English is the official language of the state of Florida..."


Complete text Florida Constitution: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/...tes&CFID=10309827&CFTOKEN=30292215
http://www.proenglish.org/issues/off...ml#fl
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], vikkyvik and 20 guests