IAH777
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Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:19 am

Another thread reminded me of this topic. In Texas, if one is DWI (.08 BAC, or higher) and causes an accident that results in another's death, he or she is elligible to be charged with intoxication manslaughter (intoxication assault if the other person is "merely" injured).

Here in Harris County, the District Attorney's office has been really hammering drunks, lately. They're even going so far as to charge some defendants with murder, on the basis that the person knowingly, recklessly or intentionally consumes enough alcohol to exceed the legal limit, drives and kills someone. Texas Penal Code differentiates murder from manslaughter in that murder requires intent. Manslaughter is causing a death recklessly or knowing that one's actions could cause death.

IMO, good on 'em. I feel murder is an appropriate charge, as any reasonable person knows that alcoholic beverages depress the nervous system and impair judgment. By getting behind the wheel, logic says that person's intent is to drive. No one accidentally pounds booze or mistakenly gets behind the wheel, so - in my eyes - the criteria has been met for the higher charge.

Floor's open for opinion, comparison and personal experience.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:26 am

Personally, I also believe that a murder charge is appropriate. If the effects of alcohol were not as widely published as they are, I wouldn't support doing so. However, the effects of drinking and driving are drilled into everyone on TV, the radio, billboards, electronic traffic control signs, print media, and every piece of TxDOT literature ever.

Personally I can't imagine a single person managing to make it to the age of sixteen without fully knowing the consequences driving intoxicated. If you put yourself in a position to be driving intoxicated, you are knowingly making yourself a lethal weapon.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
aerobalance
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting IAH777 (Thread starter):
opinion



Quoting IAH777 (Thread starter):
logic says

Right there I have an issue with that, where does it state, in any law that a person must use proper logic. If the ramifications of a death fall into either murder...

Quoting IAH777 (Thread starter):
Texas Penal Code differentiates murder from manslaughter in that murder requires intent

or manslaughter...

Quoting IAH777 (Thread starter):
Manslaughter is causing a death recklessly or knowing that one's actions could cause death.

...
then the appropriate charge should be filed.

It sounds to me as if this D.A. has higher aspirations...

I do believe that road vehicles need some sort of breath-analyzer lock that will only allow below limit operators to drive.
"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
 
AirCop
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:35 am

If the driver was an .08 BAC and lets say one violation which resulted in another death I would have a problem with the murder charge. Now if the guy/gal is .24 BAC, drag racing, or has a list of priors, then for all means go for the murder charge. In my county the only ones being charged with murder in the second degree are the high BA, and the death was the result of horrible driving behavior, like running a red light at 65mph..Of course one thing to charge another to get a conviction.
 
IAH777
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 2):
Right there I have an issue with that, where does it state, in any law that a person must use proper logic.

Its not written anywhere, to my knowledge, but having it written somewhere isn't necessary. The basis for the Texas Penal Code is what would a "reasonable person" believe is unlawful. "Reasonable" people have some ability to think logically. I can't think of an instance where a "reasonable" person would believe consuming a 12-pack of beer shortly before driving is lawful.
 
AirCop
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:54 am

Question for you IAH777, how many years ago did Texas finally passedan open container law? I believe Texas was one of or was the last state to make it illegal to drink alcohol in a motor vehicle.
 
IAH777
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:57 am

Its been three years (I think). Used to be the driver could just hand his can o' Lone Star Light to the back seat passenger and all was legit. Still, I see people stopping by the corner store for a tall boy on the drive home. Amazing....
 
MDorBust
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:58 am

I believe the open container law went into effect September 2001.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
IAH777
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:00 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
I believe the open container law went into effect September 2001.

That long? Yeesh...how time flies. The academy still seems so fresh in my mind, but I just hit six years.  old 
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:02 am

Feelnigs aside, I'd say that the letter of law would dictate a charge of manslaughter.

Far as I know, murder requires intent to kill. Drunk drivers do not typically intend to kill someone.

However, they do (or should) know that their actions could result in injury or death, which suggests the manslaughter charge.

Quoting IAH777 (Thread starter):
By getting behind the wheel, logic says that person's intent is to drive.

What if I cause an accident where someone is killed, but I'm not under the influence? My intent was still to drive. So I think that criteria cannot be utilized.

~Vik
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
IAH777
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:18 am

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 9):
What if I cause an accident where someone is killed, but I'm not under the influence?

All valid points (Aerobalance's, as well). In your example, I'd need to know if there were any other factors, such as excessive speed, weaving, driving the wrong way, etc. I concede that the manslaughter charge fits the criteria best, but I still believe there is a level of intent enough to consider the higher charge, or at least, present it to the Grand Jury. In my mind, if I know I am impaired by alcohol and I know I'm a danger to the public, but choose to drive anyway, I show intent. Just my opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree.

Just for reference, I've copied the statutes from the Texas Penal Code:

Quote:
§ 19.02. MURDER. (a) In this section:
(1) "Adequate cause" means cause that would commonly
produce a degree of anger, rage, resentment, or terror in a person
of ordinary temper, sufficient to render the mind incapable of cool
reflection.
(2) "Sudden passion" means passion directly caused by
and arising out of provocation by the individual killed or another
acting with the person killed which passion arises at the time of
the offense and is not solely the result of former provocation.
(b) A person commits an offense if he:
(1) intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an
individual;
(2) intends to cause serious bodily injury and commits
an act clearly dangerous to human life that causes the death of an
individual; or
(3) commits or attempts to commit a felony, other than
manslaughter, and in the course of and in furtherance of the
commission or attempt, or in immediate flight from the commission
or attempt, he commits or attempts to commit an act clearly
dangerous to human life that causes the death of an individual.



Quote:
§ 19.04. MANSLAUGHTER. (a) A person commits an offense
if he recklessly causes the death of an individual.



Quote:
§ 19.05. CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE. (a) A person
commits an offense if he causes the death of an individual by
criminal negligence.
 
Queso
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:39 am

Quoting IAH777 (Thread starter):
IMO, good on 'em. I feel murder is an appropriate charge, as any reasonable person knows that alcoholic beverages depress the nervous system and impair judgment. By getting behind the wheel, logic says that person's intent is to drive. No one accidentally pounds booze or mistakenly gets behind the wheel, so - in my eyes - the criteria has been met for the higher charge.

I agree.

Quoting IAH777 (Thread starter):
Floor's open for opinion, comparison and personal experience.

Ok.



 
connies4ever
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:50 am

Quoting IAH777 (Thread starter):
Another thread reminded me of this topic. In Texas, if one is DWI (.08 BAC, or higher) and causes an accident that results in another's death, he or she is elligible to be charged with intoxication manslaughter (intoxication assault if the other person is "merely" injured).



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 1):
Personally, I also believe that a murder charge is appropriate. If the effects of alcohol were not as widely published as they are, I wouldn't support doing so. However, the effects of drinking and driving are drilled into everyone on TV, the radio, billboards, electronic traffic control signs, print media, and every piece of TxDOT literature ever.



Quoting AirCop (Reply 3):
If the driver was an .08 BAC and lets say one violation which resulted in another death I would have a problem with the murder charge. Now if the guy/gal is .24 BAC, drag racing, or has a list of priors, then for all means go for the murder charge

All very valid and interesting p.o.v., gentlemen/ladies. To note: at 0.24 BAC you are not capable of making an informed opinion (in Canada anyway), so there can be an argument made that 'the host' (a bar, your friend at his/her house) has a duty and responsibility to _prevent_ you from using your vehicle.

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 4):
The basis for the Texas Penal Code is what would a "reasonable person" believe is unlawful.

Generally the basis for all penal law in North America - British Common Law. The 'reasonable person' test. But each incremental unit of alcohol consumed decreases one's ability to evaluate oneself by anything like the reasonalbe person test. You get to the point where you think you can still do it, but you can't. I've been there, fortunately pulled back and slept over.

Aug 6, 1971. I was in a fatal crash. Both drivers had been drinking -- and me too, quite honestly (was not driving). Ultimately, no criminal charges laid. I knew better. I was with a very pretty young lady, 17 years old. It was a hell of a first date.

To all: take it seriously.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:16 am

There has been recent evidence that cell phones drivers are more dangerous then drunk drivers.

http://www.psych.utah.edu/AppliedCog...itionLab/DrivingAssessment2003.pdf

I am not condoning drunk driving but I am questioning why states give out tickets for people who run red lights and cell phone talkers while putting people who drink and drive in prison.

A big part of it is MADD's government lobbying and the Federal highway funds that are taken from a state if it does not comply with the standards.

If someone gets into an accident because they ran a red light, they will most likely do no jail time while people who get pulled over drunk (without an accident)can do months or years.

If this law is passed what next? Everyone who gets a DUI will be charged for attempted murder?

I am only asking for equity. If people get into an accident for drinking, talking on cell phones, or running red lights they should be punished in the same manner.

We found that people are as impaired when they drive and talk on a cell phone as they are when they drive intoxicated at the legal blood-alcohol limit” of 0.08 percent, which is the minimum level that defines illegal drunken driving in most U.S. states, says study co-author Frank Drews, an assistant professor of psychology. “If legislators really want to address driver distraction, then they should consider outlawing cell phone use while driving.”

http://unews.utah.edu/p/?r=062206-1
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
MDorBust
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:25 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 13):
I am not condoning drunk driving but I am questioning why states give out tickets for people who run red lights and cell phone talkers while putting people who drink and drive in prison.

You can hang up a cell phone or ignore the person on the other end. You can't ignore drunk.

In regards to the study, the just hit the legal blood alcohol level. Most drunk drivers can't manage that little trick and are well over it. The study also didn't test the drunk drivers when they were tired and visability was reduced. Like it is at night when the bars close.

Not completely disagreeing, most cell phone drivers are accidents waiting to happen, just point out some issues with the study.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:51 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
Not completely disagreeing, most cell phone drivers are accidents waiting to happen, just point out some issues with the study.

Yeah, I hear you. It just distrubs me that the sentences for dui offenders are vastly different then for someone who ran a red light on purpose or for that matter for people who get in accidents while talking on a cell phone.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:32 am

Lots of valid points here, but what about the blind drunk idiot who has absolutely no idea what he's doing? While he may have known while he/she was getting drunk that he/she shouldn't drive, there are times when people get drunk past the point of reason. Of course they shouldn't be driving, but sometimes it is not prevented.

You can't possibly slam intent on someone who's so blind drunk that they cannot remember where they are or what decision they are making unconciously, even if they are the worst thing on the road at the time. Driving home is so habitual that this can happen without the drunk even knowing that it is. So, where do we draw the line here?

Look, I know this will probably be an unpopular position, but putting a blanket murder charge on a drunk driver cannot make sense, even if it seems like the right thing to do. There has to be intent to call them a murderer. A drop dead drunk can drive home, but have no understanding of how he/she did it. It's often the case that there are instances where there was no understanding of what he/she was doing, it was just instinct. Can't condone it, but it's hard for me to give them a murder charge in that state, as reprehensible as it is to drive that way.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
MDorBust
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:43 am

Here's my take on that angle Castleisland.

When I'm out to get drunk, my keys go into my pistol safe. And yes, so does my weapon. This happens before I take a single drink because I know for certain that rational decision making is the first victim of drinking and I won't risk taking the chance that my intoxicated brain does something very very stupid.

In short, the criminal intent isn't when the drunk person decides to drive but when they are sober and chose not to take steps to ensure they won't drive while drunk.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Queso
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 16):
You can't possibly slam intent on someone who's so blind drunk that they cannot remember where they are or what decision they are making unconciously, even if they are the worst thing on the road at the time.

I think the crime starts long before that though. When one orders the first drink with car keys in their pocket, they are potentially in a position equivilant to planning an assault or murder. Everything that happens after that point can be prevented by simply surrendering the keys before the first drink, when one is "of sound mind". Not doing so can be looked upon as "intent".

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 16):
putting a blanket murder charge on a drunk driver cannot make sense, even if it seems like the right thing to do.

Well, maybe as a deterrent we could make castration the penalty for a first offense and hold off on the death penalty until the second offense. We'll figure out something for the Fifi's too.

Edit: Damn, MD beat me to it. We said almost the same thing.

[Edited 2007-01-20 03:53:17]
 
ltbewr
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:53 am

Typically, a DWI based manslaughter conviction is a Felony in the USA with a sentence is 2 to 4 years, where at least one person is killed, with much longer sentences where multiple persons are killed or in some states for severe drunk driving above .15 BAC. Rarely will the sentence be shorted by parole. You may also get to serve time in full prison, not a 'minimum security' facility, thus subject to the abuses one can face there. You may also be under probation for years thereafter.
In most cases, one will also lose the privilege (yes, it isn't a right) to have a drivers licence for several years beyond their sentence or even for life and may be denied from obtaining a commercial, bus or school bus licence for life. In most states they will probably have to go to rehabilitation at their costs and pay huge dollar fines. You may also be denied the right to vote in elections for many years or for the rest of your life.
Then one may face the liability costs not covered by their insurance, or for court judgements. One may lose all their assets including their family home, car, other possessions, or assessed to pay damages perhaps for the rest of their life. It may be impossible to get a decent paying job since you are a felony ex-convict and cannot drive to/from one.
Then you have the guilt and problems one has in their head about their crime as well as the shame and hurt upon their family and their friends. That is sentence for life too.
I also think there should be jail time (like 6 months to a year) for where people are crippled or seriously injured in a DWI accident.
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:03 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 17):



Quoting Queso (Reply 18):

Well, without quoting your comments directly, I do agree, to a point. But reality is that some people don't take such precautions. While I do condemn such actions, I know it happens, and it's hard to give someone a murder charge if they are completely lacking understanding of what they are doing, even if they are doing it.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Queso
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:15 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 20):
it's hard to give someone a murder charge if they are completely lacking understanding of what they are doing, even if they are doing it.

And I see your point, too. The problem here is that people don't even think about the consequences of their actions before they start drinking, or they have a "it can't happen to me" attitude. If they are made aware that driving while intoxicated will cause the entirety of their future to be spent in jail maybe they will more carefully consider their actions.

It all comes down to responsibility and being held accountable for one's actions.
 
TedTAce
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:29 pm

I say it's murder. Take a life by being an any means other then defending your own and you deserve to loose yours.
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CastleIsland
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:39 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 22):
I say it's murder. Take a life by being an any means other then defending your own and you deserve to loose yours.

Ted, I understand, but you've not read my earlier posts.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
TedTAce
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:50 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 23):
but you've not read my earlier posts.

Nope, If I had time for, or wanted to debate this I would have copied parts of everyone's quotes and reacted to each of them like in the days I could post from work. I'm sure you make reasonable points, but I am a big fan of personal responsibility. Alcohol is a copout to being responsibile.
This space intentionally left blank
 
IAH777
Topic Author
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:30 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 13):
There has been recent evidence that cell phones drivers are more dangerous then drunk drivers.

I agree. Not everyone drinks and even fewer drink and drive. But I don't know a single person who won't answer a call while driving. I bought a Bluetooth earpiece just so I could keep two hands on the wheel. I don't believe concentration is an issue, as I'm always being chastised by my wife for not paying attention to her.  Wink

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
You can hang up a cell phone or ignore the person on the other end.

Try getting a zillion teeny-boppers to do either.
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:46 pm

Quoting IAH777 (Thread starter):
Manslaughter is causing a death recklessly or knowing that one's actions could cause death.

Personally, I don't like that definition. I believe it should read "an action that unknowingly could cause death", or something to that effect - for example, if I'm chopping down a tree in my backyard, and nobody is hardly ever around, and the tree falls on and kills a guy out of my sight who's just out enjoying the fresh air, then that would be manslaughter. "Knowing that one's actions could cause death" may not be directly intentional towards causing loss of life, but if one knows that his/her actions could cause death, he/she should make every effort/intention to avoid such actions, i.e. driving while drunk. Regardless, any such knowledge that life can be taken means culpability.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 1):
I also believe that a murder charge is appropriate.

        

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 22):
I say it's murder. Take a life by being an any means other then defending your own and you deserve to loose yours.

Again   

Edited for spelling.

-R

[Edited 2007-01-20 05:47:06]
Living the American Dream
 
IAH777
Topic Author
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:55 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 26):
example, if I'm chopping down a tree in my backyard, and nobody is hardly ever around, and the tree falls on and kills a guy out of my sight who's just out enjoying the fresh air, then that would be manslaughter

This is where the Grand Jury comes into play. I can see a "no bill" in this case, as - like you described - no one is typically around.

If a tree falls in the woods and smushes some poor sap and no one else is around to see it, can you just bury the body and hope no one knew where he went for a hike?  scratchchin 
 
vikkyvik
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:48 pm

Quoting Queso (Reply 18):
I think the crime starts long before that though. When one orders the first drink with car keys in their pocket, they are potentially in a position equivilant to planning an assault or murder. Everything that happens after that point can be prevented by simply surrendering the keys before the first drink, when one is "of sound mind". Not doing so can be looked upon as "intent".

I still only see "intent to drive" there, and not "intent to kill."

Quoting Queso (Reply 21):
If they are made aware that driving while intoxicated will cause the entirety of their future to be spent in jail maybe they will more carefully consider their actions.

I would like to think that that would be the case. However, being young and stupid not so long ago, I think that in these situations, the consequences, should something go wrong, are not the primary thought in one's mind. Instead, one is focused on the idea that nothing will go wrong, and therefore, there will be no consequences with which to deal.

But hey, I'd love to be proven wrong about that.

Another little point: If killing someone while drunk driving is equivalent to a murder charge, then shouldn't a DUI be equivalent to attempted murder? After all, the intent is there, and the action was carried out.

~Vik
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 19):
Typically, a DWI based manslaughter conviction is a Felony in the USA with a sentence is 2 to 4 years, where at least one person is killed, with much longer sentences where multiple persons are killed or in some states for severe drunk driving above .15 BAC

I'm sure that it changes from state to state but I've met three people who were sentenced to DWI manslaughter and one had a sentence of 7 years, one 10 years, and one 15.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
Dougloid
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:36 pm

To tell you the truth, fellows, I just flat ass don't make a habit of drinking any more. For all the good it does one, I've got no use for it at all any more, and I had more than my share. My mom made a career of it and she's got thirty years where she doesn't really have any idea what happened around her.

My experiences as a prosecutor and as a defense attorney have just confirmed that view in my mind...I have not yet seen any good come of it and I'm 58 years old. I'm also a freethinker and I'm not agin substance abuse on a religious basis or a moral basis....I just think it's stupid and destructive and it kills people and gets them into compromising circumstances. I also think that maybe Carrie Nation and the Anti Saloon League were not far from being 100 per cent right about it too, at least the destructive nature inherent in the pursuit.

Anyway, you have to make a real commitment to be a drunk, because if you want to be a drunk you'll never be good at anything else...it is an all or nothing kind of hobby. I don't have that much time in my life.

Nowadays I wake up in the morning with a clear head, I know where I am, I don't smell too bad, and I know who's in the sack with me, what I did with them, and I also know they're clean. I can remember what I did the preceding evening. My face is not on a close and personal basis with the porcelain god any more...

As for the people who get smashed and get in their cars and then go and hurt other people, fuck 'em where they breathe....there was one not ten blocks from here a few years ago. A nineteen year old girl who was alreadya drunk had been drinking in her favorite watering hole where they'd serve her....gets into her car, tears off down the street, goes up on the curb and runs over and kills a 5 year old girl right in front of her appalled father.....and then wanders off down the street bouncing off of parked cars...

life is good.....
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
767Lover
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RE: Death By D.W.I.: Intox Manslaughter Or Murder?

Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:21 pm

Went out for dinner this evening and had 2 glasses of wine over the course of almost 3 hours. Hardly a drink-fest or a rowdy night of partying. Just food paired with a nice wine.

Yet tonight the wine really affected me. I was silly and giggly in the on the way home (as a passenger)---not at all incoherent or mechanically impaired, but "mentally light."

And that's the insidious thing about alcohol. It can hit you in different ways depending on a lot of factors. Sometimes a seemingly small quantity can have a greater effect than normal.

It's probably safe to assume that on any given day this is a scenario played out by many on this board. We're all playing with fire.

As long as alcohol continues to be available and we partake, the risk will be there.

Barring abstinence, this may be the best solution yet:

Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 2):
I do believe that road vehicles need some sort of breath-analyzer lock that will only allow below limit operators to drive.

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