unoflygirl
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:48 am

Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:39 am

Okay, so I was at work this morning (I work at a small local coffeeshop chain for those who may not know) and I was talking with the other girls who work there. In one of our conversations we started discussing Starbucks. I guess one of the girls I work with had recieved an email from her brother who is fighting the war in Iraq right now. The email was about how the US Military had written a letter to the Starbucks Headquarters asking if it would be possible to have their coffee sent over to Iraq for the troops. The troops over there had requested to get "good" coffee, instead of the crap that the military was providing for them.

The email later went on to say that Starbucks had refused to support the war in Iraq and would therefore not have any part in supplying the troops with their brand coffee. According to this email, the military was going to pay for the coffee, so it wasn't like they were expecting to get it for free.

My question to everyone is: Was this email true? Has anyone heard any truth behind this? If it is true, then I think we should all boycott Starbucks for not supporting our hard-working troops who are over there fighting (and dying) for their country!

Karly
"I'm not anxious to die...just anxious to matter"
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:44 am

If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:44 am

FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
User avatar
KaiGywer
Crew
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:45 am

 rotfl 

Seeing as 3 of us found the link within a minute, I'll just remove mine  Smile

[Edited 2007-01-24 18:45:39]
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
unoflygirl
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:48 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:47 am

Thanks for the clarification. I had thought that it might have been a myth since it would be terrible for their business if such a thing had actually happend.
"I'm not anxious to die...just anxious to matter"
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:49 am

OK, so it isn't true.

But it does raise a general question: Why would anyone expect a company (any company, not necessarily this one) to be "patriotic"? It's a company, not an extension of government. It's job is to create value for shareholders, not uphold a national ideal. If doing so creates that value for shareholders, so be it, but the idea of a company as a national champion is very, um....dare I day it...French.  Confused
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
skyservice_330
Posts: 1302
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2000 6:50 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:53 am

Kind of related, so I thought it might be worth sharing:
______

Tim Hortons gives Afghan troops taste of home

Updated Thu. Jun. 29 2006 11:34 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Canadian troops in Afghanistan are now indulging in the sweet taste of home thanks to Tim Horton's latest endeavour in Kandahar.

From the moment staff at the iconic Canadian coffee and doughnut chain poured their first double-double on Thursday, word of the "Tims" opening at the sprawling coalition base in Kandahar spread like wildfire.

From:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...an_template_060610?s_name=&no_ads=
______

More at:
http://www.timhortons.com/en/news/news_archive_2006b.html
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/LF/English/6_1_1.asp?id=1153
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2006/05/05/timhortons-afghan060505.html
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:56 am

While the Starbucks story (as circulated) was false, I'm surprised I haven't seen this on Non-Av yet:

Quote:
MILWAUKEE — An American GI in Iraq who e-mailed a Wisconsin company to ask for a shipment of some floor mats got a brusque reply: "We would NEVER ship to Iraq. If you were sensible, you and your troops would pull out of Iraq."

Full story here: Anti-war e-mail leads to threats; worker fired
Alls well that ends well, but the stupidity of some workers never ceases to amaze me!
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
unoflygirl
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:48 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 5):

Okay, so Starbucks is a company, and companies exist to make money, big deal. However, don't you think that an American company should support the American people? Most people don't support the war itself, but no one should be unsupportive of the people who have no say in whether or not our country goes to war and yet are stuck fighting in it. That is what I meant by "patriotic".
"I'm not anxious to die...just anxious to matter"
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting Unoflygirl (Reply 8):
However, don't you think that an American company should support the American people? Most people don't support the war itself, but no one should be unsupportive of the people who have no say in whether or not our country goes to war and yet are stuck fighting in it. That is what I meant by "patriotic".

Um. No, not really. Although an American (or any other) company that doesn't do so will doubtless find itself on the end of some negative publicity, and so to that extent being "patriotic" (whatever that might mean) may well be something that is necessary for their business.

But a company isn't there to bolster a political viewpoint, except inasmuch as to ensure its own prosperity.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 7):

Appears that story deals more with the position of an employee rather than the position of the company.

Speaking "for the company" without the authority to do so is not smart.

Quoting Unoflygirl (Reply 8):
That is what I meant by "patriotic".

Patriotism takes many forms. As we've discussed here on numerous occasions.

Perhaps Company "X" feels it's being patriotic in not supporting the war, as it's their right and patriotic duty to protest or disagree with their gov't if they desire. I support that theory.

I of course would never buy another thing from Company "X" if they also failed to support the troops . . . but therein lies a different angle.

I maintain you can be against the war - and many are. But you can also - at the same time - support the troops. And most do.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
unoflygirl
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:48 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:04 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 9):
But a company isn't there to bolster a political viewpoint, except inasmuch as to ensure its own prosperity.

It has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with supporting your own people. If a member of your family does something that you may not agree with, they're still your family and you should support them. It's the same sort of thing in this situation.
"I'm not anxious to die...just anxious to matter"
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:05 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
But you can also - at the same time - support the troops. And most do.

The same distinction is made here, as well.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
andz
Posts: 7627
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 5):
But it does raise a general question: Why would anyone expect a company (any company, not necessarily this one) to be "patriotic"? It's a company, not an extension of government. It's job is to create value for shareholders, not uphold a national ideal.

And siding with any ideology could be dangerous for business when you are represented globally.

Quoting Unoflygirl (Reply 8):
However, don't you think that an American company should support the American people?

Starbucks stopped being an "American" company when they decided to go international.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
unoflygirl
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:48 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
I maintain you can be against the war - and many are. But you can also - at the same time - support the troops. And most do.

That is exactly what I'm trying to say. I don't agree with the war, however, I support the men and women who are there everyday fighting this war 100%. I just think that a company could do the same thing.
"I'm not anxious to die...just anxious to matter"
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting Unoflygirl (Reply 11):
If a member of your family does something that you may not agree with, they're still your family and you should support them.

 redflag  Absolutely not.

You should qualify "may not agree with". Crappy Example: My silly-assed halfwit brother failed to vote in the last Presidential election. I certainly don't agree with that and with his reason and I don't - by any stretch - support him there.

Just because they're family doesn't make them right. Lets qualify the infraction before we decide whether they get the support of the boot.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting Andz (Reply 13):
And siding with any ideology could be dangerous for business when you are represented globally.

Dammit! I meant to make that very point and forgot. Oh, well, you beat me to it.  Wink

But yes, if a company were to strongly identify with the US in Iraq, it might damage their business elsewhere. To take obvious examples, companies like Coca-Cola or McDonalds would be pursuing a very dangerous course if they did that.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
IFEMaster
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting Unoflygirl (Reply 8):

Okay, so Starbucks is a company, and companies exist to make money, big deal. However, don't you think that an American company should support the American people? Most people don't support the war itself, but no one should be unsupportive of the people who have no say in whether or not our country goes to war and yet are stuck fighting in it. That is what I meant by "patriotic".

I don't think an American company really has an obligation to be patriotic (especially in the case of Starbucks who are more of a global company than specifically an American company), however, having an inside contact with Starbucks (my wife, who is a project manager with them), I can tell you that actually they HAVE done things to support the troops (note, the troops, not the war), including sending 50,000 pounds of whole bean Arabian coffee and arranging for surprise reunions between families of employees and customers who have husbands/wives/sons/daughters/brothers/sisters serving in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The issue is, as Banco so eloquently put it...

Quoting Banco (Reply 9):
a company isn't there to bolster a political viewpoint

If Starbucks were to officially support in a patriotic way that was completely pro-American, they would lose business in the countries where they have operations that either oppose the war or or at best indifferent to the war. In fact, I applaud Howard Schultz for his determined refusal to let his personal believes (a devout Zionist) to affect the direction of the company.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
rammstein
Posts: 697
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:05 pm

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting Unoflygirl (Thread starter):
US Military had written a letter to the Starbucks Headquarters asking if it would be possible to get "good" coffee,

 rotfl 

Sorry, but I couldn't resist  Smile

P.S. This means that the "military coffee" is really made from junk...
He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
unoflygirl
Posts: 134
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:48 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
Absolutely not.

You should qualify "may not agree with". Crappy Example: My silly-assed halfwit brother failed to vote in the last Presidential election. I certainly don't agree with that and with his reason and I don't - by any stretch - support him there.

I don't mean that you have to agree with the decision, but support them as a person and acknowledge the choice they have made as something they agree with.

Quoting Andz (Reply 13):
Starbucks stopped being an "American" company when they decided to go international.

Okay, point taken. However, when you see Starbucks or McDonalds, don't you think of America. These two companies are almost icons of America, even though they are recognized and consumed all over the globe.

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 17):
I can tell you that actually they HAVE done things to support the troops (note, the troops, not the war)

I know that now, I admit that I didn't have all the facts before mentioning the hearsay I heard at work.
"I'm not anxious to die...just anxious to matter"
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 18):
P.S. This means that the "military coffee" is really made from junk...

 yes  having endured numerous cups of "military" coffee, I assure you, it's not the best. No matter whether it was boiled (usually in my helmet right before I shaved), or perked, or drip brewed. It's still Military Issue coffee.

Quoting Unoflygirl (Reply 19):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
Absolutely not.

You should qualify "may not agree with". Crappy Example: My silly-assed halfwit brother failed to vote in the last Presidential election. I certainly don't agree with that and with his reason and I don't - by any stretch - support him there.

I don't mean that you have to agree with the decision, but support them as a person and acknowledge the choice they have made as something they agree with.

We disagree here. Supporting them as a person, well okay. I don't give support to anyone, family or otherwise, just because I they've made a decision they agree with. I certainly don't support the guy that smacks his wife around because he thought it the right thing to do. I didn't and won't support any person in my family that fails to vote because they thought it - in their own mind - the right thing to do. Such support is earned, not given away - rather like respect.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
I didn't and won't support any person in my family that fails to vote

Ha! you should have seen the rant I went on towards people that didn't vote in our last general election. You'd have enjoyed it.  Wink
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
174thfwff
Posts: 2831
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 12:47 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:40 am

"On Sept. 21, 2006, Starbucks was honored with the Freedom Award during a ceremony in Washington, D.C. The Freedom Award, the highest award bestowed by the Department of Defense in recognition of an employer, was created in 1996 by President Bill Clinton and Secretary of Defense William Perry to publicly recognize American employers who provide exceptional support to their employees who voluntarily serve the nation in the National Guard and Reserve....

To enhance our U.S. partners’ (employees) efforts in support of U.S. military troops, Starbucks is honored to extend our relationship with the American Red Cross in order to provide more coffee to relief efforts during times of conflict. On multiple occasions, Starbucks has donated a total of more than 100,000 lbs of coffee to the American Red Cross for distribution to those troops serving in Afghanistan, Iraq and Kuwait."

http://www.starbucks.com/aboutus/pressdesc.asp?id=684&rumor=true

Well, there you go. More then 100,000 LBS of coffee were donated thus far... What has your company done for those fighting in Iraq? Doesn't matter if your company is just you making coffee out of your kitchen and selling it out of the back of a 1992 Chrysler MiniVan or a 100,000 person strong corporation...

[Edited 2007-01-24 19:42:14]
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:47 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 5):
But it does raise a general question: Why would anyone expect a company (any company, not necessarily this one) to be "patriotic"? It's a company, not an extension of government. It's job is to create value for shareholders, not uphold a national ideal. If doing so creates that value for shareholders, so be it, but the idea of a company as a national champion is very, um....dare I day it...French

That's because it is good for business, m'dear fellow. Great publicity for a few cups of coffee.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
andz
Posts: 7627
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:49 pm

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:47 am

Quoting Unoflygirl (Reply 19):
However, when you see Starbucks or McDonalds, don't you think of America

Karly I agree with you there.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 23):
That's because it is good for business, m'dear fellow. Great publicity for a few cups of coffee.

In the US, certainly. That's the rocky path global companies must travel. Identifying themselves too closely with their country of origin may not go down too well overseas.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6672
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:00 am

Guys, we live in a free market society. Corporations are judged by the market and its participants. If some corporate entity chose to publically disavow support for the troops or the war in general, it is up to its customers to determine its fate, not the government.

The opposite is also true, i.e. public support of the war.

Now, multi-nationals need to tread a fine line...
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
BigOrange
Posts: 2291
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 2:20 am

RE: Starbucks, Anti-patriotic?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 7):
Full story here: Anti-war e-mail leads to threats; worker fired
Alls well that ends well, but the stupidity of some workers never ceases to amaze me!



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
Appears that story deals more with the position of an employee rather than the position of the company.

An update on this story on Fox News is that the company is run from the owner's home who is of Pakistani descent and so far no proof has been found or provided that there were any other employees at the company.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, BaBaby, photopilot, Tugger and 7 guests