andessmf
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Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:41 pm

This is an actual AP headline

U.S., Iraqi troops clash in Baghdad

Think about what it implies.

Then read the article:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070124/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq
 
Mir
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:48 pm

I don't know if I'd call it biased - it's just plain bad.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
DL787932ER
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:49 pm

The media, by and large, are idiots. Or, to be kinder, they care much more about getting ratings and stirring up support for their positions than making an effort to calmly report facts in an accurate, unbiased, and thorough manner. For those here who are presumably knowledgeable about aviation, you can reference almost any aviation-related article in the mainstream media to reinforce this point.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
corey07850
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:50 pm

I don't see any other point of this post other than flamebait
 
T773ER
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:53 pm

Do you even need to ask, we are dealing with the AP, that's all that needs to be said.
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
 
andessmf
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:54 pm

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 3):
I don't see any other point of this post other than flamebait

Why flamebait?

Is the headline not implying something that did not occur?
 
stlgph
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:05 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Thread starter):
This is an actual AP headline

U.S., Iraqi troops clash in Baghdad

Think about what it implies.

Associated Press articles/newsbit are topical. The topicals are in the first paragraph or the second.

Then the following is related action pertaining to the story.

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 2):
The media, by and large, are idiots.

Yeah. We're all idiots. That's real brilliant. I notice you certainly don't list your occupation.

Quoting T773ER (Reply 4):
Do you even need to ask, we are dealing with the AP, that's all that needs to be said.

If it weren't for the Associated Press, we'd all be without 99% of our total news content.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
T773ER
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 6):
If it weren't for the Associated Press, we'd all be without 99% of our total news content.

I get my news from America's real Anchor man, that way I don't become a libtard by reading AP.
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
 
andessmf
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:13 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 6):
Associated Press articles/newsbit are topical. The topicals are in the first paragraph or the second.

Then the following is related action pertaining to the story.

Still could have been written better.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 6):
We're all idiots.

Not all, just some...

 duck 
 
stlgph
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:13 pm

Quoting T773ER (Reply 7):
I get my news from America's real Anchor man, that way I don't become a libtard by reading AP.

i see and who is America's *REAL* anchor man?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
stlgph
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:14 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 8):
Still could have been written better.

..

one more time --

Associated Press articles/newsbit are topical. The topicals are in the first paragraph or the second.

Then the following is related action pertaining to the story.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
T773ER
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 9):
i see and who is America's *REAL* anchor man?

The King of Talk Radio!
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
 
DL787932ER
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 6):
Yeah. We're all idiots. That's real brilliant.

Out of my 65-word post, you seem only to have read the first, second, sixth, and seventh words, and from them drawn a conclusion. Why is that okay?

More relevantly, the headline was:

U.S., Iraqi troops clash in Baghdad

What does that headline imply to you? Does that implication correctly match the content of the article? If not, what conclusions remain other than that the author either has a poor grasp of English grammar and syntax or that the author was intentionally trying to mislead, for whatever purpose?
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stlgph
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting T773ER (Reply 11):
The King of Talk Radio!

Howard Stern?

yay.

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 12):
Out of my 65-word post, you seem only to have read the first, second, sixth, and seventh words, and from them drawn a conclusion. Why is that okay?

because you're obviously not worth giving a lot of attention to.

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 12):
U.S., Iraqi troops clash in Baghdad

mmhmmm...

and...

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 12):

What does that headline imply to you?

now let's read the article

one more time --

Associated Press articles/newsbit are topical. The topicals are in the first paragraph or the second.

Then the following is related action pertaining to the story.


let's read the article, shall we

BAGHDAD, Iraq - U.S. and Iraqi troops battled Sunni insurgents hiding in high-rise buildings on Haifa Street in the heart of Baghdad Wednesday, with snipers on roofs taking aim at gunmen in open windows as Apache attack helicopters hovered overhead.
ADVERTISEMENT

Iraq said 30 militants were killed and 27 captured.


let's see

Sunni's in Baghdad

Baghdad is in Iraq

Sunni's are Iraqi's


and again...

one more time --

Associated Press articles/newsbit are topical. The topicals are in the first paragraph or the second.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
T773ER
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:21 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 13):
Howard Stern?

yay.



Quoting STLGph (Reply 13):
The King of Talk Radio!

Howard Stern?

yay.

You can only wish.
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
 
stlgph
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:22 pm

Quoting T773ER (Reply 14):
You can only wish.

well tell us then, oh wise one...
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
T773ER
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:26 pm

I didn't think I'd have to spell it out as much as I have, but he is none other than RUSH LIMBAUGH! The man who ties half his brain behind his back just to make it fair.

20 million listerners a week, that's truly amazing!
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
 
andessmf
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:27 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 13):
U.S., Iraqi troops clash in Baghdad

...
...
...

It wouldn't kill you to admit that the headline was not a good one, would it?
 
stlgph
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:28 pm

Quoting T773ER (Reply 16):
I didn't think I'd have to spell it out as much as I have, but he is none other than RUSH LIMBAUGH! The man who ties half his brain behind his back just to make it fair.

20 million listerners a week, that's truly amazing!

Oh trust me ... most of us are listening for the entertainment value. And laugh we do!

And yes, Rush leads the Associated Press. When I pay a bit of attention I can identify quite nicely what stories in specific he has taken and skewed around off of the National Wires and from the NNS Scripts.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
T773ER
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:30 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 18):
When I pay a bit of attention I can identify quite nicely what stories in specific he has taken and skewed around off of the National Wires and from the NNS Scripts.

So you new who America's Real Anchor Man was all along, I have to admitt you had me fooled.
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
 
searpqx
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:32 pm

Quoting Corey07850 (Reply 3):
I don't see any other point of this post other than flamebait

Why flamebait? The first thing I thought was when I saw the headline earlier today was, 'well so much for working together'. The headline, by its composition definitely leads one to think the clash was between the US & Iraq troops, NOT that the US & Iraqi troops were in a clash with insurgents, as the article very clearly states. Would I call that biased, not necessarily, but if nothing else, it certainly could have been reworded to be clearer.

But as STLGPh will be sure to point out, Associated Press articles/newsbit are topical. The topicals are in the first paragraph or the second . . . .  Wink
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
stlgph
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:33 pm

Quoting T773ER (Reply 19):
So you new who America's Real Anchor Man was all along, I have to admitt you had me fooled.

It's my job to know as many people in the business as possible and what they're about.

All the way from good ole Blaire Martin (anchor at KULR in Billings) to Sandra Hughes (CBS Correspondent -- L.A.) and beyond.

i even know a good majority of the news people in Lincoln.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
T773ER
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:37 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 21):
i even know a good majority of the news people in Lincoln.

So who in your opinion is the best, that way I'll know not to watch them  Smile

I personally like Rod Fowler, but that's just me.
"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of man."
 
DL787932ER
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:37 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 13):
because you're obviously not worth giving a lot of attention to.

Aww. Did I hurt your feelings?

Tough. It's an honorable goal to want to defend your profession, but part of that goal is not making excuses when one of your fellow journalists makes a mistake. Instead, you seem to want to ignore the issue and take your frustration out on other posters here. That reaction doesn't present you or other journalists in a better light.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 13):

now let's read the article

No, let's not. Let's pay attention to the point. The headline of the article is:

U.S., Iraqi troops clash in Baghdad

The clear implication, since no other forces are mentioned, is that only U.S. and Iraqi troops are clashing. Since you can't "clash" on the same side, the obvious conclusion is that U.S. troops are fighting against Iraqi troops.

However, the article, in its entirety, discusses U.S. and Iraqi troops fighting on the same side against insurgents. This article does not discuss the situation connoted by the headline. The article does not contradict itself; the headline contradicts the article.

Now, please try to focus and stay on topic. We are not discussing whether the first two paragraphs of the article conform to the remainder of the article. We are discussing whether the headline conforms to the article in its entirety. Does it, or does it not? If not, what is a reasonable explanation for the discongruity?
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
stlgph
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:43 pm

Quoting T773ER (Reply 22):
I personally like Rod Fowler, but that's just me.

he works for my company ;p

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 23):
Aww. Did I hurt your feelings?

sorry -- the only person to ever hurt my feelings was Andrew Schillings

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 23):
Tough. It's an honorable goal to want to defend your profession, but part of that goal is not making excuses when one of your fellow journalists makes a mistake. Instead, you seem to want to ignore the issue and take your frustration out on other posters here. That reaction doesn't present you or other journalists in a better light.

zzzzzzzzzzz

i'm telling you how AP copy works.

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 23):
The clear implication, since no other forces are mentioned, is that only U.S. and Iraqi troops are clashing. Since you can't "clash" on the same side, the obvious conclusion is that U.S. troops are fighting against Iraqi troops.

how about a Geography lesson *again*

(oh, and see the thread about using your college degree and you'll see i have a background in this)

since Sunni's don't have their own country ... they are Iraqi's ... and they are Iraqi troops.

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 23):
Now, please try to focus and stay on topic. We are not discussing whether the first two paragraphs of the article conform to the remainder of the article. We are discussing whether the headline conforms to the article in its entirety. Does it, or does it not? If not, what is a reasonable explanation for the discongruity?

more zzzz's

i've spelled this out for you twice now. if you miss it any more, call Annie Sullivan.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
andessmf
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:50 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 24):
since Sunni's don't have their own country ... they are Iraqi's ... and they are Iraqi troops.

This is the first sentence of the story:

"U.S. and Iraqi troops battled Sunni insurgents..."

You might twist the meaning a bit, but AP is not calling the Sunnis 'troops', but 'insurgents'.
 
stlgph
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:53 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 25):
This is the first sentence of the story:

"U.S. and Iraqi troops battled Sunni insurgents..."

You might twist the meaning a bit, but AP is not calling the Sunnis 'troops', but 'insurgents'.

it's an every day thing. the headline is broad. the lead in becomes specific.

this is part of a process called the Inverted Pyramid style of writing.

here are some examples

#1
Sample Headline -- MORE WOMEN GRADUATING TOPS OF CLASS

Lead In -- A recent survey says more Asian women are graduating at the top of their class than ever before.

#2
Sample Headline -- LOCAL SERVICEMAN KILLED IN BOSNIA

Lead In -- Lance Corporal Harry Wang, 20, of Johnston


#3
Sample Headline -- ANIMALS BECOMING A NUISANCE

Lead In -- Pigs that are being kept as pets at a Chauncey Hill home ...
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
andessmf
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:57 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 26):

I understand.

But many years ago I realized that the headline of the story did not necessarily represent the essence of the story. Therefore, I always read a story from top to bottom.

But how many people actually do this?

This style of headline writing does a great disservice to the reading public.
 
stlgph
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:01 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 27):

Copying and pasting an AP article usually is a bad thing ... not for the AP ... but for the source ... this time being Yahoo news.

It just goes to show that whoever is working there at the time was just very lazy, or probably running behind on a deadline and needed a filler.

If you go pick up your newspaper and read a big article from there ... top to bottom ... you will see the inverted pyramid at work.

It is usually a standard to avoid cutting gender-race-location-specifics as much as possible in headlines.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
andessmf
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 28):
Copying and pasting an AP article usually is a bad thing ... not for the AP ... but for the source ... this time being Yahoo news.

Maybe I have not understood the process where and how an AP report would get to Yahoo.
 
stlgph
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:17 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 29):
Maybe I have not understood the process where and how an AP report would get to Yahoo.

it came through the wire service

person selected text, hit copy and paste and plugged it right on the web page.

AP articles are never written very well. they are pretty much stacked in consecutive order of events. that's just easier for news people like me to follow along on a timeline basis.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
DL787932ER
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:24 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 24):

i'm telling you how AP copy works.

Yes, repeatedly. You're also completely failing to realize that the problem isn't with the copy, it's with the headline. How can I possibly make that fact more clear to you?

To use your own example:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 26):
this is part of a process called the Inverted Pyramid style of writing.

here are some examples

#1
Sample Headline -- MORE WOMEN GRADUATING TOPS OF CLASS

Lead In -- A recent survey says more Asian women are graduating at the top of their class than ever before.

That analogy fails. A more appropriate analogy would be:

Sample headline: MORE WOMEN GRADUATING TOPS OF CLASS

Lead-in: A recent survey says more Asian women are graduating at the top of their class than Caucasian or Hispanic women.

Now, that first sentence may be the "topical" and the rest of the article may fully support the statement made in the first sentence. But - this is the important part, so try to pay attention - the headline does not match the article's topic.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 24):
since Sunni's don't have their own country ... they are Iraqi's ... and they are Iraqi troops.

 banghead  banghead  banghead 

Are the Sunnis members of the Iraqi army? Do they wear Iraqi army uniforms? Do they report to the Iraqi army command structure? If not, they are not Iraqi troops, as the very article in discussion acknowledges when it refers to them as Sunni insurgents battling Iraqi troops.

Excusing poor writing by finding some contorted definition of a given word that fits the context should not be the goal. The idea is to write clearly and concisely so that the reader does not have to puzzle out whether, for example, "Iraqi troops" refers to the troops of Iraq or the insurgents fighting those troops who happen to be Iraqi.

I'm not going to spend any more time instructing you in English grammar and syntax. If you are an American journalist, you should already be an expert in those categories. If you wish to continue to discuss this subject, you should admit that the headline does not accurately represent the context of the article, and discuss why that might be. Further explanations of how the first paragraph or two cover the overall topics and the rest of the article fills in the details are unhelpful and irrelevant, since they ignore the fact that the headline, and not the article itself, is the problem. The headline needs to accurately portray the contents of the article. This headline does not. Would you like to discuss that topic?
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
stlgph
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:35 pm

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 31):

that's lovely you want to try to be some type of persistant in getting your point across ... i hope you are this way when getting the folks at Nordstrom to hold stuff for you MONTHS before the half yearly sale ... but however ...

as shown in #24 ... i have an understanding of political geography ... and journalistic style of writing. i do it on a daily basis. i've made a career out of it for ten years.

everything in #24 stands against anything else you have to say or think you know. i am right and you are wrong.

go ahead and respond in whatever manner you want to, it'll just be ignored, .... and you'll still be incorrect.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:42 pm

Just goes to show copy editing isn't what it used to be. More evidence of the continued erosion of the English language. It's a terrible headline by anyone's accounting.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
DL787932ER
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 2:57 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 32):

Since your irrelevant and poorly written responses to my questions added nothing whatsoever to the conversation, I conclude that further "discussion" with you is futile. I'll leave it to other posters and lurkers to decide for themselves which of us understood, discussed, and debated the topic more coherently. Good evening, sir.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
andessmf
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 32):
and you'll still be incorrect.

STL, you are the only one right now defending this journalistic headline writing. If you can't defend it, ignore it. But regardless of anything you say, this is a piss poor and misleading way of writing a headline.

By the way, you know I am right, you are left.
 
Mir
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RE: Why Is This Headline So Biased?

Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

Quoting T773ER (Reply 16):
20 million listerners a week, that's truly amazing!

Many of whom would probably spell "listeners" the way you did. I'm not sure that's something to be proud of.  Yeah sure

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day

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