9V
Topic Author
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:23 am

Today a man who downloaded child pornography to his computer has avoided jail after the home secretary asked judges to limit prison terms due to overcrowding.

BBC News

Courts have been asked to jail only the most dangerous and persistent criminals as the number of inmates in England and Wales hovers around the jail capacity of 80,000.

Will a limit on prison sentencing help solve overcrowding crisis?
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:28 am

I remember when I was working some county jails wouldn't accept individuals that I arrested due to overcrowding. Short of rape or murder they weren't going to get booked.

Quoting 9V (Thread starter):
Today a man who downloaded child pornography to his computer

In our courts here in Maricopa County, Arizona, one can receive up to ten years for each picture, so if you have five pictures = 50 years vs. sexually assaulted someone one could get 5-8 years. Now which one presents a greater danger to the community?
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:10 am

Back in the 1980s, overcrowding in the Tennessee Department of Corrections was so bad that they had a federally mandated population cap. The solution (albeit an expensive one) was to house lower level offenders in county jails and reimburse the counties for the incurred expenses until space could be made available (if possible) in the DOC. This was very expensive for the counties as they had to provide for law library access to the state inmates.

Also, there is a cap on the length of a jail sentence here-11 months, 29 days. Any sentence greater than that requires a committment to the Department of Corrections/Bureau of Prisons. A prisoner may spend more than a year in jail awaiting their trial in a few rare cases, but post conviction they are supposed to transfer to the DOC/BOP as soon as possible to begin their sentences.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
speedbird747BA
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:47 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:18 am

Build more jails, I mean you cant have criminals running around just because there isnt enough room in the jail.

Cheers.
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 3):
Build more jails, I mean you cant have criminals running around just because there isnt enough room in the jail.

No, better crime prevention is what is required.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:23 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 3):
Build more jails, I mean you cant have criminals running around just because there isnt enough room in the jail.

That's usually gonna mean higher taxes for someone. You willing to fork up more for more jail cells?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:38 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 4):
No, better crime prevention is what is required.

I'd love to hear how this one is accomplished... without violating basic human rights, or fantasies about socialist states.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 2):
Back in the 1980s, overcrowding in the Tennessee Department of Corrections was so bad that they had a federally mandated population cap. The solution (albeit an expensive one) was to house lower level offenders in county jails and reimburse the counties for the incurred expenses until space could be made available (if possible) in the DOC. This was very expensive for the counties as they had to provide for law library access to the state inmates.

Change this from Tennessee to California in 2007. Article in the Jan 16th edition of the Sacramento Bee describes Gov. Schwarzenegger proposal to raise the minimum state prison term from one to three years..Of course the counties would have to absord the rest even with 20 out of the 58 counties in California already operating their jails under court-imposed population caps. Of course the judges would just hand down longer sentences.
 
speedbird747BA
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:47 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:48 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 4):
That's usually gonna mean higher taxes for someone. You willing to fork up more for more jail cells?

Hey, would I rather pay 1/2% more on my taxes and be safe, or keep that 1/2% and have child molesters and such running around free.? Ill pay.

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:49 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 3):
Build more jails, I mean you cant have criminals running around just because there isnt enough room in the jail.

In a 1996 study published by the California Research Bureau they studied the Michigan Correction System, daily cost of inmate in prison was $64.80 compared to regular probation cost of $3.00 per day. (That doesn't include the cost of building a prison. ) California has currently 173,000 inmates in the Department of Corrections, just do the math.

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 8):
and have child molesters and such running around free.?

If you have time, check out Maricopa County, Arizona's sex offender program. First rule most child molesters are family members or someone the victim knows really well. Take that rule, most child molesters if they plea guilty are given a 1 year jail term and then lifetime probation which for the rules are so strict, that doing anything beyond treatment, employment requires special permission. The recidivism rate is extemely low.
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:51 am

I don't believe that there should be a limit on the number of people who get sent to jail. The courts should determine the sentences based on the laws and precedent set in those similar cases. If a criminal is convicted and it is determined that incarceration is warranted then so be it.

Economics of the penal system should never trump the sentencing options available to the courts. Period.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:20 pm

That's like saying to the victim: "Sorry, we are too cheap for justice."
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
comorin
Posts: 3857
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:52 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:16 am

I think the idea of Iincarceration as both deterrence and punishment is pretty backward for crimes where you do not need to remove the individual from society. Britain had the problem of overcrowding a few centuries ago, and they just shipped them to Oz - problem solved instantly, a win-win all around!

I would humbly suggest the following:

White Collar Crimes - economic punishment, seizure of property and future income, disbarment from profession.
Violent Crimes - Barter of time in jail for banishment, organ donation.

At sentencing, criminals should be able to bargain thus:

1. Drug Dealing - say ten years or one finger.
2. Sex Crimes - barter time in jail for castration.
3. Capital Crime - loss of sight or limb in exchange for life imprisonment; or participation in high-risk medical or military projects.

Other bargainable items could be loss of citizenship (deportation) and/or dignity. There could be a secondary market for citizenship rights, just like with Taxicab medallions. We do need to have free markets in law enforcement too.

As for the Constitution, I think Life Imprisonment is cruel and inhumane compared to any of the above alternatives. While a few minor amendments to Citizenship rights will be required, it will help bring it in step with modern market economics.

We also needlessly inject middle-class values like Correction, Rehabilitation, and Penance into a situation that should be simpler. There are many creative alternatives to incarceration. In the end, you broke it, you bought it...

I'm hoping my point of view makes sense...
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:40 am

Well, I think our justice system does seem a bit of a joke sometimes, however, it's there to up hold the law. We can't simply turn away people because there isn't enough space, whether you've done something minor or major, you've broken the law, and so be punished respectively, if it means jail, it means jail, not jail 'if there's space free'.
The problem is, our country seems to have so many criminals !
IMHO, there are 2 solutions, build more prisons or improve our system which allows ll this re-education for criminals. Now, both have their ups and downs, but what some people don't get, is that the later doesn't work on everyone, and we can't simply allow pedophiles and rapists to run around, nor can we allow people getting off with less than they deserve.

Another thing is, people who commit minor crimes, are likely to go on and commit more serious crimes. We have to nip things in the bud, and unfortunately, prison is seen as a holiday camp for some people, the simple fact is, in this country, they don't really do anything to work off their time.
I am all for prisoners doing work like cleaning the streets or scrubbing off graffiti, hard, manual labour that gets them out of the jail house or even a basic form of military training (marching, discipline etc, but not using weapons) that install a bit of self worth and pride in-themselves, and actually work off some of their debt to society and makes prison seem less like a holiday camp.
There was a television program called Bad lads army (and there was another other versions of this program) in this country which basically sent criminals to boot camp (anyone who's watched it will know what I'm on about).
I believe this type of military 'boot camp' does good, all of them who made it to the end (which was all bar one or two) came out a better all round person.

The simple thing is, there is no easy solution which everyone will agree with, but one thing's for sure, we need to do something about the situation.

Quoting 9V (Thread starter):
Will a limit on prison sentencing help solve overcrowding crisis?

No, because this will only make the justice system weaker than it is, and this means some people who should go to jail go free.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 1):
Now which one presents a greater danger to the community?

In theory, it's the sexual assaulter, however, it's smaller less serious crimes and criminals, that build up to bigger more serious crimes. Most people who commit serious crimes, commit more minor offences before, and it's these who need to be nipped in the bud to prevent more serious crimes occuring.

wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
speedbird747BA
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:47 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:55 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 9):
Take that rule, most child molesters if they plea guilty are given a 1 year jail term and then lifetime probation which for the rules are so strict, that doing anything beyond treatment, employment requires special permission. The recidivism rate is extemely low.

So tell me, just out of curiosity, how do you know if this sex offender is doing. I mean, he/she may not have the permission to say, go play golf, but how would you actually know?

Quoting Comorin (Reply 12):
1. Drug Dealing - say ten years or one finger.
2. Sex Crimes - barter time in jail for castration.
3. Capital Crime - loss of sight or limb in exchange for life imprisonment; or participation in high-risk medical or military projects.

Excellent!!  bigthumbsup 


Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:04 am

Well, I've got a better idea and it will solve a number of problems.

Stay with me please ...

Step 1. Go to Afghanistan and offer to buy up the entire poppy crop for double the market rate. Benefit? Doesn't cost more than a couple (or 10) smart bombs, gets the Afhanis on our side. The Taliban will quickly see that there is a lot more money by beating their AK47s into plowshares. Afghanistan - Problem solved.

Step 2. Take all the poppies home (and maybe buy up some more from other sources) and refine them into clinical drugs. Benefit? More raw material off the market. More jobs for citizens preparing the end product. NHS (in UK) have access to quality products. In the US health costs could come down with access to cheaper drugs.

Step 3. GIVE (free, gratis, no charge) the refinded products to any addict that wants them (controlled conditions - they come in for their fix). Benefit? Druggies have no need to break the law to feed their habit. Drug dealers out of business (how can they compete with free). Incidence of new addiction lower (who's going to hook them). No dirty needles in the street. No HIV/Aids infection from dirty needles. Drugs are 'pure', no more deaths from over dose.

Result? Additcts out of jails, drug pushers out of business, and out of jails. You've probably cleared out 1/3 to 1/2 of the prison population. Lots of room now for remaining black hats.

What do you think?
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:17 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 15):
What do you think?

Nice Big grin Big grin
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
comorin
Posts: 3857
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:52 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 15):


It makes a lot of sense  thumbsup 

We can also solve the problem of Prostitution in a similar manner:

1. Legalize.
2. Go down the supply chain and buy in bulk from providers, cutting out the evil middleman.
3. Redistribute to those that either need it or are hooked on it - like shy single people, the elderly, and of course, a.netters...
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12425
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:30 am

In the USA, some reasons for overcrowding in the prisons include:
Excessive and disproportionate sentences for certain crimes, especially for drug related crimes, sex crimes, crimes against children. This is usually due to highly publicized cases pushing for longer sentences, and politicians paying attention to the voters seeing their votes.
'Three Strikes' laws, mandating long terms for some multiple offenders, even if the third strike wasn't a felony level crime, or a lesser felony and leading to a possibly unfair jail sentence term.
Ending of parole to shorten sentences for 'good beheavor', etc, and more sentences without parole.
Mandatory sentences or formulas, taking away the opportunity for Judges to determine a sentence. This happened as for the same crime and under the same circumstances, different Judges gave longer sentences than others, sometimes due to racism reasons. When judges can have some flexibility as to sentences, they may give one more appropriate to the crime, taking into account where a convicted defendant gave information to prosecutors that gets other criminals or the personal circumstances of the criminal.


The Federal and State governments need to review their criminal codes as to available sentences, to return some flexibility to judges, return the availability of parole in some non-violent and lesser drug charges, revision of 'three strike' sentences so the 2nd or 3rd strike penalty would be more proportional to the degree of crime committed. There should be more psychological and psychiatric examination, treatment and help for criminals, as they dispassionately they have much higher than average rates of such problems. We must return the educational programs as most prisoners had a poor education and help for learning disabilities, that prisoners may have also in higher than average %'s.
 
speedbird747BA
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:47 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 15):

Not a bad idea, but poppy aint that cheap.

From Article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070125/ap_on_re_as/afghan_drugs

"enough to make about 670 tons of heroin. That is more than 90 percent of the world's supply and more than the world's addicts consume in a year."

"of the 407,000 acres of poppies that were cultivated in 2006, including 173,000 acres in Helmand province alone, according to U.N. figures."

Thats a lot of poppy dude.

From Article: http://justiceanddrugs.blogspot.com/...01_01_justiceanddrugs_archive.html

"$90 per gram"


Now, using that price, and doing the necessary conversions, that much heroin would cost US taxpayers $54,703,239,822, or almost 55 billion (with a b) dollars, oh and that is PER YEAR, and it looks like ON AVERAGE the Afghan Poppy crop grows 50% (!!!!!!!) per year, meaning next year, it will cost us a 'bit' over 82 billion to keep up. Oh yeas, you wanted to buy at 2X market value. Meaing the figure is now:

$109,406,479,644

Thats a good bit over 109 billion dollars, allowing for the increase in crop for next yr, a bit over 164 Billion dollars.


Thats a lot of moolah baby, a whole lot.


Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:47 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 19):
"$90 per gram"

Those afghan poppy-farmers don't get paid $90 per gram. They'd be out of there by now if that's how much they made.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:52 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 14):

So tell me, just out of curiosity, how do you know if this sex offender is doing. I mean, he/she may not have the permission to say, go play golf, but how would you actually know?

The use of survelliance officers, they show up at anytime at the residence/work/school and you better be where you said you're going to be or someone is seeing a judge pronto.
 
speedbird747BA
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:47 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:03 am

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 20):
Those afghan poppy-farmers don't get paid $90 per gram. They'd be out of there by now if that's how much they made.

Jee-sus Christ.  spit   weeping   cry 

YOURE FREAKING RIGHT!!!!

WHICH MY ENTIRE POST IS GARBAGE!!!!! AHHH!!!!!

Now Ill have to re-calculate using how much they are paid by the ton of poppy, not by how much a seller on the streets of LA makes selling finished Heroin.

The price they are paid, it looks like is about (rough conservative avg from several sources) 200$/1000g

Meaning, that at 2X market price, it would cost us

Price wed be paying is a measly $243,125,510.3

243 million dollars. Pretty cheap, Ive gotta admit.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 21):
The use of survelliance officers, they show up at anytime at the residence/work/school and you better be where you said you're going to be or someone is seeing a judge pronto.

How often do they show up to check?

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
comorin
Posts: 3857
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:52 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:13 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 19):
Thats a lot of moolah baby, a whole lot.

I'm impressed by your analysis! you should be heading to B-school!

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 20):
Those afghan poppy-farmers don't get paid $90 per gram. They'd be out of there by now if that's how much they made.

Exactly.

The way to analyze this is:

1. Commodity price for raw Poppy extract/milk whatever.
2. Add logistics to get to the Opium Farmers Co-op Market.
3. Add cost of processing Opium to Starbucks-grade Heroin.

So all the above costs to be borne by taxpayer.

4. Sell Heroin to Distributor (Starbucks?, Drugstores?) at $5 per pop.

5. Distributor sells 'medicinal' heroin to final consumer at about $10 a pop (= pack of cigarettes).

Cost offset by above revenues to taxpayer. I think the whole program could be done for about $20B a year - less than our War on Drugs.

If we weren't so moralistic, everybody (except drug dealers) wins in the above scenario.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:37 am

Only problem is that then everyone will want to produce poppy. They would abandon growing whatever legal crops they now grow for the more profitable poppy.

The only real way is to legalize everything. No government intervention. Problem solved.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
comorin
Posts: 3857
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:52 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:23 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 22):
YOURE FREAKING RIGHT!!!!

WHICH MY ENTIRE POST IS GARBAGE!!!!! AHHH!!!!!

Take it easy, it's not like you CRASHED and BURNED!!!

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 24):

Hey, I'm really impressed with both of you  thumbsup . This is what you have to do:

1. Ditch Aviation as a career.
2. Get an MBA
3. Join a Private Equity shop
4. Buy VARIG along the way.
4. Buy your OWN G5 as a mere toy with your bonus at age 30.
5. Take Flying lessons.

The hard way is:

1. Proclaim your love for Flying
2. Work your way up the ladder flying other people for peanuts
3. Become Captain of aforementioned G5 when you turn 50.

Think about it...
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:34 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 22):

How often do they show up to check?

Could be a couple of times a day, to twice a month, its to keep them guessing. Then the offenders have to submit to a polygraph every six months, if they failed, then its house arrest, and if they still can't pass then its back to the judge. Activites are basically suspended from Halloween to New Years, can't be near a school, permission is required from both the probation department and church before they can attend services (very rarely does a church give permission to attend the regular Sunday service), can only shop during non-prime time hours, for instance if they went to Wal-Mart it would have to been after 9pm,and malls are a no-no. These are just some of the restrictions that sex offenders face in my county.
 
speedbird747BA
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:47 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:43 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 26):
Could be a couple of times a day, to twice a month, its to keep them guessing. Then the offenders have to submit to a polygraph every six months, if they failed, then its house arrest, and if they still can't pass then its back to the judge. Activites are basically suspended from Halloween to New Years, can't be near a school, permission is required from both the probation department and church before they can attend services (very rarely does a church give permission to attend the regular Sunday service), can only shop during non-prime time hours, for instance if they went to Wal-Mart it would have to been after 9pm,and malls are a no-no. These are just some of the restrictions that sex offenders face in my county.

Can they leave the county?

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:08 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 3):
Build more jails, I mean you cant have criminals running around just because there isnt enough room in the jail.

Do you know how much it costs to house a prisoner for a year?

Quoting AirCop (Reply 7):
Gov. Schwarzenegger proposal to raise the minimum state prison term from one to three years

Which is idiotic, given the piss poor state of the California prison system which has suffered through years of political graft by the prison guards union.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4306
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:34 am

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 3):
Build more jails, I mean you cant have criminals running around just because there isnt enough room in the jail.



Quoting Bill142 (Reply 4):

No, better crime prevention is what is required.

We need a little bit of both. In any case, limited jail capacity shall not be the question whether someone shall be sent to jail or not.

Whether long prison times are a good or bad idea is quite another thing. But we need jails, and I surely want to get people sent to jail when they committ crimes that justify such a punishment.
 
speedbird747BA
Posts: 1312
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:47 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:34 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
Do you know how much it costs to house a prisoner for a year?

More than 20K, but less than 25K if my memory serves me well....


Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Comorin (Reply 25):
4. Buy your OWN G5 as a mere toy with your bonus at age 30.

Ha ha, nice! Thanks!

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 29):
We need a little bit of both. In any case, limited jail capacity shall not be the question whether someone shall be sent to jail or not.

 checkmark 
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
PanAmOldDC8
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:25 pm

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 15):
Result? Additcts out of jails, drug pushers out of business, and out of jails. You've probably cleared out 1/3 to 1/2 of the prison population. Lots of room now for remaining black hats.

Lock them up and throw away the key , as with all offenders. Hang the murders, thereby saving the taxpayers money and don't give the c**p that there may be a mistake, with all the DNA stuff today there is a one in a million chance of it being wrong.
We have become too complacent in our dealing the those who commit crimes, in Canada, we slap them on the wrist and let the out to commit the same crime over and over. just a recent case a man that has been deported 8 times, now has a Immigration trial that could last up to 5 years, while we the taxpayers have to pay to keep him in jail. He should be put on the first pane back to where he came from, by the way he was convicted of murdering a man and selling drugs
I firmly believe in tough sentences, but at the same time make sure that the person who is convicted is the right person
I know a lot of you will say that I am wrong but just look back in history and you will see that tough sentences are a deterrent
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 32):
I know a lot of you will say that I am wrong but just look back in history and you will see that tough sentences are a deterrent

Absolute rubbish. The current system of criminalising drug use is NOT WORKING. We need to think outside the box. Give drugs away to addicts - no more pushers. No more crime to support their habit.
 
9V
Topic Author
Posts: 1368
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:35 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 32):
Hang the murders, thereby saving the taxpayers money and don't give the c**p that there may be a mistake

You shoud read a book called The Innocent Man by John Grisham about a guy called Ron Williamson. It will make you think twice about the death penalty.
 
PanAmOldDC8
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:25 pm

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting 9V (Reply 34):
You shoud read a book called The Innocent Man by John Grisham about a guy called Ron Williamson. It will make you think twice about the death penalty.

We don't have one in Canada and we should, it is time that we stop feeling sorry for those who commit crimes. My Aunt was murdered and no one seemed to care they gave the idiot 3 years as they said he was mentally incompetent. He did the same thing 2 years after release and is now back in jail for life. He should have been strung up the first time. And as for drug offenders do with them what they do in Singapore. I have read that book and it is pure fiction
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:49 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 4):
Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 3):
Build more jails, I mean you cant have criminals running around just because there isnt enough room in the jail.

No, better crime prevention is what is required.

No, what it needed is to put the penalty back in penal system.

Quoting Comorin (Reply 12):
think the idea of Iincarceration as both deterrence and punishment is pretty backward for crimes where you do not need to remove the individual from society. Britain had the problem of overcrowding a few centuries ago, and they just shipped them to Oz - problem solved instantly, a win-win all around

I have an idea, lets offer any prisoner say 1k per year of sentence and a homestead in Iraq to go there and not come back.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 35):
I have read that book and it is pure fiction

Actually it's not fiction, pure or otherwise. A mentally ill man was almost executed for a crime that he didn't commit. But I doubt that you actually read it.

I am against the death penalty because it is just wrong. It is not because the justice system gets it wrong once in a while, its because it is wrong. Rather than punish people, we need to find the ways to stop the crimes before it happens.

This is why I believe the only way around the problem of drug users committing crimes (including murder) is to remove the reason they do it. Give them the drugs - not as a reward, or because we are milktoasts, but because it will reduce the crime rate. Some control is necessary - Don't give them the drugs to take away, but have a clean, warm place where they can have their fix, and where needles won't be shared, and where maybe, just maybe they can be convinced to give it up.

But at the end of the day, I am safer - my family is safer and we may actually be able to reverse the trend for more people to get hooked.
 
PanAmOldDC8
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:25 pm

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting ANother (Reply 37):
But at the end of the day, I am safer - my family is safer and we may actually be able to reverse the trend for more people to get hooked

I have read the book and I still think of it as fiction
Second I agree with you on the need for rehab for drug offenders, but the governments need to enact laws that will make sure that these people get the help they need and also have the appropriate housing for them
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:14 pm

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 30):
More than 20K, but less than 25K if my memory serves me well....

Not in Louisiana.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 36):
No, what it needed is to put the penalty back in penal system.

Um, that is the problem. Too much penalty, not enough corrections.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
RichPhitzwell
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:19 am

RE: Should There Be A Limit On Jail Sentences?

Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:23 pm

In CA, the cost is much higher... maybe I am thinking of inmates on death row vs actually killing them, but it was in the 100's k per yr
Nonav.com kinda like Whiners except the lights are on and the pimps been paid

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: LittleFokker, scbriml and 9 guests