jutes85
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Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:07 pm

UK study of what car manufacturers require major repairs after a couple of years.

Percent of cars that had to be called back to the shop for major overhauls after 3 to 9 years of ownership:

1. Mazda: 8.04%
2. Honda: 8.90%
3. Toyota: 15.78%
4. Mitsubishi: 17.04%
5. Kia: 17.39%

6. Subaru: 18.46%
7. Nissan: 18.86%
8. Lexus: 20.05%
9. Mini: 21.90%
10. Citroen: 25.98%

11. Daewoo: 26.30%
12. Hyundai: 26.36%
13. Peugeot: 26.59%
14. Ford: 26.76%
15. Suzuki: 27.20%

16. Porsche: 27.48%
17. Fiat: 28.49%
18. BMW: 28.64%
19. Vauxhall: 28.77%
20. Mercedes: 29.90%

21. Rover: 30.12%
22. Volvo: 31.28%
23. Volkswagen: 31.44%
24. Jaguar: 32.05%
25. Skoda: 32.12%

26. Chrysler: 34.90%
27. Audi: 36.74%
28. Seat: 36.87%
29. Renault: 36.87%
30. Alfa Romeo: 39.13%
31. Saab: 41.59%
32. Land Rover: 44.21%
33. Jeep: 46.36%

Source: Warranty Direct

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_7242.aspx
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aloges
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:20 pm

It would be interesting to know just what constitues a "major overhaul"... that and what needed to be overhauled in most cases. I'm guessing it's electronics defects in many cases.
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Jetsgo
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:52 pm

I am a bit surprised at the large gap between Honda and Toyota. Most everything else seems on par though.....Minus the complete and total lack of any GM product!  Confused

How can such an article hold any real credit without listing a top player such as General Motors?


Chris
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LOT767-300ER
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:09 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 2):
How can such an article hold any real credit without listing a top player such as General Motors?

Let me be the first to introduce you to the basic car brands. What scares me is that you are 21-25 and posted in a car thread and you dont know them.

Vauxhaull is a GM division. Otherwise known as Opel on the mainland.

Saab is a GM division.

GM unfortunately also owns 50.9% of Daewoo.

There really isnt much GM product out in Europe except Opel/Vauxhaull. The stuff that is branded as Chevrolet (such as Lacetti etc. etc.) are Daewoo products (Some douchebag in Detroit thought id be nice to associate that shit with a Tahoe)
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:16 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 2):
Minus the complete and total lack of any GM product!

Vauxhalls and Opels are so common in Europe that you can't turn your head without seeing at least one. Did you expect to see Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, and Saturn in Europe?

Mark
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LOT767-300ER
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:19 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 4):
Vauxhalls and Opels are so common in Europe that you can't turn your head without seeing at least one. Did you expect to see Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, and Saturn in Europe?

What is even more astounding is that in his profile it says he works at CarMax.

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 

Do I smell BS?  Silly
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:26 pm

Apologies.....it is late. I made two goofs. One, did not realize it originated from the UK. Completely skipped over it. Second, yes, I was looking for the likes of Chevy and Pontiac without specifying.

Anyway I would've really expected a closer gap between Honda and Toyota.


Chris
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T prop
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:26 pm

This is garbage. It mus tbe one of those aftermaket warranty companies putting this list out? Come on now, Kia doing much better than most other brands? Most likely because they don't last 3-9 years, and therefore there are no warranty claims against them.
 
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:30 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 6):
Apologies.....it is late. I made two goofs. One, did not realize it originated from the UK. Completely skipped over it. Second, yes, I was looking for the likes of Chevy and Pontiac without specifying.

Why in gods name were you looking for Pontiac when you saw Peugeot, Citroen, Renault and Vauxhaull on the list?
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:35 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 8):
Why in gods name were you looking for Pontiac

When tired, Pontiac was what I instantly associated with GM. Remember, looked over the fact it was UK, so I was expecting American brands. Thats all.

Quoting T prop (Reply 7):
Kia doing much better than most other brands?

While I too am surprised, I would hold your fire there buddy. Kia is getting better, fast. Same goes for Hyundai. They will be giving Honda and Toyota a real run in the next couple years.


Chris
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:37 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 9):
When tired, Pontiac was what I instantly associated with GM. Remember, looked over the fact it was UK, so I was expecting American brands. Thats all.

Ok Ill buy that with hesitation.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:39 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 10):
Ok Ill buy that with hesitation.

Very well.

What are your thoughts on the list though?
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LOT767-300ER
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:44 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 11):
Very well.

What are your thoughts on the list though?

Its BS. There really isnt much to say.

Take a look at Toyota, Honda and Lexus. IMO Lexus should be somewhere in the top 3. What the hell is Mazda doing at #1? This list is almost as believable as a person in Chicago who says the word "soda" (an action that could mean death!)
 
T prop
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:45 pm

Here's their list of most reliable cars for the U.S. The higher the percentage, the higher the number of failures in that brand. This is from that link I posted in my first reply, oh yeah, on the same page they have a 'click here to buy warranty' button.  Yeah sure



ACURA 33.29%
AUDI 30.78%
BMW 36.79%
BUICK 26.89%
CADILLAC 40.20%
CHEVROLET 25.34%
CHRYSLER 28.28%
DAEWOO 19.18%
DODGE 26.47%
EAGLE 23.06%
FORD 26.11%
GMC 28.69%
HONDA 25.07%
HYUNDAI 14.87%
INFINITI 36.93%
ISUZU 21.73%
JAGUAR 57.84%
JEEP 27.74%
KIA 17.39%

LAND ROVER 22.89%
LEXUS 39.25%
LINCOLN 32.59%
MAZDA 21.20%
MERCEDES BENZ 36.23%
MERCURY 26.11%
MITSUBISHI 16.80%
NISSAN 29.37%
OLDSMOBILE 26.20%
PLYMOUTH 22.99%
PONTIAC 27.45%
PORSCHE 41.48%
SAAB 37.23%
SATURN 31.11%
SUBARU 21.83%
SUZUKI 22.35%
TOYOTA 24.05%
VOLKSWAGEN 24.29%
VOLVO 42.76%
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:51 pm

Here is a real chart of American market cars.

 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:01 pm

Quoting T prop (Reply 13):
Here's their list of most reliable cars for the U.S

I would like to bring your attention to something. In your first post in this thread, you bashed KIA pretty well. Are you aware that according to your list they placed 3rd? With another Korean automaker ahead of them?

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 14):
Here is a real chart of American market cars.

Thank you. Lexus seems well placed, as does Land Rover. But I still don't know how I feel about Buick and Lincoln placing above Honda and Toyota.

Something interesting tough, in T prop's list, KIA placed third. In yours, they placed dead last. That seems to be a bit too wide of a margin.
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aloges
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:05 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 14):
Here is a real chart of American market cars.

Some of that is surprising. Does that factor in the age of the cars affected in any kind of way, and if no, do people keep the MBs and BMWs longer than their Toyotas?

I imagine that MB's bad ranking is due to the issues they had with the electronics in e.g. the E-class, and are VW's and Audi's ranks so low due to Mexican imports? I've often read here that they don't compare to EU imports. Finally, how on earth did Mini manage to score so bad, being owned by BMW who are so much better?
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T prop
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:12 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 15):

I would like to bring your attention to something. In your first post in this thread, you bashed KIA pretty well. Are you aware that according to your list they placed 3rd? With another Korean automaker ahead of them?

Yes I'm aware, hence the little rolleyes thing after my text. The list is from the same place that the original posters list came from, an aftermarket warranty company. These guys are not the most reliable source, the list I posted is meant to show this. If you want to believe it, they don't rate Lexus, Infinity, Acura to good. In fact Kia and Hyundai are the top 2 and Plymouth beats the luxury Japanese models as well. I have a 10 year old Plymouth and I can assure you, it's no Lexus.
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:52 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 15):
But I still don't know how I feel about Buick and Lincoln placing above Honda and Toyota.

I wonder if mileage is a factor in this? Most people who buy Buicks and Lincolns drive less than 5000km per year with the left turn signal on the entire time.

Kris
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:44 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 3):
Some douchebag in Detroit thought id be nice to associate that shit with a Tahoe)

Or with the Corvette. I just can't understand some people.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 4):
Did you expect to see Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, and Saturn in Europe?

The complete Cadillac lineup is available in Europe, enhanced with some Saab branded as BTS.

What makes me really laugh, is Skoda's position.
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rammstein
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting Jutes85 (Thread starter):

17. Fiat: 28.49%
18. BMW: 28.64%
20. Mercedes: 29.90%
23. Volkswagen: 31.44%
27. Audi: 36.74%

Quite embarassing for our fellow German friends  rotfl 
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ltbewr
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:02 pm

Don't forget that the ads referred to in the initial post was from an independent extended warranty company. They offer for a premium to cover the costs of repairs, towing, car rental, for a set time and mileage beyond that of the original manufacturer's. Often these extended warranties are sold by car dealers or even by the car makers themselves, with a significant % of the premium as profit to those who sell them so have considerable incentive to do so. Thus they will push ads to scare people into buying them. An extended warranty for 3 years/30,000 miles for a mid-level car can have a premium of $1,200 in the USA plus financing costs.
Are they worth it? It may be good if one is buying a used car, including off-lease models, if a model has a higher rate than usual of costly problems or has a lot of fancy items. I know myself, that under an extended warranty, they replaced a in-tank fuel pump, the towing, part of the rental car costs, which would have totaled over $600 out of my pocket. My parents had a dog of a Mercury Sable (= Ford Taurus) that probably had $3000 in work done to the transmission, the engine, front suspension, electronic parts all largely covered by the extended warranty.
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 19):
Or with the Corvette. I just can't understand some people.

The Corvette is not branded as a Chevrolet in Europe and Japan as of 2005.
 
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WildcatYXU
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 22):
The Corvette is not branded as a Chevrolet in Europe and Japan as of 2005.

Interesting. They really market it simply as Corvette
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halls120
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 2):
I am a bit surprised at the large gap between Honda and Toyota.

I'm not. I have owned 5 Honda products, and not one of them ever required anything other than factory recommended service.
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AirCop
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:48 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 24):
not one of them ever required anything other than factory recommended service.

Can say the same for Nissans, Peugeots, and the Toyota Highlander that I own. Our Toyota Prius hybrid system had a total failure at 80,000 miles but Toyota replaced it at no cost. Now for the american cars that I have owned, nah lets not go there..especially Fords after 90,000 miles.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:22 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 24):
I'm not. I have owned 5 Honda products, and not one of them ever required anything other than factory recommended service.

And that's how it should be. Toyota however is the same way, and that is what I was getting at.
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lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:40 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 2):
am a bit surprised at the large gap between Honda and Toyota. Most everything else seems on par though.....Minus the complete and total lack of any GM product!

They probably excused themselves from the report, as their reliability in the past has been dismal at best.

I understand their getting *better*, but I have absolutely no draw to buy any vehicles from any of the big '3' automakers in North America.

Not because of the vehicle... it's because they do NOT understand the meaning of after-sales care here.

Mazda has treated me absolutely fantastic since I bought my Mazda6 (which ironically is made in Detroit).

Goes to show you that it's not the fact that it's American made, it's that Mazda has decided to take care of their customers.

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L-188
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:06 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 21):
Are they worth it? It may be good if one is buying a used car, including off-lease models, if a model has a higher rate than usual of costly problems or has a lot of fancy items. I know myself, that under an extended warranty, they replaced a in-tank fuel pump, the towing, part of the rental car costs, which would have totaled over $600 out of my pocket. My parents had a dog of a Mercury Sable (= Ford Taurus) that probably had $3000 in work done to the transmission, the engine, front suspension, electronic parts all largely covered by the extended warranty.

Extended warrenties seem to get pretty well dogged by all those folks on the radio consumer rights shows.

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 27):
Not because of the vehicle... it's because they do NOT understand the meaning of after-sales care here

I feel that way about Toyota, they are getting so big these days they seem to be on the virge of loosing the concept of customer support (ala Dell Computer)

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 27):
Mazda has treated me absolutely fantastic since I bought my Mazda6 (which ironically is made in Detroit).

That's a Ford!!!

Quoting T prop (Reply 17):
The list is from the same place that the original posters list came from, an aftermarket warranty company. These guys are not the most reliable source, the list I posted is meant to show this

I am a little suspicious of that list for the same reason.

That and I question which of those vehicles are run harder then others. I would dare say the typical F150 is going to be used and worked harder by it's owner then an comparable Audi or Kia.
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LOT767-300ER
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:06 pm

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 27):
Mazda has treated me absolutely fantastic since I bought my Mazda6 (which ironically is made in Detroit).

Are you that retard or ignorant? Mazda is owned by Ford.

Secondly its not made in Detroit but Flat Rock, MI

Thirdly the Mazda6 uses the Ford CD3 platform which is also used by the likes of the Mercury Milan and the Ford Fusion.

Your post just made me laugh.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:17 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 29):
Are you that retard or ignorant?

If you are going to insult someone, make sure you are using proper context. You said "retard" when it should have been "retarded."  Wink
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Duff44
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:06 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 29):
Secondly its not made in Detroit but Flat Rock, MI

Which is 15mi south of Detroit... close enough

Quoting L-188 (Reply 28):

That and I question which of those vehicles are run harder then others. I would dare say the typical F150 is going to be used and worked harder by it's owner then an comparable Audi or Kia.

In the surveys posted, I don't see anything that constitutes what a 'problem' or 'major overhaul' is, or if light pickups are included in these numbers.
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lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Study: Major Repairs Needed To New Cars

Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:55 am

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 29):
Are you that retard or ignorant? Mazda is owned by Ford.

Secondly its not made in Detroit but Flat Rock, MI

Thirdly the Mazda6 uses the Ford CD3 platform which is also used by the likes of the Mercury Milan and the Ford Fusion.

Your post just made me laugh.

Your post also brought a chuckle from me, since you apparently didn't read close enough to what I was saying.

First off, I know that Ford owns a PORTION of Mazda. 33.9% actually.

I spent 2 months talking with my dealership about the vehicle, and reading up on it in multiple magazines and books. I've known since I was about 15 that Ford owns a large portion of Mazda.

Oh, and contradictory to your own statement that "Ford owns Mazda" you're technically wrong. They own a portion of it. If you want to go to semantics, I'll go there.

Secondly, I know my car is built on a Ford platform. My Dealership was very proud of that fact, and discussed it with me, as I was concerned to be buying into another "American" product.

Thirdly, my post was pointing out a clear lack of "taking care of the customer" that the 3 big auto-companies have here in North America. Case in point:

Quoting Lnglive1011yyz (Reply 27):
Goes to show you that it's not the fact that it's American made, it's that Mazda has decided to take care of their customers.

Before you start calling people names, spend a few minutes using your well-paid-for education and read and understand the meaning behind someones post.

Quoting Duff44 (Reply 31):
Which is 15mi south of Detroit... close enough

Thank you.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 30):
If you are going to insult someone, make sure you are using proper context. You said "retard" when it should have been "retarded."

If he's going to insult someone, perhaps he should try to use his brain and actually read what was written.

1011yyz
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