AerospaceFan
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Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:17 pm

What Sen. Barack Obama has said about himself may not be entirely true, according to one news report. This allegation came as a surprise to me when I read the following from a prestigious source:

(Excerpt)

Quote:
The Chicago Sun-Times columnist Lynn Sweet was the first to spot in 2004, when Obama burst on the national stage at the Democratic party convention, that his memoir, Dreams from My Father, contained “composite” characters and changed names.

“Except for public figures and his family, it is impossible to know who is real and who is not,” she pointed out.

Obama admitted as much in his introduction, saying he had altered characters “for the sake of their privacy”. As with the revelation that he took cocaine in his youth, he appears to have been candid about potential areas of controversy.

These "potential areas of controversy" are further described in the article from which the above is taken.

Much of the Senator's background, however, apparently remains unknown. As informed citizens, we must know what it is as truth, rather than as autobiographical gloss.

I find Sen. Obama's appeal interesting in that it seems to indicate that, among a large segment of Americans, multiculturalism and multiracialism have taken strong root. Nevertheless, until, or perhaps even as, Sen. Obama's so-called "secrets" are revealed to the general public, I question whether any Presidential ambitions on his part will be deemed realistic, at least in the near term.

Please see:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2569704_2,00.html
What's fair is fair.
 
mham001
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:42 pm

He's also going to have to answer belonging to a racist church.
 
Mir
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:49 pm



It's going to be a long two years if we have to hear this every week.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:53 pm

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 1):
He's also going to have to answer belonging to a racist church.

This is certainly news to me! I would surmise that this is a black church, then? Is it one that excludes whites, or blames whites for various problems, I wonder?
What's fair is fair.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:13 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 3):
Quoting Mham001 (Reply 1):
He's also going to have to answer belonging to a racist church.

This is certainly news to me! I would surmise that this is a black church, then? Is it one that excludes whites, or blames whites for various problems, I wonder?

Probably one that just has a black population, like thousands of churches across this nation. Just as there are many churches that have an all-white population.

And what the hell is the purpose of THIS thread, Oh Zealot One?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:30 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
And what the hell is the purpose of THIS thread, Oh Zealot One?

Same puspose as all of Arftie Flufkins . . . .

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):
Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Every politician has secrets in their background. So what. No one will look at that crap anyway. The voters will see the here and now, not the back then and there.

This won't go anywhere, unless of course someone proves him to be a serial killer or some such.

Dead issue already.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
frequentflyer
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:30 pm

What a load of horsedung AFan really.
Take off and live
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Thread starter):

THIS IS HUGE! What ARE you SAYING Aerospacefan!? Barak Obama can't be president. I find your whole thread racist. Obama is black and a Senator from Illinois, that's ALL we need to know. I find any delving into his background completely racist.



At least this is what I learned from the other Obama thread.

[Edited 2007-01-29 14:46:59]
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:02 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
Dead issue already.

Was Whitewater a dead issue?

Were Sen. Kerry's Vietnam protests?

Was Pres. Bush's military record?

All these things, no matter how long past, were the subject of intense scrutiny.

Why, then, would the need to be less than candid in one's own autobiography -- to say nothing of other things mentioned in the article -- be deemed a "dead issue" in a Presidential campaign?

Are we to turn away from investigating a Presidential candidate's background merely because to do so may cause us discomfort?
What's fair is fair.
 
deltagator
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:09 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
I find your whole thread racist.

Please point out to me where ASF said he was better than Obama because ASF is white and Obama is black. Until then stuff your racism rant away for the real thing. ASF might be a serial thread starter but I see nothing in his starting post that is even remotely racist.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
Obama is black and a Senator from Illinois, that's ALL we need to know. I find any delving into his background completely racist.

I think we need to know a little bit more than those two items. I personally find him too inexperienced and perhaps just the flavor of the week who will fall by the wayside once he starts to show that inexperience or he is eaten alive by the Clinton machine.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
Are we to turn away from investigating a Presidential candidate's background merely because to do so may cause us discomfort?

Yes. He is the media's darling and we are not allowed to question anything he says. Didn't you get that memo?  Wink
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
Dougloid
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:20 pm

We get to think we're important in Iowa once every four years but there's been an early start here.
Mrs. Clinton drew a very large crowd of interested people last week and the presidential aspirants running around loose are as thick as fleas on a dog.

I still do not know a lot about Obamalamadingdong except that for a constitutional law professor he hasn't published any scholarly works which I find more than a little odd...haven't looked into Mrs. Clinton's publication history although both she and Bill Clinton were profs at the U of Arkansas-Fayetteville a few years before I got there.

What irks me is that the Democrats have a class of excellent potential candidates this time around, not the least of whom are Bill Richardson and our own governor Tom Vilsack and all of them are basically finished before they start. Does this amount to primary by media acclaim?

What about the track record of the candidates, for heaven's sake?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Redwarf
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:21 pm

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
Are we to turn away from investigating a Presidential candidate's background merely because to do so may cause us discomfort?

Wow, our candidates have secrets! Let's play detectives now, no matter how shoddy our evidence is!

It's practically a given that background checks on candidates will continue since office monkeys doing 9-5 jobs want "sizzling" distractions from the ho-hum lifestyles they wallow in.
Son of Gojira
 
Dougloid
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:33 pm

Quoting Redwarf (Reply 11):
Wow, our candidates have secrets! Let's play detectives now, no matter how shoddy our evidence is!

It's practically a given that background checks on candidates will continue since office monkeys doing 9-5 jobs want "sizzling" distractions from the ho-hum lifestyles they wallow in.

I know a guy who was an operative for a guy who ran for state senate here. They did a lot of digging on his opponent. I mean, a LOT. They're of course looking for the silver bullet (which is what they call it) that'll stop somebody in their tracks. Like that DUI conviction you forgot to mention or the college degree you say you have. They did find that the lady opponent had given $5 to PETA one time....that's how in depth it went.

As a student at Long Beach City College one of our tasks in a class was to go to the Election Commission and get campaign contribution records on a candidate for office....I drew Walter Tucker III, the congressman from Compton, California who is a very interesting person. That was before he went to prison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_R._Tucker_III
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 9):
ASF might be a serial thread starter but I see nothing in his starting post that is even remotely racist.

Please, go look at the other Obama thread, with the Fox news clip.

Once you read through that thread you will see, as I'm sure Aerospacefan saw, that my post was actually dripping with sarcasm.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
deltagator
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:55 pm

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 13):
Once you read through that thread you will see, as I'm sure Aerospacefan saw, that my post was actually dripping with sarcasm.

Then reference that thread. Otherwise your sarcasm comes across as an uninformed use of the race card which is something this world surely doesn't need more of. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton do enough of that for all of us combined.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 14):
Then reference that thread.



Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
At least this is what I learned from the other Obama thread.

I did.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 14):
Otherwise your sarcasm comes across as an uninformed use of the race card which is something this world surely doesn't need more of.

But that's perfect. That's exactly what I want to come across as, because that's exactly what it is. It's the same argument that was used by Obama defenders in the other thread. Why would I want to say HEY LOOK I"M KIDDING, when I just showed how ridiculous that line of thought is. I just did the work of Airliners.net Libs for them. They were, and are, going to do that anyway.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:18 am

Your guys' bickering is getting in the way of a juicy gossip thread.
International Homo of Mystery
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:23 am

...well well see this tread has gone down the toilet fast.


So Obama left trivial details out of his memoir. Sounds like he will fit the current political landscape great (because GWB has run the most secretaive administration we know).
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
deltagator
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 15):
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 14):
Then reference that thread.



Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 7):
At least this is what I learned from the other Obama thread.

I did.

Editing your response to explain that after I posted doesn't help.  Wink

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 15):
But that's perfect. That's exactly what I want to come across as, because that's exactly what it is. It's the same argument that was used by Obama defenders in the other thread.

Ok, now I get it after understanding how the previous thread fits in.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
Your guys' bickering is getting in the way of a juicy gossip thread.

True. Let's get the gossip rolling. Perhaps by the end of the day we will have the smoking gun on him, cancer solved, and men back on the moon.  Wink
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:44 am

Hillary Clinton is behind all of those attacks on Obama

HAHAHAHA
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:46 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 18):

Editing your response to explain that after I posted doesn't help.

Bullshit, he edited his post within the first 41 seconds. You posted over 22 minutes later.
International Homo of Mystery
 
Falcon84
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
Was Whitewater a dead issue?

]

Yes.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
Were Sen. Kerry's Vietnam protests?

Yes.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
Was Pres. Bush's military record?

Yes.

Next set of questions.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
deltagator
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):
Bullshit, he edited his post within the first 41 seconds. You posted over 22 minutes later.

Ever hear of someone starting a reply and then walking away to take care of a crying baby? Probably not.

So it seems he edited his original post after I started reading but before I hit the Post Message button. We are both wrong in this case. Drop the "bullshit" outrage and get back to the gossip.  Wink

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 17):
So Obama left trivial details out of his memoir.

Is it a memoir or does it cross the line to semi-fiction? "Composite characters" sounds an awful lot like fiction to me. Again, I think he is too inexperienced to hold the Presidency at this time and could give two shits about him being black, white, green, or purple, but making up characters in what is supposed to be non-fiction might lead to questions about his overall veracity.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:02 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 22):

Ever hear of someone starting a reply and then walking away to take care of a crying baby? Probably not.

Yes I have. And if you wait over 20 minutes to finish a reply, you owe it to your readers to refresh the screen before you post. Now stop bickering and let us get to the gossip, PLEASE.
International Homo of Mystery
 
deltagator
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:03 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 23):
Yes I have. And if you wait over 20 minutes to finish a reply, you owe it to your readers to refresh the screen before you post.

Point taken, lesson learned. Will do my best to refresh from here on out.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 21):
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
Was Whitewater a dead issue?

]

Yes.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
Were Sen. Kerry's Vietnam protests?

Yes.

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
Was Pres. Bush's military record?

Yes.

Next set of questions.

Was Bush's "alcohol/drug" use an issue?

Was Bush's National Guard service and issue?

Was Bush's grades in college an issue?

Some how these issues are relevant to the media, while Obama's past is not. Interesting.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 23):
you owe it to your readers to refresh the screen before you post.

Good idea, I've got burnt on that before.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
cba
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 8):
Were Sen. Kerry's Vietnam protests?

Now if those had actually had some factual base behind them, then maybe. That photo of him with Jane Fonda was actually found to have been Photoshopped. About as factually correct as that whole swift boat veteran crap.
 
deltagator
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 25):
Was Bush's grades in college an issue?

The funny thing with that one was how Kerry's campaign (perhaps not Sen. Lurch himself) tried to portray Dubya as the village idiot (yeah yeah, save the snickering until the end) and being stupid but it was shown that Dubya had a better overall GPA than Kerry did at Yale and IIRC never had a grade of F (though a couple of Ds perhaps) while Kerry had at least one F.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
searpqx
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:57 am

Holy Christ! Obama has a very unique and complicated background, and GASP - he acknowledges it! Oh no - honesty! Heaven forbid!  sarcastic 
Where in that article is anything even remotely hidden AF, UAL, etc?

Quote:
Obama admitted as much in his introduction, saying he had altered characters “for the sake of their privacy”. As with the revelation that he took cocaine in his youth, he appears to have been candid about potential areas of controversy.

Are you truly so desperate to smear him that you take an article that in essence says, 'He's got a past, he appears to have been candid about it, but its going to be interesting to see how it unfolds' and completely twist it to imply that hes hiding deep dark secrets and that the press is giving him a pass on it?
But have no fear, the US media is already going into its election feeding frenzy. No matter how biased you think the media is, if they smell blood, they'll go for it, and that will apply to Obama as much as any other candidate.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
keesje
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
It's going to be a long two years if we have to hear this every week.

 checkmark 

How was the sister of his brother in law behaving 13 yrs ago? Photo's?
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 29):
Are you truly so desperate to smear him that you take an article that in essence says,

That's not the point.

I have no desire to smear him at all. In fact I'd like to see him as the Democrat candidate, simply because his inexperience will doom him.

However, The point that was made in the previous Obama thread and carried over to this one was that up until last week when the Clinton Campaign began to release Obama information the media had no desire to investigate Obama. He was untouchable.

Then Insight magazine published information released by the Clinton Campaign. But since Insight is a "Right-Wing" publication it was immediately dismissed then attacked.

Now, Aerospacefan brings out an article from a publication acceptable to Libs and Democrats. So it's interesting to see that NOW all of a sudden the Media has decided to begin looking into Obama's past.

When Fox mentioned that the Insight magazine article was going to open the floodgates of Media attention, THAT was racist, according to so A.net libs.

Naturally, I then assumed that an article continuing to investigate Obama MUST be racially motivated.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 29):
Where in that article is anything even remotely hidden AF, UAL, etc?

The truth is what is hidden, as it always is when facts such as names are changed to "protect" others. I question why anyone in the public eye purporting to write an autobiography would create composite characters in his background that do not actually exist as described. What, exactly, is being hidden? The American people have a right to know.
What's fair is fair.
 
jaysit
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:16 am

Obama is really an alien escaping from the planet Aerospacefan.

He has come down to Earth on an Aerospacefan spaceship where he is filling the minds of earthlings with such concepts as tolerance, hope, intelligence, concepts banned on the planet Aerospacefan.

The Alien Warlord, Aerospacefan, of the planet Aerospacefan has sent his minions to Earth, disguised in the form of crashing bores, to stop Obama's work on Earth. These minions lull you to sleep with their incessant and mindless chatter, then suck your brains out with a straw.

Be warned!!
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:34 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 33):
The Alien Warlord, Aerospacefan, of the planet Aerospacefan has sent his minions to Earth, disguised in the form of crashing bores, to stop Obama's work on Earth. These minions lull you to sleep with their incessant and mindless chatter, then suck your brains out with a straw.

Perhaps you can add The Sunday Times to the list of alien overlords, since it is that newspaper that published the article from which the quote is taken.

I'm not sure that Sen. Obama's work can be done if he doesn't indulge the public's right to know. The public does have a right to know, after all. This is one of the principles both learned and taught to all since Watergate.
What's fair is fair.
 
searpqx
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:57 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 31):
However, The point that was made in the previous Obama thread and carried over to this one was that up until last week when the Clinton Campaign began to release Obama information the media had no desire to investigate Obama. He was untouchable.

The only ones 'carrying over' anything are you and AF.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 31):
Then Insight magazine published information released by the Clinton Campaign. But since Insight is a "Right-Wing" publication it was immediately dismissed then attacked.

Honest question, do we know for sure that his came from Clinton? I have seen nothing other than the claim in Insight that this came from "researchers connected to Senator Clinton". No other sources have ever been provided by the story. Not denying that it didn't, but considering how quickly Fox et al picked it up, w/o proof, its just as likely it came from the right.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 31):
Now, Aerospacefan brings out an article from a publication acceptable to Libs and Democrats. So it's interesting to see that NOW all of a sudden the Media has decided to begin looking into Obama's past.

Huh? The man announced two weeks ago, and low and behold, there is a story. Seems like a pretty normal progression of events and I don't see any reticence in investigation.

Sounds to me like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. On the one hand you complain that 'some' think Senator Obama should get a pass, but on the other when he is investigated, the complaint becomes that its 'only now' that its happening. Again, its been two weeks, where is the delay?

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 32):
I question why anyone in the public eye purporting to write an autobiography would create composite characters in his background that do not actually exist as described

Perhaps, as he said, to protect privacy? He clearly states he did it, so I'm not quite sure I see the issue. And you can bet reporters on both sides of the fence are going to be spending plenty of time finding the 'facts'. And who knows, maybe some of them will actually be true this time!
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
AerospaceFan
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 35):
Perhaps, as he said, to protect privacy? He clearly states he did it, so I'm not quite sure I see the issue.

If he desires privacy, he is in the wrong line of work. Except in the most limited of senses, there is essentially no such thing as privacy for individuals in his position and of his aspirations after the lessons of Watergate. He is a duly elected high-ranking official of the United States of America. His words in his autobiography are his own.

As a public figure in the most public of professions, he has opened the door by his own words, and thus the battle is joined.

The people have a right to know.
What's fair is fair.
 
UALPHLCS
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:05 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 35):
Huh? The man announced two weeks ago, and low and behold, there is a story.

The guy has been treated like a rock star for months before he made any announcements. In fact he's not even an official candidate yet is he? He only announced an exploratory committee.

However, that being said we had media breathlessly anticipating an Obama candidacy months ago.
A little less Hooah, and a little more Dooah.
 
searpqx
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Backgro

Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:38 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 36):
As a public figure in the most public of professions, he has opened the door by his own words, and thus the battle is joined.

The people have a right to know.

And I'm still trying to figure out how he's hiding anything, or how/if the public is being denied access to information. When he wrote his autobiography he chose to obscure individual identities to protect privacy, and he clearly stated that he did so. He's certainly not going around saying that now that he's an announced 'pre' candidate, that he can't be investigated, and this article, by a 'liberally acceptable' source, shows that in fact the digging has started.

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 37):
However, that being said we had media breathlessly anticipating an Obama candidacy months ago.

You and I are on the same page regarding the hype, its irritating, excessive and pointless. But that really doesn't have any bearing on AF's implication, that something is being hidden by the Obama camp.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
jaysit
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 34):
The public does have a right to know, after all. This is one of the principles both learned and taught to all since Watergate.

Yeah, because who his father boinked as part of his Kenyan rural customs is of the same importance as Watergate.

You take a London Times article and turn it into something sinister like Watergate. Give the nonsense a rest for a change.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting UALPHLCS (Reply 37):
The guy has been treated like a rock star for months before he made any announcements. In fact he's not even an official candidate yet is he? He only announced an exploratory committee.

Sounds like Governor Bush back in 1998, doesn't it?
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AerospaceFan
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:04 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 38):
And I'm still trying to figure out how he's hiding anything, or how/if the public is being denied access to information.



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 38):
You and I are on the same page regarding the hype, its irritating, excessive and pointless. But that really doesn't have any bearing on AF's implication, that something is being hidden by the Obama camp.



Quoting Jaysit (Reply 39):
Yeah, because who his father boinked as part of his Kenyan rural customs is of the same importance as Watergate.

Former Defense Secretary Rumsfeld's association with the phrase notwithstanding, there are several kinds of issues with regard to what we know: There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, and there are unknown unknowns.

See also: http://deming.eng.clemson.edu/den/archive/98.10/msg00161.html

Put another way, we do not know what we do not know.

The public is entitled to an investigation as to what the real truth is behind what appears to be a concealment of the truth of the names of the individuals once important -- and perhaps still important -- in Sen. Obama's life.

The best and perhaps the only disinfectant against the possibility of corruption behind an admitted concealment is the sunlight of disclosure. The truth must out.

Should Sen. Obama not have wanted to reveal his life, he need not have written an autobiography and he certainly need not have run for and then attained high office, with aspirations for the highest office of all. Sen. Obama has already set up an exploratory committee investigating a potential run for the Presidency. He need not have done any of these things -- but he has, and now that this is so, the public's right to know shall not be denied.

See also:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070116/ap_on_el_pr/obama2008 (Sen. Obama launches Presidential effort)
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Falcon84
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 41):
The public is entitled to an investigation as to what the real truth is behind what appears to be a concealment of the truth of the names of the individuals once important -- and perhaps still important -- in Sen. Obama's life.

 rotfl  You're joking, right? What kind of investigation? Congressional? Hell, we couldn't even get decent congressional investigations into 9/11 from Congress, or how Iraq ended up the way it did!

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 41):
The best and perhaps the only disinfectant against the possibility of corruption behind an admitted concealment is the sunlight of disclosure. The truth must out.

 rotfl   rotfl 

And this gem, from one of the most hard-core supporters of the most paranoid and secretive American administration of all time!

Stop it, AF, you're killing me!  rotfl 

That is a classic gem, AF. Unbelievable.
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 42):
You're joking, right? What kind of investigation? Congressional? Hell, we couldn't even get decent congressional investigations into 9/11 from Congress, or how Iraq ended up the way it did!

Vigorous media investigation, to start with. Sen. Obama should also come clean as to which individuals in the book are actually real, which are composite, and which don't really exist at all. This is hardly too much to ask for in regard to the autobiography of a Presidential aspirant.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 42):
And this gem, from one of the most hard-core supporters of the most paranoid and secretive American administration of all time!

The concealment of information in this case is in the service of national security, for the most part. To the extent that it is not, then there is a case to be made for disclosure, subject to executive privilege. Privilege is a Constitutionally balanced right of the Executive Branch against intrusion upon its powers by the other two.
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Falcon84
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:52 am

=AerospaceFan,reply=43]Vigorous media investigation, to start with.[/quote]

 rotfl 

You are increible. If someone on this forum had asked for "vigerous media investigation" of this administration, you'd have been all over them for failing to support the administration in time of crisis, or some such nonsense.

This is as close to a "non-story", as there is, and you want to treat it like it's Watergate.  rotfl 

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 43):
The concealment of information in this case is in the service of national security, for the most part.

You may buy that line of bull, but I don't. This administration hides almost everything it does. Hell, this President has hidden all he did as governor in dad's presidential library, so the public can't read it. And you buy that tripe? Uh, OK.

Hypocritical, AF.
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 44):
If someone on this forum had asked for "vigerous media investigation" of this administration, you'd have been all over them for failing to support the administration in time of crisis, or some such nonsense.

If a cognizable claim may be made that revealing the identities of individuals important in Sen. Obama's life implicates issues of national security, or if the case can be made that even revealing the fictitiousness of such individuals could place our national interests in jeopardy, then of course I am willing to concede that Sen. Obama has the right -- and perhaps the obligation -- to keep the full truth under wraps.

But if not, then I fail to see the point of the comparison.
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Falcon84
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 45):
If a cognizable claim may be made that revealing the identities of individuals important in Sen. Obama's life implicates issues of national security, or if the case can be made that even revealing the fictitiousness of such individuals could place our national interests in jeopardy, then of course I am willing to concede that Sen. Obama has the right -- and perhaps the obligation -- to keep the full truth under wraps.

You're reaching for straw, my friend. This is a non-story. Are you that scared of the Democrats, that you're already reacing for crap, AF? Because that is what this is-crap.
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:46 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 46):
You're reaching for straw, my friend. This is a non-story.

How would you have reacted to allegations that President Bush's grades at Yale were actually "composite" of possible grades?

Suppose that the President admitted that such grades were composites?

Isn't the truth important to know?

The only difference between composite (i.e., false) grades in a transcript and composite (i.e., potentially fictitious or false) individuals in a book purporting to be autobiographical is that one concerns the integrity of claiming an accomplishment, while the other concerns the integrity of claiming one's associations. In either case, the truth must be known in the context at hand.

In fact, allegations of falsity that were later proved were to the extreme negative consequence to the author of A Million Little Pieces, as some here may recall. Fiction is fiction; fiction in the guise of nonfiction is cause for great concern.
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Falcon84
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:52 am

Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 47):
How would you have reacted to allegations that President Bush's grades at Yale were actually "composite" of possible grades?

I wouldn't care-it happened 30 freaking years ago. It means nothing now.
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Dougloid
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RE: Article Posits Sen. Obama "Secrets" In Background

Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 48):
Quoting AerospaceFan (Reply 47):
How would you have reacted to allegations that President Bush's grades at Yale were actually "composite" of possible grades?

I wouldn't care-it happened 30 freaking years ago. It means nothing now.

Let me first say that this is coming from a yellow dog Harry Truman Democrat-definitely Old School.

There's a lot we do not end up knowing about the people who lead us. But as far as a matter of a deliberate falsehood concerning material matters, it's germane to character, and that's why it's important in anyone who seeks public office. If it was shown that President Bush cheated on his exams or faked his college transcripts, I do not think I'd care when it happened, I'd want his ass on the carpet.

A liar is a liar is a liar. Or, to put it another way as a very wise person told me one time, "Suck one cock.....just one little teensy weensy cock, just once, and forever after you'll be a cocksucker to all the world."

A lot of people at the U of Arkansas Law School in Fayetteville were very reluctant to talk about Bill Clinton's time there as a professor and his practice of the law prof's right of jus primae noctis. It damn near took an act of congress to find out what office was his. By the way, it's number 204 in Leflar Hall or what remains of it. But Bill's bullshit didn't stop there as the case of Paula Corbin Jones and later Monica Lewinsky showed.

What little I was able to get people to tell me in confidence leads me to think this country was poorly served by el presidente Bubba, and it causes me to question Hilary Clinton's fitness for office-as she knew all the details but ignored them in a single minded quest to get to where she is today.

Character means you don't lie or plagiarize. Character means you don't use a position of power to exact sexual favors from people. Character means you don't perjure yourself to save your sorry ass. Character means you don't turn a blind eye to the things that folks do because you think you can profit by their continued upward ascent.

Now....how's that all play out? I don't know. But as the poet said in the Nun's Priest's Tale, "Murder will out, as we see day by day."
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn

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