PC12Fan
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No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:12 am

I don't see how they can defend themselves this time. I gave them the benifit of the doubt from the profit ratio angle, but not this time.

Screw EXXON.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16922298/
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scbriml
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:33 am

Exxon made $39.5b profit on revenue of nearly $378b. A margin of less than 10.5%, which is far from excessive. It's very easy just to look at the headline figure (which is impressive), but find out how much Exxon is spending on capital projects in 2007. How do you think they can fund that?

Yes, I work for a big oil company. My company also made record profits in 2006, but again, we're spending very nearly as much in capital projects in 2007 as we made in 2006.

It costs literally billion and billions of $s to get new oil and gas out of the ground. Activating enhanced recovery of existing fields (to extend their lives) is nearly as expensive.

If you're unhappy with "big oil" making large, but proportionate, profits, then push your government to tax their profits. But, you'd better be prepared to pay a lot more for their products as they slash their investments to compensate for the loss of income.

Still think you're being ripped off? You shouldn't, because you're not.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
halls120
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:46 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
Exxon made $39.5b profit on revenue of nearly $378b. A margin of less than 10.5%, which is far from excessive. It's very easy just to look at the headline figure (which is impressive), but find out how much Exxon is spending on capital projects in 2007. How do you think they can fund that?

Yes, damn them for having the audacity to try and make a reasonable return on investment. What the hell are they thinking about?  sarcastic 

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
If you're unhappy with "big oil" making large, but proportionate, profits, then push your government to tax their profits. But, you'd better be prepared to pay a lot more for their products as they slash their investments to compensate for the loss of income.

You don't get it. People like PC12fan believe that they have a constitutional right to cheap gasoline. It's their birthright.  Wink
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
RJdxer
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:49 am

So off of revenues of 377.64 billion they profited 39.5 billion. A little less than 10.5% of total revenue. I don't get it? Are you complaining about the extra .5% above the normal 10%? I really don't see the problem here. They sold a lot of gas and seems to me they made a fair profit. A look at the bottom of the page of the article you linked shows that a number of major companies made big gains in the profit department yet you aren't complaining about them, why?
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Prof

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:21 am

Hey I haven't bought gas in over a year... what's the current going price?

--------------------------------------------


And going back to economics 101 - a 10% profit margin is healthy and certainly reasonable. I don't see why people get so angry at oil companies, there are other industries/companies who gouge their customers far more.

Typical irrational ignorance, if you ask me.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
halls120
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 4):
Hey I haven't bought gas in over a year... what's the current going price?

$2.10 a gallon in northern VA, a dime cheaper south of Richmond.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
desertjets
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:45 am

Though it should be noted that ExxonMobil enjoys a profit margin that is considerably higher than other in the oil business. The number only seems so big given the huge revenues they generate. The difference in revenue $$$ between ExxonMobil and #2 (IIRC it is still WalMart which has paper thin margins) is pretty big.

but if you want to see high profit margins look at the commercial banks, financial services firms, and oddly enough Microsoft.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
David L
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:46 am

Who would bother to do the surveying, the exploration, the extraction, the processing, the distribution and the supply if there was nothing in it for them?
 
ltbewr
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:47 am

It isn't just the profits which are taxed and then flow to the stockholders, but the almost total assurance that big oil will never lose money. Don't forget too, that much of that stock and profits go to your and others pension and other retirement funds and fatten them up.
A bigger issue to me is the hidden and huge amounts of money given to top executives while down the line people are laid off or forced to be paid less and worse, the people in 3rd world countries where the oil comes from that are not being compensated or getting their fair share.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:53 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Thread starter):
I don't see how they can defend themselves this time. I gave them the benifit of the doubt from the profit ratio angle, but not this time.

Defend themselves from what? They made a record profit and oil is even down quite a bit this quarter.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 2):
You don't get it. People like PC12fan believe that they have a constitutional right to cheap gasoline.

AND you better not use too much of it and not create any greenhouse gas doing so Yeah sure

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
But, you'd better be prepared to pay a lot more for their products as they slash their investments to compensate for the loss of income.

Or you could follow the Democrats "rationale" of somehow lowering gas costs at the pump while simultaneously making it more expensive for oil companies to produce it by taxing them. Silly
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
sw733
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 6):
Though it should be noted that ExxonMobil enjoys a profit margin that is considerably higher than other in the oil business

So don't buy any ExxonMobil products...

Seriously, while gas prices have been absolutely ridiculous at times, we aren't doing jack to reduce our consumption, even thoughs who cry foul. You don't like giving the oil companies a ridiculous amount of profit - DON'T! Nobody forces you to buy gas.
 
PC12Fan
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
You shouldn't, because you're not.
I'll just blame it on the share holders them. ?

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 2):
People like PC12fan believe that they have a constitutional right to cheap gasoline.
That's not the case at all with me. I would support a tax that would boost price per gallon $1 or more because this country definitely needs a reality check when it comes to gas consumption.

The fact is that circumstances are different from last year. I reluctantly understand the case of profit margin, and that OPEC has a lot to do with it as well. But we are talking about almost 40 - say it with me - billion dollars, and there are two reasons that can explain it all. Greed and share holders dividends.

[Edited 2007-02-01 17:59:09]
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
halls120
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 11):
The fact is that circumstances are different from last year. I reluctantly understand the case of profit margin, and that OPEC has a lot to do with it as well. But we are talking about almost 40 - say it with me - billion dollars, and there are two reasons that can explain it all. Greed and share holders earnings.

While the lump sum is indeed large, their return on profit wasn't out of line. Why is a 10% return on investment for Exxon bad, and OK for any other company?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 11):
The fact is that circumstances are different from last year. I reluctantly understand the case of profit margin, and that OPEC has a lot to do with it as well. But we are talking about almost 40 - say it with me - billion dollars, and there are two reasons that can explain it all. Greed and share holders dividends.



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 12):
. Why is a 10% return on investment for Exxon bad, and OK for any other company?

Halls120 is absolutely correct... why is a 10% margin bad?

If you want your argument to be taken seriously, you have to justify why Exxon doesn't deserve that 10%. And given your obvious economic expertise... what is a good profit margin, PC12Fan?

8%? 5%? 2%?

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 12):
While the lump sum is indeed large, their return on profit wasn't out of line. Why is a 10% return on investment for Exxon bad, and OK for any other company?

Because I said so.

Signed,
PC12Fan
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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PC12Fan
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:19 am

Sorry that I feel this way guys, but it bothers me because circumstances are different than they were last year. No hurricanes, no shortages, profits that exceed the GNP of most countries in the world... it just bother me, that's all.

I guess the honorable thing to do here is request deletion of the post for a flame bait violation?

Regards
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
andessmf
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 12):
Why is a 10% return on investment for Exxon bad, and OK for any other company?

For my two cents, in construction, anytime you give an estimate for how much the work will cost, YOU ADD A LINE WITH A 10% PROFIT BUILT IN. I've seen it go up to 20% in construction. And I believe that Microsoft goes to 70%.
 
PC12Fan
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):

My first one of those! I never had one in my previous A.net life.

And yes, Johan is aware of that.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
sw733
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 16):
And I believe that Microsoft goes to 70%.

Doesn't surprise me...I mean, Office can't possibly cost $400 a pop to design, produce, and market...
 
andessmf
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:55 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 18):
Office can't possibly cost $400 a pop to design, produce, and market...

How many office suites sold every year X $200 average?

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor...asp?Page=ProfitMargins&Symbol=MSFT

(gross margin of 79.4%)
 
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scbriml
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 11):
But we are talking about almost 40 - say it with me - billion dollars, and there are two reasons that can explain it all. Greed and share holders dividends.

How is this greed? If Exxon charged more for their products than their competitors, they'd be out of business PDQ. Exxon's profit margin is entirely reasonable.

All the oil major CEO's were called in front of congress last year to "justify" their profits in 2005. What was the outcome of that? Nothing!

Your still missing the whole point - everything for the oil majors is on a huge scale. A new field will cost anything from $5b upwards to develop. Do you have any idea how much a new, US based, refinery would cost (if anyone would actually let one be built)?

Have you investigated what Exxon's capital budget is for 2007? Try and look it up (I'd be surprised if it isn't on their website). Sit down before you start.
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scbriml
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:04 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 15):
I guess the honorable thing to do here is request deletion of the post for a flame bait violation?

There's certainly no need to do that.

You raised a valid question. I've tried to explain to you that oil profits are not unreasonable (simply of a very large scale), and that the oil majors invest huge amounts of money every year trying to maintain production levels. That costs lots and lots of $$$s.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
PC12Fan
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 21):
You raised a valid question. I've tried to explain to you that oil profits are not unreasonable, and that the oil majors invest huge amounts of money every year trying to maintain production levels.

Let me ask you this then. Historically, have EXXON's (and all of big oil for that matter) profit margins averaged the same year after year? (trying to see if the numbers are in line with inflation, if you will)

Regards
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
MDorBust
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Thread starter):
I don't see how they can defend themselves this time.



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
Defend themselves from what?

 checkmark 
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:37 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 22):
Historically, have EXXON's (and all of big oil for that matter) profit margins averaged the same year after year?

So now it's not that you're against profits - you're against companies making a higher profit one year vs. the previous one?  sarcastic 

Face it - you can't defend your position.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
PC12Fan
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 24):
So now it's not that you're against profits - you're against companies making a higher profit one year vs. the previous one?

Face it - you can't defend your position.

Hardly. I am big enough to admit when I'm wrong and I'm trying to learn. If the numbers are historically averaging the same, then I'll have my crow.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
halls120
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:55 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 25):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 24):So now it's not that you're against profits - you're against companies making a higher profit one year vs. the previous one?

Face it - you can't defend your position.
Hardly. I am big enough to admit when I'm wrong and I'm trying to learn. If the numbers are historically averaging the same, then I'll have my crow.

Until someone comes up with Exxon's historical numbers, how about these numbers from a 2005 Forbes magazine article:

Quote:
HereÕs a comparison of the most recent quarterly profits against sales for these companies:

--Coca-Cola: 27.6% of revenue
--William Wrigley Jr.: 15.6% of revenue
--Wells Fargo: 20% of revenue
--Altria: 10.7% of revenue
--Kimberly-Clark: 10.5% of revenue
--Anheuser-Busch: 15.1% of revenue
--Exxon Mobil: 9.8% of revenue

In fact, in the U.S., the industry average profit margin is 7.9%. Why, then is there no grumbling from Congress about Coca-Cola's substantial profits, or Wells Fargo's 20% profit margin?

I'll ask the question again. Yes, in the aggregate, Exxon's profits are significant. But compared to other companies, how can you complain about their profit margin of 10.5%? It doesn't seem all that excessive in comparison to other companies.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AirCop
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:03 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 25):
, then I'll have my crow.

Would you like that fried or BBQ?

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 26):
But compared to other companies, how can you complain about their profit margin of 10.5%?

Not excessive, just the amount of dollars involved makes it look huge.
 
sw733
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 19):
How many office suites sold every year X $200 average?

Heck, $200...that sounds like a steal for Microsoft Office to me...cdw.com is quoting $359.99 for 2007 with a 1 PC open business license

Microsoft is ridiculous...so are those profit numbers you quote! I have to agree with you 100% on this one, AndesSMF

[Edited 2007-02-01 20:21:20]
 
PC12Fan
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 27):
Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 25):
, then I'll have my crow.

Would you like that fried or BBQ?

Well, after reading this article,

http://www.seic.com/advisors/documents/Big_Bad_Oil.pdf

I think I'll have my crow baked with a side of hollandaise sauce, with green beans. Oooo, and a glass of white wine too.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 27):
Not excessive, just the amount of dollars involved makes it look huge.

There in lies the root problem.

Regards
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
sw733
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 29):
There in lies the root problem.

We're a ridiculously oil hungry planet, and the US/Canada are right on top of consumption with China. We spend the most, so they make the most...no if's, and's, or but's around it. In Namibia, the oil companies don't make as much money because Namibians don't spend as much money, but I wouldn't be surprised if the profit margin itself were pretty much the same, if not a little higher.
 
galapagapop
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:17 pm

10% is good for a business and far from excessive, I think to people it just comes to a shock that something that costs them $2.40 a gallon or whatever is that far reaching and used.
 
A332
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:26 am

I still hate the fact that the price increases significantly faster than it decreases, even though the price of crude changes equally in either direction...

I mean... if gasoline is 80 cents per litre with crude @ $58... how can it only drop to 79 cents @ $56 but soar to 85 cents @ $60 crude...?

The math is off, in my opinion... this is nothing more than an annoyance rant on my part.
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
F9Animal
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Sat Feb 03, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 5):
$2.10 a gallon in northern VA, a dime cheaper south of Richmond.

$2.45 a gallon out here.

I think it is out of control as far as the price is concerned. But, I also see the need and urgency to get another form of energy. All they are doing is profiting themselves out of jobs quicker.

Do you think Exxon is supporting lower oil prices?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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Aaron747
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 2):
People like PC12fan believe that they have a constitutional right to cheap gasoline. It's their birthright.

no, but that would certainly apply to others who have commented on this in other threads.  checkmark 

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 11):
But we are talking about almost 40 - say it with me - billion dollars, and there are two reasons that can explain it all.

this is so incredibly misguided. what do you think they're in the business for? twiddling thumbs? epicurian weekend siesta in the middle east? this is straight-up economics, nothing else. you want to go after someone for gouging? try defense contractors.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
PC12Fan
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:07 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 34):

Did you read the entire post? Evidently not because you would have seen that I now understand why. But it is still an insane amount of money.
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
baroque
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:29 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
Still think you're being ripped off? You shouldn't, because you're not.

Yep, easy way to halve their profits, halve your consumption of oil.

Daily production of oil only was about 2.6 million b/d. Assume an average daily barrel cost for new production of $15,000 per daily barrel. That gives about $390 billion investment to replace that oil.

So if you made $390 million investment now, what sort of return would you expect? Well, well, well, at 10% what do we have?

And bear in mind that quite a bit of their profit comes from gas, not included in that calculation, not to mention refineries and a few other things.

Looks as if it might all be on the cheap!
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:29 am

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 29):
Well, after reading this article,

http://www.seic.com/advisors/documents/Big_Bad_Oil.pdf

I think I'll have my crow baked with a side of hollandaise sauce, with green beans. Oooo, and a glass of white wine too

 bigthumbsup 

I'm a big fan of people who are willing to do the research, and even more so of those who admit that perhaps they didn't have all the facts.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
PC12Fan
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 37):

Thank you sir.

Like I said before, it's just the amount that really gets your attention. Then I had another thought. If EXXON didn't take the measures to achieve a 10% or so profit margin, it's quite possible that they would have lost that amount instead of making it in profit. I'm still not a fan of big oil, but I at least understand it better.  Wink
Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
 
David L
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 37):
I'm a big fan of people who are willing to do the research, and even more so of those who admit that perhaps they didn't have all the facts.

 checkmark  ... unlike certain others who'd continue to drag this thread on for another week.  biggrin 
 
StarAC17
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Sat Feb 03, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting A332 (Reply 32):
I mean... if gasoline is 80 cents per litre with crude @ $58... how can it only drop to 79 cents @ $56 but soar to 85 cents @ $60 crude...?

The math is off, in my opinion... this is nothing more than an annoyance rant on my part.

This is a speculation process by the oil company to ensure that they aren't losing money. If the price starts to climb it goes up at the pump a lot more because the individual gas station want to make sure that they have enough money to buy more gas at the higher price and when it starts going down it happens slower because of the instability of the market and the anticipation that the price might come back up.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Sat Feb 03, 2007 11:37 pm

Gas was down to nearly $1.80 in Kalamazoo, MI before Bush mentioned cutting gas consumption in his last speech. Now, 2 weeks later, it's back up around $2.30.  Yeah sure  banghead 
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:46 am

Then there is the Elephant Man - AKA Lee Raymond former Exxon-Mobil CEO who got the $400 Million Golden parachute when he retired

 
sw733
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:06 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 42):
Then there is the Elephant Man - AKA Lee Raymond former Exxon-Mobil CEO who got the $400 Million Golden parachute when he retired

Give him a break, that's still only $2 per chin...thats a BAD ratio  Wink
 
L-188
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RE: No Defense This Time - Exxon Posts Record Profits

Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:19 am

And then there is the 5 Billion they owe Alaska Fisherman for Exxon Valdez.

They just got the 9th Circut to reduce that to 3.5 Bil, but are appealing to get it reduced to 40 milion. Fisherman of course are trying to get that reduction voided on appeal.

What a load of horseshit, pay the 5 Billion.

At then we have Point Mac. Which was a gas field in Alaska that they have refused to developed in accordance with their lease with the state for the past 20 years. Frank the Bank finally got the balls to pull the lease about a month before he left office. Exxon now has at least 4 lawsuits against the state claiming they where wronged.

And then we have their stalling on the Pipeline deal, because they knew if its gets built they have to develop Pt. Mac. And of course they want to use a different route then the state and the other two producers want. So if they can kill that route, they will eventually get their own.

Exxon as a company are the scum of the earth.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.

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