copaair737
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A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:44 am

As we've been seeing lately, Venezuela and their anti-American dictator Hugo Chavez have been buddying up with Ahmedinejad from Iran. Meetings between the two have become commonplace.
I fear this will happen; IF Iran develops a nuclear weapon, and thats a big "if", does anyone else feel they could put the nukes in Venezuela and point them at the US?
Chavez seems nutty enough to pull something like that, and Iran seems hellbent on killing Americans. Sounds plausible to me.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:54 am

Will Venezuela's neighbors allow Cha-Cha Chavez to get that far?

Mark
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TedTAce
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 1):
Will Venezuela's neighbors allow Cha-Cha Chavez to get that far?

Let's hope the answer is  no 

Elsewise Bubba Bush will have to draft to get troops deployed there.
This space intentionally left blank
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Thread starter):
fear this will happen; IF Iran develops a nuclear weapon, and thats a big "if", does anyone else feel they could put the nukes in Venezuela and point them at the US?

It was tried once in Cuba and you know how that came out. I don't think that the people of Latin America and the Caribbean would allow this, as generally they are peace loving people and don't want to cause anyone harm, they have their own problems with poverty etc to deal with and I am sure as a Bajan that we would not be very happy
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copaair737
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 3):

It was tried once in Cuba and you know how that came out. I don't think that the people of Latin America and the Caribbean would allow this, as generally they are peace loving people and don't want to cause anyone harm, they have their own problems with poverty etc to deal with and I am sure as a Bajan that we would not be very happy

He has a lot of socialist/communist allies down there though. Something Castro really didn't have. He's got that Morales guy in Bolivia, the Sandanistas in Nicaragua, etc.
I just think Ahmedinejad and Chavez are crazy enough to concoct a scheme such as that. They both hate America, and Venezuela is just a short hop away for a missile.
Scary IMHO.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:29 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Thread starter):
does anyone else feel they could put the nukes in Venezuela and point them at the US?

Well, for starters it's prohibited by Treaty of Tlatelolco which Venezuela signed. The treaty is supported by a UN Resolution and also signed by the big five nuclear powers.

Nukes in Venezuela, from any source, would absolutely prompt a response by the US, the UN, and pretty much all of Latin America. Chavez may be crazy, but I don't think he's stupid. So, no, that's not going to happen.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 5):
Treaty of Tlatelolco which Venezuela signed

Do you think Cha-Cha cares about "imperialistic" treaties?

Mark
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yowza
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:32 am

Impossible. Never gonna happen. Ever.

YOWza
 
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:50 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Thread starter):
Venezuela and their anti-American dictator Hugo Chavez have been buddying up with Ahmedinejad from Iran.

beside the point that Iran is developing nuclear energy for CIVILIAN use and is not on the bomb, whenever this is permanently hammered into people by the US government and some others, the MAIN POINT is this : in spite of rethorics the Iranian economy is NOT socialist but capitalist and the theocratic zealots in Tehran are economic and fiscal conseratives, miles away from communism.
-
 
Pope
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:27 am

Chavez's days in power can be counted on one hand the day he points a nuclear weapon at the US.

The guy is a nut. Let him rant and rave about the devil in the US because he's harmless. For all the sh*t he talks about the US and Bush, his oil still flows to the US. He's just full of hot air.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
andessmf
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:37 am

I see it being completely plausible. Most LatAm countries don't have the means to respond to Chavez getting a weapon, they'll just sit and wait for the US to do something about. And in the meantime he will have his apologists justifying this, much as they do with Iran.

Quoting Pope (Reply 9):
Let him rant and rave about the devil in the US because he's harmless.

That remains to be seen. Dangerous people like him are not created overnight. It takes years for their plans to come to fruition. And by the time the actual problem is realized by the rest of the world, you have narrowed down how many solutions there are to the problem.

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 5):
Nukes in Venezuela, from any source, would absolutely prompt a response by the US, the UN, and pretty much all of Latin America.

Scratch out the UN and LatAm and you'll have the answer as to who will have to deal with the problem.
 
copaair737
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 10):

Scratch out the UN and LatAm and you'll have the answer as to who will have to deal with the problem.

As usual. People complain about the US being the "World's Policeman" but then they are right there whenever some source of evil comes to power, asking us to do something about it.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 10):
That remains to be seen. Dangerous people like him are not created overnight. It takes years for their plans to come to fruition. And by the time the actual problem is realized by the rest of the world, you have narrowed down how many solutions there are to the problem.

His rants were a good laugh. You couldn't take him seriously. Until of course, this Iranian leader started coming over and fraternizing. This guy's stated he's for the destruction of the US and Israel, and he's developing enriched Uranium. Combine this with a locale that is close enough to launch short-range nuclear weapons from to hit the US, and, I think there is a problem.
Seems harmless to me.  sarcastic 

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
Pope
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 11):
As usual. People complain about the US being the "World's Policeman" but then they are right there whenever some source of evil comes to power, asking us to do something about it.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Spot on. The US is the evil empire, unless of course, the world is unwilling to act. Look at Bosnia and Somalia to name just two places where the world was unwilling to act until the US took the lead. The EU in particular wants it both ways. They want to criticize the US for not acting and then hide behind our skirt when we do.

I've said it time and time again. If the rest of the world doesn't want the US to be the world's policeman, then someone needs to step up. Who's that going to be? France? Germany? Italy? Spain?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
copaair737
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:36 am

I'm just sick of everytime there is a huge disaster somewhere in the world, we are always expected to give cash and donate things. I say screw that.
Classic example is Indonesia after the '04 Tsunami. That place was leveled, and they came crawling out begging us for money and aid, to which we gave it to them.
My problem lies in that a few years earlier, after 9/11, they were the same people dancing and celebrating in the streets that the "Great Satan" had just been smacked in the mouth.
Screw them.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
copaair737
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezu

Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:42 am

double post

filler

filler

-Copa

[Edited 2007-02-02 23:44:38]
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
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yowza
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:44 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 12):
Look at Bosnia and Somalia

Actually the US did not exactly finish up in Somalia did they?

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 13):
hey were the same people dancing and celebrating

So Fox news shows a pack of idiots dancing and your going to paint every single citizen in Indonesia with that bursh? Come on.

I do agree that not enough people appreciate the good things the US does. But by the same token doing good things does not cancel out the less noble ventures and there are plenty of those.

YOWza
 
Derico
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 10):
Scratch out the UN and LatAm and you'll have the answer as to who will have to deal with the problem.

Actually on this you might be wrong. I know most people here are ignorant of this fact, but Argentina-Iran relations are extremely rough, perhaps worse than United States-Iran relations. Any Iranian moves in South America would prompt a tough response from Buenos Aires.

To the point where, for example, president Kirchner will meet with Venezuelan Jews, something one can't say is exactly in Chavez's or Iran's to do list.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
copaair737
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:32 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 15):
So Fox news shows a pack of idiots dancing and your going to paint every single citizen in Indonesia with that bursh? Come on.

The majority IMO probably do hate America.
And I don't get all my info from "Fox News". Nice try though.
Its ridiculous we help out people who celebrate when we have similar events happen to us.
Ridiculous.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:59 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 15):
Actually the US did not exactly finish up in Somalia did they?

Have a suggestion. let the US pull all of its' troops from all around the world and let the world get on with destroying itself
Next close the Canada/US border and only us stuff made in the US
Let the US become an isolated state as they were in the 30'S
I am very worried about this Iran/Venezuela thing as I have a feeling that it is going to affect the whole Caribbean, they are already the idiots in Barbados asking for the separation of Barbados from the US/Canada and Britain. Mr. Chavez is handing out money in the Caribbean like it is going out of style. a lot of the business community is worried
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 13):
Indonesia after the '04 Tsunami. That place was leveled,

"that place" ? rubbish, people in most of Indonesia took note of the Tsunami on TV, per radio and in the newspapers. The area concerned is less than 10% of the area and less than 5% of the population of that country.
-

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 13):
after 9/11, they were the same people dancing and celebrating in the streets that the "Great Satan"

"they" ? you mean that all 210 mio. Indonesians were "dancing+celebrating" ? Strange is that US media reported half the world as "celebrating" while European media reported about some people in some places. Strange is that on CNN, the same woman distributed sweets to children in Beirut, Jerusalem and Cairo but she was never asked why, the CNN reporter just concluded that it "obviously" was in happiness about what had happened in New York.
-

Quoting Pope (Reply 12):
Look at Bosnia where the world was unwilling to act until the US took the lead.

the lead was taken by Algeria which sent military advisors to the Bosnians to help them persevere
-

Quoting Pope (Reply 12):
The US is the evil empire, unless of course, the world is unwilling to act

you canNOT have it both ways. You canNOT be in the strongest superpower on earth on one side, and expect that nobody DISagrees. Only to mention the criticizm and the costs and conveniently ignore the influence and the resulting economic advantages is hyprocritical
-

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 17):
The majority IMO probably do hate America.

the majority of WHAT exactly does hate "America" ? you mean the media of "el-Qaeda International (Indonesia) Inc " ?
-

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 18):
already the idiots in Barbados asking for the separation of Barbados from the US/Canada and Britain

what do some people on Barbados want exactly ? I mean, Barbados is an independent country, and a member of the "Commonwealth of Nations". It canNOT separate from the USA as it IS separate from the USA. It however might become a republic (QEII no longer head-of-state), and it may decide to get out of the commonwealth. I am sure that a billion people in the Commonwealth will break out in tears about that loss !  laughing 
-
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:46 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 19):
It canNOT separate from the USA as it IS separate from the USA. It however might become a republic (QEII no longer head-of-state), and it may decide to get out of the commonwealth. I am sure that

You misunderstood me they want to break off diplomatic ties with the US Canada and Britain as they see them as imperialist, and for that matter they want no part of Europe either as they see them as the White countries. They are in the miniority , but they are the type that want their way at all costs, most Bajans black and white seem to think they are nuts, but the way that Chavez is throwing his money around to buy people, they seem to be getting their voice herd and are now claiming that Chavez is the saviour of the Caribbean. I told one of them the other day to think before he opens his mouth and says something stupid, an asked him if he wanted everything taken over by the Government and wanted the tourist trade to stop. His answer was it would not matter as Chavez would give them the money to support the country. So you see what I am talking about?
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Avianca
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Thread starter):
As we've been seeing lately, Venezuela and their anti-American dictator Hugo Chavez have been buddying up with Ahmedinejad from Iran. Meetings between the two have become commonplace.

I am all other than Chavista, but sorry Chavez is not a dictator.... the guys were so stupid and re-elected him 2 month ago with over 60% of votes...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezu

Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 20):
they want to break off diplomatic ties with the US Canada and Britain as they see them as imperialist, and for that matter they want no part of Europe either as they see them as the White countries. So you see what I am talking about?

I fear YES, but the matter is perfectly crazy........
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 21):
but sorry Chavez is not a dictator

What is he then? I am only asking from your point of view as you live there. I see him as a threat to the whole of the Caribbean and Latin America, I know what is going on here in BGI and I fear for my country.
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Avianca
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:41 am

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 23):
What is he then? I am only asking from your point of view as you live there. I see him as a threat to the whole of the Caribbean and Latin America, I know what is going on here in BGI and I fear for my country.

He is an a.....e, things are not going good down here in Venezuela thank you to him..... but as mentiond before a big part of the venezuleans elected him... at least I am only an expat here and can leave the country when things are worser.... anyway its sad to see Venezuela in such a shape...
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 24):
at least I am only an expat here and can leave the country when things are

Where are you from? I love Venezeula and had some great times in Caracas, mind you that was a long time ago. Used to go there once a month to visit a girlfriend, lost track of her over the years
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Duff44
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 9):
For all the sh*t he talks about the US and Bush, his oil still flows to the US

Exactly... why would he threaten his biggest customer (I think)? Let him flap his gums all he wants, it's all hot air.
I'll rassle ya for a bowl of bacon!
 
Avianca
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 25):
Where are you from?

half colombian and half german.... the country (venezuela) is really great but the situation....
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting Duff44 (Reply 26):
Exactly... why would he threaten his biggest customer (I think)? Let him flap his gums all he wants, it's all hot air.

China would buy his oil in a minute, that's the problem
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MaidensGator
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:55 am

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 18):

Next close the Canada/US border and only us stuff made in the US

That would probably hurt Canada worse than the US...

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 13):
Classic example is Indonesia after the '04 Tsunami. That place was leveled, and they came crawling out begging us for money and aid, to which we gave it to them.

The best were the ones that actually blamed the US for causing the tsunami...

Quoting Avianca (Reply 21):
I am all other than Chavista, but sorry Chavez is not a dictator.... the guys were so stupid and re-elected him 2 month ago with over 60% of votes.

Hitler was elected... I think Chavez is close, especially after the Venezuelan National Assembly gave him the power to legislate by decree for the next 18 months...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
cedars747
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:24 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 11):
As usual. People complain about the US being the "World's Policeman" but then they are right there whenever some source of evil comes to power, asking us to do something about it.

The problem is that you forget to mention who is the creator of these sources of evil

Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
yhmfan
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 29):
That would probably hurt Canada worse than the US...

There is a reason countries trade with each other and it is because it is mutually beneficial to both countries.

If you extrapolate the same argument about every trading partner the US has (With few exceptions, the US is always the much bigger partner), the US will become a closed economy. Just imagine a world where the United States is not party to any international trade. That is precisely what the anti-USA forces are seeking.
And that is something that would be devastating to the US as well as to the rest of the world.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:43 pm

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 23):
but sorry Chavez is not a dictator
--
What is he then? I am only asking

-
a "dictator-in-the-making" or a "not-yet-dictator" ! he in fact still has a chance NOT to become a dictator, but all info available now hints otherwise. This info in a way was around a bit longer, and for many people conclusive, except to optimism-addicts like me who still maintain hope in the common-sense of virtually everybody. If Chavez, to give you one example, stops looking at Cuba as inspiration but gives a closer look to Iran, then he might see that behind the mad speeches of Ahmedinejad is a country with a capitalist economic structure, in a way in the mould of the "social market-economy" of German professor Schiller and a kind of "Islamic" social-democracy along the lines of the BadGodesberger-Program of Kurt Schuhmacher (SDP). If so, he will stop nationalisations after the take-over of some dominating foreign companies and will NOT become president-for-life, but just make sure that he CAN be a candidate as many times as he likes it.
-
He may however rather be on the way to be a re-make of Benito Mussolini or Nicolae Ceaucescu, and it looks like that !
-

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 29):
The best were the ones that actually blamed the US for causing the tsunami...

"They" may have been "the best", but how many persons were that ? Exact numbers please, if possible with a written confession in three copies per person, deposited in the Ministry of the Interior in Jakarta !  wave  wink  yes 
-

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 29):
Hitler was elected...

just for the record, he was NOT . Why not ? Because in that crucial election in 1933, he did NOT get a majority. His party, the NSDAP, in a parliament in which more than a dozen parties were represented, was the largest party, and so he was nominated to form a coalition with the German National Party and some smaller ones. He in 1934 through his control of the Interior Ministry expelled all the other parties, dissolved the parliament (emergency law) and, having been "imperial chancellor" (Reichskanzler) before, took over the role of the head-of-state but not naming himself as state-president (as Marshal Hindenburg before him) but "leader of the German Empire" (Fuehrer des Deutschen Reichs). So that the comparison is wrong in so far as Mr Chavez really HAD a majority in the presidential elections.
-
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:56 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 32):
He may however rather be on the way to be a re-make of Benito Mussolini or Nicolae Ceaucescu, and it looks like that !

Then he should have a close look at the ends of both.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:24 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 33):
a close look at the ends of both.

I actually had THAT in mind !  yes 
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:43 pm

I don't think this alliance will go far. Chavez may have a longer shelf life, but Ahmeda3inabed is seeing his oil revenue slide thanks to the Saudis, and it looks like the price of oil will go down more. That means that the extra cash his has been able to "bride" the people with is drying up. His popularity is already waning big time and the Iranians will throw him out. (Some of my own thoughts there, plus a little input from people at the Iran pavillion, which was huge by the way, I met at Fitur - the tourism fair in Madrid last week.) The average Iranian (not the nutters CNN loves to show) does not want nukes.
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:21 pm

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 35):
but Ahmeda3inabed is seeing his oil revenue

I know quite a few Iranians here in Canada, as a matter of fact a Doctor and his wife live in the building and he and I are good friends and he says that it is only a matter of time before before he gets booted out as the people are fed up with him, I suggest that we watch the situation there and let the people decide what to do with him. Venezuela is the frightening one as they are too close to home. I heard a little snippet the other day from one of my Socialist friends that I have here on the island, he and I have agreed a long time ago not to talk politics, as it gets both of us mad at each other and we have known each other for 40 years. But he said that he heard from a friend of his in Venezuela that the President of Iran is using Chavez to get his style of Islam into South America. Now whether that is true or not only time will tell, but what he said is worrying him is the fact that although he would like to see SA become a socialist continent, he wants to have free enterprise. Chavez is hell bent on making everything Government controlled and taking away the rights of people to have their say. He also said that Chavez is saying, not in public that he wants to control the country as if it were his person playground. Now I am only quoting a friend of mine, who is in with all the top socialists in the area, so I can't confirm or deny any of this. ME AV FAN I put this is for you to help you understand what is going on in this part of the world
PanAmOldDC8
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 35):
His popularity is already waning big time and

"his popularity" ?? he never has been popular. He right for THIS reason tried to get some popularity by "flamboyant" speeches. He was not elected due to popularity but because people wanted to give a kick to Mr Rafsanjani, the only "authorized" candidate in the "elections" .
-

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 36):
to help you understand what is going on in this part of the world

and then, people from "the Americas" get round and say that Arabs and Swiss and French (etc) are weird ?!  laughing  laughing 
-
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:47 am

Big demonstration today in favour of Chavez, all chanting "Gringos out"
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andessmf
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 37):
He was not elected due to popularity but because people wanted to give a kick to Mr Rafsanjani, the only "authorized" candidate in the "elections" .

Forgive me for expressing skepticism about 'the will of the people' in Iranian politics. But we do agree that Ahamdishidfishg is not that popular and will continue on his way down.

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 38):
Big demonstration today in favour of Chavez, all chanting "Gringos out"

Easier for Chavez to blame the 'gringos' for all the problems he has caused.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:14 am

Just a thought - I wonder how many people who misspell Ahmedinejad do it 'cause they can't spell it, and how many do it out of disrespect?

I wonder what the mullahs in Iran think about this budding alliance. Venezuela is a Catholic country, after all.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
Avianca
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 40):
Venezuela is a Catholic country,

with a lot of nice girls that are open minded ..... and show what they have  Big grin
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
andessmf
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 40):
and how many do it out of disrespect?

Can't spell it well, but mostly out of disrespect.

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 40):
I wonder what the mullahs in Iran think about this budding alliance

Iraq is Shiite, Syria is Sunni. They seem not to have a problem with that alliance. After all, as much as we want to think this conflict is about religion, it is much more about POWER, using religion to justify the means to achieve it.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:35 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 42):
Iraq is Shiite, Syria is Sunni. They seem not to have a problem with that alliance.

To be sure, but I would guess that the religious leaders would be a lot more comfortable with a Shii-Sunni alliance, within Islam, than an alliance between an Islamic and a Christian country.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
andessmf
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 43):
but I would guess that the religious leaders would be a lot more comfortable with a Shii-Sunni alliance, within Islam,

Tell that to the people of Iraq.
 
Yellowstone
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:44 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 44):
Tell that to the people of Iraq.

The fighting in Iraq is more about geopolitical issues than religious disagreements. If there wasn't a history of Sunni oppression of Shias, and if there wasn't a crop of insurgent leaders willing to exploit theological differences for their own political gain, the violence wouldn't be nearly as bad. What I'm talking about is a purely theological/cultural tension between "fundamentalist" Islam and Catholicism.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
Pope
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:53 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 19):
the lead was taken by Algeria which sent military advisors to the Bosnians to help them persevere

Please don't be ridiculous. The rest of the world did not follow the Algerians into Bosnia - the notion is laughable. I can assure you that if the US had not acted, the EU would not. This genocide was going on within 1 day's drive from most major European capitals for years and the Europeans turned a blind eye. The EU lacks the intestinal fortitude to act against even the most ergegious violation of human rights no matter where it occurs. As I said above, the EU bitches all the time, but love to hide behind the US's skirt.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 19):
you canNOT have it both ways. You canNOT be in the strongest superpower on earth on one side, and expect that nobody DISagrees. Only to mention the criticizm and the costs and conveniently ignore the influence and the resulting economic advantages is hyprocritical
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I have not problem with anyone complaining about anything. Buth the US has nothing to apologize about being a superpower. The fact that it is the only one is only a result of other nations not willing to step up. Where is the EU leadership on Iran? Where is the EU leadership about the ongoing genocides in Africa? Where is the EU when it comes to the nuclear proliferation in the Korean peninsula? or the Asia subcontinent? Where is the EU when it comes to Hezbollah? He who is silent is said to consent.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 15):
Actually the US did not exactly finish up in Somalia did they?

You're right. We absolutely did not finish what we started. But let me ask you this. If the mission was to allow relief supplies to get to starving people and then people attack you for doing that - why stay? Perfect scenario of damned if we do, damned if we don't. If the US doesn't go into Somalia was anyone else going to take the leadership position and act? Or would it have been better to just allow the starvation to continue?

It's easy to stay safe when you sit on the sidelines.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:35 pm

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 43):
a Shii-Sunni alliance, within Islam, than an alliance between an Islamic and a Christian country.

while Iran is "Islamic" by definition and by political structure, Syria and Venezuela are NOT countries defined by religion. Any alliance between Iran and those two countries therefore is on the state-level and NOT about religious leaders.
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Quoting Pope (Reply 46):
the lead was taken by Algeria which sent military advisors to the Bosnians to help them persevere
--
Please don't be ridiculous. The rest of the world did not follow the Algerians into Bosnia - the notion is laughable. I can assure you that if the US had not acted, the EU would not. This genocide was going on within 1 day's drive from most major European capitals for years and the Europeans turned a blind eye. The EU lacks the intestinal fortitude to act against even the most ergegious violation of human rights no matter where it occurs. As I said above, the EU bitches all the time, but love to hide behind the US's skirt.

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the Bosnians could withstand and persevere sufficiently long thanks to Algerian military advisors, as simple as that. In the affairs of former Yugoslavia, France was pro-Serbian and Britain pro-Croatian/Bosnian/Shkipetar, and it was similar with most other West European countries. To blame the E.U. for that "split" is ridiculous. In case of the Kosovo it was the U.K. which originally took the lead and managed to convince the USA to get in also. The USA before that for many month was "neutral". And if you DISlike the point that the U.K. several times in the past 17 years managed to bring the USA onto its side and into action, you can write to: Mr Tony Blair, 10 Downing Street, London, U.K. ; and complain accordingly.
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Quoting Pope (Reply 46):
Buth the US has nothing to apologize about being a superpower.

you got it completely wrong again. The point is that if you are in charge, and that IS the case with the USA, there will ALWAYS be somebody who disagrees and who criticizes your doings. Should all managers in the world apologize for being managers ? Should they be frustrated that THEY are under criticizm and NOT the doormen ? It is the same as it is in cities, where people often complain that there are drug-addicts from smaller towns and from villages widely around, but conveniently forget that family members of those addicts come shopping to the city and have bank-accounts in the city.

Quoting Pope (Reply 46):
But let me ask you this. If the mission was to allow relief supplies to get to starving people and then people attack you for doing that - why stay?

to establish law and order, so that the relief supplies would arrive at the needy
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Quoting Pope (Reply 46):
If the US doesn't go into Somalia was anyone else going to take the leadership position and act?

Ethiopia now HAS taken the leadership position and HAS acted
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MaidensGator
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezu

Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:58 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 32):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 29):
Hitler was elected...

just for the record, he was NOT . Why not ? Because in that crucial election in 1933, he did NOT get a majority. His party, the NSDAP, in a parliament in which more than a dozen parties were represented, was the largest party, and so he was nominated to form a coalition with the German National Party and some smaller ones. He in 1934 through his control of the Interior Ministry expelled all the other parties, dissolved the parliament (emergency law) and, having been "imperial chancellor" (Reichskanzler) before, took over the role of the head-of-state but not naming himself as state-president (as Marshal Hindenburg before him) but "leader of the German Empire" (Fuehrer des Deutschen Reichs). So that the comparison is wrong in so far as Mr Chavez really HAD a majority in the presidential elections.

You make a valid point. My point was that Hitler, considered by most historians to have been a dictator, originally came to power through an election. Many elected world leaders assume power without a majority, especially in countries with 3 or more viable political parties.


Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 47):
Syria and Venezuela are NOT countries defined by religion.

Venezuela has, as a percentage of population, more Roman Catholics than Iran has Shi'a Muslims. While the Venezuelan government may not officially be religion based, the Catholic church wields great power in that country.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: A Thought I've Been Having RE: Iran And Venezuela

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:27 pm

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 48):
Venezuela has, as a percentage of population, more Roman Catholics than Iran has Shi'a Muslims. While the Venezuelan government may not officially be religion based, the Catholic church wields great power in that country.

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this in a way makes Syria "the odd man out" as the power in Syria is in the hands of a family-clan out of a 7% percent religious minority, and where also other minorities are very important in political affairs.

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