LHMark
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Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:04 pm

http://www.rnews.com/Story_2004.cfm?...60&rnews_story_type=18&category=10
Aahh, the sweet smell of progress, right?

[Edited 2007-02-05 05:15:11]

[Edited 2007-02-05 05:16:52]
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
TransWorldSTL
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:49 pm

As convenient as Wal*Mart Supercenters seem to be, they don't exactly sell the freshest of groceries, in my observations..

Like the Tyson everything that's been shipped all over the country..


Last week, while inside a local WalMart at 2am buying a magazine and pens, I saw a worker find a package of ground beef laying on a shelf. I decided to follow him to see what he did with it, knowing that the meat had probably been sitting there for most of the day (only midnight crews really sweep the store of out-of-place items)... He walked right over to the grocery section, and placed it with the other packaged meats. I notified him that the meat was surely bad, to which he replied "no, it's still good" and walked away..

I would never buy meat products, or fruits/veggies/etc from WalMart. I don't quite understand why people would.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:53 pm

This scares me. And hits home because I work in the same kind of store. We have been in the same spot for 70 years and most of our customers are regulars who have been coming here for years. And wal*mart is building a supercenter here in town.. Bastards.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
174thfwff
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:54 pm

What if a Wegmans or Kroger's built there in place of a super Walmart? Would that be okay then? It's tough luck for that guy, but if he did have a superior service, better quality of food, etc then he wouldn't have shut down.
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
flight152
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:57 pm

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 3):
What if a Wegmans or Kroger's built there in place of a super Walmart?

Difference being at least with Wegmans, it's a family run buisness that treats it's employee's excellent, has ultra clean stores, and very fresh products. For that reason, I will gladly pay extra for shopping in Wegmans; at least that's how I feel.
 
Cadet57
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:58 pm

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 3):
What if a Wegmans or Kroger's built there in place of a super Walmart? Would that be okay then? It's tough luck for that guy, but if he did have a superior service, better quality of food, etc then he wouldn't have shut down

How can a can of Cambels soup at walmart for 84 cents compete with the small store for 99? It doesnt. Us small stores struggle enough to keep up with regular chains. We dont have the buying power they do so to remain competitice we have to keep our prices near the chains, but wal mart prices will kick our ass.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
GuitrThree
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:02 pm

Rubbish.

This happens all the time, and not just with Wal*Mart. Today I went to a small town in middle TN to watch the SB at a friends new house. I needed some Hamburger Buns, so on the way, I went to the locally owned HG Hills store that was there in December. It was closed! For good.

Why? About a mile or so down the road, a Publix opened this late summer, and a Kroger just opened.

So let's get off this train of Wal*Mart this and that. Do they close competition? Yes, of course they do, but so do many other chains. HG Hills is known for drab, high priced stores with OK service, but little selection, and they closed without a Wal*Mart being within 10 miles. In FACT, the closest W*M just closed and they moved farther north of this town to a new building.

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 1):
He walked right over to the grocery section, and placed it with the other packaged meats. I notified him that the meat was surely bad, to which he replied "no, it's still good" and walked away..

And this also ONLY happens at Wal*Mart?
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aa757first
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:03 pm

Quoting 174thfwff (Reply 3):
What if a Wegmans or Kroger's built there in place of a super Walmart? Would that be okay then? It's tough luck for that guy, but if he did have a superior service, better quality of food, etc then he wouldn't have shut down.

I think Kroger's are only down South, so I really don't know much about them. I do know Wegman's, however.

Wegman's is a higher-end grocery store and is rarely a threat to small businesses. I haven't heard of any casualties after they opened up in the area. Heck, even our "mid-level" grocery store didn't put anyone out of business when they moved into town, competing against two other supermarkets.

And you know know as well as I do that superior service and better quality matter little when competing against a Wal-Mart. Look at the little hardware stores that get shut down. They have sales reps that have been there two decades and can give you a thirty minute lecture on hammers, and they carry dozens of types. The Wal-Mart "associate" can tell you where they are and how much they cost and that's about it.

AAndrew
 
aa757first
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:05 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 6):
Rubbish.

You do have a point, to an extent. The difference being when a grocery store opens, it might put another grocery store out of business. When a Wal-Mart Supercenter opens up, it puts the local shoe store, grocery store, office supply store and pharmacy out of business, if you're lucky.

AAndrew
 
TransWorldSTL
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:12 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 6):
And this also ONLY happens at Wal*Mart?

Maybe not, but it sure as hell happens A LOT MORE at walmart, than anywhere else. Why? Because the workers are poorly trained compared to specialty stores.
If I went to a local grocery store and asked them how long I could keep meat out of the fridge before it went bad, I'd get a big lecture about how it depends on the conditions, etc etc... If I went to Walmart and asked the same question to whoever was near the grocery dept, I'd get "well, i'm not sure" or "its good until it smells bad".
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:15 pm

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 6):
Why? About a mile or so down the road, a Publix opened this late summer,

Publix is a nice store, pricey, but nice....

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 7):
think Kroger's are only down South

Kroger is huge, they're like the third largest retailer after Wal-Mart and Home Depot. I pulled up all the stores they run:

* Baker's (Nebraska)
* Cala Foods and Bell Markets (California)
* City Market (Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming)
* Dillons (Kansas)
* Food 4 Less and Foods Co. (California, Illinois, Indiana, Nevada)
* Fred Meyer (Alaska, Idaho, Oregon, Washington)
o Fred Meyer Marketplace (Alaska, Oregon, Washington)
o Fred Meyer Northwest Best (Oregon, Washington)
* Fred Meyer Jewelers
o Littman Jewelers
o Barclay Jewelers
o Fox's Jewelers
* Fry's Food and Drug (Arizona)
o Fry's Marketplace (Arizona)
* Gerbes (Missouri)
* Hilander (Illinois)
* JayC Food Stores (Indiana)
* King Soopers (Colorado, Wyoming)
* Kroger
o Kroger Marketplace (Ohio)
* KwikShop (Kansas, Nebraska)
* Loaf 'N Jug
* Owen's Market (Indiana)
* Pay Less Food Markets (Indiana)
* Quality Food Centers aka QFC (Oregon, Washington)
* Ralphs (California)
o Ralphs Marketplace (California)
* Smith's Food and Drug (Arizona, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming)
o Smith's Marketplace (Utah)
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:16 pm

Old, local chain stores just can't survive in a lot of places, and Wal-Mart isn't always the problem. Undersized stores is the reason a 90-year-old chain went under here in Portland a few years ago. Nearly all their locations were snapped up by either more upscale chains, or chains who could expand the properties. The economies of scale and revenue per square foot is an important factor in the industry. We only have two Wal-Marts here, and neither sell groceries.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:19 pm

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 9):
Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 6):
And this also ONLY happens at Wal*Mart?

Maybe not, but it sure as hell happens A LOT MORE at walmart, than anywhere else

Source?

Proof?

I don't get groceries at Wally World . . . but your statement is unfounded. You can't prove it. Neither can anyone else.

Speaking of your statement . . .

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 1):
I notified him that the meat was surely bad, to which he replied "no, it's still good" and walked away..

What did you do at this point, leave the meat, leave the store? Wasn't there a little voice in your head telling you to find a manager? Surely, even at 0200 someone is in charge. If you left how does this make you more morally correct than the moron that put the meat back on the shelf?

Wal-mart sucks in a lot of areas, but I'm here to tell you, if I need a widget and it costs US$.99 at Wally World and US$6.97 at Tommy Tentpegs widgets, I'm going to Wally World. Simply economics.

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 9):
If I went to a local grocery store and asked them how long I could keep meat out of the fridge before it went bad, I'd get a big lecture about how it depends on the conditions, etc etc... If I went to Walmart and asked the same question to whoever was near the grocery dept, I'd get "well, i'm not sure" or "its good until it smells bad".

Opinion on your part.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:27 pm

Here's the world's smallest violin...

Sometimes Walmart comes to town and drives inefficient competition like Dale's market out...sometimes an LCC comes to town and everyone enjoys the low fares but sticks with legacy carrier resulting in the LCC pulling out...
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
TransWorldSTL
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:34 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Source?

Proof?

I don't get groceries at Wally World . . . but your statement is unfounded. You can't prove it. Neither can anyone else.

Well, lets go sit at Walmart for 24 hours, then a local upscale grocer for 24 hours. I'm sure we'll see more red flags at Walmart than the grocer.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 1):
I notified him that the meat was surely bad, to which he replied "no, it's still good" and walked away..

What did you do at this point, leave the meat, leave the store? Wasn't there a little voice in your head telling you to find a manager? Surely, even at 0200 someone is in charge. If you left how does this make you more morally correct than the moron that put the meat back on the shelf?

Actually, I took it and reported it to the lady who rang up my stuff. She threw it away and said she'd right it up as damaged.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 9):
If I went to a local grocery store and asked them how long I could keep meat out of the fridge before it went bad, I'd get a big lecture about how it depends on the conditions, etc etc... If I went to Walmart and asked the same question to whoever was near the grocery dept, I'd get "well, i'm not sure" or "its good until it smells bad".

Opinion on your part.

No, not at all. There have been many-a-times where Walmart employees know as much about the products their departments sell, as I do about cars (which is nothing, except their general price range)...

Edit: they're = their

[Edited 2007-02-05 06:42:54]
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:36 pm

There is an inherent bias by many against Wal-Mart for numerous reasons – anti-union, part-time, China, health care, and the venerable ‘what they do to small towns’ by putting the small guy out of business.

One example – my parents live in NB, Can across the border from Washington County in Northern Maine. They are from there and have always maintained a residence in the area. Washington County is one of the poorest counties in the US.

Sammy’s folk threw up [pun fully intended] a Wally World about a decade ago. It has absolutely devastated the lives of everyone they know. It has absolutely devastated the town and surrounding area. Has is helped the economy? Well, you can throw numbers around all day long. But those numbers don’t say part-time, uninsured people are slaves to this corporation as opposed to being the true movers and shakers of a village.

One doesn’t go to an auto mechanic, hardware store, market, furniture store, pet store, ice cream parlor, etc anymore. One goes to Wal-Mart so those slaves scan something to a ‘beep’ much to the Walton Empire’s delight.

And rural northern Maine is 10 years behind the time. Wal-Mart did this to most of America a generation ago.
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
lincoln
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:05 pm

It's market forces and economic Darwinism at work. It may not be pretty but it is necessary for a healthy competitive environment...

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 5):
How can a can of Cambels soup at walmart for 84 cents compete with the small store for 99? It doesnt

You compete on service, among other things. I don't shop at Wal-Mart because of the store cleanliness, the product display, and the customer service (or the complete void thereof) -- the same reasons I didn't shop at Tops unless I could avoid it prior to their exiting the NEO market. (And hey-did you notice? They left NEO...I must not have been the only person avoiding them!)

The places I do shop (Zagaras Marketplace, Giant Eagle, and very occasionally Target, among others) have excellent customer service and generally fresh merchandise in well-kept stores.

I'm fortunate in that I only have to feed myself and my job pays well enough that I'm not counting every penny I spend so I can (and) do place an emphasis on total quality over cost.

(I'm also making more of an effort to shop specailty stores rather than GMing everything. It's a tough habit to break, but I feel better about shopping that way).

Lincoln
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:14 pm

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 14):
Well, lets go sit at Walmart for 24 hours, then a local upscale grocer for 24 hours. I'm sure we'll see more red flags at Walmart than the grocer.

Not my job to substantiate your assertion/allegation.

Proof? Source? This happens MORE at Wal-Mart than anywhere else. I call it  redflag . You can't prove that.

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 14):
Actually, I took it and reported it to the lady who rang up my stuff. She threw it away and said she'd right it up as damaged.

Excellent. And anything about the moron that put it back on the shelf? Was there some ramification for that stupidity? Glad you followed up on that . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
NoUFO
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:25 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 16):
It's market forces and economic Darwinism at work.

Indeed. It's easy to put the blame on Wal Mart and the likes; but after all consumers vote with their purse, hence they are to blame for bland and uniform looking cities or shopping streets and grey box-shaped megastores.
I support the right to arm bears
 
TransWorldSTL
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:30 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 17):

Excellent. And anything about the moron that put it back on the shelf? Was there some ramification for that stupidity? Glad you followed up on that . . .

Would you like me to go back there yell at him for you, or something? Maybe I should have staged a sit-in, until I witnessed him being verbally and physically abused by his manager? Would that make you feel better?

I reported the incident.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:37 pm

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 19):
Would you like me to go back there yell at him for you, or something?

 rotfl 

Noo, I mean, did the person that disposed of the meat say this idiot would be dealt with? A complaint form? An incident form?

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 19):
I reported the incident.

I guessed that, I wondered if they had you fill out a form or some BS like that.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
lincoln
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:45 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 20):
had you fill out a form

You realize how badly that would come back to bite them in the ass if there were ever some sort of foodborne illness outbreak? If they could, they'd probably send the WMIB (WalMart Men In Black) out to zap his memory so he couldn't tell anyone about it, let alone creating a potentially discoverable peice of paper that may pop up in a future legal action.

Lesson #1 in Lincoln's Pretend Law School: Don't create evidence for the other side you don't have to.  Smile

Lincoln
[S-NAL]
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j_hallgren
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:10 pm

Down here in FL, about 3/4 of a mile from a huge Lowe's is a local hardware store that was here long before the big box stores came...it still is going fine and even has expanded after the Lowe's! They actually were getting more business as many of their customers are older and don't want to deal with a big store and lack of help...

Up on Cape Cod, a Home Depot opened about 15 or so months ago...the Ace hardware store (which I use about as often as the HD) in same town said business for first 2-3 mths after HD opened was less, but has mostly returned...for similar reasons as in FL...help and size of store...I use them because they carry a different product mix than HD...and I can buy some items in smaller quantity than HD, or for less cost (especially odd/end screws, nuts/bolts, etc)

So it isn't always a big store that forces out the lil guys...it depends on how they handle it.
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andessmf
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:38 pm

Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 22):

So it isn't always a big store that forces out the lil guys...it depends on how they handle it.

Quite true. All businesses have to adjust to their current conditions. Some have taken advantage by offering something different than the big box store.

I noticed some time back about the 'Home Depot Special', where for any type of home construction, there are many (lets just keep to my electrical specialty) devices that are standard and therefore cheaper (standard items are what are kept in stock at all times).

This creates a McMansion special, where many homes look very similar. The stores that keep a different stock do well, since the big box store has removed their competition.

Personally, we don't buy almost anything from Walmart. We might go there twice a year for something that does not require quality. But whoever wants to shop there can go there, this is a free, capitalist country.
 
j_hallgren
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:26 pm

About 3 wks before the HD opened on Cape, I needed a small electric chainsaw...price about $53 at ACE...via net, I saw that HD's price was $10 less than ACE...so do I wait for it at HD? No...I asked at ACE if they'd split the diff...which they did...so I got it for 10% less, and when I wanted it.

Most of the stuff I buy a WalMart are things that I'd buy at some other similar large store anyway...just that W-M is much closer to home...
COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:07 pm

Theres a similiar arguement going on in the UK at the moment regarding Tesco - which is our biggest grocery retailer.

Something like a third of all money spent on groceries is spent at Tesco, and that seems to be somewhat of an issue to various people. The claim is that they drive out smaller competitors, and as such lower the local economy.

The issue I have with this is that I want to decide where to spend my money, not someone else. I want value for money, I dont want to pay more than necessary so that a few people dont need to rethink their job. I can do my own comparisons- and in a comparison between a large chain retailer and local shops, the large chain retailer wins every time.

My way of thinking probably hurts some people, but I dont care - my job isnt propped up by an interfering government, its threatened all the time by competition.

A good example that recently came up was that of milk. Someone protested recently outside Parliament that milk prices were too low because the chain stores werent paying enough - which is ludicrous, the reason they are actually too low is because of overproduction.

The UK is the third largest milk producer in the EU, we have on average more head of cattle per farm, more produciton per farm than anyone on the continent. And yet nearly a third of our milk supply is thrown away precisely because of overproduction.

*shakes head*
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:10 pm

We used to have some Walmart shops in Germany, the ones I've been in were quite clean (there were always cleaners around sweeping the shop) and the food was ok, but I think that has more to do with German mentality, since most Hausfrauen would shun a dirty shop and spot checks by the food and health department happen quite often (the public has been sensitised by several food scandals).

I think this made Walmarts business in Germany too expensive for the company, especially since hey face heavy competition by local supermarket chains, so that they pulled out again.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
NoUFO
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:23 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 25):
A good example that recently came up was that of milk. Someone protested recently outside Parliament that milk prices were too low because the chain stores werent paying enough - which is ludicrous, the reason they are actually too low is because of overproduction.

Chain stores will always find means to keep prices ridiculously low. By ridiculously I mean that farmers are pressed to save money on hygiene, fodder and the vet.
Then we see things like BSE and the public is alarmed for a moment only to forget it over a cup of tea and then ask for the cheapest meat or milk again.

Low prices aren't always good; there are reasons why chicken, eggs or salmon are cheaper today then they were decades ago, or why shopping streets look bland.

It's crazy, but some people are willing to spend a fortune on their car stereo or make-up but don't see why they should pay 5c more for milk from cows that actually eat grass.
I support the right to arm bears
 
andessmf
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:59 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 27):
It's crazy, but some people are willing to spend a fortune on their car stereo or make-up but don't see why they should pay 5c more for milk from cows that actually eat grass.

It is easier to justify spending more money for a typical one-time purchase than what you NEED to buy constantly, such a food and gas.
 
Banco
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:14 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 25):
The issue I have with this is that I want to decide where to spend my money, not someone else. I want value for money, I dont want to pay more than necessary so that a few people dont need to rethink their job. I can do my own comparisons- and in a comparison between a large chain retailer and local shops, the large chain retailer wins every time.

Sure. And it's invariably the same people that use them because they are cheaper that then complain about the loss of local shops. Personally, I tend not to use Tesco that much, preferring to shop locally. But that's because I live in a rural area, and our local produce is invariably of much higher quality. But that's my choice, no-one else's.

As for milk, if memory serves, the supermarkets don't buy directly from the farmers, but from intermediaries. I was listening to an interview with Sir Terry Leahy (one of the truly outstanding businessmen this country has produced) the other day, and he was talking about this very subject, making the rather obvious point that it is hardly in their interests to drive farmers out of business, and that whilst there is clearly an issue in terms of farmer's income, they're hamstrung from doing too much about it because of competition laws. He's right too. Too many people seem to think that supermarkets can do anything other than get the best price. It's all they can do, unless there is government intervention.

Eventually, the market catches up. There's a desire for local producers to be supported from the public, and the supermarkets are now increasing the proportion of their goods that is local.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Pope
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:55 pm

The beauty of capitalism is that every single consumer gets to vote on this every single day by deciding where they shop. The problem is that the market has spoken and people want Wal*Mart.

As Jan pointed out, Wal*Mart failed in Germany all without the government having to do a single thing. If you don't like Wal*Mart don't shop there. Go spend more somewhere else. But don't bitch and complain about it on a message board and then go give them your money.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:40 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 18):
ndeed. It's easy to put the blame on Wal Mart and the likes; but after all consumers vote with their purse, hence they are to blame for bland and uniform looking cities or shopping streets and grey box-shaped megastores.

Absolutely correct. Every dollar you spend is a vote for how you'd like your world to look, and every dollar spent is a political statement about the world you want your kids to inherit. Eating is therefore the most political act there is.

A good number of our counties here are so thinly populated that they do not attract the attention of the large chains such as Walmart et al. There have been new markets opening up in some small towns bankrolled by community development funds and being operated by young people. In once case, a grocery store was started by a high school student with his savings and community development money and it is doing quite well.

I can tell you that the chain stores on the edge of town have put a lot of small downtown operators out of business who could not compete. The combination of cheap merchandise in a centralized location and "shopping as excursion" is very attractive to rural people.

Niche marketers are finding a way to compete. In my part of Des Moines, there are four hardware stores-three Ace and one independent. To go to Home Despot it's a ten mile ride and a mall hassle.

Although the independent is slightly more expensive, it's my go-to place because it's been on that corner for sixty years and apparently have never thrown anything away or spent any money on remodeling. You get nails weighed out in a paper bag. The people who work there, mostly old timers, are a fund of knowledge that's priceless.

Small scale producers everywhere are faced with the prospects of dealing with vertical integration. They do it with better service, a higher quality product, a product that's too idiosyncratic to attract the attention of the chain stores, and being quicker on their feet. I am the attorney for a group of berkshire pork producers that started seven years ago with one truck, some hogs, and one person who didn't want to be a janitor for Mr. Tyson's hogs. This year we're looking at several million dollars in business and killing about 200 hogs a week.

On the other hand, this is all part of a process of vertical integration. Main Street merchants, be it remembered, put wagon and pushcart pedlars and street corner fruit sellers out of business 100 years ago through local ordinances and licensing schemes, and slept the sleep of the just. They sold shoes and put the cobbler out of business, and sold cutlery and pots and put the knife sharpener and the tinker on the dole.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12388
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:28 am

I don't think Wal-Mart is the only cause for the disappearance of family run retail businesses - there are other factors too.
Many of the later generations don't want to be in the 'family' business as don't want to deal with the responsibilities of being in charge, the ups and downs of business, competition (including Wal-Mart, other big-box stores, large chains), difficulties in raising capital to expand, smaller and less efficient stores, lack of parking space, lack of clout in negotiating prices as well as wanting to be in more glamours and secure employment.
With supermarkets, all those factors are critical. Wal-Mart has critical clout in buying and thus controlling markets throughout the USA and Canada as to food and general merchandise
Also, there is no 'nationwide' supermarket chains in the USA, although Wal-Mart is probably the closest now with their super centers. Kroger, Albertsons, while they cover major areas of the USA, they are not in all states. Most supermarkets in the USA tend to be regional, with stores in a number or a few states Then you also have purchasing co-op and distribution companies like IGA that are important too, that allow for family run supermarkets in small markets, including ones where Wal-mart couldn't be financially viable.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 30):
As Jan pointed out, Wal*Mart failed in Germany all without the government having to do a single thing. If you don't like Wal*Mart don't shop there. Go spend more somewhere else. But don't bitch and complain about it on a message board and then go give them your money.

Wel, there are some exceptions when you will be forced to buy at one single supplier:

Back in the late 1990s, when I was working in SNN, Ireland, the only supermarket within 25 km radius was a very expensive Tesco shop in Shannon town. Since at this time public transport was practically non existing in this area everybody who did not own a car ( and therefore was able to drive to Limerick or Ennis) HAD to buy his groceries in this shop for outrageous prices.
Only in 2000 a Lidl (German chain) supermarket opened right beside this Tesco shop and the prices went down.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting LHMARK (Thread starter):

LH, just a point of contention... why would you post just a link, without expanding upon the subject of your thread or the link? Indeed, one doesn't know what you're talking about unless they read the story behind the link. And for people... say in the shitty Iraqi desert... the internet sucks and websites take 10 minutes to load.

Just wondering.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
KROC
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 34):
LH, just a point of contention... why would you post just a link, without expanding upon the subject of your thread or the link? Indeed, one doesn't know what you're talking about unless they read the story behind the link. And for people... say in the shitty Iraqi desert... the internet sucks and websites take 10 minutes to load.

Just wondering.

-UH60

Mark is still not over his favorite local bar closing down, so now its just drop a link and not actually discuss the issue.

I think the best point made so far is simply this. All the mom and pop places wouldn't go out of business if the consumers didn't CHOOSE to go to Wallmart or whatever big business store you want to rag about. Because of this, why aren't people ripping the consumers instead of the big retailers?
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting KROC (Reply 35):
I think the best point made so far is simply this. All the mom and pop places wouldn't go out of business if the consumers didn't CHOOSE to go to Wallmart or whatever big business store you want to rag about. Because of this, why aren't people ripping the consumers instead of the big retailers?

I think the problem is also that there exists a downward spiral concerning income, at least in Germany where over the last ten years or so net incomes went down by several percent mostly due to inflation, plus additionally tax increases. As much as I hate too, occasionally I'm forced to go to one of the big shops.
Also, employers seem to reason that due to the existence of these big chains "life is becoming cheaper" so that slaries can go down too. E.g. my boss likes to argue that living in the area I'm in is supposed to be so cheap that he can pay lower wages.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
Banco
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 36):
E.g. my boss likes to argue that living in the area I'm in is supposed to be so cheap that he can pay lower wages.

Great boss.  eyebrow 

Must be nice to know he rates what you do so highly. Perhaps the cost of having to hire new staff after his existing ones have all left might be a concern to him.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
767Lover
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 2):
We have been in the same spot for 70 years and most of our customers are regulars who have been coming here for years.

Then you should have nothing to worry about.

And this reminds me of the little donut and sandwich shop around the corner from me. It's owned by a Korean couple, and as far as I know it's their only business because they are ALWAYS there. Anyhow, it is within walking distance of a Dunkin' Donuts and a Quiznos sandwich shop and lots of fast food places, and within a 1 min drive of 2 Starbucks and other fast food places. All these stores have been in the same place for at least the past 3-5 years. And the mom and pop one does a brisk business, even though their donuts are not that cheap. Why? Because they have really good personal service. They also find creative ways to expand their business, like offering their place for organization meetings and stuff. Hats off to them.

[Edited 2007-02-05 19:00:26]
 
NoUFO
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:54 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 36):
E.g. my boss likes to argue that living in the area I'm in is supposed to be so cheap that he can pay lower wages.

Funny enough, this never works the other way around. In this case your employer would (rightfully) claim that you'll have to substantiate the increase in salary you want with the work and achivements you've done.
I support the right to arm bears
 
LHMark
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 34):
LH, just a point of contention... why would you post just a link, without expanding upon the subject of your thread or the link? Indeed, one doesn't know what you're talking about unless they read the story behind the link. And for people... say in the shitty Iraqi desert... the internet sucks and websites take 10 minutes to load.

Sorry. I found the story late last night and posted it just before going to bed.

I think it sucks, and I'm disappointed in American consumers for letting their own main streets go down the toilet for the sake of convenience and minute savings. I think we sometimes forget that we must live in the world we create.

Wegmans and Dale's have coexisted in Albion for decades. It's interesting that Wal-Mart has been so much more efficient at driving the little guy out of business.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
Pope
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 33):
Wel, there are some exceptions when you will be forced to buy at one single supplier:


Of course, but is that the case with Wal*Mart? The biggest criticism I hear of it is that it drives out smaller competitors. Therefore, competition does exist at some point and every shopper has a choice. People choose the lower prices even if that means driving out the competition and ultimately leading to higher prices. Their (the consumers) actually sow the seeds of their own destruction (so to speak).
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
JeepBoy
Posts: 256
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:35 am

Wall Mart = white trash = food stamps = if the Chinese economy flops...

They are stalking Australia now which is an interesting thing.

Cheers,

j
*yay*
 
Dougloid
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:24 am

Walmart isn't very helpful if you're a manufacturer trying to compete with Stalag China. Some folks have found that between just-in-time ordering, Walmart muscle, and downward price pressure, they're finding it impossible to compete with American labor, or Latin American for that matter. Imagine, workers in Honduras being overpriced out of the market.

Back when Sam Walton was still around, Walmart announced a buy american campaign where if they could get it for the same price they'd default to the local supplier. That went down in the same hole that Sam's in.

Personally, I do not shop at Walmart regularly. The produce is indifferent, the meat is uniformly marginal in terms of taste, appearance, price, and tenderness, and the goods are of indifferent quality. They are not a whole lot less than other stores either.

They also treat their workers like toilet paper to be used and thrown away, they don't much care about the communities they are sited in, and they regularly use Joe Straw contractors to avoid being hit for hiring illegal aliens.

There are a very few items I buy from them-they have packaged alcohol swabs in the optometrist's area that are very good stuff (Zeiss) for cleaning lenses, and every once in a while there'll be a good deal on jeans or work boots. Their enchilada sauce is pretty good too.

Even a commie pinko like me can't afford $80 for a Carhart jacket or $150 for a pair of Wolverine work boots....
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting JeepBoy (Reply 42):
Wall Mart = white trash = food stamps = if the Chinese economy flops...

You obviously haven't been to any stores in the US. Perhaps not in rural areas, but in suburbs and the city a good portion of the customers are "minorities". I hit Walmart once a month or so for sundries only, and about 50% of the customers are Latin American.

I know alot of poor people who go to Walmart for the cheap prices and I also know alot of rich people who go to Walmart for the cheap prices. The difference is in the product selection I believe that the quality of clothes is terrible and I refuse to buy any at Walmart, but I understand why the poor looking Mexican American family with six rugrats shop there. I buy socks and vats of Vaseline at Walmart  Wink but thats about it. So I think that it can be said that, at least in Arizona, almost everyone shops at Walmart for something-no matter the race or income.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
Dougloid
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:07 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 44):
You obviously haven't been to any stores in the US. Perhaps not in rural areas, but in suburbs and the city a good portion of the customers are "minorities". I hit Walmart once a month or so for sundries only, and about 50% of the customers are Latin American.

That might hold true anywhere in your state...on the other hand, on the rare occasions that I go to Wally World the crowd seems to be about 50 per cent minorities.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
MaidensGator
Posts: 848
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:36 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 44):
So I think that it can be said that, at least in Arizona, almost everyone shops at Walmart for something-no matter the race or income.

Even though I live in Florida, I've been to Wal-Mart in Arizona. It was identical to the one at home. Everything in the same place. It was pretty clean and well stocked. I wanted some snacks and film for my camera on a vacation, so it was habit to go there. However, I have been in a couple in the Northeast that were ratty. Shelves were bare and they were dirty.

Where I live, in a county of about 200,000 people there are five Super Wal-Marts, and like you said, everybody shops there for something. I don't like their meats, but some groceries are just so much cheaper than anywhere else. Cream for coffee, sugar, chips, stuff like that. Plus motor oil, socks, bug spray, memory cards, all sorts of stuff that is identical to the store down the road is a LOT cheaper.

I read that the anti-trust guys from Washington keep a close eye on Wal-Mart. But Wal-Mart hasn't been found in violation, because unlike most other industries that manage to "corner the market", Wal-Mart keeps lowering prices. In the traditional anti-trust model, a business cuts prices until everyone else pulls out, then they jack them up. But Wal-mart keeps them low, so no violations.

Around here, there's a few big grocery chains. Publix, Winn-Dixie, Albertson's, and they all run weekly specials that undercut Wal-Mart on at least some stuff. My wife keeps an eye on the flyers and we just stock up when stuff is cheap. Wal-Mart does stay open 24 hours, so I know quite a few people who grocery shop in the middle of the night when there's no crowds. They've also lowered the price on about 300 prescriptions to like three bucks for a month supply, regardless of insurance. That helps a lot of people.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
beefstew25
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:06 pm

I wonder if when cars were invented, people bitched about how the stables were going to go under.

If you don't adjust, you lose.

In high school I delivered prescription drugs to residents of my small town in New Mexico. The phamacy I worked for previously did not do this, but when Wal-Mart came in, the owner had to adjust. Do you think Wal-Mart would deliver? Nope. Originally the delivery was for elderly and shut-ins, but it proved so popular, we would deliever anyone their meds.

I think for so long mom and pop stores got by without WORKING for their customers business. You can either be a horse and buggy or a car. You decide.
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:10 pm

Quoting Beefstew25 (Reply 47):
In high school I delivered prescription drugs to residents of my small town in New Mexico. The phamacy I worked for previously did not do this, but when Wal-Mart came in, the owner had to adjust. Do you think Wal-Mart would deliver? Nope. Originally the delivery was for elderly and shut-ins, but it proved so popular, we would deliever anyone their meds.

This is actually how many Turkish and Chinese owned corner shops in German cities survive, by delivering groceries to their customers.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
QXatFAT
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RE: Another Casualty In The Wal-Mart Wars

Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:18 pm

I am proud to say that here in Madera, CA we have a Wal-Mart who keeps on pushing for the past 3 years a Super Wal-Mart and the City of Madera keeps on shooting them down. The City of Madera does not want the store here and Wal-Mart has said then they would like to put a store on the opposite side of town and still has been shot down by the City of Madera. Props for that. I do not shop at Wal-Mart nor will I ever (this is my preference so please dont argue with MY opinion as no ones opinion is truth for someone else always)
Don't Tread On Me!

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