IFEMaster
Topic Author
Posts: 4164
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More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:11 am

Just any FYI for anyone currently running or considering running Windows Vista, it's not as secure as Microsoft make it out to be:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6331959.stm

Fair use excerpt:

Quote:
The security testing group found that Live OneCare missed far more active viruses than any other program tested.



Quote:
When Vista was launched on 30 January, Microsoft chairman Bill Gates claimed that it was "dramatically more secure" than other operating systems.

Reading the results at Virus Bulletin, the following products achieved the VB100 award on the Vista platform:

Avast, CA, Quick Heal, NOD32, Fortinet, AVG, Kaspersky, Sophos, and F-Secure. Each of these detected and prevented 100% of all known viruses and variants.

The following products did not achieve VB100 as they did not detect all known viruses and variants:

Live OneCare, G-Data AntiVirusKit, McAfee VirusScan Enterprise 8.51 and Norman Virus Control 5.90

Live OneCare was the lowest scorer, with 99.91%
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airbusA346
Posts: 7284
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:40 am

Klaus will soon be saying - "buy a Mac"  Wink

Tom.
Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
 
IFEMaster
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting AirbusA346 (Reply 1):
Klaus will soon be saying - "buy a Mac"

In that case, I'll go there before him.

Considering the fact that we're just seeing the same old Microsoft skeletons coming out of a closet that might look nice and shiny but isn't what Microsoft are saying it is, I think now is the time switch to a Mac.

Honestly, I can see Vista being the biggest mistake Microsoft ever made, and it's becoming more and more obvious that MS are several years behind Apple on several levels with their technology.

My god, I can't believe I'm saying this. A year ago, I would have sworn away from Macs. Now, with the way Microsoft have botched this product, if I want things to 'just work', I don't have a choice. I'm happy to pay a few hundred bucks more for something I can rely on.
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rammstein
Posts: 697
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
it's not as secure as Microsoft make it out to be:

Do you remember Microsoft's commercials, when Windows 95 was published?  Big grin
He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
airbusA346
Posts: 7284
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:52 am

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 3):

Nope, can you show us some.

Tom.
Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
 
IFEMaster
Topic Author
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 3):
Do you remember Microsoft's commercials, when Windows 95 was published?

Was that the series with 'Start Me Up' as the music, and they all revolved around the Start button?

Even better is when Windows 98 crashed during a live public demo...



"Moving right along..."  laughing 
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rammstein
Posts: 697
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 5):

Was that the series with 'Start Me Up' as the music, and they all revolved around the Start button?

Exactly. And

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 5):
Even better is when Windows 98 crashed during a live public demo...

you were faster than me, I was posting it  Wink
He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting AirbusA346 (Reply 1):
Klaus will soon be saying - "buy a Mac"

I've never stopped saying that!  mischievous 
 
IFEMaster
Topic Author
Posts: 4164
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:05 am

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 6):
Exactly. And

And don't remember exactly the content...remind me.
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Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 5):
Was that the series with 'Start Me Up' as the music, and they all revolved around the Start button?

Ironically, the lyrics of the Rolling Stones song they licensed for that campaign also say "You make a grown man cry"...  mischievous 
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
Reading the results at Virus Bulletin, the following products achieved the VB100 award on the Vista platform:

Avast, CA, Quick Heal, NOD32, Fortinet, AVG, Kaspersky, Sophos, and F-Secure. Each of these detected and prevented 100% of all known viruses and variants.

The following products did not achieve VB100 as they did not detect all known viruses and variants:

Live OneCare, G-Data AntiVirusKit, McAfee VirusScan Enterprise 8.51 and Norman Virus Control 5.90

Live OneCare was the lowest scorer, with 99.91%

And how many of these will RUN or affect a vista computer?
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IFEMaster
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 10):
And how many of these will RUN or affect a vista computer?

Moot point, Ted. Microsoft have been bragging about how secure Vista is, yet when it's put under the microscope and tested, it's yet another part of Vista that doesn't live up to the hype Microsoft have put through the loud hailer. The VB test isn't about running a computer, it's about protecting it from malice.
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kaddyuk
Posts: 3697
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 11):
Moot point, Ted. Microsoft have been bragging about how secure Vista is, yet when it's put under the microscope and tested, it's yet another part of Vista that doesn't live up to the hype Microsoft have put through the loud hailer. The VB test isn't about running a computer, it's about protecting it from malice.

You're talking about 3rd party software here, NO company will guarentee 3rd party software.

Virus' are designed to bypass OS Security otherwise they're not a virus. If you want a secure Vista computer, dont buy any of these Virus Scanners:

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
Live OneCare, G-Data AntiVirusKit, McAfee VirusScan Enterprise 8.51 and Norman Virus Control 5.90
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
DL787932ER
Posts: 575
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 3:27 pm

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 2):
Honestly, I can see Vista being the biggest mistake Microsoft ever made

Heh...I can recall people saying the same thing about every OS Microsoft has ever released.

Here's how it'll play out: Microsoft will make inflated, exaggerated claims about their new OS. Microsoft-bashers will make inflated, exaggerated claims about how their new OS is the worst software ever. The truth is that it will have some improvements, which won't be world-changing, and some downfalls, which will be corrected...sooner or later.

And in two years, 95% of computers on the planet will be running the new OS, all but a few of them won't care about the "OS war" that exists in the minds of a few Mac and Linux fanatics, and the world will go on. Just like every other time.
F L Y D E L T A J E T S
 
IFEMaster
Topic Author
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 12):
Virus' are designed to bypass OS Security otherwise they're not a virus.

Precisely, and Microsoft own protection, as an integral part of Vista or as a seperate product, however you want to look at it, isn't doing what other third parties are. You'd think that Microsoft of all people would know the intricacies of their own operating system well enough to produce a useful security product to protect it.
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cba
Posts: 4228
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2000 2:02 pm

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:16 am

Yet another reason I'm happy that I switched to a Mac... once you go Mac, you never go back!

To be honest though, every new version of Windows has these hitches, that's why you never upgrade immediately. Wait for the .1 version to come out, or the patch. In a year, these problems will have been hammered out to a large extent, and Vista will be a decent operating system. Won't hold a candle to the new MacOs, but it will be use able.
 
N231YE
Posts: 2620
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:24 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:23 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
Live OneCare was the lowest scorer, with 99.91%

Live OneCare sucks...I tried it, and it only lasted on my PC for a week. What a waste of USD$49.00.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 11):
Moot point, Ted.

Are you on crack??

That's like saying MS should detect software that is designed to run on Macs.. You deserve your fate buddy.
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Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:36 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 17):
That's like saying MS should detect software that is designed to run on Macs..

How so? As far as I understand the test, Microsoft's own "protection" could not counteract quite a number of attacks. That is very much relevant!

From the BBC article:

Quote:
Microsoft's Windows Live OneCare security tool was one of four products that failed independent tests carried out by the Virus Bulletin.

The security testing group found that Live OneCare missed far more active viruses than any other program tested.

To pass the tests anti-virus tools must spot and stop 100% of the malicious programs used to attack them.

Nothing alien about it, probably quite close to real-life scenarios many people happen to have.

The fact appears to be that Microsoft themselves are not capable of providing adequate security for their very own operating system.

If that doesn't instill a sense of trust...!  crazy 

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 17):
You deserve your fate buddy.

Everybody deserves a Macintosh...!  bigthumbsup 
 
mham001
Posts: 4349
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:31 pm

You Mac guys are getting delerious. This has nothing to do with Vista, its an anti-virus program, not the operating system. sheesh.
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 6:12 pm

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 19):
You Mac guys are getting delerious. This has nothing to do with Vista, its an anti-virus program, not the operating system. sheesh.

Yep. Just the usual anti-Microsoft crowd attempting to spin a story. You guys need to try a little harder. It isn't about Vista, it's about certain anti-virus programs, "Live OneCare" included, failing to be 100% effective in detecting viruses.

Here is another version of the report. This paragraph sums up the real story: "With the number of delays that we've seen in Vista's release, there's no excuse for security vendors not to have got their products right by now," said John Hawes, technical consultant at Virus Bulletin. "In these days of hourly updates, it's always a surprise and a disappointment to see major products missing them (viruses). Vista cannot fend off today's malware without help from security products. It certainly looks like people upgrading to the new platform are going to need additional security solutions". It's not the supposed lack of security of Vista, it's the failure of the makers of anti-virus software to design their products to be more effective.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:10 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 20):
It's not the supposed lack of security of Vista

Huh?

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 20):
Vista cannot fend off today's malware without help from security products. It certainly looks like people upgrading to the new platform are going to need additional security solutions"

 wink 

The point is that M$'s "most secure ever" OS still isn't capable of fending off attacks without additional software. That's exactly what people tire of: having to install, run and update anti-virus, anti-trojan and anti-spyware software plus firewalls, monthly "critical updates" and so on. If it weren't for that, no one would be complaining about the insecurity of Windows.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:24 pm

Quoting Aloges (Reply 21):

The point is that M$'s "most secure ever" OS still isn't capable of fending off attacks without additional software.

I'm not disputing that. All I am saying is the articles that have been quoted are addressing the fact that some name brand anti-virus programs, McAfee, Microsoft, etc... failed miserably when their virus detection capabilities were put to the test on attacks against Vista.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:57 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 22):
I'm not disputing that. All I am saying is the articles that have been quoted are addressing the fact that some name brand anti-virus programs, McAfee, Microsoft, etc... failed miserably when their virus detection capabilities were put to the test on attacks against Vista.

In light of Microsoft's earlier attempts to keep competing "security" software manufacturers away from Vista at far as possible it's certainly not a good omen for "the most secure Windows yet"...!
 
WSOY
Posts: 822
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:09 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 23):
In light of Microsoft's earlier attempts to keep competing "security" software manufacturers away from Vista at far as possible

What might that mean in reality? Why do you put "security" in quotation marks?
"Nukkuessa tulee nälkä" (Nipsu)
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:39 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 18):
How so? As far as I understand the test, Microsoft's own "protection" could not counteract quite a number of attacks. That is very much relevant!

I'm not saying the protection is perfect, but when you are talking about vista ignoring software that CAN't attack it you are buying into the Microsoft sucks HYPE. It's about as fair as picking on Apple for not being able to detect windows viruses. You want to buy into the alarmist  redflag ; enjoy your wasted time running around like Chicken little and looking un-educated.. that's not going to be my problem.
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Klaus
Posts: 20649
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:46 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 25):
but when you are talking about vista ignoring software that CAN't attack it

I haven't bothered to dig deeper yet, but my impression from the article is that the malware that got through is very well capable of attacking Vista - that was the whole point of the test!

If the malware hadn't been able to install itself, it would not have counted against the "tab" of the respective protection program as I understand it.

And that Microsoft produces junk by the shipload is unfortunately an experience I share with millions of others.
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:47 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):
If the malware hadn't been able to install itself, it would not have counted against the "tab" of the respective protection program as I understand it.

Exactly. The thrust of the articles was to bring to light the inadequacies of the anti-virus programs that were tested, not necessarily the OS that was being used at the time.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):
And that Microsoft produces junk by the shipload is unfortunately an experience I share with millions of others.

No argument. But what's it say about Microsoft's direct competitor when, even though millions of users realize they're buying junk from MS, they continue to do so? It doesn't say much for Apple, Inc. does it? If Apple is truly superior to Microsoft, they're dropping the ball somewhere, being that they're still just a blip on the radar screen when it comes to market share.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 9:55 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 27):
If Apple is truly superior to Microsoft, they're dropping the ball somewhere

That would be aggressive marketing. I've never heard of "dirty" sales tactics employed by Apple - could be though - and M$ on the other hand is known extremely well for it. Besides, many people couldn't care less what OS they have on their computers or don't even know it. So with a 90+ per cent market share and everything made compatible with Windows, anyone trying to compete with it will have to be either ten times better or willing to remain in a niche.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
cba
Posts: 4228
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 27):
even though millions of users realize they're buying junk from MS, they continue to do so? It doesn't say much for Apple, Inc. does it?

Most people don't realize that there is a usable alternative to Windows out there that can run their every day programs, they simply just don't know. My roommate over the summer, for example, was looking for a new computer, and I said that he should consider a Mac. His response: "Well, I need to use MS Office..." Once I told him that MS Office was available for the Mac, and that there was either a Mac version or another program that does the same thing for every task he needed his computer for, he went and bought the Mac.

Most people just don't know.

Another point to keep in mind is that Apples generally cost more, as they are built with only the highest quality hardware. Bargain-basement Windows laptops/PC's are a dime a dozen. You get what you pay for. The AppleCare warranty also kicks ass.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):
I haven't bothered to dig deeper yet

Be My Guest. I might end up looking like the fool, but I would be surprised.
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Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:34 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 27):
Exactly. The thrust of the articles was to bring to light the inadequacies of the anti-virus programs that were tested, not necessarily the OS that was being used at the time.

Well, the programs can only fail to protect what open flanks the OS already has, so it is relevant to look at the OS...

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 27):
But what's it say about Microsoft's direct competitor when, even though millions of users realize they're buying junk from MS, they continue to do so?

In my experience it's a collection of factors: Ignorance (not knowing about alternatives) and depression (not believing that it could ever get better) are among the most widespread ones...

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 27):
If Apple is truly superior to Microsoft, they're dropping the ball somewhere, being that they're still just a blip on the radar screen when it comes to market share.

That blip is rapidly outgrowing the rest of the market - while most manufacturers can at best hope for a bit of sustained linear growth, Apple is currently exhibiting signs of double-digit exponential growth!

Underestimating Apple is a mistake which others have made - often at their peril...
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 31):
Underestimating Apple is a mistake which others have made - often at their peril...

 yes 

While I'm pro Windows, I'm certainly NOT anti MAC.
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StarAC17
Posts: 3402
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:22 pm

I think the Mac supporters are missing one big thing and that is that of all the computer systems they are a huge minority and are the most part ignored by viruses and spyware. If Macs were the majority of computer systems then I can say with 100% confidence that they would have security issues as well.

Also please realize that most Windows users are not very smart at maintaining their systems to check for Spyware and Viruses. Also they blindly install every component that each program has which is another reason that Windows has at least some stability issues with most users.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
IFEMaster
Topic Author
Posts: 4164
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 17):

Are you on crack??

No. Are you?

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 17):

That's like saying MS should detect software that is designed to run on Macs

Not at all. The malware that Live OneCare failed to detect and prevent was designed to attack Vista. Microsoft, being the only company on the planet with 100% to the architecture of their product, should know EXACTLY how to identify and prevent malware that compromises that architecture.

Steve Ballmer was quoted as saying that Vista is so secure that you won't really need any security software. Looks like VB have quickly pissed on his fire and disproved that notion.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 17):
You deserve your fate buddy

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but my 'fate' will be a pleasant one.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 18):
The fact appears to be that Microsoft themselves are not capable of providing adequate security for their very own operating system.



Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 20):
It isn't about Vista,

It is when the manufacturer of the security product is the only company on the planet with 100% knowledge and access to the architecture and source code of the platform they are attempting to protect. I can forgive the 3rd parties who failed; they have limited knowledge of the vulnerabilities of Vista. Microsoft have absolutely no excuse. They're the ones who know, therefore they are the ones who should be passing 100%.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 25):
when you are talking about vista ignoring software that CAN't attack it you are buying into the Microsoft sucks HYPE

As I said above, the malware concerned CAN and WILL attack it. Subscribe and read the bulletin; the holes exposed by the malware that got through really are quite alarming.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 34):
CAN and WILL attack it.

Sucessfully?

 no 
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IFEMaster
Topic Author
Posts: 4164
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:48 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 35):

Sucessfully?

Yes, successfully. Like I said, subscribe and read the bulletin. We've got:

1. A flaw that allows user privileges to be adjusted (an issues that has existed since Windows 2000 and STILL hasn't been addressed or resolved).

2. A flaw in CSRSS that allows an unauthenticated remote user to execute malicious code to pretty much do whatever he or she wants with your file system.

3. A flaw in IE7 that allows an unautheticated remote user to activate PRNP and attach using a P2P compliant application to begin moving files, deleting files, copying files, renaming files...

4. A flaw in the MessageBox API function that can be exposed via IE7. The flaw sends repeated LPCs to the MessageBox function and loops until after about 15 calls, Vista crashes in to the pretty oblivion of a BSOD. This has been carried over from XP, where it was also present.

So, Vista has been on consumer release for a week, and we've got 4 major issues. I expect better from a company with the resources that Microsoft have.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
David L
Posts: 8552
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:21 am

So, basically Vista is no less secure than XP and you can get protection software that deals with "100% of all known viruses and variants"? I won't lose any sleep over it.  Smile
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 3:37 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 36):
subscribe and read the bulletin

Grandpa Jims MAC users guide to windows?
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IFEMaster
Topic Author
Posts: 4164
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 38):
Grandpa Jims MAC users guide to windows?

If that's what you need, be my guest, but I was referring to the Virus Bulletin referenced in the thread starter.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:19 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Thread starter):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6331959.stm

   You are actually trusting the media?

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 39):
Virus Bulletin

Who the Eff are they? They look like they have been around for a couple years trying to make a name for themselves without much sucess; save the press they are getting from this article.

This is really confidence inspring:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_Bulletin

Quote:
Virus Bulletin is located in the Sophos headquarters in the UK. To this end, there is occasional debate from industry outsiders (fact)  as to the independence of Virus Bulletin from Sophos. Virus Bulletin was co-founded and is currently owned by Jan Hruska and Peter Lammer, the co-founders of Sophos. Virus Bulletin is a sister company to Sophos and is editorially independent.

http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2005/11/vboct05.html
Sophos Anti-Virus wins its 30th Virus Bulletin 100% award


              

[Edited 2007-02-07 20:24:34]

[Edited 2007-02-07 20:26:17]
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David L
Posts: 8552
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 38):
Grandpa Jims MAC users guide to windows?

 rotfl 

I was an Amiga nut for about 12 years after it was launched and when I started using Windows 3.0 and NT 3.5 at work I did nothing but moan about how crap they were. NASA agreed and I don't recall hearing about them using Macs for real-time telemetry, as they did with Amigas.

The fact was that the Amiga was technically superior to the other two main options and Windows was the worst of the three. However, there came a time when I had to let the Amiga go as Commodore management screwed it up, big time - the head of Commodore UK described the parent company as a Sales Prevention organisation.

I knew I could go for the Mac and have the surviving technological "winner" or go with the option that looked like being "the one almost everyone was using". Once bitten, I went for the latter. Since then, Windows has come on leaps and bounds and, while it may not be "as good as Mac OS", it does everything I can expect it to do.

Macs are "more secure" - so what? I haven't had any problems with Windows security. Flying is safer than driving but do I enjoy driving? Of course I do.

Macs are easier to use - so what? I like tinkering. Windows is as good or bad as you want it to be.  Smile
 
IFEMaster
Topic Author
Posts: 4164
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RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:32 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 40):
Who the Eff are they? They look like they have been around for a couple years trying to make a name for themselves without much sucess; save the press they are getting from this article.

Ted, Ted, Ted...when you're done getting out of Bill Gates' bed, look in to VB further. The tests they perform are industry standard tests. The results VB achieve are the same results other organizations achieve.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 40):
You are actually trusting the media?

Pathetic attempt at a thread hijack, but to answer your question, I actually took the time to investigate it. I subscribe to the VB periodical and so have access to the full report the BBC reference, and in this instance, the BBC have reported accurately.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 40):

This is really confidence inspring:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus_B...letin

Well, I hate to turn the tables, but  rotfl  You are actually trusting wikipedia?

Also, considering that the VB100 award is what companies like ESET, McAfee, Symantec etc. strive for, their results carry a lot of weight in the industry. You'll also note that many companies, including those that are direct competitors to Sophos, write editorials, perform tests, speak at their annual global conference etc. VB are a highly reputable organization in the anti-malware world. I'm surprised that, for someone who apparently knows so much about these things, and works in the IT field, that you haven't heard of them.

I'm coming to the opinion that you're the Anti-Mac equivalent of the Anti-Windows Mac crowd. Do you really think Windows is so great and OSX is of the devil?
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:39 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 42):
of Bill Gates' bed,

I haven't paid for a Microsoft OS since '95

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 42):
I subscribe to the VB periodical

Seeing as you are a subscriber I wonder who's in bed with who?

As to the wiki reference, sure, it's not a great authority, but the fact the organization is based in a malware software makers HQ, and has given that producer it's highest award 30 times is LAUGHABLE whether or not you think the claim by any hack that there appears to be impropiety is credible or not.
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David L
Posts: 8552
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:42 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 42):
look in to VB further. The tests they perform are industry standard tests. The results VB achieve are the same results other organizations achieve.

And several products achieved the VB100 award... "on the Vista. platform".
 
IFEMaster
Topic Author
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:46 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 43):

I haven't paid for a Microsoft OS since '95

Oh, so you're a software thief as well? Maybe F.A.S.T. can help you out. Or are you still using Windows 95?

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 43):
Seeing as you are a subscriber I wonder who's in bed with who?

Indeed. I subscribe to Guitar Player, so I'm in bed with them. I subscribe to Time, so I'm in bed with them. And I subscribe to Virus Bulletin because, as a software developer, I'm not in the least bit interested in keeping up to date with various tests and results and opinions and articles and editorials from many of the industries leading authorities, representing many different leading anti-malware companies. No, I'm just in bed with them.

Newsflash, Ted - I don't even use a Sophos product. You need to take the blinkers off; you're being far too short sighted with Virus Bulletin. Their magazine contains far far far less reference to Sophos than you are making out. Once you've been subscriber for 6 years and attended a couple of their conferences, as I have, then maybe your opinion of them might mean something, but until then I suggest you stop spewing nonsense about a company you clearly know nothing about.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 45):
Maybe F.A.S.T. can help you out.

Will they get me a faster computer?  rotfl 

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 45):
Oh, so you're a software thief as well?

No, I have usually been fortunate to find a sponsor. Vista Might be the first OS I'll choose to buy once I feel I can put the proper equipment in place.

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 45):
I subscribe to Guitar Player, so I'm in bed with them. I subscribe to Time, so I'm in bed with them. And I subscribe to Virus Bulletin because, as a software developer, I'm not in the least bit interested in keeping up to date with various tests and results and opinions and articles and editorials from many of the industries leading authorities, representing many different leading anti-malware companies. No, I'm just in bed with them.

Hit a sore point there did I?

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 45):
Newsflash, Ted - I don't even use a Sophos product.

And? What does that have to do with your going hook line and sinker for the Virus Bulletin?
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IFEMaster
Topic Author
Posts: 4164
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:17 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:55 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 46):
Hit a sore point there did I?

Well, when you fail to address any of the facts at hand, but instead attempt to divert your arguements to the fact that I subscribe to an industry leading journal that has been in existence for 18 years (not just a couple of years like you assumed earlier), your whining does begin to get irritating.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 46):
And? What does that have to do with your going hook line and sinker for the Virus Bulletin?

Because I know the value of Virus Bulletin and you don't. Instead, you choose to infer that I somehow support VB because I'm "in bed" with Sophos. Wrong. Again.

Really Ted, are you sure you work in the I.T. industry? Surely someone who cleans up the mess that MCSE's leave behind would know exactly who and what a world renowned and industry respected organization such as VB are.

Again, come back to me when you know what you're talking about. Clearly you don't.
Delivering Anecdotes of Dubious Relevance Since 1978
 
WSOY
Posts: 822
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:24 pm

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:50 am

Free signup for a Vista antivir package -- VB100 awarded, 32-bit only http://support.f-secure.com/avvista/

[Edited 2007-02-07 22:51:43]
"Nukkuessa tulee nälkä" (Nipsu)
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: More Vista Security Woes

Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 47):
respected organization such as VB are.

 no  It's a British thing I guess.

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 47):
Again, come back to me when you know what you're talking about. Clearly you don't.

Oh you mean like this?:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/02/07/gates.security.ap/index.html
Now THAT is a security issue with Vista!!
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