wardialer
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New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:33 pm

There was a documentary report on CNN that the US Military is not conducting criminal backround checks when troops inlist for duty. Amoung them, are already fighting in Iraq with some major felony history like drug crimes, attempted murder, molestation, and rape crimes etc...

Do you think that its a good idea since are prisons are becoming overcrowded for felons to fight in war rather than spending time in prison?

I think, no matter how crowded the prisons are, they should stay and rot in prison rather than serve our Nation....

But my jaws just dropped after hearing how many troops esp. among the ones in Iraq are in fact inlisted with felony records....Its just disgusting.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:40 pm

Source?

Don't you think some of these folks can be rehabilitated? Don't you think there's room for improving one's life. There are limits of course.

I still want a source link. I'd rather read/see what CNN has to say, then your obviously biased verbiage.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
wardialer
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:45 pm

Hold on...I will tey to get it..But I hard it here in Europe which is here called CNN International.
 
piercey
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:48 pm

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):

I think your name enough allows me to post this:  redflag 
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:49 pm

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
There was a documentary report on CNN that the US Military is not conducting criminal backround checks when troops inlist for duty. Amoung them, are already fighting in Iraq with some major felony history like drug crimes, attempted murder, molestation, and rape crimes etc...

Do you think that its a good idea since are prisons are becoming overcrowded for felons to fight in war rather than spending time in prison?

I think, no matter how crowded the prisons are, they should stay and rot in prison rather than serve our Nation....

But my jaws just dropped after hearing how many troops esp. among the ones in Iraq are in fact inlisted with felony records....Its just disgusting.

This is the same CNN that ran footage of insurgent snipers picking off US troops and refused to provide intel. Glad to see them continue try and cut the military down. I think it's time to rename them AL CNN

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Source?

There's nothing at CNN.com yet. While I believe it maybe possible that some recruits may slip past backround checks initially, they're usually caught and dismissed form service when they're found out. I'd like to see compelling evidense before I pass judgement, but this smells like BS to me.
Made from jets!
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:51 pm

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 2):

Google should solve that problem.

I don't doubt that there are past criminals that serve in the Army. That being said, if they are up to the job, and have served their debt to society why not let them join the military.

The existence of a criminal in the military serves both parties, if the individual is dedicated the military gets a dood extra man, and conversely, the military offers an honorable lifestyle, a good wage and a level of discipline that would help prevent recidivism.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
cairo
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:45 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 4):
While I believe it maybe possible that some recruits may slip past backround checks initially



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Source?

When I was last working in Dallas year-around, in 2003, I worked in my free time with a group that works to get young (18-29) homeless people off the street.

For anyone who was mildly or more interested in the military, a recruiter was always eager to talk with them. Houston and Austin had similar 'recruiting programs'.

9 times out of 10 they had criminal backgrounds up to felonies like robbery and serious drug dealing.

This was only a MINOR issue to the recruiters from all 4 branches, and even when they would fail the pre-entry drug test, the army recruiters could always somehow get the recruit in. Missing a HS diploma? No problem. Serious drug issues? No problem. Felonies? Ignored.

The army guys would take anyone and numerous entries on numerous forms were either misleadingly left blank or otherwise inaccurate. They were the last possible ticket out of jail for a lot of young men.

The local judges and prosecutors were in on it too. I remember one especially amazing case where a young man had 10 or so felonies and was in jail on 25+ more charges, almost all drug related. His bail was over $100k. The army recruiter was called, all charges were dropped, and he was in Iraq within a few months.

I have to say that I then thought everyone was better off with them in Iraq, or wherever else they ended up, rather than living under an overpass in Dallas, which is precisely where they all lived when they weren't in jail.

A lot of them were just dumb kids, with little or no parenting, who needed a kick in the ass and were apparently rehabilitated by the military - I heard about many who went on to good or at least satisfactory careers.

In any event, I find the shocked reaction from those close to the military at this practice quite ridiculous. Much of the law enforcement, judicial, and charity communities in (at least several) major cities knows the military, especially the army, is a viable place to send young offenders you want out of your city, felonies or not.

Cairo
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:53 pm

Quoting Cairo (Reply 6):

There are limits, like I said above.

Sometimes, the military is a good place for some of these younger kids that have never had any direction. Sometimes it is not. Sometimes, the incorrigable ones make it through and that is not good.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 6):
A lot of them were just dumb kids, with little or no parenting, who needed a kick in the ass and were apparently rehabilitated by the military - I heard about many who went on to good or at least satisfactory careers.

My former platoon sergeant, from Ft. Hood, Texas - way back before most of your were a glimmer - was a convicted Felon. From Boston. One of the best damn soldiers I ever met. Taught me a lot. Straightened his like out and went on to retire from the Army as a First Sergeant.

The judge gave him a choice. Jail or Army. "John" said it was the smartest move he ever made. Helped him out, helped him up, made a productive citizen of him. Great wife and family too. Especially his daughter Sheri Leigh  biggrin  . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AeroWesty
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:54 pm

Here 'tis, it's in video form only at the moment, about 7 minutes long:

http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2007/02/...e.felons.military.cnn/content.html
International Homo of Mystery
 
Klaus
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:05 pm

I remember a report in a german TV magazine a few years ago.

In the wake of the Abu Ghraib scandal they investigated a bit about how the military selected personnel for the military prison system. It turned out that there was apparently an active selection being done for people with civilian background as prison guards with a known record of being "tough", with all that entails.

It puts the excesses that resulted not just in Abu Ghraib but also in other places in a much different context than just being individual failures of judgment.

You select and lead people in a certain way and it will show up in the results, still with plausible deniability for those who engineered it in the first place and who are acting all shocked and surprised when the intended results become public at last.

It's why I find the reluctance to look upwards to the higher ranks (military and civilian) especially deplorable when stuff like that happens...

And make no mistake - the mechanism works like that pretty much everywhere, not just in the US troops.
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:36 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
And make no mistake - the mechanism works like that pretty much everywhere, not just in the US troops.

In war these things happen to the best of troops, they are several examples in both WW2 and Vietnam, when troops are under strain, a lot of things happen. I am not excusing the behaviour, however I understand what can happen given the circumstances. All sides in WW2 used people that had records, with a promise to rescind the penalty when the war was over. We are only human beings and we do things under pressure that we would not normally do. They should face the full court and no cover ups, regardless of who it is. But unless you have walked a mile in their shoes, it is difficult for us to know what happened to make them snap
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
Klaus
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:54 pm

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 10):
In war these things happen to the best of troops, they are several examples in both WW2 and Vietnam, when troops are under strain, a lot of things happen.



Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 10):
But unless you have walked a mile in their shoes, it is difficult for us to know what happened to make them snap

My whole point is that it is often too easy to indict and jail the executing individuals when they basically performed as condoned or even encouraged from above.

While criminal culpability can still be correctly assigned among the lower ranks, there have been many examples in recent and in more distant history that the tone and implicit understanding set by the leadership will find expression in actions below.

Propaganda and "informal orders" don't exculpate the individual, but not even looking at how such a development originally came about is a mistake.

I don't think it's a problem per se having former felons or people with troubled backgrounds among the ranks; I believe in giving people chances, and in many cases that turns out well.

But when the spirit and understanding coming from above amounts to such things as "the gloves are off" and open discussions about the legalization of torture, it sets a tone which will be taken up by many, especially by those who have problematic tendencies regarding violence or demeaning others to boost their own self-image.

I'm sure there are many upstanding and respectable people in most armies, but the circumstances and the kind of leadership they're subjected to will make a difference in how everybody reacts to a given challenge.

I'm sure you know that better than most...
 
frequentflyer
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:15 pm

If somebody believes that Army folks are always beyond suspicion, well they are in for a surprise!
Some contingents of the French Army for example offer the possibility to adopt another identity upon joining. At one point it was a requirement.
Take off and live
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting Frequentflyer (Reply 12):

If the person is being sought after for serious offences like murder,rape that sort of thing, they are more likely to be turned over to Interpol (this wasn't the case in the past) . Taking a new identity is no longer mandatory.

Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
AirCop
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 7):
Sometimes, the military is a good place for some of these younger kids that have never had any direction.

Very true; there was been numerous success stories of members of the military that had a "rough" upbringing and turning their life's around.

Quoting Wardialer (Thread starter):
Amoung them, are already fighting in Iraq with some major felony history like drug crimes, attempted murder, molestation, and rape crimes etc...

Drug crimes; are we talking possession or sales? Most of the people convicted of attempted murder, rape would be doing prison time and wouldn't be able to enlist. Remember if you're found guilty of a charged and only arrested, in the eyes of the law, the event didn't happen.
 
Superfly
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:51 am

I doubt the Bush administration is in a position to be picky about who fights his war in Iraq. The idiot has gone as far as Mongolia in search of troops to fight his war.
Personally I don't have a problem with prisoners serving in the military. As ANCFlyer noted above, the military is a good avenue for these kinds of people to go to get there life in order.


I think its in poor taste to lump all felons in to one group of people that think and act the same way. There are various degrees of felons. A drug pusher (cocaine, meth retailers) certainly aren't the pillars of our society but I have no problem with them being able to enlist in the military. Obviously they are making a step in turning there life around.
I have a hard time believing that murderers, rapist or child molesters slipping through the cracks. Due to the level of the crime, there is publicity surrounding these cases and a high profile criminal wouldn't be able to slip through so easily.
Bring back the Concorde
 
AeroWesty
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:23 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
Drug crimes; are we talking possession or sales? Most of the people convicted of attempted murder, rape would be doing prison time and wouldn't be able to enlist. Remember if you're found guilty of a charged and only arrested, in the eyes of the law, the event didn't happen.

If you watched the video, it traced the case of a soldier, Bob Gidding, who was given a waiver for his jail time to serve in Iraq. His crime was arson, that he committed on another man's car when he learned his wife was pregnant, and accused her of having an affair with this other man. He was given a 3-year suspended sentence on top of 5 months in jail. One of the conditions of his sentence was that he was not to possess a gun.

The Army Reserve gave him a waiver in order to serve in Iraq before serving his sentence (he's actually been on two tours now, without having served his sentence), and even while it's never been clear by the Army's records if the ban on possessing a gun was lifted by the judge, Gidding was made into a military police officer.

One of the problems the story points out is that convicted felons are allowed to enlist and serve, and are continually promoted and given security clearances, with their numbers growing higher every year.
International Homo of Mystery
 
wardialer
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:10 am

But however...I think all BS myself....Because the US Military is a high role model to the rest of the worl and I really doubt that is really happening....

I think all BS...
 
AeroWesty
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:04 am

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 17):
I think all BS...

What's BS? The story? Your post? Please, give us a clue. I went to a lot of trouble to find the video and post it. The least you could do in return is offer the courtesy of some sense to your post.
International Homo of Mystery
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:25 am

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 17):
But however...I think all BS myself....Because the US Military is a high role model to the rest of the worl and I really doubt that is really happening....

The best sometimes cave in and do terrible things, saw it in Nam, so I know from first hand, sometimes people just snap for no reason and if they have a gun they will use it, if they think they are threatened. War brings out the worst and the best in all of us. the US Armed Forces are among the best in the world, however things like that happen. Very sad but also very true
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
Klaus
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 17):
But however...I think all BS myself....Because the US Military is a high role model to the rest of the worl and I really doubt that is really happening....

I think all BS...

Westy, I think he was being sarcastic...!  mischievous 
 
WrenchBender
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:31 am

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 17):
But however...I think all BS myself....Because the US Military is a high role model to the rest of the worl and I really doubt that is really happening....

So what is the point of your post then??
Most militaries around the world have admitted criminals to their ranks. The French Foreign Legion was famous for it, once you completed your time you came out with a clean identity and a French passport. I was in recruit school with at least half a dozen guys that were given a "choice" by a judge... It was pretty simple "join the military or go to jail". All of them made good careers in the Canadian Forces, and I know of one that is still in almost 28 years later.
As stated by some of the other members here it may be the only chance some of these guys have to actually straighten up and fly right.


WrenchBender
Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
 
AeroWesty
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
Westy, I think he was being sarcastic...!   

Well you just never know these days, there are so many tin-foil hat wearing lurkers around here.  worried 
International Homo of Mystery
 
Klaus
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 22):
Well you just never know these days, there are so many tin-foil hat wearing lurkers around here.

Indeed - but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt...!  mischievous 
 
AeroWesty
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 23):
but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt...

But you didn't go searching for the video, I did (so I get my 15 minutes of bitching).  angel 
International Homo of Mystery
 
Klaus
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:53 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 24):
But you didn't go searching for the video, I did (so I get my 15 minutes of bitching).

You're my hero!

(Must admit I didn't watch it as I've already heard similar reports from other sources over time.)
 
wardialer
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:15 pm

WrenchBender,

Well. even Hitler's army were given Methamphetamine....to purk them up and to fight even better...

Hence, EVEN US Air Force pilots and some around the world are given Methamphetamine too to enhance their pilot fighting skills.

So yes, I do agree that some military does some illegal admitting...
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:33 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):
I doubt the Bush administration is in a position to be picky about who fights his war in Iraq. The idiot has gone as far as Mongolia in search of troops to fight his war.

THis has nothing to do with the Bush Administration 'Fly. This policy has been around for decades. Too bad you'll have to wait for another thread for a Bush Bash.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 18):
What's BS?



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 18):
Your post?

 ziplip 

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 26):

This post is gibberish. What, exactly does Hitler, and meth, and the US Air Force have to do with felons serving in the military?
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Superfly
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 27):
THis has nothing to do with the Bush Administration

 redflag 
Isn't he the commander and chief?
Bring back the Concorde
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:57 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 27):
THis has nothing to do with the Bush Administration


Isn't he the commander and chief?

Same point I made with you in the other thread 'Fly . . .

Unwarranted and pointless Bush Bashing makes you look - foolish my friend.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AeroWesty
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
Isn't he the commander and chief?

To be fair, this entire thread was malformed from the start, and is heading towards something you'd see coming from a think tank headquartered at a trailer park (no offense to trailer parks, of course).

The fact is that there are more "criminals" serving in the armed forces than ever before, including those who've yet to serve their sentences before being shipped overseas. Clinton didn't do very much to support the military infrastructure, and we could have 3 or 4 threads on that alone. All of us stood by while historically important bases closed around the nation and the world, and not only did he sign "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", but an argument could be made that the armed forces are ill-equipped for the mission in Iraq due to many of his administration's decisions.

Certainly Pres. Bush has an equal amount to answer for, but one has to stop and first ask, does the President set policy or does the DoD set policy for how the armed forces conduct themselves. I don't know the answer to that, and I'd like to hear some input on how the current situation that's the topic of this thread was allowed to come about rather than the same tired bumper sticker quips we've all seen and heard ad nauseum.

Anyone willing to join me in that, or should we just lock this one up for being off-topic due to there never having been a clear topic to begin with?
International Homo of Mystery
 
Superfly
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:03 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
Unwarranted and pointless Bush Bashing makes you look - foolish my friend.

...and your rush to defend Bush makes you look - foolish my friend.
Bring back the Concorde
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:00 am

You know everyone blames the President, regardless of the party in power, when things go wrong with the military
1. The President is the CinC, but is he really? He is the one that signs the necessary papers to go to war, however he must do it with the approval of the Senate and Congress, except in a direct attack on the US mainland
2. The DoD is the one that dictates the day to day operation of the conflict, if you have a good Head of that Department then you can have a sucessful war effort(now don't all jump in and critise that statement)
3. In a lot of the cases the President is the last person to find out what is going on
4. The problem is that the various departments still operate as seperate entities and feel that they should not report anything to anyone except on a need to know basis
I could go on forever , but enough said
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
WrenchBender
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RE: New Study By CNN On US Troops With Felon History

Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting Wardialer (Reply 26):
WrenchBender,

Well. even Hitler's army were given Methamphetamine....to purk them up and to fight even better...

Hence, EVEN US Air Force pilots and some around the world are given Methamphetamine too to enhance their pilot fighting skills.

So yes, I do agree that some military does some illegal admitting...

 banghead 
Is it just me or did Stewie just arrive back on A.Net ?

WrenchBender
Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......

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