KROC
Topic Author
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Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:14 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/sow/news?slu...p-italy-violence&prov=ap&type=lgns

ROME (AP) -- Only six soccer stadiums in Italy meet security requirements, meaning that league games in other arenas will be played without fans following last week's death of a police officer during riots at a game in Sicily.

Well done Soccer. I haven't heard of any other sport having to be played without any fans in attendance because stadiums do not have enough security controls in place to deal with all your rioting. Perfect.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:20 pm

Quoting KROC (Thread starter):
Well done Soccer. I haven't heard of any other sport having to be played without any fans in attendance because stadiums do not have enough security controls in place to deal with all your rioting. Perfect.

And people make fun of the crowds at US sports events . . .

With rare exceptions, we might dress crazy, paint our faces (and other body parts) in our favorite team colors, wear fake cheese on our heads (Go Green Bay), but we rarely kill off a police officer and riot in the stands.

Shameful.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:21 pm

Quoting KROC (Thread starter):

Well done Soccer. I haven't heard of any other sport having to be played without any fans in attendance because stadiums do not have enough security controls in place to deal with all your rioting. Perfect.

I was watching the recent Six Nations rugby matches last weekend, and made the comment to my father that rugby and football fans are so removed from each other.

In football, the fans are seperated in the stands, restricted on refreshments and generally treated like the animals they are.

In rugby, the fans mix in the stands, can buy and drink alcohol on site, and are generally treated as human beings.

Fantastic.
 
aussie18
Crew
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:21 pm

Well its the few fans that go to the game that ruin it for everyone and guess Police and Security have made right decision and not allowing Fans at certain games.
 
lapper
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:24 pm

It's not fans or soccer related, it's all yobs and politics AFAIK
 
VHVXB
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:31 pm

Quoting KROC (Thread starter):

Well Well fancy that coming out of the most corrupt soccer league in Europe
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:36 pm

Quoting KROC (Thread starter):
Well done Soccer. I haven't heard of any other sport having to be played without any fans in attendance because stadiums do not have enough security controls in place to deal with all your rioting. Perfect

It is sad that we don't except games for what they are , GAMES, and not a war between sides. Since all the "stars" get so much money now, it seems the fans have gone crazy. A win at all costs, not for the enjoyment of the sport any more. Even kids now play as if there is no tomorrow, instead of playing it for the sport. Sad, really, sad
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
aloges
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:37 pm

Quoting KROC (Thread starter):
Well done Soccer.

Italian football - they won the World Cup and I loved that, but it's also right where my sympathy ends. It is not the same with all "soccer" leagues, but we all know you'll never tire of bashing it.  Wink
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
pelican
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:50 pm

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 6):

It is sad that we don't except games for what they are , GAMES, and not a war between sides. Since all the "stars" get so much money now, it seems the fans have gone crazy. A win at all costs, not for the enjoyment of the sport any more. Even kids now play as if there is no tomorrow, instead of playing it for the sport. Sad, really, sad

But then the phenomenon of hooliganism is nothing new to football (soccer for our American friends).

pelican
 
kaddyuk
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:51 pm

Quoting KROC (Thread starter):
I haven't heard of any other sport having to be played without any fans in attendance because stadiums do not have enough security controls in place to deal with all your rioting.

There should be no Rioting in the FIRST PLACE!!!
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
767Lover
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:54 pm

And I thought Europeans were supposed to be the most civilized people on earth.
 
KROC
Topic Author
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:04 pm

Quoting Aloges (Reply 7):
but we all know you'll never tire of bashing it.

 innocent   Wink

Quoting Kaddyuk (Reply 9):
There should be no Rioting in the FIRST PLACE!!!

Exactly. However.....

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 10):
And I thought Europeans were supposed to be the most civilized people on earth.

Ouch.

 
aloges
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:04 pm

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 10):
And I thought Europeans were supposed to be the most civilized people on earth.

We do love to be generalised, you know...
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
rammstein
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:05 pm

Quoting KROC (Thread starter):

ROME (AP) -- Only six soccer stadiums in Italy meet security requirements, meaning that league games in other arenas will be played without fans following last week's death of a police officer during riots at a game in Sicily.

Well done, I would say. I never attended a football/soccer game: never liked the presence of hot heads within the fans and the huge economic interests behind this sport (at least in Italy).

Said that, I lived for a few years nearby a stadium of "Serie A": it was always depressing to notice, after the end of a match, that within normal families with children there were delinquents ready to destroy anything they were able to reach.

If "their" team won or didn't wasn't important: they were there only to "relax" destroying cars/call boxes/road signs or punch the face of any police officer.

In my opinion, if the "national sport" here was something different, let's say rugby, it would be the same: those thugs/criminals would enjoy doing the same. The solution is simple: act firmly like UK did in the past with hooligans.
He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
Daleaholic
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:07 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 2):
In football, the fans are seperated in the stands, restricted on refreshments and generally treated like the animals they are.

You are an utter tool. Why am I an animal? I am not treated like an animal when I go to the football. Maybe if you went to a lower league game and saw what PROPER football is about, rather than the rubbish you see in the premiersh*t... you might have a different perspective on what proper fans are.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 2):
I was watching the recent Six Nations rugby matches last weekend

Says it all really  Yeah sure Egg chasers...
Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:18 pm

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 14):
You are an utter tool. Why am I an animal? I am not treated like an animal when I go to the football. Maybe if you went to a lower league game and saw what PROPER football is about, rather than the rubbish you see in the premiersh*t... you might have a different perspective on what proper fans are.

I agree that its different in the lower leagues, however its not the lower leagues that give people an opinion of a countries football fans internationally.

And unfortunately more often than not, there are animals that follow those teams around and will cause trouble whenever they are not segregated.

In rugby there isnt the disparity that exists between the football leagues and the premiership, and I think that goes a long way to helping.

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 14):
Says it all really Yeah sure Egg chasers...

At least rugby players dont get acting lessons  Yeah sure
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:36 pm

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 5):
Well Well fancy that coming out of the most corrupt soccer league in Europe

And a soccer league that still allows players like Di Canio to play, a man who openly does the Hitler Salute and in general just behaves like a mini-Mussolini, playing for the former Mussolini-owned team Lazio Rome, which also is still referred to as SS Lazio Rome.

You really can't judge European football in general based on what the Italians do, because compared to Italian football fans, a meeting between Galatasaray and Besiktas fans in Istanbul can be called a Peace Summit.
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:39 pm

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 13):
In my opinion, if the "national sport" here was something different, let's say rugby, it would be the same: those thugs/criminals would enjoy doing the same. The solution is simple: act firmly like UK did in the past with hooligans.

You are a good man Charlie Brown and you have hit the nail on the head. People today seem to think that going out, getting drunk and destroying everything in sight is the right thing to do. Now I should clarify , not everyone, just the punks and rabble rousers. When the police step in to break it up they are the bad guys and they are the ones that have done wrong. Where is our direction, between right and wrong. I also feel that our so called "stars" get paid way too much money and also through their fans they think they are God's gift to the world. Do you know what "fan" is short for, fanatic , there is your reason
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
rammstein
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:41 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 16):
And a soccer league that still allows players like Di Canio to play, a man who openly does the Hitler Salute

Agreed, he is really an idiot, but the league is worse.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 16):
which also is still referred to as SS Lazio Rome.

Well, actually "SS" stands for "Società Sportiva", quite common acronym in Italy; no connection to the nazi/fascist times.
He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:57 pm

Quoting KROC (Thread starter):
Well done Soccer. I haven't heard of any other sport having to be played without any fans in attendance because stadiums do not have enough security controls in place to deal with all your rioting. Perfect.

Yeah, because this has happened in the whole of Europe.  sarcastic 

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 10):
And I thought Europeans were supposed to be the most civilized people on earth.

A lot of generalisations on here. I take it as a sign that you don't know what you're talking about.

Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
KROC
Topic Author
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:59 pm

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 19):
Yeah, because this has happened in the whole of Europe.

Really? Stories of Soccer violence only happen in Italy? I guess all those stories I have heard and read all had the wrong locations.  Yeah sure
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:04 pm

Quoting KROC (Reply 20):
Really? Stories of Soccer violence only happen in Italy? I guess all those stories I have heard and read all had the wrong locations.



Quoting KROC (Thread starter):
I haven't heard of any other sport having to be played without any fans in attendance

Never said there's no football violence. Football matches being played without fans in attendance is only happening in Italy, not the rest of Europe.

Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
KaiGywer
Crew
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:08 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 2):
In rugby, the fans mix in the stands, can buy and drink alcohol on site, and are generally treated as human beings.

Which is also the way it is here in the uncivilised USA. We might hate the other team, but won't riot and kill people over it.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
BREmer
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:09 pm

I don't think you can classify these people as football/soccer fans. Hooliganism is a culture of its own, which is using the matches as a stage. They come there to beat the crap out of each other, not to watch a game and derby matches like the intra-Sicily one or Ajax vs. Feyernoord in Holland are of course most vulnerable to these riots because of the regional connection.

I grew up in Bremen close to the Weserstadion, back in the 80s there was a lot of hooliganism too. One match day against the HSV, we had to switch cars with my godmother and park hers in our garage. She was from Hamburg, and the mob would have probably set it on fire with the Hamburg license plate.
The situation here improved rapidly as soon as they started an anti-hooligan program all over Germany, including fan projects where police, fan representatives and club officials exchanged views and tried to tackle the problems. The police also started a black list which can be accessed by law enforcement all over the country. That way, they can make sure some people don't even make it to the stadium. On the downside, a lot of hooligan activity moved on into lower leagues.
But these things need to get started in Italy as well. "Ghost games" and massive police force at the games won't help.

Lukas
 
LHMark
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:12 pm

It's just as well they played to empty stadiums. With all the defensive lockdowns, pleading with the ref, diving, and general histrionics, not to mention collusion between team owners and match-fixing by officials, Serie A is pretty much unwatchable anyway.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
BREmer
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:20 pm

BTW: Has anyone noticed that the stadiums of Cagliari and Palermo are among the 6 considered safe? Nuff said.  Yeah sure
 
rammstein
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:31 pm

Quoting BREmer (Reply 23):
But these things need to get started in Italy as well. "Ghost games" and massive police force at the games won't help.

Agreed 100%.

Quoting BREmer (Reply 25):
BTW: Has anyone noticed that the stadiums of Cagliari and Palermo are among the 6 considered safe? Nuff said.

Paradoxically, this has very little to do with the police officer killed, the crime happened outside of the stadium, in a ordinary road.
He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
halls120
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:53 pm

Quoting Aloges (Reply 12):
Quoting 767Lover (Reply 10):
And I thought Europeans were supposed to be the most civilized people on earth.

We do love to be generalised, you know...

It is wrong to generalize as some have done in this thread.

But it is an interesting question. In American football, you just don't read about the kind of violence in the stands that you do with football outside the US. US sports fans (with the exception of Eagles fans, who were so bad at one point that there was a police substation at the Eagles stadium) generally don't get into fights in the stands or start mass uproar that results in people being trampled to death. In basketball, unless one of the players goes into the stands, it's pretty calm, in hockey, all the fighting is on the ice, and in baseball, the most you get is a beer dropped on your head if you are sitting in the lower level of the stadium.

Why does soccer result in such violence among the fans? I'm not trying to start anything - I'm asking this seriously.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
767Lover
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:02 pm

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 19):
Quoting 767Lover (Reply 10):
And I thought Europeans were supposed to be the most civilized people on earth.

A lot of generalisations on here. I take it as a sign that you don't know what you're talking about.

Dominic

Hmmm, I probably know as much as the Europeans who generalize about Americans every chance they get.

Pick a thread, any thread on Non Av and it's likely there is some generalization about American behavior contained within it.

Am I bitter? Probably.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 28):
Pick a thread, any thread on Non Av and it's likely there is some generalization about American behavior contained within it.

Conversly, pick any thread and theres also likely to be some negative connotations about the French...
 
ltbewr
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:27 pm

Over the years, there have been stupid fans acting stupidly at American sporting events including American Football, Baseball, basketball and so on, so Europe isn't alone in sports stadium and related violence.
There have been significant acts of violence, including near riot situations in some cities where the local college or pro teams have won championships, especially Detroit.
For many years, the Philadelphia Eagles National Football Team at their home stadium had the reputation for having the most nasty acting fans. They had a lot of city police at the stadium and even had a municipal court facility at their former home stadium to arrest and immediately start criminal procedures for those fans that committed criminal acts.
For many years, and especially since 9/11, there is strict security within and as you enter any major stadiums. While terrorist fears are part of the reason, it also done to keep out any bottles or objects that could be thrown at players or other attendees, that could contain alcoholic beverages to make more fans more drunk and disorderly. For years, if a fan gets stupid or gets into a fight or appears to be too drunk, they are removed by the security forces from the stadium.
I do hope that the Italian and other European fans of their beloved Football start to police themselves to prevent more acts of violence and the loss of them from being able to attend live matches.
 
saslover
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 10):
And I thought Europeans were supposed to be the most civilized people on earth.

Why is it at people must generalize in here. I'm a Dane living in Europe. And I would consider myself very civilized when I'm going to soccer every sunday. So not all of us are like that.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 28):
Hmmm, I probably know as much as the Europeans who generalize about Americans every chance they get.

I understand what you mean. And its really sad that it has to be like this. I know many americans who arent assholes as well. Just like americans know many Europeans that arent assholes.

But I like the fact that KROC did go thru all the work there was to klick into this news Big grin SHows that that there is a little soccerlover in him afterall  Wink
Pilot how soon can you land this plane. I can't tell. Yes you can tell me I am a doctor
 
cornish
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 26):
Quoting BREmer (Reply 25):
BTW: Has anyone noticed that the stadiums of Cagliari and Palermo are among the 6 considered safe? Nuff said.

Paradoxically, this has very little to do with the police officer killed, the crime happened outside of the stadium, in a ordinary road.

Just to clarify (for those less aware of what happened) the incident happened in Catania in Sicily, not Cagliari (on Sardinia) that the above poster mentioned as being one of those ironically considered safe. I'm not aware of Cagliari ever having much of a hooligan problem - maybe due to no close rivalries and Sardinia having far less social unrest problems than Sicily.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
pelican
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:36 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 27):

Why does soccer result in such violence among the fans? I'm not trying to start anything - I'm asking this seriously.

I don't know but I would guess its because of the hooligan subculture - at least in Europe. I've never heard that such things happen in connection with handball or (ice-) hockey - which are also popular in Germany.


Quoting 767Lover (Reply 28):
Am I bitter? Probably.

Don't respond - it's better for your heart. Generalisation happen all the time. You could end like Kroc with a serious "I've to bash Europeans and their stuff" agenda...

pelican
 
rammstein
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 27):
Why does soccer result in such violence among the fans? I'm not trying to start anything - I'm asking this seriously.

Really interesting question.

I'm not a psychologist, but:
1) Those violent people act violently only when they are in company of other people (other scum, I mean), they never act alone because they are a bunch of cowards, and they feel safer (e.g. difficult to arrest) when they are in a group.
2) The possibility to commit crimes is easier when done is a crowd, more people means less control.
3) The most famous/common sport in Europe is football/soccer, where there is plenty of people attending the matches.

If you sum the three factors, you have the shameful result.

Just my 0.02Euro.
He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
AirCop
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:59 pm

Isn't soccer played in the states to almost empty stadiums. Maybe the Europeans can learn from us.  devil 
 
Rj111
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 12:27 am

Association Football is just such an interesting sport it attracts all different kinds of people and not just fat, middle-aged balding Americans. Big grin The spectrum of people who enjoy it is so vast that inevitably scum who kill people are going to be involved.

Look at it this way, a mass murderer might enjoy drinking coke. Does that make everyone who drinks coke a mass murderer? Does that make coke a disgraced drink?
 
KROC
Topic Author
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:07 am

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 21):
Never said there's no football violence. Football matches being played without fans in attendance is only happening in Italy, not the rest of Europe.

Yeah well, I'm not seeing say Baseball or Hockey that is played in another country having to play in front of no fans because they cannot act right.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 28):
Hmmm, I probably know as much as the Europeans who generalize about Americans every chance they get.

Pick a thread, any thread on Non Av and it's likely there is some generalization about American behavior contained within it.

Am I bitter? Probably.

Have you checked out my latest blog? http://doncialini.blogspot.com I had a bit of fun with generalizations of Europeans...I'm surprised I didn't receive any death threats!  Wink

Quoting SASlover (Reply 31):
But I like the fact that KROC did go thru all the work there was to klick into this news SHows that that there is a little soccerlover in him afterall

Hey, it was front page on the yahoo homepage when I went to check my mail. It was like a bad car wreck, I had to look.
 
Derico
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting KROC (Reply 37):
Yeah well, I'm not seeing say Baseball or Hockey that is played in another country having to play in front of no fans because they cannot act right

What they should do is have schools teach in empty classrooms in the United States, because for all the holier-than-thou attitude I witness here about such violence never happening your country, I would rather have it happen in a stadium than in a school where young children or teenagers end up dead on a weekly basis. Or tell me if I'm lying.

Maybe you should save your outrage for that...
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
rammstein
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:05 pm

RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:29 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 38):
Quoting KROC (Reply 37):
Yeah well, I'm not seeing say Baseball or Hockey that is played in another country having to play in front of no fans because they cannot act right

What they should do is have schools teach in empty classrooms in the United States, because for all the holier-than-thou attitude I witness here about such violence never happening your country, I would rather have it happen in a stadium than in a school where young children or teenagers end up dead on a weekly basis. Or tell me if I'm lying.

He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
Thom@s
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting Lapper (Reply 4):
It's not fans or soccer related, it's all yobs and politics AFAIK

 checkmark 

Given the number of stadiums, and the millions of peolpe who go to see matches every week, it is no surprise that some idiots turn out to be more interested in an excuse to start a fight, than the actual match.

Thom@s
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people - does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toast toast?"
 
KROC
Topic Author
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 2:58 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 38):
What they should do is have schools teach in empty classrooms in the United States, because for all the holier-than-thou attitude I witness here about such violence never happening your country, I would rather have it happen in a stadium than in a school where young children or teenagers end up dead on a weekly basis. Or tell me if I'm lying.

Maybe you should save your outrage for that...

I have outrage at that too. However, the minute that the number of deaths from kids whacking out others in school reaches the lever of Soccer, then I will put it on the same pedestol as Soccer.
 
TheSorcerer
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting KROC (Reply 37):
Yeah well, I'm not seeing say Baseball or Hockey that is played in another country having to play in front of no fans because they cannot act right.

Neither am i, but if you want to bash people who caused this then you can bash the ultras and not football fans from all over Europe.

Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:08 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 27):
But it is an interesting question. In American football, you just don't read about the kind of violence in the stands that you do with football outside the US. US sports fans (with the exception of Eagles fans, who were so bad at one point that there was a police substation at the Eagles stadium) generally don't get into fights in the stands or start mass uproar that results in people being trampled to death. In basketball, unless one of the players goes into the stands, it's pretty calm, in hockey, all the fighting is on the ice, and in baseball, the most you get is a beer dropped on your head if you are sitting in the lower level of the stadium.

Why does soccer result in such violence among the fans? I'm not trying to start anything - I'm asking this seriously.

I think one reason is that many of us Europeans are still quite tribalistic when it comes to their country, city or even district of origin.
Since football clubs are much more than sports teams in the US traditionally connected with a certain region, football matches are often used as "substitute wars" of one region against another one, especially if e.g. one club represents a richer part of a town and the other one a poorer part (Upper class Bayern Munich versus working class 1860 Bayern).
Often the fans of football clubs are also divided on political lines, like e.g. Glasgow Rangers ans Celtic or FC Barcelona versus Real Madrid. Such rivalties often have a century old background and before footbal was invented used to be fought out on the battle field.


Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
767Lover
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:09 am

Quoting Pelican (Reply 33):
Quoting 767Lover (Reply 28):
Am I bitter? Probably.


Don't respond - it's better for your heart. Generalisation happen all the time. You could end like Kroc with a serious "I've to bash Europeans and their stuff" agenda...

LOL. Given that my mother's side of the family is from Manchester UK, I will always have a soft spot for our overseas friends.

I didn't realize my sarcasm would touch such nerves.
 
ZRH
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:22 am

The Italian football is absolutely corrupt and criminal. The clubs should be banned from all European competitions for at least five years like the english clubs were after the hooligan catastrophes.
 
PPVRA
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 43):
I think one reason is that many of us Europeans are still quite tribalistic when it comes to their country, city or even district of origin.
Since football clubs are much more than sports teams in the US traditionally connected with a certain region, football matches are often used as "substitute wars" of one region against another one, especially if e.g. one club represents a richer part of a town and the other one a poorer part (Upper class Bayern Munich versus working class 1860 Bayern).
Often the fans of football clubs are also divided on political lines, like e.g. Glasgow Rangers ans Celtic or FC Barcelona versus Real Madrid. Such rivalties often have a century old background and before footbal was invented used to be fought out on the battle field.

Interesting you mentioned "region."

Not in every case, for sure, but most of the time in the US there is one major football/baseball team in each state (or city), so there isn't much rivalry on a day to day basis.

In Sao Paulo and Rio for example, there are multiple soccer teams. If you include the greater area of these cities, including nearby cities (an hour or so away), it adds to even more.

But it is always the few that ruin for most people. . .

[Edited 2007-02-09 19:41:42]
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Scorpio
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting KROC (Reply 41):
the minute that the number of deaths from kids whacking out others in school reaches the lever of Soccer, then I will put it on the same pedestol as Soccer.

You make it sound like people dying from soccer violence is a common weekly occurrence. It most certainly is not. It happens very rarely. Just as rarely as people going into schools and killing a bunch of kids. None of this violence is excusable in any way, but you need to quit blowing these things out of proportion the way you constantly do.

The picture you've been painting here is one where almost every football match ends in a bloodbath, and everyone that attends a match is a brainless savage who goes to the game with a baseball bat looking for somebody's ass to kick. In reality 99% of these matches end without incidents, and only a very small minority of 'fans' are violent.

But hey, sitting there in the US, having attended all of, what, one, football game in your entire life makes you the one in a perfect position to judge...
 
KROC
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 47):
But hey, sitting there in the US, having attended all of, what, one, football game in your entire life makes you the one in a perfect position to judge...

I don't have to have attended a specific amount of Soccer games in my lifetime to read sports news and usually world news and see the frequency of Soccer violence. You can try and deny it, but me sitting in the U.S. can get a clear view.
 
Banco
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RE: Soccer To Be Played In Empty Stadiums

Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:05 am

Ah. Perfect American sports where there's never any trouble at all:

http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1660884,00.html

 Wink
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