BoomBoom
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College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:42 am

Quote:
Middlebury College history students are no longer allowed to use Wikipedia in preparing class papers.

The school's history department recently adopted a policy that says it's OK to consult the popular online encyclopedia, but that it can't be cited as an authoritative source by students.

The policy says, in part, "Wikipedia is not an acceptable citation, even though it may lead one to a citable source."

History professor Neil Waters says Wikipedia is an ideal place to start research but an unacceptable way to end it.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/cp_K021308AU.xml.html

I can understand why they're doing this. The open source method is too vulnerable to malicious people planting false information. On the other hand, "mainstream" encyclopedias are not necessarily infallible. Wikis are updated much more frequently.
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AirTranTUS
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:47 am

You can always go to the bottom of the Wikipedia page and find the article used to update Wikipedia (if possible) and cite that in your paper. Doing that is legal and handy.
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unoflygirl
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:52 am

Some of my instructors at Univ of Neb. at Omaha strongly argue against the use of Wikipedia. However, they haven't forbidden its use as long as it's not the sole source for all the information. I prefer not to use it unless I can't find anything else. I don't think it should be a forbidden source. I just think that people should exercise caution when using it, don't always know the complete accuracy of the information.

Karly
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EMBQA
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 1):
You can always go to the bottom of the Wikipedia page and find the article used to update Wikipedia

That is not always true. Not all information listed is backed by a source.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
N231YE
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:56 am

As a university student here, I can say that all of my professors have different policies to Wikipedia.

My Air Traffic Control class professor (who is an ATC'controller himself) said that use of Wiki as a source is allowed (with restrictions), but my English professor and the English department strictly prohibits it.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:59 am

As a rule, I start at Wikipedia, but I dont finish there. Its a useful tool to find what information you should actually be looking for, and pointing you in the right direction to find it. It is grossly wrong on some articles tho.
 
aace24
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:00 am

I always just stay safe and never use it as a source.

That way I don't have any problems regardless...
 
HPLASOps
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:20 am

Even 4 years ago when I was in college, almost every professor I had strongly said Wikipedia is not a valid source for anything - this really isn't news to me.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
skyservice_330
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:27 am

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 7):
this really isn't news to me.

Me either. At my university it is just a given that you don't use Wikipedia. You are supposed to write an academic paper using academic sources such as peer reviewed journal articles and books- Wikipedia is neither of these. Maybe it is a problem with incoming students hence the policy.
 
N1120A
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
On the other hand, "mainstream" encyclopedias are not necessarily infallible.

No, which is why they have never been considered authoritative sources. I learned that one in 6th grade.

Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
Wikis are updated much more frequently.

By 13 year olds with nothing better to do.

Wikipedia is pure academic and intellectual laziness. While it may give you a nice general idea of a subject, it can in no way be considered authoritative. I think that with the rise of the internet, particularly Wikipedia, they should make it a required class in high school to learn how to research using books. Start with a dictionary and go on from there.
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aa61hvy
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:44 am

I couldn't imagine citing that on a paper in college. Crap, my profs made me go to the library and search for books. We typically were only allowed 1 internet source per paper (minimum of 7 sources usually).

I wouldn't allow a WIKI source in my class either. I love it though just to read about random topics.
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nosedive
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:46 am

Pretty much the same rules as above.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
I think that with the rise of the internet, particularly Wikipedia, they should make it a required class in high school to learn how to research using books.

I share a lot of your sentiment, but there's nothing wrong w/ JSTOR or even lexusnexus (though newspaper articles after your 200 level classes begin to get more and more scrutinized).
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:47 am

While it wasn't outlawed at the University of Windsor, it certainly was not encouraged, and papers that used it never seemed to get the marks of those that didn't. As a rule I would never use it writing a paper, most of the information on Wikipedia is available at the University library anyhow, just a matter of spending some time looking for it.
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Nancy
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:50 am

Since most college students have access to multiple academic databases (LexisNexis, JSTOR) using Wikipedia is totally pointless. It might be right, but it is also "some guy said".
 
desertjets
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:55 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
No, which is why they have never been considered authoritative sources. I learned that one in 6th grade.

Tertiary sources, such as encyclopedias are generally not acceptable in a research paper plain and simple. You wouldn't use the World Book Encyclopedia on a college level paper, same thing applies w/ Wikipedia.

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 11):
I share a lot of your sentiment, but there's nothing wrong w/ JSTOR or even lexusnexus

And as a university student you have access to a wide variety of good, full-text databases through your library. Hell, you don't even have to physically go to to library to use them. The thing w/ JSTOR in particular is that all the articles are sourced from peer-reviewed academic journals. These are primary sources and have undergone considerable scrutiny prior to publication. Lexus-Nexis pulls primarily from mainstream periodicals... so you need to be careful in how you use them.

Quoting AA61Hvy (Reply 10):
I love it though just to read about random topics.

Same here. Its a nice reference source, but that is all its good for.... reference.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
N1120A
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:01 am

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 11):
but there's nothing wrong w/ JSTOR or even lexusnexus (though newspaper articles after your 200 level classes begin to get more and more scrutinized).

I use LexisNexis every day (prefer it to Westlaw) because it is a much easier way to find case law than combing through a library, but I still have to look to the actual cases, which are published somewhere else. My point was that book research needs to be there to provide the fundamental foundation for a researcher and then that can be built on by internet sources.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
nosedive
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:05 am

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 14):
Lexus-Nexis pulls primarily from mainstream periodicals... so you need to be careful in how you use them.

Well aware, hence the 200 level warning. A huge problem with JSTOR is the 5 yr lag, I'm assuming for copyright and intellectual property integrity.

Internet sources, however, are another story. Some of my teachers dismissed them, but as a whole many would accept the source so long a) as I used a full APA (never cared much for MLA) citation and b) used an online source that served as an online copy to a print source: academic journals, government documents, legal citaitions, and newspaper/ magazine articles.

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 14):
Hell, you don't even have to physically go to to library to use them.

Helping make America fatter  

EDIT:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
My point was that book research needs to be there to provide the fundamental foundation for a researcher and then that can be built on by internet sources.

Personally, your point is acknowledged in many (mandatory) freshman level seminars, not to mention in many English 101 classes.

[Edited 2007-02-14 01:09:18]
 
Dougloid
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
Quote:
Middlebury College history students are no longer allowed to use Wikipedia in preparing class papers.

The school's history department recently adopted a policy that says it's OK to consult the popular online encyclopedia, but that it can't be cited as an authoritative source by students.

The policy says, in part, "Wikipedia is not an acceptable citation, even though it may lead one to a citable source."

History professor Neil Waters says Wikipedia is an ideal place to start research but an unacceptable way to end it.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/cp_K021308AU.xml.html

I can understand why they're doing this. The open source method is too vulnerable to malicious people planting false information. On the other hand, "mainstream" encyclopedias are not necessarily infallible. Wikis are updated much more frequently.

The problem you have is that too often students view wikipedia as the end, rather than the beginning. I've got no problems with my students using it as a point of departure but as far as an authoritative and peer reviewed source it's nonexistent, as is citation to nearly everything on the internet, sadly enough.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
I think that with the rise of the internet, particularly Wikipedia, they should make it a required class in high school to learn how to research using books. Start with a dictionary and go on from there.

I couldn't agree more.

With respect to the legal stuff, if you first learn how to research in hard copy and master the West system of W&P, CJS, digest, annotated codes and reporters, nothing in the internet, lexis or westlaw will ever confuse you. On the other hand, if all you know about it is using L/N or W on the tube, what in the hell are you going to do when the lights go out or your laptop hits the deck-ask for a continuance? At my boot camp, the first semester and most of the second was "In the library-hard copy!" They wouldn't let us have access until halfway through the 2d half of the first year.
But, if you learned systematic research in the books, the internet makes your life more pleasant.

See, here's the deal. What people doing legal research the allegedly "new" way don't understand is that it's still a print medium, it's just displayed on a screen and a little more searchable.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
NWA742
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:31 am

I don't see a big problem with that - Wikipedia is extremely handy for beginning research, but it's not the end all be all.



-NWA742
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gunsontheroof
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:51 am

Good call on the college's party. It's fine to use Wikipedia for preliminary research, but if you're going to site something you read there you should probably look up the citation (I don't touch anything on Wikipedia that isn't cited), validate its validity and use that for your footnotes/bibliography. Web citations that aren't official government documents or news reports generally look pretty sketch in my opinion, so I generally try to track down the original source of anything I read online when doing research.
 
desertjets
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:04 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
My point was that book research needs to be there to provide the fundamental foundation for a researcher and then that can be built on by internet sources.

Searching through the stacks, you know those things with the books on em, can often times be very useful too. You'll often find materials that you would have never uncovered in a database search.

In my experience the most useful resource for doing research are bibliographies in materials that I find in my first pass through.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:21 am

Why would anyone cite Wikipedia? That's as good as citing "A drunk guy named Bob who I found sitting in a booth at Hardee's last Tuesday night."

Mark
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BoomBoom
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Sou

Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
No, which is why they have never been considered authoritative sources. I learned that one in 6th grade.

Then the college should ban all encyclopedia cites; not just Wikis.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Wikis are updated much more frequently.

By 13 year olds with nothing better to do.

That's a rather unfair characterization, or are you just trolling?

[Edited 2007-02-14 02:23:46]
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
desertjets
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:30 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 22):
Then the college should ban all encyclopedia cites; not just Wikis.

Cite World Book or Encyclopedia Brittanica in your next college paper and let me know how that goes. Tertiary sources are not acceptable, whether they be Brittanica or Wikipedia.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
LHboyatDTW
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:55 am

I've done research papers since the 7th grade and am currently doing one on alternate fuel sources. I'm not 100% sure on the use of Wikipedia as a source, but from my experiences of doing a research paper, citing an encyclopedia seems to be a big taboo in terms of term papers so I never bother even looking at them unless it's as a last resort.

I can think of many English teachers that would commit homicide by even seeing someone cite an encyclopedia. At times it helps me in English, but I would never ever use it for a term paper.

Though as far as classes for learning how to find research in books, they should have Citing 101 as I seem to find that a royal pain in the ass for any term paper.
The air in the clouds is very pure and fine, bracing and delicious because it's the same the angels breathe.
 
MaidensGator
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
I use LexisNexis every day (prefer it to Westlaw) because it is a much easier way to find case law than combing through a library, but I still have to look to the actual cases, which are published somewhere else. My point was that book research needs to be there to provide the fundamental foundation for a researcher and then that can be built on by internet sources.

I use West only because they gave us a better deal than Lexis last year. I like being able to cut and paste my quotes from the cases into my briefs....

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 20):
Searching through the stacks, you know those things with the books on em, can often times be very useful too. You'll often find materials that you would have never uncovered in a database search.

I find the same in legal research. Going through the books I often find the case I need that I missed because I didn't phrase my search exactly right. Many times I've been scanning a key number and what I need is on the next page.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
Quoting BoomBoom (Thread starter):
On the other hand, "mainstream" encyclopedias are not necessarily infallible.

No, which is why they have never been considered authoritative sources. I learned that one in 6th grade.

Same with legal authority, the encyclopedias such as AmJur or CJS are only persuasive, while the cases can be binding.

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 17):
At my boot camp, the first semester and most of the second was "In the library-hard copy!" They wouldn't let us have access until halfway through the 2d half of the first year.

Same with mine. I've noticed the law clerks we hire (usually 2nd or 3rd year) are getting more and more reliant on the computer and less skillful with the books.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:20 am

Quoting LHboyatDTW (Reply 24):
Though as far as classes for learning how to find research in books, they should have Citing 101 as I seem to find that a royal pain in the ass for any term paper.

Isn't that what you learn in your first-semester freshman English class? I did.

I found the university's policy change to utilize APA style to be wicked. It happened in the middle of my senior year of my undergrad program. What a dirty trick. I had to reformat an entire research project report. That's before we had computers.  crazy 

Mark
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scottieprecord
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 9):
I think that with the rise of the internet, particularly Wikipedia, they should make it a required class in high school to learn how to research using books.

Haha. We tried that in English last year. Our whole AP English group (50 or so) took a trip up to San Marcos to research at the Texas State library. Everyone ended up pissed off, and over half the class failed the assignment. lol. I was even more pissed off because it caused me to miss the first day of the San Antonio airshow...

-Mike
 
BoomBoom
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:55 am

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 25):
Same with mine. I've noticed the law clerks we hire (usually 2nd or 3rd year) are getting more and more reliant on the computer and less skillful with the books.

Where I work we have statutes and regulations in books or online, they're the exact same thing. It's a blurry line, not a bright one, between bound paper and the computer.

E-textbooks are gaining popularity, students can simply download the digitized text to their laptop or home computer. Just because something is found online or electronically, doesn't make it inferior.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/s...1ad-4e1a-9f96-83c1f62d7c5f&k=94502
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WellHung
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:01 pm

If students can't take the time to do their own research instead of relying on an Internet site, their time would be better spent digging ditches instead of putting their parents in debt for an education they'll never get.
 
Gemuser
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 14):
The thing w/ JSTOR in particular is that all the articles are sourced from peer-reviewed academic journals. These are primary sources and have undergone considerable scrutiny prior to publication.

Not to be overly picky, but these are secondary sources, ALL published sources are secondary or lower. Primary sources are the unpublished sources from which publications are written. Primary sources include research observations, instrument readings, notes and records, etc of the original research.

Gemuser
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MaidensGator
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Sou

Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:11 pm

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 28):
Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 25):
Same with mine. I've noticed the law clerks we hire (usually 2nd or 3rd year) are getting more and more reliant on the computer and less skillful with the books.

Where I work we have statutes and regulations in books or online, they're the exact same thing. It's a blurry line, not a bright one, between bound paper and the computer.

E-textbooks are gaining popularity, students can simply download the digitized text to their laptop or home computer. Just because something is found online or electronically, doesn't make it inferior.

I totally agree that electronic material is not inferior. I use it daily. My observation has been that law students are becoming more reliant on the computer and becoming less efficient because of it. The answers to many legal questions can be found more quickly by going to the proper book rather than doing Boolean searches that produce dozens of hits. As I mentioned, I do computer research on a daily basis. It's important to find the right balance between that and using the available books.

West made a big push a few years ago to sell us the law books on CD rather than book form. The only problem is, if you don't purchase the electronic update every year, the CD won't work anymore. If you buy the book, it still works; it just doesn't have the latest pocket part.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
Dougloid
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:44 pm

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 25):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 17):
At my boot camp, the first semester and most of the second was "In the library-hard copy!" They wouldn't let us have access until halfway through the 2d half of the first year.

Same with mine. I've noticed the law clerks we hire (usually 2nd or 3rd year) are getting more and more reliant on the computer and less skillful with the books.

See, here's the deal.

Ever wonder why they've got those big tables in the library-they're for opening up a dozen reporters or so. If you once learn the West system through the digests, annotated codes, W&P, CJS, and the reporters, you get an idea of the genius of Mr. West back in 1870 or thereabouts. It's a transparent system you can enter and exit at any point and follow your research thread wherever it takes you-up and down, across state lines, and across time through the Decennials. All by lamplight. And that suggests two things. First, the notion of vendor neutral citation is one that should be resisted with fire and sword by every right thinking researcher, and second, if you once learn to navigate the West system you'll be able t oresearch anything, anywhere, any time. People who know only CALR are in a great sense pitching darts into a dark room hoping they'll hit something useful. If vendor neutral ever becomes the rule, we'll have the anarchy that prevailed before West came along in the 1870s. It'll balkanize legal research for decades to come.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 28):
E-textbooks are gaining popularity, students can simply download the digitized text to their laptop or home computer. Just because something is found online or electronically, doesn't make it inferior.

Most of my students hate the e-textbooks the school provides and end up buying a used copy of the hard cover off of Amazon or similar resellers. The e-books simply aren't portable enough for most people and you can't high light em.

Another point is that in legal research, the official for the record source is in most places a printed volume of the official reporter.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
BoomBoom
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Sou

Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 32):
Most of my students hate the e-textbooks the school provides and end up buying a used copy of the hard cover off of Amazon or similar resellers. The e-books simply aren't portable enough for most people and you can't high light em.

From the article I linked to:

Quote:
They can highlight and take notes in the margins with special software.

I imagine it will take time for students to warm to ebooks. I remember when newspapers first appeared online, for several years I still preferred the hard copy. Now I would never go back. I can easily make the font larger for easy reading, I can save articles to my hard drive and easily search for them. No more news print on my fingers.

Whenever a report comes out at work, I always ask for a Word or PDF copy, which I can file easily, find easily and search. There are also programs that allow you to add sticky notes to computer documents.

I think its a generational thing. Perhaps in twenty years paper textbooks will all but disappear.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
jush
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:54 pm

Do not cite wikipedia... standard at our university since.... ever.
I think it is correct.
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saxdiva
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:23 pm

When I assign papers, I caution people that Wikipedia is not considered a credible source, and that I'd better see some REAL references in their work. That said, I do ask people to cite it as a source if they resort to it for some reason.

Why? Because there are worse things than students who use Wikpedia to do research: Believe it or not, some actually have the nerve to PLAGIARIZE it.

Nowadays, I'm given to chopping off their heads.  Angry
 
KaiGywer
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:59 pm

Like Saxdiva said, we are allowed to use Wikipedia as a secondary source, but all points in the paper need to be proven by a reputable source. Some professors also require at least a certain amount of non-online material, be it books, magazines, journals, etc.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
trvyyz
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:05 pm

Wikipedia is not a source but a rough guide that may lead you to the right source if you are lucky.
 
pelican
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting Jush (Reply 34):
Do not cite wikipedia... standard at our university since.... ever.

It's the same here. Nonetheless wikipedia has become a usfull tool to get a brief overview of a topic.

pelican
 
Dougloid
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:19 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 33):
I think its a generational thing. Perhaps in twenty years paper textbooks will all but disappear.

Not entirely sure about that....my students are all pretty young. I mean, it works for some of them, for some it doesn't. It's certainly not anything I'm interested in either. Thomson allows the student one download. So if the computer crashes or the download misfires, they're screwed. Plus a lot of them simply do better with hard copy.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
KaiGywer
Crew
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:36 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 39):
Plus a lot of them simply do better with hard copy.

The thing is...although laptops are fairly portable, my eyes still prefer reading a book rather than reading on the screen.

I guess optometrists would be happy if we all read off a screen though  Smile
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
jcs17
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:13 am

What the hell? Since when is this news? I've always had professors tell our classes not to cite Wikipedia because you will lose points if you do. I don't think I've had a professor in 4.5 years of college tell me that it's an acceptable source.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
BoomBoom
Topic Author
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:06 am

Quoting Jcs17 (Reply 41):
What the hell? Since when is this news?

Not really news. The reason I posted it was because there is always some controversy when people cite Wikipedia in these forums. Some people just automatically dismiss it as unreliable. Of course, we also know many newspapers articles also contain errors.

Naturally, the standards for these forums is different from that of college papers.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
ctbarnes
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:02 pm

When I was teaching, I had no problem with research from the internet, but it had to be from scholarly sources and/or primary texts. There are pleanty of both out there and a number of universities are putting a fair amount of public domain primary content on their servers. Sites like Jstor, or Ebsco Host can be a godsend for research because it can save hours of digging through journals, having to find misshelved journals or digging through the pile next to the copy machine. I also made a point of banning Wikipedia.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 26):
I found the university's policy change to utilize APA style to be wicked. It happened in the middle of my senior year of my undergrad program. What a dirty trick. I had to reformat an entire research project report. That's before we had computers.

I bet you had to trudge through the snow 10 miles to school too...  Big grin  old 

Seriously though, I'm on my fourth citation style, and believe you me it's a pain in the ass. Health administration uses AMA, A lot of the other humanities use MLA, Nursing uses APA and the house style at our seminary is Turabian. And just to keep things interesting, if you do any writing a lot of journals have their own rules about citations that have nothing to do with any of these four.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
jcs17
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:00 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 26):

In high school, and I went to a decent private school in Atlanta, we were always told to cite using MLA criteria because that's what the universities want. Wouldn't you know it, f'ing a, I've never had a paper where I could cite using MLA format. It's all APA formatting. I've gotten used to it now, but what a pain in the ass. You'd think at some point there would be some kind of conference where loser professors and loser teachers gathered around and decided on an official citation format.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
saxdiva
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting Jcs17 (Reply 44):
You'd think at some point there would be some kind of conference where loser professors and loser teachers gathered around and decided on an official citation format.

Naw, we just prefer to keep the loser students guessing.
 
desertjets
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting Saxdiva (Reply 45):
Quoting Jcs17 (Reply 44):
You'd think at some point there would be some kind of conference where loser professors and loser teachers gathered around and decided on an official citation format.

Naw, we just prefer to keep the loser students guessing.

That and I am sure there is some scam between MLA, APA, Chicago, etc to make us buying those damn style guides.

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 43):
house style at our seminary is Turabian

I hate Turabian with a passion. I used that in my history major and for the life of me I was never able to figure it out. In my senior capstone seminar I remember my prof showing us how to properly cite primary documents from manuscript collections and such. It seemed like you put down the info you need in a random order, then sprinkle commas and semi-colons around at pre-determined intervals.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
ozglobal
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:28 am

Citing Wikipedia as a research source in serious study is a pretty lazy approach.

Webster's Encyclopedia, however, used to state that Sydney was the capital of Australia. Believe they've finally changed this. Are they blacklisted too?
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
N1120A
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting Scottieprecord (Reply 27):
Haha. We tried that in English last year. Our whole AP English group (50 or so) took a trip up to San Marcos to research at the Texas State library. Everyone ended up pissed off, and over half the class failed the assignment.

See the problem there?

Quoting Scottieprecord (Reply 27):
I was even more pissed off because it caused me to miss the first day of the San Antonio airshow...

Well, that does suck

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 25):
I use West only because they gave us a better deal than Lexis last year.

That is shocking considering West's reputation for being the pricer one.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 25):
Same with legal authority, the encyclopedias such as AmJur or CJS are only persuasive, while the cases can be binding.

Naturally. Then again, AmJur can be a good place to find case citations on an issue.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 25):
Same with mine. I've noticed the law clerks we hire (usually 2nd or 3rd year) are getting more and more reliant on the computer and less skillful with the books.

The big problem is that a lot of law schools now only update the readers for their home state, saying that anything else can be found on the internet. Further, they no longer train on library research and push the hell out of Lexis and Westlaw training.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 22):
That's a rather unfair characterization, or are you just trolling?

Actually, it is a toned down version of what I usually say about it.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 22):
Then the college should ban all encyclopedia cites; not just Wikis.

They do.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Tom in NO
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RE: College: Students My Not Cite Wikipedia As Souce

Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting OzGlobal (Reply 47):
Citing Wikipedia as a research source in serious study is a pretty lazy approach.

Agreed.....to me Wikipedia is to research/report writing what Texas Instruments was to math years and years ago...a lazy way to do to your homework.

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina

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