baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

MEPs Approve Damning CIA Report

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:17 pm

It looks as if extraordinary rendition has some way to run from the European side.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6360817.stm

"The European parliament has approved a damning report on secret CIA flights which condemns member states that turned a blind eye to the operations.

The UK, Germany and Italy were among 14 states which allowed the US to forcibly remove terror suspects, MEPs said.

The EU parliament voted to accept a resolution condemning member states who accepted or ignored the practice.

The EU report said the US had operated 1,200 flights, flying suspects on to states where they could face torture.

The report was adopted by a large majority, with 382 MEPs voting in favour, 256 against and 74 abstaining. "

It seems unlikely to be the end of the matter.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: MEPs Approve Damning CIA Report

Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:34 pm

Quoting Baroque (Thread starter):
It seems unlikely to be the end of the matter.

Hopefully it won't be! The grey area our secret services operate in needs to be sized back down to something more in line with justice and due process, lest their poor standards start gaining more influence on our daily lives.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: MEPs Approve Damning CIA Report

Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 1):
Hopefully it won't be! The grey area our secret services operate in needs to be sized back down to something more in line with justice and due process, lest their poor standards start gaining more influence on our daily lives.

We know of Habib (now standing in our state election) and Hicks who were subject to a form of rendition. However, for all we know, there could be many more.

I am looking to Europe to start ferreting out what has really been going on. It seems clear that our spooks are involved too, which is why what we know is minimal.

Hicks head jailer is about to come on our overnight radio talkback. Maj Mori his splendid US defence lawyer was on the same program last week.

The west needs help from its peoples, but these sorts of secret goings on are just the way to irritate the very folk who you need for support.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: MEPs Approve Damning CIA Report

Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting Baroque (Thread starter):
It seems unlikely to be the end of the matter.

No, it most probably won't be, and that is officially A Good Thing!  mischievous 

Undoubtedly there were some actual perpetrators among the many innocents who were abducted and tortured on behalf of the CIA, but that is still completely and absolutely unacceptable for any nation claiming to stand for freedom and justice.

I very much hope that the investigations will continue on the respective national level and I would hope that those who collaborated will be indicted and punished, as difficult as it will undoubtedly be.
 
Schoenorama
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Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 5:15 am

RE: MEPs Approve Damning CIA Report

Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:37 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
I very much hope that the investigations will continue on the respective national level and I would hope that those who collaborated will be indicted and punished, as difficult as it will undoubtedly be.

...specially when (former) government officials prefer to keep their mouths shut.

Spanish El Pais newspaper revealed yesterday that in July 2002 the Aznar Government send police-officials to Guantanamo to "interview" prisoners, an issue on which the PP has been very quite about during the past few years.

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/espan.../elpepuesp/20070214elpepunac_5/Tes (in spanish)
Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: MEPs Approve Damning CIA Report

Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:28 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
I very much hope that the investigations will continue on the respective national level and I would hope that those who collaborated will be indicted and punished, as difficult as it will undoubtedly be.

The chief jailer (sorry I forgot his name) at Gitmo was on talk back radio here last night as predicted. His main argument for the path of HIcks' treatment was that he was an illegal combatant and that this was a person not in uniform and not in an army. Well apart from the niceties of the definition of uniforms and armies, it occurred to me that the CIA operatives fit this definition really nicely. I wonder if any country will be game enough to snatch a few CIA folk off their streets on the same grounds.

Most of the questions to him were from talk back call ins so not well focused, but there might be an ongoing flow of information from this "black hole". And then, who knows how many other black holes might start to yield information.

This US administration seems to have an almost obsessive view that its power is totally untrammelled inside the US and outside it. Will we see a "trammelling" process develop?
 
NAV20
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: MEPs Approve Damning CIA Report

Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 5):
This US administration seems to have an almost obsessive view that its power is totally untrammelled inside the US and outside it. Will we see a "trammelling" process develop?

Unfortunately, what this business has highlighted is that any country can disregard the provisions of the Geneva Conventions if it chooses - and there are no international sanctions which can prevent this. The US Supreme Court determined that the USA was in breach of the Conventions in its recent decision - but could only require that the Executive complied with them from now on. For obvious reasons it could not apply any penalties.

It's quite interesting that the invention of the whole 'enemy combatant' business (those actual words do not appear anywhere in the Conventions) seems to have flowed from a bit of 'speed-reading' of the relevant Convention - fastening on Article 4, which provides that people not wearing uniform, not under command, etc. may not qualify for protection.

However, whoever did the speed-reading didn't even bother to read the following Article 5, which says:-

"Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act and having fallen into the hands of the enemy, belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4, such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal.'

In other words, given that none of the prisoners at Gitmo (and especially none of the people subjected to 'rendition') have had their 'status determined' by any sort of 'competent tribunal,' they remain entitled to the full privileges afforded to prisoners of war.

And the USA therefore remains in flagrant breach of the Geneva Conventions.

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