PanAmOldDC8
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Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:42 am

Usama Bin Laden wants the oil facilities of Mexico, Venezuela and Canada targeted and destroyed. He also wants wants videos taken of the destruction so he can show the world. This was published on the Voice of the JIhad. The statement said that we need to kill the economy of the evil Americans before they get the new technology, then they won't need Middle Eastern oil.
This was publish on a Fox/CNN news headline
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PanAmOldDC8
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:05 am

Now posted all over the Canadian News sites as well
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andessmf
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:10 am

Finally saw it on the news myself. Surprised no one has posted on this.

So now they are advocating attacks on countries that are associated to the US, via oil. That's nice.

Now, who is al-Qaeda NOT targetting?
 
Queso
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:17 am

Sounds like he still has some oil company stock that is suffering since the price of oil has fallen back a bit. The SEC is gonna be pissed when they find out he's talking like this in public!
 
Falcon84
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:18 am

Ah, but he doesn't want ARAB oil destroyed?

I see.

And it must be obvious he's not a big fan of Chavez, who is now an Iranian ally.

It's time to find this turd and take him out.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
andessmf
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting Queso (Reply 4):
The SEC is gonna be pissed when they find out he's talking like this in public!

At least now you can make a criminal matter again.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:22 am

Oh wow, suddenly Osama appears in the picture again. Haven't heard from him in so long... I mean after all I was beginning to think that Saddam was responsible for 9-11  Yeah sure
 
AirCop
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
It's time to find this turd and take him out.

Actually its been time for the past 10 or so years!

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 5):
And it must be obvious he's not a big fan of Chavez, who is now an Iranian ally.

Cuba and Iran great company Chavez is keeping these days.

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Thread starter):
Bin Laden wants the oil facilities of Mexico, Venezuela and Canada targeted and destroyed.

Guess the security around the oil facilities will increase..
 
L-188
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:21 am

Ahh Osama....what a chowderhead.

Don't you just love how he specified that these attacks need to happen before oil alternatives such as E85 become more prevelent.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:36 pm

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Thread starter):
Usama Bin Laden wants the oil facilities of Mexico, Venezuela and Canada targeted and destroyed. He also wants wants videos taken of the destruction so he can show the world. This was published on the Voice of the JIhad

The nerve of him! Tell you what? Let's target that miscreant and the rest of his extended $$$ family.
I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:55 pm

Isn't OBL not Existing anymore.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 10):
Isn't OBL not Existing anymore.
regds

He lives out there somewhere on the edge of space
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cairo
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:51 am

It should be noted, I think, that the proximate source of this threat is a

Saudi Arabian terrorist group

...'making the statements as part of OBL's declared policy.' *

The hypocrisy in not addressing the Saudis' role in terrorism and the Iraqi insurgency is part of the failure of US policy in the ME.

Cozying up to the Saudis, just because they temporarily offer some semblence of alliance to the US, has of course backfired, and will only cause ever-more-serious consequences...as it always does when the US supports repressive regimes. (see how US support of the Shah & Saddam ended up backfiring on the US)

Cairo

*
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252098,00.html
 
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scbriml
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 9):
Let's target that miscreant and the rest of his extended $$$ family.

Er, wouldn't you need to know where he is first? scratchchin 

Anyway, I though Shrub didn't care where OBL is any more?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
174thfwff
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:07 am

Osama is now the Uncle Sam for terrorists... people have to see that "terrorists" are bad people that want to cause harm, and we have to go to them before they come to us. I sadly see that people and countries will still cry for peace until they get bombed and their oil factories get blown up before they will take any action.

Blank threats or not, people who even think about taking part in something like this should be hunted down and killed. I am not a man of god, so there are reasons why I think killing these people are justified. Good > Evil
Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, Staten, Uptown, what now? Lets make it happen.
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 6):
Haven't heard from him in so long...

I think I saw him last week in Philadelphia boarding a USAirways flight. The TSA was saying something about his tube of toothpaste being over 3oz
"Wouldn't your boss like to fly home nonstop at 4:30 on a Friday afternoon?" -Airline Exec to Congressional Staffer
 
baroque
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:49 am

He seems a bit confused so that probably makes it difficult to prevent whatever it is he wants to do, because it rather looks as if he has no clear idea either! Attacking oil targets might not be as easy as it seems. Saddam was the last to have a go and fairly amazingly, the wells were all shut in within about 9 months IIRC. Tankers might be more difficult to protect, although all or almost all are now double hulled.

I have a feeling Osama feels a need to make these speeches in order to live up to the reputation that he has been given. I have a suspicion that he takes credit for far more "operations" than he actually plans and puts into operation.
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:59 am

Our news media in Canada are saying that it will never happen in Canada. I just hope they have not got people's hopes up too high for a big fall
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AirframeAS
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:04 am

Why is the media allowing OBL to even get free press? Cut off OBL and then maybe he'll just fade away and become a imfamous memory. Thats a pipedream, I know. But the media is continuing to add fuel to the fire that needs to be put out. In other words, OBL's #1 ally is the world's media.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
PanAmOldDC8
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
. In other words, OBL's #1 ally is the world's media.

Of course, bad news sells papers and keeps the TV people happy, why would you think they show the crap they do otherwise
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Arrow
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:54 am

Quoting PanAmOldDC8 (Reply 19):
Of course, bad news sells papers and keeps the TV people happy, why would you think they show the crap they do otherwise

The story was grossly over-played. It looks to me like they put so much time and effort into justifying their news judgment with comments from all and sundry, that they didn't notice that most of those comments actually downplayed the importance of the threat. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story ...
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
padraighaz
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:18 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 18):
Why is the media allowing OBL to even get free press? Cut off OBL and then maybe he'll just fade away and become a imfamous memory. Thats a pipedream, I know. But the media is continuing to add fuel to the fire that needs to be put out. In other words, OBL's #1 ally is the world's media.

OBL's #1 ally is GWB. There has always been terrorism and it is likely there will be for quite a while into the future. The only thing different about 9-11 was it was a terrorist attack from an external enemy - let's not forget Timothy McVeigh was a terrorist. Other countries had learned to live with terrorists and rebels without destroying their economies and had realized that terrorists tend to be somewhat generational and can come and go. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, a radical message fueled by a perceived outrage is not so compelling to a later generation more distant from the outrage. Second, as time passes, tempers can calm down, judicial and political systems can evolve, and so the basic context of the rage can shift and dissipate. European nations have learned this, as have others. In addition, there is the reality check that need to be done in the sense one has to measure what you might gain against what you might lose with whatever strategy you adopt to confront terror. We can always trade freedom for safety, but is this what we really want?

GWB didn't listen to any ally or consider any lessons from history when he decided to wage a war on terror. He did not choose to adopt a strategy of managing and containing terrorism, but instead blundered into creating a scenario where not only he could he not win (what constitues victory in a War on Terror?) but the terrorists could, merely by being seen to exist and operate in spite of being opposed by a superpower. He could have adopted a strategy where he bluntly told americans that because we live in a free society, he wasn't going to give terrorists a victory by turning us into a police state; he could have said that in a free democracy, we will suffer some casualties at the hands of terrorists, but that he would hunt down like dogs any that did attack us and kill them when he could. Such positions would be much more effective in fighting terrorism, deny terrorists any sense of significant victory, and create a better sense of perspective of the problem among americans.

This would have demonstrated level headed and reflective leadership and maturity in the face of a problem that has no easy solution. Unfortunately, his actions are totally at odds with what we need from senior statesmen.
 
TheCol
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 21):

So you figure we should have just ignored Afghanistan, and let the training camps turn out hundreds of new terrorists and ship them back to their host countries?
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
andessmf
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:00 am

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 21):
Other countries had learned to live with terrorists and rebels without destroying their economies and had realized that terrorists tend to be somewhat generational and can come and go

Tell me any country where this applies.
 
padraighaz
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting TheCol (Reply 22):
So you figure we should have just ignored Afghanistan, and let the training camps turn out hundreds of new terrorists and ship them back to their host countries?

No. I think the attack on the Taliban was justified becuase they attacked us and this was a very specific and closed response.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:10 am

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 21):

What country does this apply to? Whatever it is that you have been smoking, spread the wealth.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
padraighaz
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 23):
Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 21):
Other countries had learned to live with terrorists and rebels without destroying their economies and had realized that terrorists tend to be somewhat generational and can come and go

Tell me any country where this applies.

Northern Ireland for one with the IRA, The Basque Separatists for another; the Baader Meinhoff(sp?) in Germany, and the radicals in Italy. And also the Sandinistas.
 
andessmf
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 26):

The IRA was a 70 year fight, and only lately has there been breakthroughs.

Basques just attacked an killed two Ecuadorians.

Bader Meinhof (sic) leaders were all jailed, and the group disbanded.

Same with radical in Italy, including the fights the government had against the Mafia.

Sandinistas/Civil War/Arms-for-Hostages??

You have not shown any example where 'other countries had learned to live with terrorists'. These countries FOUGHT their terrorists as well.
 
padraighaz
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:30 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 27):
You have not shown any example where 'other countries had learned to live with terrorists'. These countries FOUGHT their terrorists as well.

You misunderstood my point; I am not saying that terrorism should be ignored. What I mean by 'living with terrorism' is recognizing there will always be terrorism and that since this is a problem with no obvious winning knock-out strategy, then it is better to have a strategy to contain and manage it rather than elevating it and according terrorists a degree of attention and significance that they do not deserve. By not elevating it to such a status, you also buy some time for events to unfold and for opportunities to address various issues that might be able to take some of the heat out of the situation. This does not mean terrorists shouldn't be targetted when there is unambiguous information, but that you to some extent put the issue on the back burner where you maintain. GWB turned the issue into a make-or-break one for his credibility where all the terrorists have to do is survive and his credibility is shot. This was very foolish.
 
andessmf
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:45 am

It all depends on what the terrorist group is trying to achieve.

It has been well publicized that al-Qaeda and other similar groups are trying to create a system where all countries become a theocracy. This is a direct threat to all of our survival.

There are other terrorist groups whose aims are much more local, and who do not affect the world as much.

But as example, OBL is now (still not verified as truth) calling for additional attacks in other countries not involved in Iraq, hence the international threat his type of movement represents. And these types of groups have always been fought to the (bitter) end.
 
padraighaz
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 29):
It all depends on what the terrorist group is trying to achieve.

I agree that different groups might need different strategies, hence it is foolish to lump them all together.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 29):
It has been well publicized that al-Qaeda and other similar groups are trying to create a system where all countries become a theocracy. This is a direct threat to all of our survival.

Yes and No. Any nut can issue a threat against the West. This doesn't mean they have the resources or the ability to succeed, and it doesn't mean we have to panic and over-react. Our current over-reaction has shown how we have mainly succeeded in playing right into the hands of the terrorists and we are seen as the aggressors by many in the region which is self-defeating. To the extent a group threatens the West violently then kill them as the opportunity arises, but always offer the olive branch even if their extremism generally prevents them from taking it. This is a much better political position to take than to declare an ideological monolithic war.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 29):
But as example, OBL is now (still not verified as truth) calling for additional attacks in other countries not involved in Iraq, hence the international threat his type of movement represents. And these types of groups have always been fought to the (bitter) end.

Yes. But it seems to me there is an air of desparation in this. He is not calling for a jihad against christianity or the West in general since previous rhetoric along those lines have largely failed, and so it is impossible for him to play the role of a successful and viable leader by re-issueing appeals that he believes will be largely ineffective. We are still here and pressure to shut down extremist bases and extremist religious schools is beginning to take its toll. When a religious fanatic like him gets very worldly in his goals I think there is a sense of frustration at not being able to resonate with your hoped for support and in this case there is an attempt to rebuild himself as a major threat by targetting a resource americans are popularly considered to be in desparate need of. I think the threat is aimed at american hysteria and is hoped to trigger over-reaction.
 
andessmf
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:31 am

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 30):
Any nut can issue a threat against the West.

But not all have been able to carry them out.

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 30):
But it seems to me there is an air of desparation in this

And it is a good sign if he is feeling alone and ignored.

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 30):
He is not calling for a jihad against christianity or the West in general since previous rhetoric along those lines have largely failed

Just because he has not called for it lately does not mean that this part of his ideology is gone.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 2):
who is al-Qaeda

who and what is Al Qaeda?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm

this makes interesting watching.

[Edited 2007-02-15 23:39:40]
 
andessmf
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 32):

From your source I take a direct qoute:

"The Power of Nightmares (about al-Qaeda) assesses whether the threat from a hidden and organised terrorist network is an illusion. In the concluding part of the series, the programme explains how the illusion was created and who benefits from it.

Need I say more?
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:11 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 33):
Need I say more?

watch it...you might learn something.
 
andessmf
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 34):
watch it...you might learn something.

I did, and I learned something...about you...

BTW, for those who don't want to bother to go thru it, to boil it down, you have all been fooled by neocons and al-Qaeda does not really exist and is not really a threat.

Did I summarize it well?
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:32 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 35):
BTW, for those who don't want to bother to go thru it, to boil it down, you have all been fooled by neocons and al-Qaeda does not really exist and is not really a threat.

watched 3hrs in under 30mins...i just learned something about you.
 
andessmf
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:39 am

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 36):
.i just learned something about you.

Yes, I am a fast reader, transcripts located at the bottom.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 35):

Did I summarize it well?

You still have to answer the question I asked.
 
N231YE
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:53 am

This is interesting...



http://www.terrorfreeoil.org/

...if one of these opens up around my area, I will definately get it, even for a 30 minute drive, even if there are closer gas stations to me.
 
padraighaz
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:52 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 31):

...

But not all have been able to carry them out.

...

And it is a good sign if he is feeling alone and ignored.

...

Just because he has not called for it lately does not mean that this part of his ideology is gone.

Agreed.
 
baroque
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:27 pm

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 30):
But it seems to me there is an air of desparation in this. He is not calling for a jihad against christianity or the West in general since previous rhetoric along those lines have largely failed, and so it is impossible for him to play the role of a successful and viable leader by re-issueing appeals that he believes will be largely ineffective.

Excellent set of posts Pdr. At the least we should be awake to the possibility that the propositions in QF077s posts has some truth.

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 32):
Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 2):
who is al-Qaeda

who and what is Al Qaeda?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm

this makes interesting watching.

Indeed it does. The let us go straight to Osama theory of the Twin Towers may not be correct. By 1999, the Islamists had largely failed in their efforts to stir revolution in the Islamic masses. OBL is very late to take credit for the Twin Towers. While there is little doubt he would have been happy that they were demolished, he may not have planned it, nor been all that closely associated with the plot. But he did not have to worry about how to claim the "credit" for it - the GWoT sorted that out for him. Suddenly he had an organization and that organization was given cred by W.

And one irony is that if a vote had been taken in the White House, the credit might have gone to Saddam, who definitely did not have a great deal to do with it - understatement for NOTHING! So are we that sure that the second in line for the award was really the mastermind? Not really. There is that tape that can certainly be interpreted that it was rather a surprise to OBL.

It is possible that he never really had much of an organization and the cred has largely been awarded by the masterminds of the GWoT.

Is OBL a nice guy - NO. Is he the cunning fiend incarnate? Probably not.

The main talent he seems to have is to be able to avoid the US hunters. And that is a strange thing too. Waziristan might be mountainous. Is it that difficult? Or does this strange story still have some way to go?

I' faith Andes doth protest too much. The conventional story is a bit odd. Just because there are wild conspiracy theories around that are dumb, does not mean that the versions being given by the Admin are the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth - esp the last of these.  boggled 

One thing that would be good to reconstruct would be OBL's social diary. I note that all the real baddies at GITMO are really really bad because inter alia they had a meeting or meetings with OBL. I am wondering it he had the time for all these meetings. Someone needs to work out how he fitted it all in.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:19 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 40):
It is possible that he never really had much of an organization

what i found very interesting was the bunker assertion put forward by the Americans...then when US and allied forces arrive in the area they suspect to the be HQ they find nothing. To be honest i'd never heard of Al Qaeda until after sept 11th. The mastermind behind 9/11 Khalid Sheikh Mohammed took the idea to Bin Laden who found potential hijackers and funding, Taking credit for 9/11 served to bolster the myth and fear of Al Qaeda and the Islamist movement.


Just look where they talk about Bin Laden and his show of strength..it's laughable, he hires men for the day and makes them bring their own weapons, doesn't sound like a very sophisticated terrorist group if you ask me. where is this international network & headquaters, unfortunately some people believe the bullshit being fed to them by their governments. You know what it reminds me..that great film Usual Suspects.

UBL most certainly exists, Al Qaeda? i'm not so sure how grand or organized they are for that matter, i highly doubt the threat is that great that it poses a huge risk to mankind as we know it. glad you found something useful from the documentary, you could almost say allies have been well and truly played for fools.
 
padraighaz
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:21 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 35):
BTW, for those who don't want to bother to go thru it, to boil it down, you have all been fooled by neocons and al-Qaeda does not really exist and is not really a threat.

Did I summarize it well?

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic. It seems to me Al Qaeda is given way too much credit, and if it really had a tenth of the ability it is supposed to have we'd be drowning in blood here in the US - who can seriously believe TSA security and the Dept. of Homeland Security could prevent attacks from a half competent group?

Right now it seems to me that because the Administration framed the debate in terms of a global War on Terror, that any crackpot group looking for prestige can claim affiliation or motivation from Al Queda and send the US in a panic that results in increased military andf security spending.

This is not to say there isn't a core of fanatics that can recruit and send fighters into the field, but the implied coherence on an international scale is largely an artifact of the Administration's attempt to create a monster to retroactively justify over-reaction and over simplification.

I think part of what's going in is that in the normal course of world events, the US was attacked by radicals who saw it as not being impartial in Midlle East affairs, and as being a symbol of all they hold to be evil. Most countries have experienced terrorism attacks and have dealt with it. The big difference here is the 9-11 attack hit the US when it was floundering for a rationale to justify the military and the supporting industries after the decline of the USSR, and they obsessed on terrorism as a kind of enemy they could focus on and it became a substitute for the USSR. Because they were used to seeing globally coherent threats this is all they could see. It was a classic case of 'if all you have is a hammer, every problem becomes a nail.'
 
andessmf
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:29 pm

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 42):
but the implied coherence on an international scale is largely an artifact of the Administration's attempt to create a monster to retroactively justify over-reaction and over simplification.

Attacks on Bali, Madrid, London, US, Africa, ME, etc. Did I miss one?

Is that not international. IIRC, the administration never claimed coherence.

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 42):
I'm assuming you're being sarcastic.

What made you believe I am being sarcastic when I have three of you now essentially saying that al-Qaeda is not really a big deal?
 
padraighaz
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:31 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 43):
Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 42):
but the implied coherence on an international scale is largely an artifact of the Administration's attempt to create a monster to retroactively justify over-reaction and over simplification.

Attacks on Bali, Madrid, London, US, Africa, ME, etc. Did I miss one?

Is that not international. IIRC, the administration never claimed coherence.

Yes you are correct. The point I'm getting at is that it seems to me the degree of coherence, in the sense of a strongly adhered to common philosophy and set of goals, just wasn't that strong before the War on Terror was declared. The atttacks you have listed seem to be a backlash from radicals against the West for attacking muslim countries, and this is a newer common purpose than what was there when the War on Terror was first declared. [Re-reading what I wrote I should have said 'was largely an artifact...' (instead of 'is largely an artifact...') since I think there is more coherence now than there was in the past even if it is overstated in my opinion.]

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 43):
What made you believe I am being sarcastic when I have three of you now essentially saying that al-Qaeda is not really a big deal?

I'm not saying al-Queda is not a big deal. I am saying I think they are not as powerful as claimed, and that the US has been very heavy handed in how it deals with the whole issue.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:59 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 43):
when I have three of you now essentially saying that al-Qaeda is not really a big deal?

lets get one thing straight...you never had nor do you have me, nor did i say that Al Qaeda wasn't a big deal, i said that the existence and sophistication of Al Qaeda is something that should be questioned, there structure is meant to be some elaborate network of sleeper cells, underground bunkers & training groundthat are spread across 60+ countries. if that's the case why are they still asleep? surely the everyday carnage in Iraq would be enough to awaken those supposed cells & Islamists in Australia, USA, UK and other nations?!
 
andessmf
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Quoting Padraighaz (Reply 44):
I'm not saying al-Queda is not a big deal. I am saying I think they are not as powerful as claimed

So, from your viewpoint it is a big deal, just not as powerful as claimed...

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 45):
lets get one thing straight...you never had nor do you have me, nor did i say that Al Qaeda wasn't a big deal, i said that the existence and sophistication of Al Qaeda is something that should be questioned

And you say it is a big deal, but its existence should be questioned...

wow...

Next I am going to hear about the cooling effect wind has on fire. (FYI, a.net member said that while discussing 9/11 conspiracies...)
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:53 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 46):
but its existence should be questioned...

go watch the documentary...you're telling me that al qaeda has sleeper cells in every corner of the planet? they're about to launch attacks on oil installations? if that's the case why are they not reacting the violence in Iraq? Al Qaeda isn't what you and the neocons in Washington would have us believe, Yes they've lived up to the reputation that preceded them but it's not a web of sophistication, sleeper cells, underground bunkers and an army of men..infact, what do you really know about Al Qaeda? other than what your govt has fed you.

the documentary makes a lot more sense than the rubbish Bush & co spit out. it prompts you to ask obvious questions about how Al Qaeda really came about, how much, if any of it's structure really exists today, what their goals are, where the phantom HQ's are located, who the followers really are, do those followers actually belong the Al Qaeda.

I pity people like you have don't have the ability to think outside the square let alone put aside the govt rhetoric and see it for what it really is, a fear campaign.
 
PanAmOldDC8
Topic Author
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:41 pm

You have all missed the point of why I posted this. There aim is to get at the US before they get alternative energy, which I believe is not too far down the tubes. It is fine to call all of us who realise that Al Qaeda is a problem for the world,neocons, but when you oil supplies are cut off, what are you going to do then?
I suggest that you all go and join the imaginary force.
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
baroque
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RE: Bin Laden Wants Oil Targeted

Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:51 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 47):
Yes they've lived up to the reputation that preceded them but it's not a web of sophistication, sleeper cells, underground bunkers and an army of men..infact, what do you really know about Al Qaeda? other than what your govt has fed you.

Bali is an interesting case in point. There were some links to OBL mostly through Hambali although the US has kept him close to their chest and only very recently let the Indonesians have a chat with him - more than 2 years after he was nabbed and about the same time after the lack of his evidence may have let the head of JI go free after having been jailed on a set of dredged up charges - it SEEMS due to lack of US cooperation.

Most of the organization for that seems to have been down to Azahari and Top, who do not seem to be related much to Al Q. While all this is going on, most of the casualties from JI bomb attacks have been Indonesians and a high proportion of them have been Muslims. None of which has made the militant wing of JI popular in Indonesia. And yes, there is a non militant wing of JI. So how does that tie in with the all malevolent Al Q masterminded by OBL - not well is how it fits.

It will be interesting to follow the Spanish case and see how this fits the US model of AlQ.

What we are trying to suggest Andes, is that all may not be as it has been presented to you in the interests of scaring you witless and thus getting your vote. That might not be quite the way it goes in the states, but that is how it has been going in Aus.

And as one of us said, if he was as damned clever as is commonly assumed, he would surely have made a "better" job of having his way in the US. Mind you, it is true that someone set out a series of alternative targets that may have distracted him - called Afghanistan and Iraq! But then again, the likes of Zarkawi were more likely a franchise operation rather than a subsidiary and possibly they did not follow an OBL laid out set of plans. More likely, the Zarkawis just expanded into the vacuum left by the occupation of Bremer.

Maybe OBL could attack oil targets, but more likely he is just keeping up his side of the game that seems to be played between OBL and W. So "new balls, W to serve"!

However, someone needs to keep reminding W of the dangers and difficulties of fighting more than one war at a time. Looking at it dispassionately, one seems to be one too many and two is definitely too many. Time to call the cops, rozzers, polis, wallopers, the old Bill the Sweeney, whatever!!

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