ThePRGuy
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Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:07 am

New breaking right now, a Virgin train has derailed between Oxenholme and Tebay "rolled over on its side, down an embankment".

At the moment -- not totally sure what the situation is regarding injuries

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6391633.stm

Presumably the electric units.

Sky News is suggesting there was an obstacle on the line which caused the derailment

Thanks
Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
BA787
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:10 am

That could be bad, keep us updated
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:14 am

"Witnesses said the train derailed before sliding down an embankment"

No shit. Like a train ever slides down an embankment without derailing first.

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
swiftski
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:17 am

This is so scary for me personally, as I was on 2 Virgin Trains today, the second arrived at Euston at 1730 so I can just picture it all so well.

This would have been a high speed Pendolino/Voyager train.

VT are IMO the best ride/comfort/service one can get in the UK.
 
BA787
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 3):
VT are IMO the best ride/comfort/service one can get in the UK

Well i hope everythings ok, but thats a load of shite.

GNER is comfier, has nicer food, better trains and just nicer staff. They're like the BA of trains
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
GNER is comfier, has nicer food, better trains and just nicer staff. They're like the BA of trains

Lets leave off the anti-Virgin trains for now - peoples lives could be in danger right now.

I am assuming these are the over head electric pendolino trains - no risk of a diesel fire in that case?

Sky News has no more info than has been given already

Fingers crossed it turns out ok.

I'll keep information in this post as it comes available

Thannks
Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
BA787
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:26 am

BBC are saying that carriages are up in air and on sides, this could be pretty bad folks
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:34 am

Sky News saying 6 to 8 are trapped in the carriage.

I hope it turns out ok!
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:34 am

Breaking news from Sky:

between 6 and 12 people trapped in the carriage.

6 car EMU

2nd and 3rd carriage "in the air"

3 RAF helicopters scrambled and en route. up to 10 ambulances at site already.

Fingers crossed its ok.


Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
BA787
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:36 am

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 5):

Sorry, hope all onboard are ok
 
swiftski
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:38 am

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
Well i hope everythings ok, but thats a load of shite.

It was an opinion, not a stated fact.

To confirm, this was VT6 and is a Pendolino "tilting" train
 
9V
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:40 am

The casualties range from walking wounded to broken legs and head injuries.

An eyewitness said there was a loud bang and the train lurched violently to one side.

Cumbria Fire Service said it has five pumps currently at the scene.

Three RAF Helicopters are also involved in the rescue operation.

Michael Mulford from RAF Kinloss Emergency Centre said it was a "major incident" and a mountain rescue team that was exercise nearby is also helping.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:43 am

It's a Virgin Pendolino involved, they have a total of 8 or possibly 9 carriages. Certainly the absence of flammable fuel will have been a saving grace in this incident, hopefully there are no life threatening injuries or deaths amongst those onboard.

Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
SQno1
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:51 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 12):
It's a Virgin Pendolino involved, they have a total of 8 or possibly 9 carriages. Certainly the absence of flammable fuel will have been a saving grace in this incident, hopefully there are no life threatening injuries or deaths amongst those onboard.

It will be 9 carriages, as far as I know virgin completed the prgramme to fit the extra carriage quite a while back. Apparently it was the 17:15 service form London Euston To Glasgow Central.

Let's hope this is not the first fatal rail accident since the tragic events at Upton Nervet, Berkshire over two years ago.

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
GNER is comfier, has nicer food, better trains and just nicer staff. They're like the BA of trains



Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
Well i hope everythings ok, but thats a load of shite.

 Yeah sure I'm afraid to say that was the wrong time and the wrong place to say that, people could have lost their lives in this incident.

With Regards,
Alex.B
 
dogfighter2111
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:52 am

Heya,

This is a bad thing to happen. I just checked the arrival board for Glasgow Central and the VT6 shows as this:

Quote:

2154 arrival at Glasgow Central from London Euston
Virgin Trains
Expected to arrive Glasgow Central at 2149.
We were expecting the monitoring point between Oxenholme Lake District and Penrith to report on this train at 2018. This report has not been received.

I hope it is only injuries and nothing more searious. I think more news is just getting out now.

Mike
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:53 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 12):
they have a total of 8 or possibly 9 carriages

6 car EMU according to Sky and BBC, although every pendo i've been on has had 8 carriages. Must of been a relatively packed rush hour train here
Thanks
Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 15):
6 car EMU according to Sky and BBC, although every pendo i've been on has had 8 carriages. Must of been a relatively packed rush hour train here

The BBC had 9 carriages on the site, but have changed it again to just say Pendalino. If it's a Virgin train out of Euston, bound for Scotland then it is quite correctly going to be a Pendolino and will therefore have 9 carriages not 6, thanks SQNo1 for the update on that, I wasn't sure if they had fitted all of their trains with the extra one yet.

Once again, hope all is well for everybody involved.


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 16):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6391633.stm

A passenger on the train has phoned the BBC and is giving a recollection of what happened
Thanks
Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
BA787
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting SQNo1 (Reply 13):
I'm afraid to say that was the wrong time and the wrong place to say that, people could have lost their lives in this incident.

Something which I did not know at the time, and something which I pointed out at the start of the post
 
swiftski
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:07 am

Emergency services say there are "numerous" injuries in the Cumbria train derailment
 
swiftski
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:15 am

From VT Website; not much info made clear.


Virgin Trains can confirm that there has been an incident this evening between Oxenholme and Penrith involving the 1715 London Euston to Glasgow service and that emergency services are in attendance.

We will confirm further details as soon as they become available.
 
BA787
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:19 am

No deaths reported as yet, just a few people appear to be trapped. All nine carriages are on their sides
 
EZYAirbus
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:53 am

1 Fatality now confirmed, very sad indeed  Sad

Glenn
http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:08 am

One death and dozens "critically injured"

This is not good.

Thanks
Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
gkirk
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:40 am

This is very scary now...I do use this service when I go down to Preston/Manchester, I also know a lot of people that use this service...
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 24):

My father and I use the Euston-Oxenholme service twice or so a month
V scary
Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:31 pm

Blimey this is scary.
I do the Euston-Oxenholme a few time a month.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/6391821.stm


Thanks
Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
BA787
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:48 pm

Shit, that looks bad. May the sole who lost their life rest in peace  Sad
 
airbusA346
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:55 pm

What bad news  Sad

Has anything been said why this modern train derailed.

Tom.
Tom Walker '086' First Officer of a A318/A319 for Air Lambert - Hours Flown: 17 hour 05 minutes (last updated 24/12/05).
 
BA787
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:56 pm

The fatality was an 85 year old woman.

The train was a Virgin Pendolino, which was travelling at ninety-five miles an hour. Witnesses heard a loud bang and saw the carnage. The section of track had maintenance work done last week, which could mean shabby maintenance. Very Sad  Sad
 
EWS
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:21 pm

Sad News indeed..

Looking at the photographs and such on the BBC website, im actually suprised that people have been as lucky as they have with this, as 95mph is a fast speed (and that is the line speed limit for that stretch of track).

Hope they find the cause of this one soon, will make a interesting read i think.

Lew
 
ThePRGuy
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:40 pm

Quoting AirbusA346 (Reply 28):
Has anything been said why this modern train derailed.

Apparently the train lurched upwards, then side to side.
I'm not one to speculate but it brings back memories of the tragic german ICE disaster. And we all know what caused that.
If this is the case here, someone needs to be sorted out now.

May the elderly woman RIP, but the others should count their lucky stars that noone else was killed in this 95mph crash!

Thanks
Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
777236ER
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:01 pm

Well done to Alstom for having enough crashworthiness to limit the deaths to only one in a derailment at 95 mph in a hilly area.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
MYT332
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:51 pm

To me this is all pretty horrific. As quite a few of you have seen, my back garden backs right on to the West Coast Mainline so seeing something so familiar like this is disturbing to say the least. I see Pendolino's everyday and I use them numerous times a month and now one has crashed it's very strange as it's so close to home, literally and metaphorically speaking.

Like 777236ER mentioned, you have to admire how well the unit held up which is a testament to Alstom who built them down in Birmingham. The train that crashed is Class 390 033 which carried the name plaque 'City Of Glasgow'. The service she was operating was as we know the 1715 from London Euston to Glasgow Central. It's funny as I know that service as the damn train that goes past at the start of Corrie or Eastenders before stopping at Preston at 1937.

Like I say, it's all a bit weird and yes, it's just one of those things in life but whilst I've been writing this post a Pendolino has just gone past heading north, eerie? She's going to be terminating at Preston which is where Virgin are stopping all northward bound services. Lockerbie is the station where all southerly bound Virgin services ex Glasgow are stopping.

TransPennie Express have also had to halt services to Windermere, terminating at Preston or Lancaster and then a bus up to Oxenholme where a shuttle train service is operating to Windermere.

I've just seen Branson is on the site in Cumbria which is a pretty great gesture from him. He too praised the design of the Pendolino, it did more than likely save lives.

I took the below photo on a Pendolino from Glasgow to Preston last month. Like I say, it's just hard to imagine something that familiar to you being involved in such an incident.


28th January 2007


23rd February 2007




That's enough from me anyway.
One Life, Live it.
 
777236ER
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:37 pm

Two friends of mine work for Bombardier in the UK, and do quite a lot on train crashworthiness. The dynamics of train crashes are complicated, generally much more so than for aircraft crashes.

The decelerations associated with most train crashes usually aren't that large, one of the big problems comes with concertina effects. Due to the nature of train crashes, usually only one bogie is derailed initially, or one carriage is affected by an impact. With one bogie or carriage off the track it's very difficult to understand how the rest of the carriages will act dynamically and make a general model.

There's a big debate as to whether Jacobs bogies that span two carriages are safer than regular bogies. Certainly Jacobs bogies can increase the ridigity of the train set and help to keep carriages upright, whilst non-articulated trains can jack-knife (see the ICE crash in 1998). On the other hand, it's difficult to split trains (which is quite popular in the UK) and to keep down axle weights.

Diesel trains have a big risk of fire in high-speed crashes, and fires do cost the lives of people in otherwise survivable train crashes. With diesel trains, a big crashworthiness decision is whether to use locomotives or multiple traction units. Locomotives reduce the risk of fires in passenger carriages, as fuel is stored in the locomotives. On the other hand, the increased momentum of the locomotive carriages over passenger carriages can be a problem. If a locomotive is at the back of a train set, a derailment ahead of it can lead to the locomotive pushing the passenger carriages in front of it, resulting in a significant amount of jack-knifing. This is by virtue of not only the increased momentum of the locomotive, but also the fact that power to the wheels may not be reduced instantly. This is a big potential problem, and is one of the reasons for an increase in the use of DMUs and EMUs. The ICE crash in 1998 was worsened significantly by this effect.

The Class 390 is probably the most crash-worthy trains in the UK. The carriage crashworthiness is improved over Mark 3 and Mark 4 coaches, there's very little risk of fire and the weight of the train is spread throughout the set. The safety of the design can be seen with only one death in a highspeed derailment.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 34):
The safety of the design can be seen with only one death in a highspeed derailment.

Indeed the 390's are very nice trains; excellent ride comfort and obviously from their reaction in this crash, well built too. Most injuries will have been as a result of being thrown around the cabin as the derailment took place, very sad that one elderly passenger died, may she rest in peace, but certainly there would have been many more had this been on of the much older HST types of train, or even the voyagers.

Dan.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
BA787
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:25 am

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 35):
or even the voyagers

Yeah, I always have noticed the Voyagers seem a bit flimsier. The Pendolino must be built like a brick, thank god it is
 
Shamrock_747
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:50 am

Personally I have never been keen on the Pendolino, mainly due petty old-fashioned trainspotter preferences. However I can't deny that this incident has proven the design of the train to be superb. It is amazing to see those carriages appearing intact after coming off the rails at 95mph and plummeting down an embankment. Apparently there weren't even any windows broken.

Usually I'm no fan of Branson either, but I am genuinely pleased about his media presence at the moment. The railways are usually unfairly branded 'dangerous' after accidents like this. It needs to be highlighted that if it wasn't for the investment in modern rolling stock the outcome of this situation would have been so much worse.
 
legoguy
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:15 am

Like others, Im amazed there only been one death and 8 serious injuries... and even this one death (the elderly woman, RIP) was a result of shock on her way to hospital.

Just a small question... is there a driver at each end of the train or is there just one driver, who switches ends at each end of the journey? The driver in this case has been described as a hero by Sir Richard Branson.
Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
 
FlyingColours
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 38):
Just a small question... is there a driver at each end of the train or is there just one driver, who switches ends at each end of the journey?

Should be just the one, however I think they actually change drivers at several intervals en-route (as each driver knows only so much of the route).

There are also a crew of around 5 or 6 people on board the train too, the guard (or conductor), shop sales assistant & some people that patrol the cabins who usually tidy it up & answer questions, not to forget the crewmember who is stationed in the first class cabin. Although thats all from my experiance travelling as a passenger.

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
SQno1
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:24 am

Just looking at some of these comments on the BBC "have your say" section and I must say that some clearly live in a world, an incorrect one which suggests that road transportation is safer. I know though that silly reactions like the examples given below are to be expected following such a rare event.

So they want us to travel on public transport ,Well this just proves how unsafe trains are ,They should be banned we should be giving people tax incentives to buy cars as they are much safer.

Long live the car.

Colin McSherry, Bathgate

We shold re-nationalise the railway. It should be a public service, not a profit-making machine: look at the crashes after the railways were privatised.
Bring back BR sandwiches.

harry yanos, London

Just want to also get a discussion going about the possibility of seatbelts on trains. Do you support the introduction of them, are they cost effective, are few thoughts would be great!  Smile

With Regards,
Alex.B
 
BA787
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting SQno1 (Reply 40):
Just want to also get a discussion going about the possibility of seatbelts on trains. Do you support the introduction of them, are they cost effective, are few thoughts would be great

Ive always thought the same with buses too. It seems coaches feel its sufficient so why not buses
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:30 am

I'm for seat-belts in principle, but really they are not going to be feasible, and when you actually look at the practicalities it just wouldn't work. Taking the train is preferable because it allows you to get up and walk around, which you cannot do on a bus or a car; if there was to be any purpose in having seat-belts then you would have to make people sit down which would be virtually impossible to enforce and would be very unpopular, plus the seat-belts would undoubtedly become vandalised over time. Luckily we're only having about one 'major' accident a year here in the UK, if that, and the only occasion where a seat-belt could really help is where the carriage overturns or is thrown about excessively, so the number of lives it could potentially save would simply not justify the fitting of seat-belts to all trains.


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
WestJetYQQ
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:34 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 2):
No shit. Like a train ever slides down an embankment without derailing first.

There is always a first time for everything!  Wink
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:04 pm

Quoting WestJetYQQ (Reply 43):
Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 2):
No shit. Like a train ever slides down an embankment without derailing first.

There is always a first time for everything!



...anything is possible Wink
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
andz
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:38 pm

Quoting BA787 (Reply 4):
They're like the BA of trains

Hardly a recommendation.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
777236ER
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:15 pm

Seat belts on trains aren't particularly useful. In most train crashes (this one included) the decelerations are quite low. The majority of deaths in train crashes occur during fires or in unsurvivable impacts with other trains.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
mhodgson
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:27 pm

Amazed at how well the train held up, full credit to Alstom!

The media circus is ridiculous - the BBC have your say is testament to that! And all the rubbish about pre-privatisation being better - does no-one recall Clapham Junction?
No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
 
ozglobal
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:15 am

Quoting SQno1 (Reply 40):
We shold re-nationalise the railway. It should be a public service, not a profit-making machine: look at the crashes after the railways were privatised.

Railways, like most essential public infrastructure, are not well suited to privatization. It amazes me still that in US, UK, Oz, etc, it is apparently a 'nobrainer' to pour billions from the tax purse annually into road infrastructure (benefitting mainly the trucking firms who are responsible for 99% of wear and tear), but any talk of public investment in rail infrastructure is necessarily pinko socialist! The sad reality is that, after having established the world's leading rail infrastructure which opened up the country and boosted properity, the UK has, a century later, a shamefully neglected, antiquated and genuinely dangerous rail infrastructure. It is 'tarted-up' with these 'high speed on classic track' trains, leaving us only to ask when the next fatal accident will be... Time for this conventional 'wisdom' of transport economics to be changed.
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
BA787
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RE: Virgin Train Derails In Lake District

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:57 am

Quoting Andz (Reply 45):
Hardly a recommendation

Beg to differ lol Big grin.

Best service, best people, best cabins, best airline, Period.  Yeah sure Well I think they are Big grin

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