Blackbird
Topic Author
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Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:30 am

I heard that in addition to the "Non-Binding" resolution, they are trying to pass a bill which would revoke the resolution which gave Bush the right to attack and occupy Iraq.

Bush said that any attempts to do this will be opposed.

To be honest I'm not sure I should be ecstatic, or worried as to what Bush will do to keep his war going and to get that war with Iran going.

This administration is one of the most corrupt yet; they are not trustworthy. In fact, they strike me as the type who will do anything to get what they want. I just hope they won't attack our fleet in the middle-east a'la the Gulf of Tonkin, and/or stage a terrorist attack within the US to blame on the Iranians, and use that to reinforce Bush's point that we need to be out there in the middle-east taking an aggressive stance.

I hope all goes well, and a timetable is set for our troops to start pulling out of that hellhole. But, I really have no trust in this administration.

Andrea K
 
747hogg
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:29 am

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:00 pm

I pray bush will be hauled off in hand-cuff's and get what Saddam got after his trial. USA (me too) was suckered into this fools wake, and now we are on our knees and broke and bleeding thanks to Bush. AS a paralyzed Vietnam Vet.... let me tell you, you can never win a war when you are the outsider in a foreign culture and are the aggressors. They have no tanks, planes, SUV's, hummers, and look like everyone in town. We are like pink elephants, and are easy killing for them. we are now the most hated nation in the world. and are begging 42 year old grannies to join the army! It's a war we are not welcome at by anyone, and we will never win it, ever. Can't be done they can so easely see and hear us coming a mile away, strike, then put on womans clothing and act like nothing happened....
 
Mir
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:02 pm

If revoking the authority is an action to start a troop withdrawl, then fine. But if it's another "we shouldn't have gone to war" thing, it's useless. Pretty much the whole country realizes that the war was a complete screwup, no need to beat that horse anymore.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:11 pm

Well first off, Blackbird, you need to provide a source. Unless of course, you just wanna rant, then you need to so state.

As for the thread topic:

The non-binding resolution went through the Pelosi house as expected.

It didn't even get a vote in the Senate.

And NOW, the democrats - true to the Cut and Run mentality - are trying to back peddle like ducks coming in to decoys on the authorization to go to war. Fortunately, there are enough Republicans to prevent it. It won't start a troop withdrawal, it's all about getting votes in the next election. It won't protect our troops over there, it's all about pointing a finger at the Bush Administration. It won't bring back the casualties, it's simply more partisan political crap in Washington.


What baffles me is NONE of the actions by the Pelosi House or the Reid Senate are designed to favor the troops. The actions are designed to rebuff the Bush Administration and to hell with the frackin' troops. Now, if ANYTHING is criminal it is THAT! The democrats oughta hang their heads in shame. They oughta be frackin' ashamed.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
RJdxer
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:23 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
Well first off, Blackbird, you need to provide a source. Unless of course, you just wanna rant, then you need to so state.

Well let me help Blackbird out...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070223...;_ylt=Aphp6cLEx3L3.ED4b1KXBz.yFz4D

Two major problems with this idea. The couldn't get 60 votes to pass a vote to bring a non-binding resoluiton to the floor for a vote, what chance do you think this stands? In the incredible event it did make it through the Senate and the House, how fast could President Bush veto it? Would he even wait for the bill to get to the White House or take a trip down Pennsylvania Ave and just veto it right there at the Capitol? And we have not even begun to talk about two other details, overriding the veto and the dust up over the seperation of powers that the Supreme Court would ultimately have to decide.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
The democrats oughta hang their heads in shame. They oughta be frackin' ashamed.

Not gonna happen.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
MDorBust
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:28 pm

That "non-binding" crap was just that. If the congress wants to call the president to the mats, they should do that. "Non-binding" reminds me of the useless garbage the UN pulls that has convinced me that organisation is next to useless.

Every congressman that votes to de-fund the troops should be dragged out in the streets and shot.

If you want to bring the troops home, vote for that.

If you pass legislation that leaves them in place and pulls from them what they need to fight, you are as good as a traitor in my book.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Blackbird
Topic Author
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:03 pm

Even if they revoke his authority, he could always make a signing statement and because of his interpretation, or mis-interpretation can refuse to obey it.
 
andessmf
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:37 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
to get that war with Iran going.

It has already been determined from your own words in another thread that you are a believer in 9/11 conspiracies (for those in the know, she thinks BN747 makes a lot of sense). Now you make allegations that have no basis in fact.

I don't know what is going thru your head, but I suggest you take a break and relax.
 
RJdxer
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:18 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 6):
Even if they revoke his authority, he could always make a signing statement

Why would he even bother with that when A. he can be pretty sure this would be veto proof and B. an President worth his salt would see this as a direct threat to the seperation of powers and want the Supreme Court to rule on it?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
glydrflyr
Posts: 195
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:13 pm

If we just change a few words in the rhetoric we hear from Pelosi, Murtha and Schumer, we get something like this: We, the citizens of the United States, support our Congresspeople. After all, we voted to send these brave men and women to Washington, far away from from their homes and loved ones to face the terrible dangers in Congress. By golly, we support every last one of them, but we don't don't support their mission, we were misled about that by their campaign managers, so we're going to defund them, and stop paying our taxes. That will bring them home at last. (also, we'll have lot more money to spend as we wish for a little while, and that ain't bad.)
if ya gotta crash, hit something soft and cheap!
 
fr8mech
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:26 pm

So the Democrat Party wants a mulligan. They don't have the Constitutional to end the war by withdrawing the authorization. Congress may ratify a treaty that ends a war. Congress may choose to stop funding a war. But the may not get a do-over on the initial vote to authorize action.

See if they have the stones to witdraw funds.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
baroque
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:14 am

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 4):
Well let me help Blackbird out...

I have to say it is a surprise down here at the end of the world that a source was needed for Blackbird's thread - it has been all over the news here, and the daily papers. And I know it has not been suppressed in the US because I heard it on PBS as well.

As they say, it was in all the papers!

Most of the administration are saying that it is a different war, so while Bush supporters might want to question the concept, there certainly are logical reasons why a new authority should be sought. But that is a non partisan viewpoint.

I do not quite see how Congress wanting to check up on what has been done with an authority is forgetting separation of powers. Surely, IF the powers ARE really separate, that is exactly what they should be doing.

Lastly, this is not an attack on Blackbird as the wording would have to fit in the little slot for the title. However, can I ask what authority Bush currently has in Iraq? A lack of it is surely the crux of the problem, so discussing his authority in Iraq would seem to be no bad thing.

If a source IS needed it might be that we need a good one to refute the suggestion that a war on Iran is being prepared. Yes, I know the President has said he is not going to attack, but if so why put two carrier groups just off its coast and did he not say this about Iraq too?
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 11):
I have to say it is a surprise down here at the end of the world that a source was needed for Blackbird's thread

Rules are rules:

#8: If you have something to say, please do so; however be sure to mention your sources, perhaps with an HTML link or reference to a publication. If you are merely providing an opinion, please MENTION THIS in your post. We would like to avoid arguments based on rumors or misinformation.

It's been all over the news here as well. That is however, irrelevent.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 11):
However, can I ask what authority Bush currently has in Iraq?

Authority given by Congress in 2002. Info in the link RJDxer provided. Perhaps you oughta give it a read.




Bottom line: When the going gets tough, the Democrats run. As I said earlier - pre-election, when Pelosi and Reid were running their mouths - Congress now wants to Micro-Manage the military.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Queso
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:33 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 11):
However, can I ask what authority Bush currently has in Iraq?

Authority given by Congress in 2002. Info in the link RJDxer provided. Perhaps you oughta give it a read.

He doesn't even need that. He is Commander In Chief of the military.
 
connies4ever
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Bottom line: When the going gets tough, the Democrats run. As I said earlier - pre-election, when Pelosi and Reid were running their mouths - Congress now wants to Micro-Manage the military.

So WW2 (Dem Congress I believe) was an example of Dems running when the going got enormously tough?

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
If you have something to say, please do so

I agree, with the following caveat: If you have something _useful_ to say, other than simply a right-wing/neo-con/GOP rant -- which seems to this member to be the staple of any political discussion in this group.

IMHO, of course.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 14):
So WW2 (Dem Congress I believe) was an example of Dems running when the going got enormously tough?

Different era, different war, different mind set in the world. But if you really wanna go all the way back to WW2 - I mean 75 years ago - I guess that's ok.

The Dems we have now are no where near the Dems we had then. Neither are the Repubs. Neither - NEITHER - party has the interest of the American population at interest. What they have at interest is their next election, their special interest funding, their freebie trips in the name of politics, and the party. Screw the American people. Comparing our gov't of 2007 to our gov't of 1940s is ridiculous.

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 14):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
If you have something to say, please do so

I agree, with the following caveat: If you have something _useful_ to say, other than simply a right-wing/neo-con/GOP rant -- which seems to this member to be the staple of any political discussion in this group.

Keep in mind there Connies4Ever, all I did was quote the forum rules and answer Baroques comment.

You can find that exact text here for your reference:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/rules.main?confirm=no

And if you think this forum a bastion of Neo-Con BS, then you haven't been around long enough my friend. . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
MDorBust
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 14):
other than simply a right-wing/neo-con/GOP rant -- which seems to this member to be the staple of any political discussion in this group.

If you think that political dicussion on this forum are little more than "right-wing/neo-con/GOP rant[s]" then I must ask you what you consider right wing to be. Does it start at Ted Kennedy?

Everyone should be scared of what is happening in congress right now. They are trying to pass resolutions to limit what missions the miltary may conduct. Sound familiar anyone? We are at a critical point in history right now. Last time the government thought it knew how to fight a war better than the military a tough war became an unwinable war. Congress is on the verge of doing that very same thing again.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:03 am

Quoting 747hogg (Reply 1):
we are now the most hated nation in the world

...riiiiight, which explains the steady flow of both granted and applied-for immigration rights 2004, 2005, and 2006.
We're soooooo hated/reviled beyond all other places worldwide; but thousands upon thousands try to move here, many risking/forfeiting their lives in the process, every year. Get real dude.

Quoting 747hogg (Reply 1):
and are begging 42 year old grannies to join the army!

I CHALLENGE you to corroborate this drivel.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
baroque
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:07 am

Apologies ANC, I can now see that you needed a source as your refer to the motion already passed when it was clear that Blackbird was alluding to a forthcoming one, or at least it was clear to me.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 11):
However, can I ask what authority Bush currently has in Iraq?

Authority given by Congress in 2002. Info in the link RJDxer provided. Perhaps you oughta give it a read.

I did not ask what authority Congress tried to give him, possibly because I knew what that was. What I asked was what authority does Bush currently have in Iraq?

You are referring more to the responsibilities that he was given. He might have had authority in Iraq for about two weeks, although if the pillaging was being done under it, he should be ashamed and not have tolerated a Sec Def declaring that democracy is messy.

The responsibilities he should exercise have now have diverged greatly from the authority he has, hence the current problems.

And yet, it is quite difficult to know what (or which) authorities he is actually trying to exert. Clearly when it comes to Iranians, he jumps clear across the sovereign Iraqi government. At other times he does not, so what authority is he really trying to have in Iraq. Exactly how much authority has been handed over to Iraqi forces as they "stand up". This following site is not a great help
http://www.iraqigovernment.org/index-EN.htm

I ask again who has what authority in Iraq?
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 18):
What I asked was what authority does Bush currently have in Iraq?

Ahh, I see. Same as beforeas far employment of troops. The Resolution passed in 2002 is still valid.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 18):
Exactly how much authority has been handed over to Iraqi forces as they "stand up". This following site is not a great help
http://www.iraqigovernment.org/index-EN.htm

I ask again who has what authority in Iraq?

I see what you're asking. Thanks.

The link is a good read.

What I think - we oughta tell the Iraqi gov't "look fellas, you really need to crap or get off the pot". Further, I think the Iraqi gov't likely in league with an outside gov't - probably Iran - since both are Sunni. And no matter what we - the US does - it's not going to change anything there.

What I'm adamantly opposed to is a micro-managing Congress. And that is, I'm afraid, what is going to come to pass. Of course, the separation of powers will come to play, and eventually it'll all go away, but to be wasting time on this when the country has more pressing issues is ridiculous.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 18):
, he should be ashamed and not have tolerated a Sec Def declaring that democracy is messy.

Quite agree. I don't think you can find a post I've made where I thought Rumsfeld was worth a damn - ever. I believe, in all seriousness, that Rumsfeld BSd the PotUS and the PotUS could see the BS. PotUS needs to own up to that blunder and attempt to explain how and why he left such a wildly unpopular, unproductive, autocrat running the Pentagon for so long . . . all evidence pointing all the while to the fact that Rumsfeld was/is one of the worst SecDefs in history.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
I heard that in addition to the "Non-Binding" resolution, they are trying to pass a bill which would revoke the resolution which gave Bush the right to attack and occupy Iraq.

You don't think it's a little late for Congress to say Iraq cannot be attacked and occupied? Granted, Congress could cut off funding, but doing so would endanger our troops that are already there.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 12):
Authority given by Congress in 2002.

As well as his inherent authority under the US Constitution....

Quoting Queso (Reply 13):
He doesn't even need that. He is Commander In Chief of the military.

 checkmark 

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
Different era, different war, different mind set in the world.

Also, a clearly defined enemy and a clearly defined objective...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:41 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 19):
The link is a good read.

I agree it is fascinating, not so sure about good. I might hold an internal debate with myself to see whether that site or the EADS financials are the better read!!

I would think it was a series of mission statements, except it has clearly been in Arabic first and translated as in:

"He confirmed the necessity to stand against that ugly picture in different ways and plans to confront terrorism between force and firmness, dialogue and reconciliation for whom wants to join the political process to build Iraq and rescue its people if he doesn't commit any crime of murder or sabotage."

It has not so much meaning as it comes out in English, but what does it mean in Arabic I have to wonder. I conclude that there is little US input into those statements

The good part is that they have something written down. What we cannot see is the orders of the Occupation forces vis a vis the stuff on on the Iraqi site. I suspect there is still an overriding rule that a US order outranks anything up to and including Maliki (there you go, I nearly wrote Alawi). The trouble might be that the Iraqis do not then obey those orders. All in all it seems a mess.

Note: I have a feeling that some links that were live about an hour ago are now not so live. An evolving situation perhaps!!
 
RJdxer
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Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:56 am

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 14):
I agree, with the following caveat: If you have something _useful_ to say, other than simply a right-wing/neo-con/GOP rant -- which seems to this member to be the staple of any political discussion in this group.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl  Now there is a quote I'm going to save. It's going to be a rough day in the dispatch department due to weather, this will keep a smile on face, thanks Connies.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 17):

I CHALLENGE you to corroborate this drivel.

Well I will corroborate it. I'm not a grandfather yet, thank goodness, but I am 47 and got a call from the Army a little over a month ago. I put up a thread about it.
Military Vets Tell Me If This Was Joke (by RJdxer Jan 10 2007 in Non Aviation)

A couple of weeks ago I had to pick up my daughters hs transcripts to send to a college and happened to run into a couple of Marine recruiters. I asked them what the oldest is now that they will accept and they said 42. I believe the Army recruiter that called me wanted me to be a trainer of some sort, not actually go into combat. I'd be an easy target now, I can see Jamel telling Abdul to pick off the old gray slow one in the rear and put him out of his misery!

Quoting Baroque (Reply 18):
What I asked was what authority does Bush currently have in Iraq?

He is operating under the same authority granted him in 2002. There are several different avenues though. Argument still ensues as to whether the War Powers act is legitimate and would survive a hearing in front of the Supreme Court. War was never formally declared so the President's powers to invade Iraq all stem from the Congresses authorization in 2002. Congress really only has one way to deal with this and it is to restrict funds as they did with the Boland amendment in the 1980's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boland_amendment

The American public has repeatedly polled that they are not in favor of that so the democrats will do it at their peril. If it works and the troops come home unscathed, they are hero's. If it doesn't and the troops start taking a beating because they have to go through a checklist to see if they can actually shoot back, are they Al Queda, is this defense, are they crossing the border, etc. then I predict they will pay a heavy price in 2008. You want to be careful what you wish for when it comes to combat.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
747hogg
Posts: 168
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:13 am

"US ARMY MOVES UP AGE LIMIT TO 42" www.usarmy.com goarmy.gov army.com People want to come here in droves, yes, not to sacrifice for the new love of their lives, but Hey... Must Be The Money!! My brother in law was an M.D. in Cebu Philippines, he even trained one year back in 1999 in Cook County Hosp. in the burn unit. He now co owns a super shuttle van in Phoenix and he makes four times what he made in the Philippines. ($80.000) I see Islamic cab drivers all over the friggin country here at, excuse me...AIRPORTS with a medallion of the head of that world sunni leader (grand iotola sustani) in the sun visor, here in phoenix the city built a foot washing stand at the cab holding area so these followers of Osama can clean there feet before the five time a day prayers. I never see american flags or Bush stickers on these immigrant peoples cars, It's dog pile on the fat rich America, and suck it dry for all the benifits and freebes. Travel around like I do, to other countries.... Even in business meetings, the first topic is what in the hell is going on in the USA? how can you keep your fingers down in other nations painties, and not expect to get the shit stomped out of you?
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:54 pm

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In

Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):
If you think that political dicussion on this forum are little more than "right-wing/neo-con/GOP rant[s]" then I must ask you what you consider right wing to be. Does it start at Ted Kennedy?

My bad for not being clear about one thing: the right-wing posts I refer to tend to come from US-flagged posters. Many of the Euro/ME-flagged posters, and elsewhere, tend to have a rather more liberal or left-of-centre p.o.v., from what I can make out. Apologies to all if my earlier post was not as clear as it should have been.

That of course is only my reading of the posts, and I tend only to look at posts on this board that appear to refer to 'the global situation' (not necessarily only US issues). I'm puzzled by what I seem to see as very (for a Canadian) right-wing offerings when in the past 2 elections, from the vote counts the US is about 50-50 split Dem-GOP. I'd expect more posts promoting the Democratic position -- if there is such a thing. :^) Seems the Democrats more than the GOP are all over the map on major issues -- the war, terrorism, health care, taxes, etc. But then again they've always had a fractious party.

Ted Kennedy ? Well, he might be able to qualify for a Liberal party membership up here. As long as he doesn't drive over any bridges.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
Different era, different war, different mind set in the world. But if you really wanna go all the way back to WW2 - I mean 75 years ago - I guess that's ok.

The Dems we have now are no where near the Dems we had then. Neither are the Repubs. Neither - NEITHER - party has the interest of the American population at interest. What they have at interest is their next election, their special interest funding, their freebie trips in the name of politics, and the party. Screw the American people. Comparing our gov't of 2007 to our gov't of 1940s is ridiculous.

Maybe, but I've always thought that whatever the era, political parties always look to their own advantage first and then the national interest. Which is why so much of any country's foreign policy is driven entirely by local politics. So I'd partly agree with the above and partly disagree. Same holds true up here (or maybe down there since you're in Alaska) for our COnservatives and Liberals.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
DrDeke
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Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:13 am

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 19):
What I'm adamantly opposed to is a micro-managing Congress.

Why? The President doesn't seem to have been managing the war at all. Seems like it'd be better to have Congress do it than no-one at all.

DrDeke
If you don't want it known, don't say it on a phone.
 
Thomson735
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 8:37 am

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:59 am

If america withdraws from Iraq too early, like them idoti's want then you will be and should be taken apart, if you start something like this then please finish it, dont cry off, the worst thing america can do is pull its troops out, we ge the same BS here from ANti war protesters, total idiots wat will you achive by withdrawing from Iraq?? you think the violence will stop?? if you do you are insane the violence will intensify

The best thing you can do is increase the troop numbers and just try and complete the mission
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting 747hogg (Reply 23):
"US ARMY MOVES UP AGE LIMIT TO 42" www.usarmy.com goarmy.gov army.com

Other than the above, would you like to clarify just exactly WTF the balance of your post is relevent to?

Quoting DrDeke (Reply 25):
Why? The President doesn't seem to have been managing the war at all.

A plethora of reasons, not the least of which it's Constitutionally incorrect.

Further, most of those idiots in the House and Senate have no way to empathise. The few that do, with rare, rare exceptions, follow the party line no matter what.

Additionally, if you cannnot see the pure politics of the entire thing, then you should re-evaluate Dr. Deke. It's all politics and nothing but. As I said - NONE of the legislation is designed to help soldiers, only to help a politician. Think different, you're going to have to prove it to me Sir.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Joni
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Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:59 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
What baffles me is NONE of the actions by the Pelosi House or the Reid Senate are designed to favor the troops.

Don't you think that pulling the troops out of Iraq would be good for them?
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:06 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 28):
Don't you think that pulling the troops out of Iraq would be good for them?

Good for the troops?!

Hell, that's a silly question. Any time troops are not in the middle of a fire fight is good for them.

That said, it's irrelevent. They have a job to do and it's not done yet. So, a moot point.

The ONLY reason the Democrats want to cut and run is because they're pining for the next election already. You can't honestly believe the majority (dems or repubs) give a hoot in hell about a soldier do you?
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Mir
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:13 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 19):
And no matter what we - the US does - it's not going to change anything there.

What it is going to do is stop Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia and others from supporting their favorite sectarian group against all the others and jockeying for influence and power. I'm sure that China wouldn't mind a piece of the pie either. For that reason alone, we should think long and hard before pulling out.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:28 am

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 22):
Well I will corroborate it

...and fail thusfar.
Raising age of eligibility and "begging 42 year old grannies" are statements bearing significant differences -- not the least of which being that the former is substantiated fact; while the latter an interpretation of [warped] persective.

Quoting Thomson735 (Reply 26):
you think the violence will stop??

at that point, why would we then care?

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 27):
A plethora of reasons, not the least of which it's Constitutionally incorrect.

 checkmark 
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
sw733
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
This administration is one of the most corrupt yet; they are not trustworthy

I'm really curious to see if the next administration, be it Dem. or Rep., is any less corrupt. This is American politics in the 21st century (and, realistically, long before that)...it is corrupt, it will be corrupt, and both sides are corrupt.
 
Thomson735
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:23 am

erm, all governments are corrupt, either way one party can not please all
 
turbo7x7
Posts: 242
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In

Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:30 am

If the Dems are smart, they should give Shrubya enough rope to hang himself with.

He's f***ed up royally, at least when it comes to this whole Iraq thing, which anyone with half a brain can see it's all bulls*** and a complete dead end in the GWOT. If the Dems had any Machiavellian instinct, they would quiet down for 2007 and let Shrubya and Darth Cheney continue to muck things up, while pointing out every misstep along the way.

All our side needs is one more year of quagmire and frustration in Iraq. One more year of stories like Walter Reed and thousands of barbaric Iraqis blowing each other up. One more year of corruption, inefficiency, sweetheart military supplier deals for favored GOP supporters, of unreinforced Humvees, of soldiers being rushed to deployment and being delayed a return home to heartbroken and stressed to the limit families.

Shrubya and Darth Cheney want to stall. They want to dump the problem on the next president. If the next pres. is a Democrat (likely scenario IMHO), then it'll be a Democratic Pres. who will get the "credit" for "cut and run," something the GOP could use cynically for years to come in future political campaigns.

But I think it's worth the risk, as long as we keep calling Shrubya and Darth Cheney on their BS. As long as we keep reminding people who caused this tremendous f***-up in the first place.

About 60% of the country is already against the war, and let's face reality, in these kinds of things, public opinion very rarely swings back. Just ten more months. . . and THEN put the heat on! The GOP will be buried in '08.  Wink
 
RJdxer
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:31 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 31):
...and fail thusfar.

As stated I'm 47 and they cold called me to see if I would take the hook. If that's not a form of begging then I don't know what is. I know you have a mental complex that causes pain and anquish to even think that you're wrong so I'll leave it at that.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
ConcordeBoy
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Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In

Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:36 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 35):
As stated I'm 47 and they cold called me

Quoting RJdxer,reply=35:
I know you have a mental complex


....um, you consider yourself a "granny", and yet I'm the one with a mental complex?  boggled 
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
padraighaz
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:20 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 5):
That "non-binding" crap was just that. If the congress wants to call the president to the mats, they should do that. "Non-binding" reminds me of the useless garbage the UN pulls that has convinced me that organisation is next to useless.

Unless of course the target is a democrat (ala the Murtha resolution) - the republican sleaze version, not the original that Murtha proposed.

But that's different I suppose...
 
baroque
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 22):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 18):
What I asked was what authority does Bush currently have in Iraq?

He is operating under the same authority granted him in 2002.

That is a very US view of the problem. A. What authority granted. B Therefore this is the authority possessed. A=B end of story.

But, sorry to bear bad news, this is a real world and by the time it gets over to Iraq, A no longer = B. So there is not much point in reciting the 2002 story in trying to work out what authority PotUS now has in Iraq. Presumably IF he had the authority that he was supposed to have, there would be no problems at all in Iraq. There are problems, and his authority, indeed the authority of all figures on the US (actually the coalition) side in Iraq is considerably less than envisaged.

The really interesting bit is not what authority he was supposed to have, but what he actually does have.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
They have a job to do and it's not done yet.

Not having a go at you ANCF, more our beloved PM who keeps on and on about "getting the job done" but then he cannot begin to tell us what the JOB is. If the elements in the job were to be listed, this would be useful.

I suspect, that a number of things would happen if "the job" was listed. First there would be argument over more than 50% of it, and second it would be clear that a high proportion is simply not doable. I could be wrong. It would be nice to be wrong.

I am doing my best to post on the topic and not make general comments, but I would say that in the early stages, I sat there as hopeful as anyone waiting to see the lights go back on and US engineering get the water supply and sewage systems fixed. But hope faded with the lights, and the only bright spots were the explosions of car bombs and pipelines.

On the ground, there is precious little authority.

Another aspect that needs to be taken into account is that the views of the British generals about the situation in Basra seem to be quite different to those of Blair. That too may be relevant to the authority that Bush has in Iraq.
 
cedars747
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:51 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Too late ! The damage is already done

Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion /لدي شغف للطيران / I have a passion for aviation /Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart/ J'ai une passion pour l'aviation.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
You can't honestly believe the majority (dems or repubs) give a hoot in hell about a soldier do you?

Understatement of the thread and you couldn't be more spot-on.

They certainly don't and as the US establishment has repeatedly proven, it will sacrifice whatever is necessary in terms of both dollars and soldiers as far as the aims of multinational corporations and nebulous "national interest" are met. Note that the latter is never actually determined by the public in any discernible fashion. The sooner Americans realize they have absolutely zero control over the foreign policy conducted in their name, the better. Problem is they end up paying for it one way or the other while those calling the shots are never held accountable for anything.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:41 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 38):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 29):
They have a job to do and it's not done yet.

Not having a go at you ANCF,

No worries Baroque, I enjoy the conversation, and I definitely see your point here.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 38):
If the elements in the job were to be listed, this would be useful.

I'm quite sure that there are goals and the "job is listed". What I'm afraid of, with Congress getting their mitts into the fray and attampting to narrowly define 'the job', is that GIs will be hamstrung. It happened before - Vietnam for instance - where troops were required to call all the way back to Wash, DC to get permission to return fire. That is simple assinine on so many levels. First, no one in Congress is in the middle of the fight my friend. They are sitting in their cushy offices, with their Lattes and their next election on their minds. Second, the number of veterans in Congress is substantially lower than during the Vietnam time frame - absolutely no ability to empathise or have any frame of reference at all. Once again, assinine on too many levels. What know they of the operational art? No sir, Baroque, it's all politics and all about the next election. Nothing, nothing at all, to do with the troops. Nothing at all to do with Iraq. Simply all to do with the politician.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 38):
US engineering get the water supply and sewage systems fixed. But hope faded with the lights, and the only bright spots were the explosions of car bombs and pipelines.

That happened, on a grand scale. And continues to happen. Unfortunately, it's the insurgency that is blowing up their own infrastructure. Now, does that make any sense to you at all? I understand 'the coalition broke it, we have to fix it', and yet when that happens, the people we fix it for come in behind us an blow it up. Please explain the logic.  crazy 

Quoting Cedars747 (Reply 39):
Too late ! The damage is already done

Now here's a profound post. Wow, don't know if this thread could have survived without the wisdom imparted here  sarcastic 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
cedars747
Posts: 2584
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:04 am

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 41):
Now here's a profound post. Wow, don't know if this thread could have survived without the wisdom imparted here

Same story  crazy  No comment !

Hasta la victoria siempre !

Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion /لدي شغف للطيران / I have a passion for aviation /Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart/ J'ai une passion pour l'aviation.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 36):
um, you consider yourself a "granny", and yet I'm the one with a mental complex?

I consider myself of grand-parenting age yes. Does that mean I feel old, no. I have been cold called by the Army. I am actually 5 years older than the posters supposition. Marine Corp recruiters backed up the posters claim that indeed 42 year olds can enlist and that they would take them with only the standard questions asked.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
halls120
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
The Dems we have now are no where near the Dems we had then. Neither are the Repubs. Neither - NEITHER - party has the interest of the American population at interest. What they have at interest is their next election, their special interest funding, their freebie trips in the name of politics, and the party. Screw the American people. Comparing our gov't of 2007 to our gov't of 1940s is ridiculous.

The only thing that modern democrats and republicans believe in is getting reelected so that they continue to rake in the spoils of power.

Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 24):

Ted Kennedy ? Well, he might be able to qualify for a Liberal party membership up here. As long as he doesn't drive over any bridges.

 rotfl  Can we please ask you to invite him to move to Canada?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
padraighaz
Posts: 404
Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:50 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 44):
The only thing that modern democrats and republicans believe in is getting reelected so that they continue to rake in the spoils of power.

True dat.
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:22 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 5):
If you pass legislation that leaves them in place and pulls from them what they need to fight, you are as good as a traitor in my book.

Just as much as a traitor as one who lies to put them in harms way to begin with.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 7):
It has already been determined from your own words in another thread that you are a believer in 9/11 conspiracies (for those in the know, she thinks BN747 makes a lot of sense). Now you make allegations that have no basis in fact.

So what if this person believes in 9-11 conspiracies? A lot of people do. This has nothing to do with the thread title. You can't simply discredit a person because they don't believe everything that FAUX news told them about 9-11.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:38 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 46):

See example below from the thread starter.

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
I just hope they won't attack our fleet in the middle-east a'la the Gulf of Tonkin, and/or stage a terrorist attack within the US to blame on the Iranians

Anyone who is dumb enough to believe in 9/11 conspiracies is the person who can write the statement above, w/o proof or shred of evidence, and expect to be taken seriously.

From your other responses:

Quoting Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 85):
Where is the proof that FOX actually did this? I have seem plenty of claims, but not backup.

My own viewing between 9-11-01 and during the early stages of Iraq War during the Shock and Awe campaign. Many occassions Brit Hume and others mentioned the Saddam - Al Qaida connection. What better ways to fool viewers to support the Iraq war besides the invisible WMDs? Tell them that Iraq helped fund 9-11? I was one of the fools back then too.[/quote]
You got suckered in once, which easily means that you could have been fooled again, so forgive if I don't give much importance to your opinion.

[quote=NASCARAirforce
(Reply 46):
So what if this person believes in 9-11 conspiracies? A lot of people do.

To repeat myself again, just because a lot of people believe in something (Iraq/911 connection, WMDs, etc.) does not make it right, so don't use that argument with me.
 
baroque
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Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In

Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:00 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 41):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 38):
US engineering get the water supply and sewage systems fixed. But hope faded with the lights, and the only bright spots were the explosions of car bombs and pipelines.

That happened, on a grand scale. And continues to happen. Unfortunately, it's the insurgency that is blowing up their own infrastructure. Now, does that make any sense to you at all? I understand 'the coalition broke it, we have to fix it', and yet when that happens, the people we fix it for come in behind us an blow it up. Please explain the logic. crazy

Please continue to understand I am trying to dissect reality not barracking for any part of it!!

As to a tactic (or is it a strategy?) for the insurgents, blowing up infrastructure would be a definite possibility. If it is being used it does tell you quite a lot about relationships between on various sides of a (4D!!) polygon, the insurgents, Sunni population, Shia population, population to who the Shia/Sunni distinction means nothing, the tribal chiefs, the US military, the US part of the administration in Iraq, the Iraq government (now there is a complex variable!!), the US Administration, and the Pentagon.

Presumably if infrastructure destruction is used as a tactic, the insurgents feel that it is low cost to them and that the inhabitants will not feel badly towards the insurgents. Letting that happen is a major mistake. I have no idea how to prevent it, but it must have been preventable at SOME stage or other.

One aspect must be that IF significant reconstruction had occurred, not much was done to make this public. I suspect that there may have been attempts to reconstruct but not so much success. Rather than try and make a part of Baghdad safe, it might be better to make some part of the infrastructure work and make it safe and make sure that some areas get the benefit of that, electricity or water supply, or sewage systems, preferably all three.

Looking back, I can only remember with a bit of a shudder a statement along the lines of "we are not into nation building". Well OK, but to keep to that, you also have to avoid nation destruction. Unfortunately, it seems the "not into nation building" has stayed, but without thought for the other aspect.

As you know, I was not a great fan of the war, but that does not mean I think it is a great idea for the US to be in its current morass, far too many loose alligators for that to be a good idea. But it is by no means clear that the occupation has any chance of making the situation better. So any analysis that might make matters better is to be welcomed.

You can see that the insurgents are able to pursue chaos, and dispassionately, you would have to concede that they are being quite successful. Once you start to be able to think as they do, then you have a chance to prevent them achieving their aims.

Getting back to the topic, Bush has not the ability to stop the insurgents. He may have the responsibility, but effectively not the authority.

It reminds me of an old argument I had where someone said they were Acting Head of a Department and so could not take a particular course of action. Well, I replied, it is precisely because you are ACTING that you must take that action. Sadly I lost that argument even though I was correct, and Bush is losing this argument even though he is the substantive Pres. What you can actually do can be far from what you nominally should be able to do.
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
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RE: Congress Trying To Revoke Bush's Authority In Iraq

Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:56 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 47):
Anyone who is dumb enough to believe in 9/11 conspiracies is the person who can write the statement above, w/o proof or shred of evidence, and expect to be taken seriously.

Except how about when a Republican 10 -term Congressman believes that the U.S. might try to get involved in Iran after a staged incident?


This was reported in the AP the other day. I am not quoting this from the AP, but from a less "reliable" site. However you can ignore what comes after the first paragraph all you want. The point is read the first paragraph just to show "which" of these "tin hat" wearing congressman who is from Bush's state and party is saying this.

"Developments converge to signify inevitable conflict despite ongoing chaos in Iraq.

Prison Planet | January 15, 2007
Paul Joseph Watson

Republican Congressman and 2008 Presidential candidate Ron Paul fears a staged Gulf of Tonkin style incident may be used to provoke air strikes on Iran as numerous factors collide to heighten
expectations that America may soon be embroiled in its third war in six years.

Writing in his syndicated weekly column, the representative of Texas’ 14th district warns of “a contrived Gulf of Tonkin-type incident (that) may occur to gain popular support for an attack on Iran.”

The August 1964 Gulf of Tonkin incident, where US warships were apparently attacked by North Vietnamese PT Boats, was cited by President Johnson as a legitimate provocation mandating U.S. escalation in Vietnam, yet Tonkin was a staged charade that never took place. Declassified LBJ presidential tapes discuss how to spin the non-event to escalate it as justification for air strikes and the NSA faked intelligence data to make it appear as if two US ships had been lost.

Should a staged provocation take place in an attempt to justify striking Iran it would not be the first time the current administration has considered such a ploy.

In February 2006, documents were leaked of a conversation between British Prime Minister Tony Blair and President Bush in which different scenarios to try to provoke Saddam into making a rod for his own back were discussed. One included painting a U.S. spy plane in UN colors and flying it low over Iraq in the hope it would be shot down and the incident exploited as a means of enlisting international support for the 2003 invasion.

Paul, who on Friday announced his intention to run for President in 2008, has resolved to introduce legislation in the coming weeks to head off the drift towards war, encouraging a commitment to policies of dialogue as outlined by the Iraq Study Group.

Commentators largely agree that the furore surrounding President Bush’s speech in which he ordered the deployment of a further 20,000 troops to Iraq is a manufactured distraction to divert attention away from alarming developments that grease the skids for an inevitable conflict with Iran.

The New York Times and other establishment mouthpieces are busy regurgitating White House propaganda that Iran is supplying weapons to Iraqi insurgents that are killing U.S. troops. As columnist Larry Chin elaborates , “The Bush administration buildup towards Iran is strikingly similar to Hitler’s campaign against Poland, and the Third Reich’s eventual 1939 blitzkrieg. Hitler’s final act was to manufacture a “deliberate and cold-blooded provocation”, to be blamed on the Poles, which would bring down the vengeance of German armed forces. He accomplished this by putting drugged prisoners from a nearby concentration camp into Polish uniforms and shooting them near a radio station inside the German border. The “Polish attack on the Gleiwitz transmitter” marked the official start of World War Two.”

“In Hitler’s words, “I shall give the propagandist cause for starting the war. Never mind if it is implausible or not.”

In reality, the source of the IED technology being utilized by the insurgents goes back to the British security services, from whom it was acquired by the IRA and then sold around the world in the early nineties. Claims that Iran is helping Shia insurgents to make the devices is outright propaganda.

However, the only remaining justification that Neo-Cons cling to in an attempt to sell another conflict to a war-weary American public is the falsehood that American troops are being killed on the battlefield by insurgents with the direct assistance of Iran. This is the only rationale a majority of Americans will accept as grounds for war, overriding spurious warnings about weapons of mass destruction, a yarn they have seen spun once before.

As Chris Floyd points out, “Make no mistake: this is the marker that has now been put down; this is the card that’s been laid on the table. The Bush Administration has openly accused Iran of killing American soldiers in Iraq. Again, this is a charge far more resonant, far more effective as a pretext for war than anything offered during the successful stampede to invade Iraq. Even a president as weakened and isolated as Bush is at the moment would be able to get support for an attack on a state that was “killing our soldiers in the field.”

It is also now confirmed that the raid on the Iranian liaison office in Iraq, after which five Iranians were arrested and detained, was directly authorized by the White House in an attempt to provoke an Iranian response.

Whether Iran takes the bait or not, American aircraft carriers and nuclear submarines are multiplying in the Persian Gulf and Bush recently appointed Adm. William Fallon, a Navy veteran, to oversee the ground war in Iraq, a contradiction many fear betrays preparation for an air strike on Iran’s uranium enrichment facilities which could take place as soon as next month.

Whether the White House or the feverish Israelis will even feel the need to factor in a Gulf of Tonkin event remains to be seen, as the war drums beat ever louder and the next escalation of what the Neo-Cons call “World War Four” awaits final execution."

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