vanguard737
Posts: 523
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America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:21 am

I understand all of the problems with America...I hear about them every day in our own wonderful media, the European media, and all of our international friends on airliners.net

My question is why do we never hear of the problems with other countries? Do they not exist? Could it actually be that the rest of the world is just perfect and somehow the US is a renegade creating each and every problem today?

I hardly think that is the case.

Many people LOVE to stereotype Americans as being fat, lazy, uninformed, gun-toters, criminal killers, etc. Yet amazingly, most of these same people have never spent any time in America, except maybe on vacation.

So, what makes it perfectly alright for everyone else to tell us how terrible we are, but if Americans dare point fingers at anyone else we are all of a sudden the bad guy? Many of you have never even been here! It's all stereotypes!

I consider myself an informed person. I follow global events, I speak fluent German, I know alot about European history - probably more than most Europeans! But, I always know, that if I dare criticize anyone from Europe and to a lesser-extent people from other nations -- I will within 10 minutes be labeled an arrogant American. WHY???!!! Just tell me WHY!!!

It just gets to me because I feel most Americans are good people and are misunderstood and it sucks when people always spew stereotypes about us. I don't think the US is any better than any other country - but I don't think we are any worse either!

Pfeww...had to just get that off my chest!

 Smile
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TedTAce
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:30 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
So, what makes it perfectly alright for everyone else to tell us how terrible we are, but if Americans dare point fingers at anyone else we are all of a sudden the bad guy?

Because we start fights we have no business in and more importantly don't have a clue how to stop.
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vanguard737
Posts: 523
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:31 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
Because we start fights we have no business in and more importantly don't have a clue how to stop.

Nothing like generalizations...the true sign of intelligence.
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Banco
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 2):
Nothing like generalizations...the true sign of intelligence.

Ahem:

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
Many people LOVE to stereotype Americans as being fat, lazy, uninformed, gun-toters, criminal killers, etc.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:39 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
My question is why do we never hear of the problems with other countries?

Just go to the internet and pull up media from other countries and your question is answered about problems in other countries. Apparently the bean counters that run our media system would rather feed us fluff instead of real news. I can remember when the major networks had reporters all over the world..

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
but I don't think we are any worse either!

I can imagine that every country has its own set of concerns..i.e much rather be here than in Hugo land!
 
TedTAce
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:41 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 2):
Nothing like generalizations...the true sign of intelligence.

Nothing like insulting people who respond to your threads to make yourself feel better about how un-important you are huh?
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vanguard737
Posts: 523
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:41 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 3):
Ahem:

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
Many people LOVE to stereotype Americans as being fat, lazy, uninformed, gun-toters, criminal killers, etc.

And your point is? I was stating and recognizing stereotypes about Americans which are stupid and untrue - not agreeing with them.
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Confuscius
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:42 am

I don't think the US is any better than any other country..."

You just insulted the majority of Bush's supporters.
Ain't I a stinker?
 
MDorBust
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
Pfeww...had to just get that off my chest!

You do realize that instead of owning up to their ridiculous behavior, the very same people that you just ranted about are going to come in here and defend the very behavior you pointed out?

For example:

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
Because we start fights we have no business in and more importantly don't have a clue how to stop.

I'm sure the European colonial powers could tell us a thing or two about that.

Dear France, how are Indochina and Algeria going these days?
Spain, did you have a problem with Mexico?
Ah England, your list is too long to start.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
vanguard737
Posts: 523
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:44 am

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 7):
You just insulted the majority of Bush's supporters.

True...but in classic airliners.net fashion no one has yet to answer any of my questions lol!  Smile
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vanguard737
Posts: 523
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 8):
You do realize that instead of owning up to their ridiculous behavior, the very same people that you just ranted about are going to come in here and defend the very behavior you pointed out?



Absolutely! But luckily I am a tough cookie

[Edited 2007-02-28 22:46:50]
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mbmbos
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 2):
Nothing like generalizations...the true sign of intelligence.

1.

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
My question is why do we never hear of the problems with other countries?

2.

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
Yet amazingly, most of these same people have never spent any time in America, except maybe on vacation.

3.

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
So, what makes it perfectly alright for everyone else to tell us how terrible we are

I don't have any generalizations to spout, but here's a platitude: you reap what you sow. Congratulations!
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
vanguard737
Posts: 523
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 5):
Nothing like insulting people who respond to your threads to make yourself feel better about how un-important you are huh?

Ha! All I did is state a reality. if that offend you, maybe you need some self-reflection time?  Smile
BTW, did i call you unimportant? let's stop the childish name-calling before it starts.

Best regards
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Banco
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 6):
And your point is? I was stating and recognizing stereotypes about Americans which are stupid and untrue - not agreeing with them.

"Many people"?

Really?

Name them.

Otherwise you're generalising.

Now, it seems to me that what you really want it for a procession of people to come on here and profess how much they adore America. Well, a lot of people do as it happens, but I'm not going to sooth your wounded ego by doing it. I really don't care enough about America to do so anyway, and we have our own problems here. You're hyper-sensitive to any discussion on the US, and you don't notice when it's about someone else. That's not a criticism, we're all like that. How many threads on Denmark have there been? I haven't a clue. But we also have endless, ENDLESS repeat threads on some political nonentity that no-one gives a stuff about from lesser Iowa and then heaven help someone from outside the US who joins in because if they offer a word of criticism it's an example of anti-Americanism.

This constant navel-gazing is tiresome. There are plenty of threads on here where Britain gets a baashing, and I couldn't care less. Go for it, I wander away from here supremely indifferent, and I certainly don't start threads wondering why you're all being so beastly to us.

It's not a dig at you, you've just offered an expression of this constant approval seeking that we see on here a lot. Honestly, it's really boring!
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
vanguard737
Posts: 523
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:52 am

Ok, obviously intelligent conversations are a logistical impossibility on airliners.net

People get "offended" and cannot answer a simple question without being smart-asses.

So...I'm done even trying to read peoples responses - so no bother typing them.

Later!
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mt99
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
Many people LOVE to stereotype Americans as being fat, lazy, uninformed, gun-toters, criminal killers, etc. Yet amazingly, most of these same people have never spent any time in America, except maybe on vacation.

But love McDonalds, Hollywood movies.. ect,.. Just a fact of life. Get over it

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
My question is why do we never hear of the problems with other countries? Do they not exist?

We never hear them beacuse we are never presented with them. How many times has your local ABC, CBS, NBC or FOX 10PM news have utter the words: "Norway" or "Scotland".

Sure international news are out there, you can catch the BBC world news on PBS.. but the average american will not go thru the trouble in finding looking for them
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
Many people LOVE to stereotype Americans as being fat, lazy, uninformed, gun-toters, criminal killers, etc.

True...

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
So, what makes it perfectly alright for everyone else to tell us how terrible we are, but if Americans dare point fingers at anyone else we are all of a sudden the bad guy? Many of you have never even been here! It's all stereotypes!

...there's also the relatively common sentiment that non-Americans are somehow automatically more "aware" of geographical and historical events.

As per my own person experience with this:
I can run circles around 99.999% of anyone I run across in terms of geography, and I dare say that at 52 nations and counting; I've visited more foreign locales than the overwhelming majority of Western, Male, and/or Black 25yr-olds.... yet can't tell you how frustrating(ly common) it is for me to be asked the likes of "Yes back in [insert relatively major Euro/Asian/Australian/S.American city here], do you know where that is?" in general conversation with non-Americans.
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TedTAce
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:12 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 12):
All I did is state a reality.

 redflag 

This is 'reality':
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/profile.main?username=VANGUARD737

Quote:
Gender: Male
Age: 21-25
Occupation: Student
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LYRFlyer
Posts: 399
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 5):
Nothing like insulting people who respond to your threads to make yourself feel better about how un-important you are huh?



Quoting TedTAce (Reply 17):
This is 'reality':
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/profile.main?username=VANGUARD737

Quote:
Gender: Male
Age: 21-25
Occupation: Student

... and now you feel better, yourself?  Smile
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MaverickM11
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
So, what makes it perfectly alright for everyone else to tell us how terrible we are, but if Americans dare point fingers at anyone else we are all of a sudden the bad guy?

It's the curse/blessing of being number one, in any field. You always hear bad things about Walmart, Nike, Starbuck's, McDonald's, Microsoft--how often do you see the same about Target, Adidas, Seattle's Best, Burger King, or Apple?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
oly720man
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:20 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 4):
Just go to the internet and pull up media from other countries and your question is answered about problems in other countries. Apparently the bean counters that run our media system would rather feed us fluff instead of real news. I can remember when the major networks had reporters all over the world..

Yep, real news costs real money and having people where the news may happen. It's the same with investigative reporting.... worthy, but not really an earner especially when the investigations may wander into the territory of those who actually own, or are "friends" of those who own the media outlets. No-one's going to employ people who may tell the world how bad you are.

Why spend some hours (or minutes, or seconds) with some in-depth story (or even any story) that most of the country has little idea about when you can have the local exciting news (car chases, crashes, drugs, etc flashing past every 10 seconds) to keep you interested until the next advert break (which is what the news, and most other programs are really there for... to fill in the gaps between the adverts)

One book I read that covered this to some extent is

http://www.amazon.com/Into-Buzzsaw-L...g-Journalists-Expose/dp/1573929727

It is interesting, but written by journos who've been pulled off stories, or whose careers have suffered because they pursued stories. How much is truth and how much is being pi$$ed off I know not.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
petertenthije
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:35 am

I suppose there are several reasons why the US is under closer scrutiy. But the most obvious and by far most important one is that you are just the biggest player. In the Netherlands there is a proverb "hoge bomen vangen veel wind" (high trees catch a lot of wind). Basically, if you stand out, you are noticed.

Let's face it. When you watch the news in Europe you will always hear about the USA. Sometimes in very good light (disaster relief, the economy), sometimes in bad light (Iraq mostly). Why is this the case? Simple, if something happens to the US we will notice. If the US economy goes down, the European economy will suffer likewise. If the US goes into a war, then more often then not parts of Europe will follow.

The same does not apply for the USA. They are perfectly capable of sorting things out on their own if they set their mind to it. Therefor international affairs is not as big a factor on your news programs. That was also the reason why for instance Bush managed to get away with his "your with us or against us" approach for such a long time. When's the last time the Netherlands was on CNN, Fox or ABC? How long ago for Belgium? Or even a larger nation as Germany? Only the things that directly affect the USA will make the news, Iraq, Afghanistan, a bit of news from the UK.... maybe France.

Besides, most of the news in the US seems to be regional/national and sports/showbizz anyway with little time for the dare I say it more serious news.
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Dougloid
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:45 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 13):
But we also have endless, ENDLESS repeat threads on some political nonentity that no-one gives a stuff about from lesser Iowa and then heaven help someone from outside the US who joins in because if they offer a word of criticism it's an example of anti-Americanism.

Now just a minute there buckaroo....read mah profile, suh! Mah honuh has been compo-mazzed. Hay bales at ten paces.

Quoting Petertenthije (Reply 21):
I suppose there are several reasons why the US is under closer scrutiy. But the most obvious and by far most important one is that you are just the biggest player. In the Netherlands there is a proverb "hoge bomen vangen veel wind" (high trees catch a lot of wind). Basically, if you stand out, you are noticed.

The japanese have a saying: The nail that sticks up gets hammered down.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
speedbird747BA
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:03 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
Because we start fights we have no business in and more importantly don't have a clue how to stop.

Just a bit like WW1 and WW2.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 16):
I can run circles around 99.999% of anyone I run across in terms of geography,

HAHA, try me pal.

Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
AirWillie6475
Posts: 2372
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:05 pm

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
My question is why do we never hear of the problems with other countries? Do they not exist? Could it actually be that the rest of the world is just perfect and somehow the US is a renegade creating each and every problem today?

If you want to hear international news there's plenty of it it's called CNN, NBC, FOX News.

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
It just gets to me because I feel most Americans are good people and are misunderstood and it sucks when people always spew stereotypes about us. I don't think the US is any better than any other country - but I don't think we are any worse either!

I think people get the wrong impression because most Americans DO NOT care about what other countries think of them. Also a lot has to do with the resentment that how could these seemingly ignorant people have managed to have the most powerful country in the world with a lot of say in what the world can and can not do. I think it's very simple, we have a lot of hard workers.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:17 pm

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 23):
Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
Because we start fights we have no business in and more importantly don't have a clue how to stop.

Just a bit like WW1 and WW2.

Are you kidding me? Keyword: start. America clearly instigated WWI and II....  Yeah sure
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
speedbird747BA
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:24 pm

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 25):
Are you kidding me? Keyword: start. America clearly instigated WWI and II....

Do I have to put the sarcasm sign there? Did you really miss that?


Cheers,
Kyle
How long do I have to climb, up on the side of this mountain of mine?
 
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zippyjet
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:08 pm

There's only so much time in news blocks. And lets face it, many of us in the USA have the attention spans of a neutered cat. Also, if it bleeds it leads. And at least here in the states it's all about $$$$. Cram in as many commercials as you can. Plus, our government compells TV and radio stations to provide "charity radio and TV" public service announcements. So, that only leaves enough time for the putrifying body of Anna Nicole Smith and who's yo daddy (her baby girl's pappy) plus, the latest Britney Spears head shaving exposed smelly shaved beaver cluster fuck. Then, at least on local TV news it's the endless tragic police blotter stories; Shaquanda shoots Daionaise over ogling the 350 pound diva at the local Checkers. Then, at least on Baltimore News, it's time for those edge of your seat stories...Hard Rock Cafe celebrates their 10 year anniversary, the Geoduck that's eating all the poop around the waste treatment plants in Essex and Dundalk then attacking the local skanks. But wait, you still have to waste some news time on all the lottery number bullshit. You know let yourself play.....By then, those still watching TV are impatient for their dose of American Idol and Deal or No Deal. However, you have a lot of us who don't give a rat's ass about the afor-mentioned crap and investigate news stories on our own on this great thing we call the Internet.

I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
 
Lazarus31
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:05 pm

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
I consider myself an informed person. I follow global events, I speak fluent German, I know alot about European history - probably more than most Europeans! But, I always know, that if I dare criticize anyone from Europe and to a lesser-extent people from other nations -- I will within 10 minutes be labeled an arrogant American. WHY???!!! Just tell me WHY!!!



Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 12):
Ha! All I did is state a reality. if that offend you, maybe you need some self-reflection time?
BTW, did i call you unimportant? let's stop the childish name-calling before it starts.

Best regards



Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 14):
Ok, obviously intelligent conversations are a logistical impossibility on airliners.net

People get "offended" and cannot answer a simple question without being smart-asses.

So...I'm done even trying to read peoples responses - so no bother typing them.

Later!



Quoting VANGUARD737 (Reply 9):
True...but in classic airliners.net fashion no one has yet to answer any of my questions lol!

LMAO
        

I dont usually get into silly threads like this but i will answer the question for you. ITS BECAUSE OF SELF RIGHTEOUS 'WELL INFORMED GENTLEMEN' like urself , Starting dumarse threads like this one, that just goes round and round in circles.

I have many American friends and not a single one is 'arrogant, dum or uninformed' in anyway.

Laz

[Edited 2007-03-01 07:26:27]
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 3:58 pm

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
My question is why do we never hear of the problems with other countries? Do they not exist? Could it actually be that the rest of the world is just perfect and somehow the US is a renegade creating each and every problem today?

Since The USA is considered the only remaining Superpower.The Pressure on it to be perfect is always under scrutiny.
Hence Most Countries follow the Moves of the USA & hence its in the news.But def not in the Headlines out here unless its a significant event thats needs headline space.

Its also observed that the USA gets itsself into political problems & cannot get out of it eaisly,leaving the problem worseoff.

India is a Democracy & a huge one in terms of Population.The USA & India are very similiar but unfortunately were on opposite sides in the Coldwar.However lately the USA is reaslising the Importance of both Democracies being better friends & its working well.However most in India still suspect that the US is partial to whats their war on terror v/s India's war on terror.
If India wants to strike a terrorist state after Parliment was attacked & after frequent terror strikes on common Innocent people.We were advised to be paitent & restraint.But the same was not true of the USA.Till date OBL has not been captured because some state keeps fooling the US in believing they are doing their best.

Apart from the Support of India's War on terror from the USA.Most Indians do not hate the USA.In fact are very supportive of the USA.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:25 pm

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 26):
Do I have to put the sarcasm sign there? Did you really miss that?

Oh, so you were having the Great Wars history defend contemporary foreign policy and military invention. Yeah, because that makes sense. Thats like going to a Sharia country and saying...yeah..we had prohibition too..

Proud past, but can't and shouldn't act as a crutch for modern shortcomings in the 21st century.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:29 pm

Of course every country has its own probelms. No country is perfect. I think the problem is that some very vocal Americans claim the US is the absolute best at everything, and that the American way of doing things is the best period. You can't argue with them. If you point out any flaw in the US they claim you're just jealous of their "freedom" when in reality pretty much every western nation is just a free as the US, some are arguably more free in the post 9/11 world.

There are many things that are good about the US (low taxes, low unemployment relative to much of the world etc) but there are some things other countries do better (health care, public transport, education access for everybody etc.).

Also, remember that US media is pretty much available all over the globe, though I doubt there's much Swedish media being shown the US.

Kris
 
GuitrThree
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:55 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 7):
I don't think the US is any better than any other country..."

You just insulted the majority of Bush's supporters.

And at the same time, you made a lot of Democrats nod their head up and down in agreement.... While the Bush Supporters think America is the greatest nation in the world, Democrats don't think we are any better, in fact, if you listen to some of them, you'd think we were a horrible nation. We pollute, which to them, other countries magically don't do, we defend ourselves, which to them, other countries don't do, we don't give enough aid to the world, which to them other countries give as much... on and on and on.

So yes, as a Bush supporter, well, Conservative in general, that quote does insult me as an American.
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aloges
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RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:11 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 8):
Dear France, how are Indochina and Algeria going these days?
Spain, did you have a problem with Mexico?
Ah England, your list is too long to start.

Thing is, with the notable exceütions of Blair, Aznar, Berlusconi and other George Bush suck-ups, we have learnt from that very past not to keep fucking up other countries. Sure there is some involvement of "old European" forces around the globe, but nothing comes close to the Iraq disaster. We got burnt, so we'll stay away from the fire and we'd much appreciate if our allies didn't expect us to be glad to be pushed into it.

If it wasn't for the Bush administration, most of the world would think a lot better of the US. I keep telling myself that just shy of half of the voters voted against Bush and for his weak opponent the last time around, which is reassuring, but there's only so much comfort that'll give you if you're an Iraqi living in anticipation of the next car bomb around the corner.

As for problems in other countries, most of them don't have English as a first language so it's hard to discuss their internal matters in an English language forum. Seeing how everything containing more than a handful of non-English words gets deleted nowadays, I sure as hell won't start linking to and quoting from articles in German here - wouldn't want to get banned due to some branch-up-the-butt member complaining about a discussion he can only take part in via translation.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:40 pm

Quoting LYRFlyer (Reply 18):
... and now you feel better, yourself?

I feel better now, but not because of this thread...something to do with the very pleasant manner in which the wife woke me up this morning  Wink Something college kids usually don't get.
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Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:45 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 34):
something to do with the very pleasant manner in which the wife woke me up this morning Something college kids usually don't get.

Breakfast in bed. Aren't you lucky?  Wink
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 35):
Breakfast in bed. Aren't you lucky?

That too  Wink
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ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:12 pm

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 23):
HAHA, try me pal.

Hey Junior, I got fifty bucks on Freddie.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:35 pm

Quoting Speedbird747BA (Reply 23):
Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
Because we start fights we have no business in and more importantly don't have a clue how to stop.

Just a bit like WW1 and WW2.

Yep, we're learning it from the acknowledged and unchallenged masters of warmongery.

Glass houses, people.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 33):
Thing is, with the notable exceütions of Blair, Aznar, Berlusconi and other George Bush suck-ups, we have learnt from that very past not to keep fucking up other countries. Sure there is some involvement of "old European" forces around the globe, but nothing comes close to the Iraq disaster. We got burnt, so we'll stay away from the fire and we'd much appreciate if our allies didn't expect us to be glad to be pushed into it.

I appreciate your optimism and your sang-froid and looking toward a more positive future.

However, history isn't with you. I'll reserve judgment. In fact, I think that all the old antagonisms of Europe are still there, simmering just under the surface, suppressed by a relatively high standard of living and until recently the knowledge that in the next war Europe was going to be the playground...

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 36):
Quoting Banco (Reply 35):
Breakfast in bed. Aren't you lucky?

That too

Is this a new one or the one you were divorcing last week Tedly?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
pbottenb
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:29 am

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:44 am

Quoting VANGUARD737 (Thread starter):
My question is why do we never hear of the problems with other countries? Do they not exist? Could it actually be that the rest of the world is just perfect and somehow the US is a renegade creating each and every problem today?

I tend to agree with the basic premise of your rant. I am amazed at the outrage that the EU and the world hs consistently show over CIA activities during the war on terror (most if not all activities that the local govts cooperated with the US on...), yet they basically give Russia and her intelligence agencies a big pass when there is evidence alleging assanations using radioactive materials in multiple countries, that contaminate resturants, and multiple airplanes. Sure there are some press articles, but I have heard nothing of state prosecutions, ot of the EU Parliment taking up this issue.

If you want to get a good view of what the world press is saying in editorials check out www.watchingamerica.com. Very interesting.

thx
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:54 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 38):
last week

Where have you been for the past 5 months?

Let's just say up until recently the situation has been 'fluid' but things are getting a LOT better.
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Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:10 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 40):
Where have you been for the past 5 months?

Let's just say up until recently the situation has been 'fluid' but things are getting a LOT better.

Not looking over your shoulder is where I've been for the last five months Ted. Shall we say, reading the posts was too much drama for me....I have enough from my clients who pay me to listen....I'm sure you understand.

Best of luck....you'll need it.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 41):
you'll need it.

I need it EVERY SINGLE day!! Thankfully I usually get enough to wake up the next morning so that's good enough for me for now.
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Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:34 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):


Because we start fights we have no business in and more importantly don't have a clue how to stop.

 redflag Why doesn't anyone call bullshit on this?

Even if we accept the notion that Iraq meets this criteria, what other "fights [plural] did we start that we have no business in?" Did we start, WWI, WWII, Korea or Vietnam? Did we invade Kuwait? Did we arrange the slaughter of civilians in Bosnia? Was Afghanistan not our business? Do you believe that we had no business in Panama when Noreiga was running drugs to the US or detaining our citizens? How about Grenada when Cuba was expanding its influence in our backyard? Heck, let's go back to the War of 1812, did we start that? Heck, the only other action I can think of that we can be said to have started is maybe the Spanish-American war, but even then I don't think you can say that it wasn't or business.

So please tell me what other "fights" we've started in which we had no interest?

The single greatest enemy to liberalism is the truth. Fight it with facts.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:40 am

Quoting Pope (Reply 43):
Heck, let's go back to the War of 1812, did we start that?

Er...actually, yes you did.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 44):
Heck, let's go back to the War of 1812, did we start that?

Er...actually, yes you did.

We wouldn't have had to do that if you'd kept your dang hands off our sailors, not made common cause with our domestic enemies, and not strewed your mess with France to your eternal discredit...

Now....tell me what Britain would have done if the Peruvian Navy insisted on stopping British merchant shipping going about its lawful business and kidnaping its sailors? Punitive razee, anyone?
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 11:56 pm

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 45):
We wouldn't have had to do that if you'd kept your dang hands off our sailors, not made common cause with our domestic enemies, and not strewed your mess with France to your eternal discredit...

It's a bit of a myth that. The episode with the Leopard was five years before, the captain was reprimanded, and the British government apologised. As for British deserters on US ships - merchant ships, the difficulty here was the different standards of citizenship employed: The British view was that anyone born in Britain was a British citizen, America that people could be naturalised. That wouldn't have been an issue but for the fact that the US refused to issue papers confirming US citizenship to anyone. Some local authorities would issue unofficial papers, and when they did, they were accepted by the navy.

As for common cause with your enemies, do you mean Canada? It was an unprovoked land-grab based on Madison's foolish and entirely erroneous belief that France was about to win the Napoleonic Wars, and that Britain was entirely dependant on trade with the US. It's one of the most idiotic decisions any US President has made, and as the war went on, damn near caused the break up of the USA, with the eastern states considering secession due to his crazy decision to block trade. It made little difference to the British, but cause economic meltdown in New England. The British, in fact were extremely careful not to blockade with those willing to trade, and actually were welcomed into harbour on numerous occasions.

The war was completely self-inflicted by America, it was declared to the considerable surprise of the British because the President was an opportunistic moron. The myths that have built up around it suggesting that America had a good war are miles from the truth. It was nearly the end of your country.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
checkraiser
Posts: 814
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:35 am

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 44):
Er...actually, yes you did.

We were provoked.  Wink
N1120A is a camel-fucking terrorist.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Fri Mar 02, 2007 4:58 am

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 47):
Quoting Banco (Reply 44):
Er...actually, yes you did.

We were provoked.

OK - let's assume that we started it and that we weren't provoked. It still fails the second leg of Ted's test - "we had no business" in it.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: America - Cannot Win For Losing!

Fri Mar 02, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 46):
Quoting Dougloid (Reply 45):
We wouldn't have had to do that if you'd kept your dang hands off our sailors, not made common cause with our domestic enemies, and not strewed your mess with France to your eternal discredit...

It's a bit of a myth that.

Here's a pretty good summary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn

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