pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:39 pm

i just tried to log onto youtube, and when i went to www.youtube.com it told me that the website had been blocked by the new temp law, due to the extensive mocking and insults that were uploaded by an aparent Greek person. I never got a chance to view the video, but apparently people who did say that a certain person insults the Turkish culture extensively and makes crude, racist remarks against Ataturk, the founder of the Turkish Republic.....

What are your views on cyber racism?
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
Twistedwhisper
Posts: 689
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:52 pm

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:05 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter):
What are your views on cyber racism?

Here's my view: Another reason why Turkey does not belong within the EU.  duck 
Read between the lines.
 
aace24
Posts: 759
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:16 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:12 pm

So ONE person makes a questionable video and they block everybody from using the site?

Why not just remove the video?? Theres no need to block the whole site.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:19 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter):
What are your views on cyber racism?

It's worse than "conventional" racism because it can spread much faster and a near infinite amount of people can be addressed with very little effort. Of course, "insulting Turkishness" is a ridiculous nationalist/chauvinist article that enables censorship of basically everything, hence:

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 1):
Another reason why Turkey does not yet belong within the EU.

With that little word added, I completely agree. If such a sizeable portion of the population cannot live with a little mockery of Turkey, they indeed turn their country away from the EU. The EU was founded to overcome nationalist excesses and in the light of what happened to Hrant Dink and others, those are what many Turks must limit before joining the union.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:17 am

Quoting AAce24 (Reply 2):

as you probably know, youtube.com is not owned by turkey nor the turkish gov, so we can't remove something from youtube just like that

the reason why the government had it blocked was because people kept clicking it and watching it, and it was giving the person a high rating, and they didn't want this.....they also don't want young kids here to see this as there is a way to criticize people, but making fun of someone and an entire nation is seriously retarded in my opinion...

you don't think we belong in the EU because we are trying to preserve our national heritage, you would much rather people say WHATEVER they want, be it ill intended just so you can call yourself FREE and modern?

abusing freedom of speech is ridiculous, and letting people hide under that name is even more ridiculous...
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
aace24
Posts: 759
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:16 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
as you probably know, youtube.com is not owned by turkey nor the turkish gov, so we can't remove something from youtube just like that

But couldn't someone from the Turkish Government make a request to the YouTube admins to have it removed?
 
LHStarAlliance
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 3):
With that little word added, I completely agree. If such a sizeable portion of the population cannot live with a little mockery of Turkey, they indeed turn their country away from the EU. The EU was founded to overcome nationalist excesses and in the light of what happened to Hrant Dink and others, those are what many Turks must limit before joining the union.

Yea maybe in 20 years or + but now the EU has to digest all members that have just joined ... and as you say thinks like
Hrant Dink murder can not happen in a EU nation ...

and don´t forget most EU citizens don´t want Turkey in the EU ...

Quoting AAce24 (Reply 5):

well if they can block www.youtube.com , they also could block just the video URL ...
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
FlyKev
Crew
Posts: 1295
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:34 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:48 am

If you want to view you tube, just find a proxy server.
Real easy to setup, and will allow access to the site.
http://www.proxy4free.com/page1.html should help.

Kev.
The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
you don't think we belong in the EU because we are trying to preserve our national heritage

No, it is because people openly sympathise with his murderer (white hats in Trabzon), because Orhan Pamuk can hardly leave his house anymore, because calling the Armenian genocide what it was got you into prison at least until recently and because "denigration of Turkishness", i.e. disagreement with nationalistic interests, is punishable by law.
I do definitely not object to admitting Turkey to the EU because the Turkish are proud of their country, I object because disagreement with that pride is punishable and gets some dissidents murdered.

But to give credit where credit is due, it is a good thing that at least some of the nationalists behind the murder of Hrant dink were arrested. Justice takes time, so we may later see what comes of this. It is also a good thing that the death penalty was abolished, transforming even the sentence against Abdullah Öcalan (not insinuating that you might not know who that is, Pilotaydin  Wink ) into a prison sentence.

So all in all, what I think is that the nationalist movement in Turkey still is too strong for the country to become a member of the EU. Obviously, reforms need time to take effect, I guess they will take a positive effect on the Turkish population in that respect.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter):
i just tried to log onto youtube, and when i went to www.youtube.com it told me that the website had been blocked by the new temp law, due to the extensive mocking and insults
What are your views on cyber racism?

-
The problem quite obviously is the reaction of the Turkish authorities to block a WEBsite just due to some anti-Turkish video placed somewhere. What if the author of that video had exactly THIS in mind ? To damage the interests of all Turks interested in "youtube" . You will always have some unfriendly unpolite and somewhat insulting material on the internet. But to react in the way, the Turkish authorities apparently have done, is wrong, is censorship, and is discriminatory against all others.  boggled   down   grumpy 
-

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
the reason why the government had it blocked was because people kept clicking it and watching it, and it was giving the person a high rating, and they didn't want this....

what the Turkish government has done here is medieval censorship and discriminatory for all "producers" and "customers" except one single "author"

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
.they also don't want young kids here to see this as there is a way to criticize people, but making fun of someone and an entire nation is seriously retarded in my opinion...

I expect Turkish people to react appropriately by NOT watching that video. What the government ought to have done is warning people about that embarassing video. Instead of this, they now make fun and mockery of their own nation, and such is as seriously retarded as anything
-

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 6):
maybe in 20 years or + but now the EU has to digest all members that have just joined ...

of course not now, but 20 years is rubbish, as Turkey under the present arrangments no longer is better off in regard to Europe than Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan, who in comparison to Turkey have the advantage to be in the Arab Leage at the same time, while Turkey only has Europe as viable option
-

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 6):
don´t forget most EU citizens don´t want Turkey in the EU ...

by that "logic" the MontanUnion/EEC/EU would never have started as in the 50ies a majority of NON-German Europeans did not want Germany to be inside "Europe". And the same applied to other EU-members of today.
-

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
you don't think we belong in the EU because we are trying to preserve our national heritage, you would much rather people say WHATEVER they want, be it ill intended just so you can call yourself FREE and modern?

to put it quite the other way round, a European country does NOT block out a WEBsite just because one contribution is hostile in a way. What a European country WILL do under such circumstances is to contact YOUTUBE with a clear request to remove such a video immediately. I am sure, also Turkey now would and hopefully WILL succeed with such a request.
-
 
Klaus
Posts: 20578
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
you don't think we belong in the EU because we are trying to preserve our national heritage

If your national heritage is so weak that it doesn't even survive just being mocked by someone, there's no point in defending it anyway.

Authoritarian rules like the law against any criticism of turkish society, policies or history present a picture of a deeply insecure and weak culture.

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
you would much rather people say WHATEVER they want, be it ill intended just so you can call yourself FREE and modern?

Exactly. That's the deal.

A strong and sovereign nation and culture doesn't need to fear criticism, it can openly face it and improve itself if the criticism turns out to be warranted.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
What a European country WILL do under such circumstances is to contact YOUTUBE with a clear request to remove such a video immediately.

Not quite, I'd say. I don't know the nature os that "anti-Turkish" video, it could be full outright slander and lies, it could be an immature teenager's attempt at getting his 15 minutes of fame or it could feature vast exaggerations based on select little bits of history. To be honest, I don't care much either. In any case, I seriously doubt that any non-narcissist government of an EU member nation (i.e. excluding Berlusconi's former government and the Kaczyński twins) would deem the video important enough to act against it. The internet is for porn full of slander as it is, some puny little video on YouTube would only gain considerable momentum if a government did something about it. Otherwise it would probably be out of sight quicker than you can say "boring".
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
What a European country WILL do under such circumstances is to contact YOUTUBE with a clear request to remove such a video immediately.
--
Not quite, I'd say. I don't know the nature os that "anti-Turkish" video, it could be full outright slander and lies, it could be an immature teenager's attempt at getting his 15 minutes of fame or it could feature vast exaggerations

-
I frankly spoken do NOT have the slightest knowledge of what is on that video, and do NOT particularily care. What I KNOW however are the various, often extreme, sensitivities in the Mediterranean "basin" where such rubbish indeed can ignite heavy emotional outbursts. If in charge in Turkey, I for sure would contact and if needed even pressurize "youtube" even if regarding the matter as a minor tragedy and realizing that those at "youtube" would regard me as a bit a childish grumpy old git ! What the Turkish authorities show here is an embarassing extent of clumsiness !!
-

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
an EU member nation (i.e. excluding Berlusconi's f

here a list of some present & former European politicians who WOULD act accordingly for sure :
Silvio Berlusconi - former Prime Minister Italy
Christoph Blocher - Justice Minister Switzerland
Franz Josef Strauss - former Prime Minister of Bavaria
Herbert Wehner - former SPD politician of "fame"
Prince Philip -- husband of QEII
Mr Haider --- Austrian politician
Mr Koller -- former Justice Minister Switzerland
Mrs Thatcher -- former Prime Minister United Kingdom
Georges Pompidou -- former President France
-- just to name a few ---
-

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
gain considerable momentum if a government did something about it. Otherwise it would probably be out of sight quicker than you can say "boring".

THAT of course is a problem. A certain writer only got success with his book(s) thanks to a Fatwa which brought his boring things into the limelight !
-
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
you would much rather people say WHATEVER they want, be it ill intended just so you can call yourself FREE and modern?

What problem do you have with your countrymen being free, including having the freedom of expression, and the freedom to come to their own conclusions about criticism? What you're implying is that the Turkish people don't have the facility to determine what's parody or not, and I simply disagree with that conclusion. If they do, educate them, don't restrict them from it.
International Homo of Mystery
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:00 am

The Turkish government makes a fool out of itself. This is absolutely ridiculous. It seems that in Turkey there is no freedom of press and speech. I only hope that the EU never ever accepts this country. They simply do not have the European understanding of democracy. Perhaps they could make an alliance with Iraq.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15221
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:03 am

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 1):
Another reason why Turkey does not belong within the EU

Amen to that.

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
the reason why the government had it blocked was because people kept clicking it and watching it, and it was giving the person a high rating

When will people LEARN, especially in this age of instant information transfer, that banning/restricting/fatwa-ing information is almost ALWAYS guaranteed to have the exact OPPOSITE effect.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 14):
the EU never ever accepts this country.

Turkey has made quite some progress in recent decades. But such episodes show that there still is some way to go !
-

Quoting ZRH (Reply 14):
an alliance with Iraq.

no communalities ! Except the Kurds -- and that hardly is a good basis.
-

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
people kept clicking it and watching it

this shows that people were interested to watch it, whenever NOT out of agreeing. And wanted to know about it. So that, to hinder them from doing so is limiting their personal freedom of information
-

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
When will people LEARN, especially in this age of instant information transfer, that banning/restricting/fatwa-ing information is almost ALWAYS guaranteed to have the exact OPPOSITE effect.

-
I have seen a positive thing in Tunisia. The government of Abidine Ben-Ali, a person far away from REAL democracy, who in 2001 still had some WEBsites "restricted" (only accessible with a permit from the relevant ministry) in the meantime has dropped such things, so that things are much nicer now in his country. It is sad, that the Turkish government, in spite of having real democracy, has not yet learnt as much
-
 
EWS
Posts: 3369
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:41 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:01 am

Doesnt sound to good! But easily sorted with the proxies mentioned above.

Lew
 
MKEdude
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 9:55 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 1):
Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter):
What are your views on cyber racism?

Here's my view: Another reason why Turkey does not belong within the EU.

 checkmark 

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
as you probably know, youtube.com is not owned by turkey nor the turkish gov, so we can't remove something from youtube just like that

the reason why the government had it blocked was because people kept clicking it and watching it, and it was giving the person a high rating, and they didn't want this.....they also don't want young kids here to see this as there is a way to criticize people, but making fun of someone and an entire nation is seriously retarded in my opinion...

you don't think we belong in the EU because we are trying to preserve our national heritage, you would much rather people say WHATEVER they want, be it ill intended just so you can call yourself FREE and modern?

abusing freedom of speech is ridiculous, and letting people hide under that name is even more ridiculous...

Proof that you just don't get it.

Freedom of speech is not about protecting what is popular, or protecting national pride. In fact it is the exact opposite.

Even without having seen the video in question I have no problem believing that it is just as childish and immature as you claim it to be. Nevertheless when you block that kind of speech what to you block next? Better yet, to whom do you surrender the authority to make those decisions on your behalf? And what master does that entity serve?

Living in a free society is not easy. It actually requires thick skin, and the patience to endure and tolerate those whom you would like to see strung up from a tree. Only those who are insecure about their own selves feel the need to lash out against those whose only weapons are words.

Freedom is about maturity, it is about being an adult. From this example it is clear that Turkey has a lot of growing up to do.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
agill
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:49 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 18):

Freedom of speech is not about protecting what is popular, or protecting national pride. In fact it is the exact opposite.

So true and so hard for people to understand.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting Agill (Reply 19):
Freedom of speech is not about protecting what is popular, or protecting national pride. In fact it is the exact opposite.
--
So true and so hard for people to understand.

-
Embarassing in a way is that those authorities make a WEBsite in total liable for a single contribution.
-
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 18):
From this example it is clear that Turkey has a lot of growing up to do.

And growing up is what they are doing, however they have to balance the pace between what their population will tolerate and what the EU requires. It's a difficult thing to do, but necessary to maintain stability. Bear in mind that Turkey is a very secular country, and to be honest I am glad their "honour" is based on nationalism rather than on Islam. If the EU had a religiously fundamentalistic Turkey as its direct neighbour, then we'd truly need heaven to help us.
As it is these days, both the EU and Turkey need time before Turkey can join, the EU needs to stabilise after the latest admissions of 10+2 countries and Turkey needs to continue its reforms and let them take their effect. To agree that Turkey doesn't belong in the EU on grounds of "immaturity" and at the same time require them to do "a lot of growing up" is nonsense.

It is on the cultural, historic and even geographic levels that Turkey's qualification can be discussed. On one hand, there is considerable cultural exchange between the EU and Turkey, simply through all the immigrants that live here and are, often, half German (or Swedish, or Italian) and half Turkish in culture and/or in blood. That could enable the Turkish people to play the role of an ambassador between the EU and the Middle East, which would indeed be very helpful.
On the other hand, it is a fact that Europe is a predominantly Christian continent and Turkey is a predominantly Islamic cuntry. While that issue does not have to make an important difference as far as the secular aspects of a country/region are concerned, it very easily can make one. Whether we need to overcome it or can coexist "happily ever after" will remain a key question.

Lastly, if Turkey is admitted - who in Asia will ask next, and would the EU be able to cope with an admission of, while we're at it, Israel? Undoubtedly, an admission of Turkey would redefine the political meaning of the term "Europe".
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
When will people LEARN, especially in this age of instant information transfer, that banning/restricting/fatwa-ing information is almost ALWAYS guaranteed to have the exact OPPOSITE effect.

More so since the rest of the world can still "enjoy" all that mockery and all those insults the Turkish government wants to get rid of.
What's the point in keeping Turkish people from insults against Atatürk, the founder of your country? Your government reacts as if a website would be out of the world if they just censor their own country.
I support the right to arm bears
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:13 am

I actually don't even understand why the Turkish government respond on such a stupid video. I am sure that such a thing in all European countries simply would be ignored, it wouldn't even be a topic. Our government has more serious problems than such a crap. What's the matter with the Turkish? Is there such a lack of self confidence?
 
Asturias
Posts: 1953
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:32 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:24 am

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 1):
Here's my view: Another reason why Turkey does not ever belong within the EU.   

With the addition of that little word, I agree completely! What do I think of cyber-racism? That question has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Rather: What do people think of backward nationalistic fascism. Why does Turkey want to join the EU? We have *nothing* in common.

Nothing.

saludos

Asturias
Tonight we fly
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter):
What are your views on cyber racism?

Racism does not bother me, I can always ignore the person and go on with my life. What would scare the shit out of me is when my government decided what I can see and what I can't.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 25):
What would scare the shit out of me is when my government decided what I can see and what I can't.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:11 am

I just read the article on BBC and there is no mention of racist remarks. I could be wrong as I have not seen it, but perhaps it is nationalist remarks and not racist.

BTW the original poster failed to mention that Turks have been making inflammatory videos of the Greeks as well.

Krikey, you would think that they are west coast and east coast rappers.

According to Turkish media, there has been a "virtual war" between Greek and Turkish users of the site, with both sides posting insulting videos.

The clip prompting the ban reportedly dubbed Ataturk and Turks homosexuals.


I wonder if this will change my perspective of Turkish bath houses in the bay area?

I don't read anything about racism.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6427355.stm
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
ThePRGuy
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:07 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:17 am

Absolutely ridiculous.

If they cannot handle a slight mockery of their country - when the UK and US are happy for youtube to be live with constant mocks of the government - then they need a real wake up call.

Bugger off out of the European Union thats what I say.

Regards,

The EU (bar Turkey)
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
User avatar
yowza
Posts: 4275
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:09 pm

Quoting ThePRGuy (Reply 28):
Bugger off out of the European Union thats what I say.

Um... they're not in the EU  Yeah sure

YOWza
 
joffie
Posts: 814
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:45 pm

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:36 pm

According to a free newspaper i read on the bus today, it says

Nice one:

"A Turkish court ordered that access to YouTube be blocked after a prosectuor said some videos insulted the founder of mordern Turkey, Mustfa Kemal Ataturk. The head of the countries larges telecommunications provider said the company quickly conplied. Insulting the founder is a crime in Turkey, punishible by prison. Youtube visitors from Turkey now get a message saying: "Access to this site has been blocked vy a court decision." Youtube expressed dismay, saying that the offending video had been removed and that it was working with the Turkish government to resolve the situation"


Source, MX paper, Thursday, march 8 2007 page 8

What a mouthfull and a load of BS
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5423
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:01 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
we are trying to preserve our national heritage

Using censorship???  Confused
 
Twistedwhisper
Posts: 689
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:52 pm

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:56 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
the reason why the government had it blocked was because people kept clicking it and watching it, and it was giving the person a high rating, and they didn't want this.....

I don't know how it is in other (EU) countries... but in Sweden, this is forbidden.
A government representative (or someone who acts on behalf of the government) can not tell a private company (such as an ISP) or a civil servant (such as tax collectors, police officers or judges) what to do.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 3):

yet

Of course, this was what I meant. We should never carve anything in stone. Nothing. Ever.
There are quite a few items on the Turkish goverments "to-do" list, before we should even consider them

Quoting Asturias (Reply 24):
With the addition of that little word, I agree completely!

And just to clearify, the word added was "ever". Not my point of view, as can be understood from my statement above.
Read between the lines.
 
pilotaydin
Posts: 2099
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:30 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:03 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
A strong and sovereign nation and culture doesn't need to fear criticism, it can openly face it and improve itself if the criticism turns out to be warranted.

First off, a lot of you modern, perfectly functioning EU members need to hold your horses... you are judging Turkey based on our efforts to join the EU. Since when does the EU set the standards for perfection? I'm sick of reading your one line answer to everything is "Turkey doesnt belong in the EU" blah blah blah....take a look at all your countries...take a look at their past, would you prefer that people tried to help your country to get into the EU or just purely discriminate...

the fact is, by saying Turkey doesn't belong in the EU etc etc, this is a form of discrimination, i thought the EU was a statue of modern day democracy and leaderhip...what kind of global leadership is this? someone wants to join your club, and you aren't helping....if you arent going to help, then all of you pick up a pen and paper, and write your government and cut off ALL ties with turkey, i just hate how when it's convenient all of you can praise turkey and then the smallest thing happens all of you cut to DROP TURKEY out with turkey
this kind of attitude isn't productive for the o so amazing europe you want

obviously if a country isn't up to par, there are issues, this is the same thing as making fun of a retarded person, if they could solve their issue, they would...what are you doing by comparing yourselves as better people?
The only time there is too much fuel onboard, is when you're on fire!
 
jpetekyxmd80
Posts: 3958
Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2003 3:16 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:20 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 33):
the fact is, by saying Turkey doesn't belong in the EU etc etc, this is a form of discrimination

Since when is the EU a right and not a privilege?


If your sentiments about this matter are anywhere near that of most Turks and the GOV (which is a given, i suppose), then i'll have to agree with all the other posts in this thread. You have no comprehension or, or respect for, the ideals shared by modern democracies and EU members with regards to freedom of speech etc.

If your government persists with these RIDICULOUS types of censorship and bullshit laws like:

Quoting Joffie (Reply 30):
Insulting the founder is a crime in Turkey, punishible by prison.

..Turkey will be on the outside looking in for a long, long time.

And the worst part of all is your attempts to rationalize and condone these actions.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
rammstein
Posts: 697
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:05 pm

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:05 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Thread starter):
but apparently people who did say that a certain person insults the Turkish culture extensively and makes crude, racist remarks against Ataturk, the founder of the Turkish Republic

What I find more alarming are the continuous insults written by Greeks against the Turks and vice-versa. Internet is not the real life, but gives a good impression of the current feelings of the two populations. Time to grow up for both maybe? (I really hope these attacks, spread in many forums/blogs/etc., are written by bored teenagers and not full-grown adults...)

Said that, I understand that Mr. Ataturk was a great statesman, and any attack/insult against him was/is idiotic and asinine. But... Turks are smart enough to understand that a stupid video made buy a stupid anonymous person can't damage the image of this person, so was blocking their freedom to view it necessary? Internet is full of crap written by anonymous cowards, let's block the internet then?

This action was probably felt by the Government as positive and necessary ("let's protect the image of our great founder"), but any censorship, positive or negative, is always bad because smells of dictatorship.

My question is now: what was the reaction of the Turkish public after this ban?

Quoting Aloges (Reply 21):
As it is these days, both the EU and Turkey need time before Turkey can join, the EU needs to stabilise after the latest admissions of 10+2 countries and Turkey needs to continue its reforms and let them take their effect. To agree that Turkey doesn't belong in the EU on grounds of "immaturity" and at the same time require them to do "a lot of growing up" is nonsense.

Exactly. Both EU and Turkey need some time to stabilise and reform. With latest admissions of Romania and Bulgaria, EU put a huge bet on the fact they were ready (huge doubts here IMHO) and that EU will not suffer somehow. Turkey, on the other hand, made great advances in reforms and democratization, and will need some time for making more.
He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:34 pm

Quoting ZRH (Reply 23):
I actually don't even understand why the Turkish government respond on such a stupid video. I am sure that such a thing in all European countries simply would be ignored, it wouldn't even be a topic. Our government has more serious problems than such a crap. What's the matter with the Turkish? Is there such a lack of self confidence?

-
I think I quite well understand the emotional reaction of the Turkish government, but simply regard it as absolutely WRONG. The problem actually is NOT a lack of self confidence but the tendency of many people in the Mediterranean to react emotionally to such occurrences. However, to block a whole WEBsite just due to the contribution of one user, apparently in the assumption that the WEBsite as such is liable and responsible, and in the belief that by blocking it inside Turkey it is out of the world, reveals a serious shortcoming of those in government in Ankara.
-
It reminds me of a Turkish school-friend who refused to accept the existance of "Kurds" and "Kurdish language" as for him there were "Mountain Turks" (Berg-Türken) and they just had a weird Turkish dialect and similar positions.
-

Quoting Asturias (Reply 24):
Rather: What do people think of backward nationalistic fascism. Why does Turkey want to join the EU? We have *nothing* in common.

With exactly such arguments, Europeans in the 1960ies and into the 1970ies "explained" why Spain could NOT be really "European". The Spanish government of those days quite often reacted in exactly that way. Turkey of today and Spain of those days have LOTS in common. Turkey today just as Spain then is a country with many modern people but authorities with authoritarian ideas and notions.
-
And why does Turkey want to join the EU ?
> Turkey's only option in regard to international communities is Europe, no alternative
> Turkey already is in a wide-reaching association with the E.U.
> Turkey is culturally and economically linked with Europe
> More than 15 mio. Turks live in Western Europe
> AND, as right now, 8 Arab countries (Mediterranean) are becoming associated with the E.U., actually with association treaties along the lines of the Israeli-EU treaty, Turkey is in danger to become the "odd man out"
--> therefore it would now be close to deadline to drop such outdated notions right NOW
Does Turkey want to join the EU right NOW ?
> no, not really. Why not ? because the EU minimum wages would ruin the Turkish carpet industry
> because a too swift entry might lure qualified personnel out of Turkey to Western Europe (brain-drain)
-

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 27):
there is no mention of racist remarks

I have NOT seen it either but am perfectly sure that "racism" in this is only used as a kind of rethorical slogan.
-

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 33):
perfectly functioning EU members

"perfectly functioning" may be a bit of an exaggeration, but EU members have to live up to minimal standards, and abstain from such steps as discussed about above

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 33):
our efforts to join the EU. Since when does the EU set the standards

The E.U. has set the standards since the days of the Montan Union. So that whomever wants to join the E.U. or even just arrive at decent bilateral agreements has to meet the E.U.-standards

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 33):
saying Turkey doesn't belong in the EU etc etc, this is a form of discrimination

such is an inevitable result whenever such things as discussed above occur

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 33):
wants to join your club, and you aren't helping....if you arent going to help

quite many people in the E.U. including many many politicians ARE trying their very best to help Turkey on its way into the E.U.. So that your statement is an unbased generalisation.

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 33):
all of you cut to DROP TURKEY out with turkey

"all of you" ? such a statement is an extreme exaggeration and generalisation and not appropriate
-

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 34):
Since when is the EU a right and not a privilege?

it is NEITHER one nor the other.
-

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 34):
If your sentiments about this matter are anywhere near that of most Turks and the GOV (which is a given, i suppose),

I think you got it wrong three times. Most people in Turkey, the government and also the poster above are in favour of joining the E.U. . AND if you read in post nr 4, you can see """ people kept clicking it and watching it ...high rating """
which proves beyond doubt that quite many Turks in reality ARE open-minded and DID watch it, even if hardly agreeing. And in a point "PilotAydin" is correct and that is that when the Italian or Greek governments launch such rubbish, NOBODY says that they are NON-European, but just that the government in question is not up to the situation. So that while it highlights a problem Turkey still has, such episodes and episode it will have become before long, canNOT be the basis to judge Turkey, but quite possibly be a reason to criticize the Turkish authorities, which is a difference.
-

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 34):
You have no comprehension or, or respect for, the ideals shared by modern democracies and EU members with regards to freedom of speech etc.

This is an extreme exaggeration and generalisation. I canNOT say about "PilotAydin" but for sure about the many democratically minded politicians and voters in Turkey, that they DO SHARE the ideals shared by modern democracies in regard to freedom of speech etc .
-

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 34):
government persists with these RIDICULOUS types of censorship and bullshit laws like:
---
Quoting Joffie (Reply 30):
Insulting the founder is a crime in Turkey, punishible by prison.
--
..Turkey will be on the outside looking in for a long, long time.

-
Turkey WOULD be on the OFFSIDE for a long time, but these laws will have to come down. I fully support all those Turks who work and act in favour of continued liberalisation and democratisation of their country. I support some pressure be put on that country accordingly.
-

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 34):
condone these actions.

does he really condone these "actions" ? he put the matter up for discussion. his actual personal views are unclear and practically irrelevant. so that assaults on his personal views are NOT appropriate
-

[Edited 2007-03-08 12:50:54]
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5423
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 16):
It is sad, that the Turkish government, in spite of having real democracy, has not yet learnt as much

You can hardly have a "real" democracy with freedom of expression so severely restricted as is the case with this ridiculous "Turkishness Act".

Quoting Rammstein (Reply 35):
I understand that Mr. Ataturk was a great statesman, and any attack/insult against him was/is idiotic and asinine.

No matter how great statesman he might have been, it still perfectly fine to criticize him or make fun of him. As a politician he is perfectly legitimate target. If the Turks choose to worship him then fine, but it does not mean everyone else has to treat him as a demi-god.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:05 am

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 37):
It is sad, that the Turkish government, in spite of having real democracy, has not yet learnt as much
--
You can hardly have a "real" democracy with freedom of expression so severely restricted as is the case with this ridiculous "Turkishness Act".

-
with "real democracy" I meant really democratic elections. But YES, with such extreme laws I would NOT feel to have a REAL democracy in the way of how you express it here. So that quite a lot remains to be done for Turkey. And as much as I support their E.U.-aspirations, I quite clearly hold to the opinion that there canNOT be an entry for a Turkey with such ridiculous laws. The "puc" really is with them !
-

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 37):
No matter how great statesman he might have been, it still perfectly fine to criticize him or make fun of him. As a politician he is perfectly legitimate target. If the Turks choose to worship him then fine, but it does not mean everyone else has to treat him as a demi-god.

correct. And if the Turkish government is of the opinion that something like that is intolerable, they should act sensibly and first contact those in charge, in this case the owners of such a WEBsite. It is interesting to see that Youtube already has deleted that video. I might have quite some understanding for the Turkish authorities had they acted in a shrewd way instead of the clumsy way they have chosen.
-
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:07 pm

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 4):
you would much rather people say WHATEVER they want, be it ill intended just so you can call yourself FREE and modern?

Yes. Absolutely. In every possible case.

NS
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2023
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:14 pm

I'd really like to see Turkey in the EU, and attitudes such as that of Asturias do really border on the racist; however, events like this make it clear that that will have to be several years down the line.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 11):
The internet is for porn full of slander as it is,

 rotf   rotf 

Classic... thanks for lightening up this thread!

Quoting Pilotaydin (Reply 33):
the fact is, by saying Turkey doesn't belong in the EU etc etc, this is a form of discrimination, i thought the EU was a statue of modern day democracy and leaderhip...what kind of global leadership is this? someone wants to join your club, and you aren't helping....if you arent going to help, then all of you pick up a pen and paper, and write your government and cut off ALL ties with turkey, i just hate how when it's convenient all of you can praise turkey and then the smallest thing happens all of you cut to DROP TURKEY out with turkey

W...T...F? I have no idea what you are talking about so here's a bunny with....oh never mind...
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
jafa39
Posts: 4320
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:14 pm

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:12 pm

Hold on there boys and girls...was it not too long ago that "UnAmerican Activities" was/is a punishable offence?

How about all the snooping on Poms that the UK govt gets up to?

Sure, Turkey has some issues but jeeeezus!!!! Aren't we all just a bit too ready to pounce???

Spread the love, spread the Arohanui, please!
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
User avatar
HAWK21M
Posts: 29867
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:45 pm

Sad Case.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Youtube Website Blocked By All Turkish ISP

Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:13 pm

Quoting Jafa39 (Reply 41):
Turkey has some issues but jeeeezus!!!! Aren't we all just a bit too ready to pounce???

the way in which that "pouncing" has taken place on here must have been frustrating for "PilotAydin" I fear ! While it was and is necessary to point out that the Turkish authorities have to improve something, the various all-out attacks against Turkey and its E.U.-aspirations were at least surprising. To give the example of Switzerland, where until the 1980ies, imported films were subject to federal permits and even a kind of lowkey-censorship, but where such stuff was dropped more or less in the meantime, NOT LEAST thanks to the Bilateral Agreements with the E.U.. Such things show the POSITIVE impact the """ the EU ... standards for perfection """ have in such cases !
-

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: PacificBeach88 and 17 guests