mbj-11
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Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:31 am

Many "alleged" Third world countries were made so by the plundering of former colonial masters who used the gains to develop their own "first world" nations. These nations and their citizens I am sure would fight tooth and nail to refuse such a pay back as it would be a massive pay out which would no doubt make them into Third World countries.Unfortunately as one whose homeland was a victim of the horrendous system I say alas, we might as well let it go.What is your view on the topic.
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slave

Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:04 am

Im against slavery, and what happened was appalling and a dreadful thing, but...

I have nothing to apologise for, I have nothing to repay anyone for, its not my fault, it has never been my fault and I dont see why I should be held in any way responsable for the actions of people a hundred years or more ago.

These countries have had a century to get it together, and they havent. Many third world countries are poor and destitute because of poor leadership, not because the events of a century or more ago have continuing and ongoing repurcussions.

Take as an example India - its taken them less than 50 years to go from a colony of the British Empire to an extremely strong, relatively rich and powerful independant country.

To all such countries - Stop whining and start taking responsability for your own problems.

[Edited 2007-03-10 23:05:24]
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:06 am

No reparations. It's a slippery slope.

I think the US has paid a high enough price for its legacy of slavery. It's time to move on.
 
deltagator
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:11 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
I have nothing to apologise for, I have nothing to repay anyone for, its not my fault, it has never been my fault and I dont see why I should be held in any way responsable for the actions of people a hundred years or more ago.

My family owned slaves in the 1800s and before and I have nothing to apologize for, nothing to repay anyone, or feel any sort of blame for what happened under such a system that was legal at the time. Even with slaves our family is no "old money" family sitting around counting the millions made on the backs of others. We worked our butts off to get where we are today and what my ancestors did more than 100 years ago has no effect on anyone today.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
To all such countries - Stop whining and start taking responsability for your own problems.

The same could be said for certain groups in the US that would rather bitch and moan versus taking control of their lives and stop blaming others for their problems when the least little thing (or hurricane) happens.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:15 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3):

The same could be said for certain groups in the US that would rather bitch and moan versus taking control of their lives and stop blaming others for their problems when the least little thing (or hurricane) happens.

Thank you...glad I'm not the only one who feels that way! You ought to see some people over here...they blame us for the UK's gun crime problems, drug problems, obese kids, etc. I get so sick of it.  banghead 
 
TransWorldSTL
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 7:57 am

Wasn't there recently a movement to get former slave states to apologize to black people? It's stupid.

I don't expect states to publicly apologize to me for banning gay marriage a hundred years from now, when gays are finally given the same rights as straight couples.


And I made the comparison between slavery and gay marriage, because back during the times of slavery, people just honestly believed that black people were 2nd rate humans. Eventually society outgrew those thoughts, but in present times, some people honestly believe that being gay is a choice, and we shouldn't be given the same rights as everyone else.. Eventually (I hope!) society will outgrow these thoughts as well, and the gay marriage/rights debate will be something people look back on and think "Why did anyone ever try to ban gay marriage???"
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3):
The same could be said for certain groups in the US that would rather bitch and moan versus taking control of their lives and stop blaming others for their problems when the least little thing (or hurricane) happens.



Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 4):
Thank you...glad I'm not the only one who feels that way! You ought to see some people over here...they blame us for the UK's gun crime problems, drug problems, obese kids, etc. I get so sick of it.

It's easier to blame others than it is to take blame yourself.

My ancestors weren't even in this country when slavery was here (mind you that statement in no way means I agree with it). My ancestors had their own set of problems.

As far as reparations go, an apology is a good way to start. Too much time has passed to put a dollar amount on it. What would mean more to those who were enslaved would be never to let it happen again. If we were to give reparations to countries that were directly involved in slave trade, where do we stop?

Slavery was a terrible blight on any countries history. It was not just the US (and it continues to this day in other forms (sex slaves, work slaves, child slaves) that was involved.

What matters is the fact it should not continue. Focus on that.
You can't cure stupid
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:36 am

"Sins of the father" eh? We commonly acknowledge that laws cannot be applied retroactively, and yet this reparations nonsense keeps coming up - retroactive morality. Archeology demonstrates that empires have existed in all parts of the world and throughout history. The phenomenon is not limited to the current "first world" nations - it is in fact a product of human nature. The actions of our ancestors may be deplorable by current standards, but in those earlier times most people accepted the building of empires as lawful.

Yes, you should let it go, but not because it's a hopeless cause. You should let it go because it's a fallacy that you are owed anything. Best to make your own way in life and not ask for handouts.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 1):
To all such countries - Stop whining and start taking responsability for your own problems.

 checkmark Agree with your entire post.

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 2):
I think the US has paid a high enough price for its legacy of slavery. It's time to move on.

The original post doesn't mention slavery, so I'm not sure why you responded this way. In any case, the US was not the only nation that ever had slavery...in fact slavery existed in the colonies prior the formation of the United States. In that sense, slavery was a product of imperialism that has left lasting damage to our nation. Perhaps we should demand reparations from Britain and Spain?

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 5):
a hundred years from now, when gays are finally given the same rights as straight couples.

A bit tangential, don't you think? "Same rights" is closer than most gays seem to realize...what you're driving at is more like "full acceptance" and that sort of cultural change is difficult to predict.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 7):
The original post doesn't mention slavery, so I'm not sure why you responded this way. In any case, the US was not the only nation that ever had slavery...in fact slavery existed in the colonies prior the formation of the United States. In that sense, slavery was a product of imperialism that has left lasting damage to our nation. Perhaps we should demand reparations from Britain and Spain?

Heh; if you bring that up with the British they'll smugly remind you that they banned slavery before we did, and it didn't take a war that killed 500,000 people to do it. They fought bigger and longer wars over far more petty issues, though, and they pretty much set the slave trade in motion; so as far as I'm concerned they're just as culpable as we are...if not more so. How soon they forget their imperialist past!
 
srbmod
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:54 am

No, because the countries in Africa didn't even exist in their current form at the time that the African slave trade to the Americas was at its' height. Nearly all of the countries in Africa are the result of colonial powers establishing borders (This is the root cause of some of the civil wars and genocide in Africa, but that's a subject for another thread.). In some cases, it was the tribal leaders themselves that sold their own people into slavery.
 
TransWorldSTL
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 7):
"Same rights" is closer than most gays seem to realize...what you're driving at is more like "full acceptance" and that sort of cultural change is difficult to predict.

Oh really?

Then explain to me why gay partners can't fulfill the others wishes when they're incapacitated in the hospital?
Why do gay partners have no rights over each others wishes as far as funerals/estates/etc go?
Why can my Missouri employer come up to me one day and say "You're gay. You can't work here", when they can't do the same thing to a black person?

I could go on.
 
cfalk
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):
Many "alleged" Third world countries were made so by the plundering of former colonial masters who used the gains to develop their own "first world" nations. These nations and their citizens I am sure would fight tooth and nail to refuse such a pay back as it would be a massive pay out which would no doubt make them into Third World countries.

When you are talking about things that happenned to people who are all long-dead, such as the slaves, there is no stopping it anymore. Should the US sue Britain for its abuses? How about Britain suing France (or at least the population of Normandy) for having invaded England in 1066 and subjecting it to a brutal repression (why do you think all those castles were built around the British countryside?).

It was a different world back then. I say leave it be and get on with your lives.

As far as the third world goes, It's all about eliminating the culture of coruption which is the trademark of the third world. Every third world leader seems to be intent on getting millions (even billions) of dollars into his own personal bank account before he is either thrown out or assassinated, and this mentality is contagious throughout the government.
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MaverickM11
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:00 am

I have a tough time punishing someone today for sins that their distant forefathers committed. But who do you pay? Take Ghana for example. It was a major source of slaves for the Americas, but all those slaves could not have gotten to the forts that put them on the ships without the help of the natives. Moreover, the natives themselves had a history of slavery. Do you pay Ghana? Do you only pay the Ghanaians that are descendant from tribes that weren't complicit in the slave trade?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
AA787823
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:00 am

I personally dont think there should be payments. That was a long time ago, and whats done is done. You can open a can of worms and have all other types then demanding payments

[Edited 2007-03-11 03:07:44]
F.U.R.P.....Families Under Reduced Pay
 
AC773
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting Mbj-11 (Thread starter):
Many "alleged" Third world countries were made so by the plundering of former colonial masters who used the gains to develop their own "first world" nations.

Well, you do have a point. Before the Spanish and British came through Jamaica, it was one of the world's leading sugar-exporting nations. Jamaica had formed a government, set up a national infrastructure, and built large ships so that all that sugar could be exported and sold to countries that wanted it. Also, the British and Spanish were both a lot of blithering, impoverished idiots who couldn't do anything to help themselves before they began the slave trade.

Oh wait, that's not how it happened. How silly of me!  Yeah sure
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mbj-11
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:39 am

Quoting AC773 (Reply 14):
Well, you do have a point. Before the Spanish and British came through Jamaica, it was one of the world's leading sugar-exporting nations. Jamaica had formed a government, set up a national infrastructure, and built large ships so that all that sugar could be exported and sold to countries that wanted it. Also, the British and Spanish were both a lot of blithering, impoverished idiots who couldn't do anything to help themselves before they began the slave trade

ahh ... the bliss of the educated
Jesus is the Christ and he alone saves
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:50 am

I'm against it period. I dispise of it and feel bad for those who are slaves.

MCOflyer
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baroque
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 10:59 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 6):
What matters is the fact it should not continue. Focus on that.

Odd how many threads there are on sins past and so few on how to stop a current widespread and pernicious set of practices.

Would any countries claiming to be innocent of CURRENT slavery, please indicate their innocence?
 
Banco
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:13 pm

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 8):
and they pretty much set the slave trade in motion; so as far as I'm concerned they're just as culpable as we are...if not more so. How soon they forget their imperialist past!

Not remotely true. Britain came to the slave trade later than any other European country and then were first to abolish it. None of that makes the slightest difference in terms of the evil of slavery, but if you're going to slag us off, at least get your facts right. As for "forgetting" our imperial past, that's just nonsense. British self-flagellation over empire has gone one for years and years, and all too often people aren't aware of the other side of the coin.

Equally, though Britain is definitely culpable to a major degree for the slave trade, it is still a fact that not only did Britain abolish the slave trade first, but also imposed that abolition on everyone else, enforcing it through the Royal Navy, and stopping ships of all flags and registry (including the United States) to free them. If you're going to talk about "petty" wars, you might at least acknowledge that successive British governments told the US to take a hike when they termed British policy an act of war.

There is a great deal to be ashamed of in British history, but there are also elements to be rather proud about. Forcing the end of the slave trade upon an extremely unwilling world is one of them.
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tz757300
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
But who do you pay?

This post is about American Slavery, not other countries that had it.

We actually had a whole 2 day discussion on this issue. If you were going to pay the descendants of slaves reperations for slavery, you would have to root through at least 4 generations of a family tree to figure out who gets money. For each slave, I could imagine at least 50 or more people getting money for them. Multiply that by say, 1,000,000, and you have a very large chunk of the country getting money. Once you figure out that, how much should be paid? If you get aside 100 million dollars for reparations, each person would get $10 and that doesn't mean squat in terms of todays economy. But if you go the other way and say each person get $500, that would be 500 million dollars going to where money can be better spent.

On a personal note, I think people who ask for reparations, are really just trying to make a quick buck. Yes, it is quite unfortunate that your ancestors were slaves, but please, don't ask for money. If you really want a thing for reparation, build a African-American History Museum, and cherish what the slaves sacrificed their lives for. Remember slaves, don't make a buck off of them.

We actually paid a reparation, The Civil War, the north ended slavery in the South. How much more can we give out?

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3):
The same could be said for certain groups in the US that would rather bitch and moan versus taking control of their lives and stop blaming others for their problems when the least little thing (or hurricane) happens.

Yes, I feel the same way too. I'm sure the reason they can't get their lives together due to a lack of money supply from the Fed's. They'll complain about the money flow, the media will complain about the money flow, but you know what, Nobody is asking for change. If they really want money that bad, scream for reforming the process, that way money will get to you. Just don't sit on your lazy ass.
LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Mon Mar 12, 2007 5:42 am

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 10):
Oh really?

Yes, really. Depends a whole lot on where you live. The country as a whole is certainly moving to a more live-and-let-live attitude.

Quoting TransWorldSTL (Reply 10):
Then explain to me why gay partners can't fulfill the others wishes when they're incapacitated in the hospital?
Why do gay partners have no rights over each others wishes as far as funerals/estates/etc go?
Why can my Missouri employer come up to me one day and say "You're gay. You can't work here", when they can't do the same thing to a black person?

As I said, these things depends very much on where you are. Legal rights specific to gays (civil unions etc.) vary widely in our country. Employer policies vary widely too. Many companies would protect you from such treatment, and many states have laws that include gays as a "protected class".

I've never lived in Missouri and can't speak to the environment there. If you don't like how you're treated, vote with your feet!
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
TransWorldSTL
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 20):
As I said, these things depends very much on where you are. Legal rights specific to gays (civil unions etc.) vary widely in our country. Employer policies vary widely too. Many companies would protect you from such treatment, and many states have laws that include gays as a "protected class".

I've never lived in Missouri and can't speak to the environment there. If you don't like how you're treated, vote with your feet!

The things I mentioned should be national rights.. I shouldn't have to weigh my decision on what state to live in by whether I could get fired for being gay, or whether I have the right to get my partner's medical wishes fulfilled.

I don't live in Missouri either, so I can't vote for rights over there. I live in Illinois, where luckily, I'm protected from employer discrimination.. I pay both IL and MO income taxes, and I deal with over 2 million people every year (most being from Missouri), so it was a real kick in the pants when Missouri voted to ban gay marriage, knowing the people that I help make happy every day are the same people who voted to keep gays from being happy.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:29 am

No. Just like they shouldn't pay reparations to indigenous cultures (in NZs case the Maori) . It was culturally acceptable to do many things at the time, but that are now abhorrent to modern culture. Most cultures used to burn witches/gays,kill those who didn't agree with those in power etc etc but we don't pay out descendants of people were executed by the draconian laws of the day and later pardoned.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:33 am

Would African nation have to pay reparations to themselves for the slave trade? It's not like the slave trade consisted of Europeans walking around in Africa randomly grabbing people and putting them on boats. It's convenient to forget that different ethnic groups were selling each other to the Europeans.
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pelican
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:37 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 18):
Britain came to the slave trade later than any other European country and then were first to abolish it.

Well, that is quite an interesting claim  Wink

pelican
 
MKEdude
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:49 am

As the recent revelation about the relationship between Strom Thurmond and Al Sharpton reveal, slavery is not ancient history. Here in the United States the persistent gap between blacks and whites in virtually all realms; educational, economic, social, etc. is a direct result of the institution of slavery, and the era of segregation that followed. That being said I'm not sure what reparations would actually accomplish. Slavery was a shameful chapter in the history of ours, and many other nations, but we need to look more towards the promise of the future than mire ourselves in the mistakes of the past as I believe the continuing debate over reparations does.

We need to seriously reevaluate our priorities as a society and look towards solutions that will lift all persons out of the cycle of poverty, regardless of race. Targeting efforts on blacks at the expense of equally impoverished Latinos and rural whites is ultimately unconstructive and would lead to further divisiveness.

Internationally, specifically in the countries of Africa which are still suffering from the hangover of colonization, there is only so much that the United States and other economically developed nations can do. While nonsensical borders drawn on a whim by European powers, and the chessboard shenanigans of the cold war that propped up brutal military regimes have set back African progress by generations, local problems must have local solutions. A lesson we are currently learning in Iraq.

Debt relief must be at the top of the agenda, followed by investment in nations lead by stable democratic regimes. Investment that focuses on education, infrastructure, and medical assistance (specifically HIV meds). These efforts, headed by competent local officials, can jumpstart many African economies and eventually lead to a rise in the standard of living. As I mentioned this is dependent on competent officals who have their nations best interest at heart. For corruption, and petty tribal and ethnic squabbles are doing as much to set back African progress today as the Europeans, the Americans, and the Soviets ever did.

No matter what the legacy of slavery will certianly outlive anyone who reads these words today. The question is what can be done to improve the lives of those who struggle in its wake. Hollow aplogies and blank checks will accomplish very little.
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline." Frank Zappa
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:50 am

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 19):
This post is about American Slavery, not other countries that had it.

But how do you isolate American slavery when it was part of a major triangle trade route involving major players in Europe, Africa, and the Americas?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
deltagator
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:04 am

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 25):
We need to seriously reevaluate our priorities as a society and look towards solutions that will lift all persons out of the cycle of poverty, regardless of race.

Very true.

Quoting MKEdude (Reply 25):
Targeting efforts on blacks at the expense of equally impoverished Latinos and rural whites is ultimately unconstructive and would lead to further divisiveness.

In simple terms, race warlords like Sharpton, Jackson, and assorted others like them will never allow something like that to happen. To them they are the only minority that counts and anyone who dares to disagree with them is branded a racist. As I said earlier in the thread it is far easier for them to continue blaming others for their shortcomings than actually take control of their lives and do something with it.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
tz757300
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:04 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
But how do you isolate American slavery when it was part of a major triangle trade route involving major players in Europe, Africa, and the Americas?

Well, I have no knowledge on African or European slavery so I didn't talk about it. I was just talking about the effect of reparations in the US, no where else.
LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
 
baroque
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Mon Mar 12, 2007 1:10 pm

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 28):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
But how do you isolate American slavery when it was part of a major triangle trade route involving major players in Europe, Africa, and the Americas?

Well, I have no knowledge on African or European slavery so I didn't talk about it. I was just talking about the effect of reparations in the US, no where else.

You can talk about it as if it only affected the US, but that is not the case and the thread starter did not request that either. MaverickM11 is correct, although I would add that the web stretched wider than that, and there are major current issues of slavery right across the world.

Take an SQ flight from Saudi to Singapore with a plane load of returning Indonesian maids who have worked for three years and been dumped at the airport without having been paid - at all in many cases.

To think that slavery affects only the US and only in the past, is a really strange case of US exceptionalism.
 
tz757300
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 29):
To think that slavery affects only the US and only in the past, is a really strange case of US exceptionalism.

You are putting words in my mouth. All I was referring to is the US. I have not denied there is/was slavery across the world. Slavery in the US was in the past and that is what I was referring to. That is why I included "This post is about US slavery, not other countries that had it." I'm sorry I didn't include the slavery happening today, but as I said, that is not what my post was about.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 29):
thread starter did not request that either.

The thread starter didn't request anything
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baroque
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 30):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 29):
thread starter did not request that either.

The thread starter didn't request anything

Indeed, but it did not preclude it either.

Past slavery is still a problem, but the current version is even more of a problem. It seems unfortunate if we let the current problem drift while focussing on one that has at least been stopped, if not fully resolved in terms of the resulting problems.  Smile

I still get the uncomfortable feeling that you think slavery is purely a past problem for the US (?and the rest of the west). Perhaps one of our law officers will enlighten us, is it?
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:45 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 18):
There is a great deal to be ashamed of in British history, but there are also elements to be rather proud about. Forcing the end of the slave trade upon an extremely unwilling world is one of them.

As far as I'm concerned all that is is evening the score; the British imposed so much misery upon people all over the planet that 'stopping the slave trade' is but one of many steps that should have been taken in order for Britain to absolve itself of its past sins.

We're not angels, but neither are the British. I wish they would understand that when they're slagging off my country to me every single day and polishing their halos.

The British did not abolish slavery in the Empire until the 1830s, and even then many were kept on as indentured servants, and I think it is perfectly fair to blame the British for America's legacy of slavery since we would not have had them had the British not shipped them over in vast numbers. And the people here in the UK who blast me for the US 'only' ending slavery in 1863 need to get THEIR facts straight. Slavery was illegal in pretty much every nothern state by the early 1800s, and obviously we fought a four-year war in which half a million people were killed in order to both abolish slavery for good in the US and to preserve the union. Few countries have had to pay a heavier price for its legacy of slavery than the United States, so I'd appreciate it if people would give us a break.

My absolute favorite tho is when some Brits bring up the Jim Crow laws (which were inexcusable) but make excuses for the way the British treated Catholics in northern Ireland, which was basically the same thing except they were worse off; they couldn't vote because they didn't own property. And that was not that long ago either. We're tarnished, you're tarnished.

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 19):
On a personal note, I think people who ask for reparations, are really just trying to make a quick buck. Yes, it is quite unfortunate that your ancestors were slaves, but please, don't ask for money. If you really want a thing for reparation, build a African-American History Museum, and cherish what the slaves sacrificed their lives for. Remember slaves, don't make a buck off of them.

Hey, the Nazis killed half of my family...but you don't hear me asking for reparations, because I know I won't get them. What's the point anyway? Doesn't make them any less dead.
 
tz757300
Posts: 2724
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:21 am

RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:27 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 31):
I still get the uncomfortable feeling that you think slavery is purely a past problem for the US (?and the rest of the west).

And I don't know why you are feeling that way. I can say that slavery has been non-existant in this country for plentt of years now. If that's not true, please enlighten me.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 31):
Past slavery is still a problem



Quoting Baroque (Reply 31):
It seems unfortunate if we let the current problem drift while focussing on one that has at least been stopped, if not fully resolved in terms of the resulting problems.

Umm, dont those statements ind of contradict each other?
LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting Tz757300 (Reply 33):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 31):
I still get the uncomfortable feeling that you think slavery is purely a past problem for the US (?and the rest of the west).

And I don't know why you are feeling that way. I can say that slavery has been non-existant in this country for plentt of years now. If that's not true, please enlighten me.

Take your pick from
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/world/slavery/default.stm
but
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4521921.stm
Will do for starters.

Among the links there
"mmokalee's residents are mostly male - they come mainly from Mexico, Guatemala and Haiti hoping to make enough to send money back to the families they have left behind. Most dream of returning home soon.

Thousands arrive each season - many illegally, with no knowledge of English or their rights. They are, say campaigners, vulnerable to unscrupulous contractors who treat them like slaves. In recent years, a number of cases of involuntary servitude have been prosecuted successfully in Florida."

As the BEEB points out, virtually no country is free of CURRENT slavery problems. The cockle collectors in NW England, to numerous prosecutions in Australia, the problem is world wide.

Quoting Tz757300 (Reply 33):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 31):
It seems unfortunate if we let the current problem drift while focusing on one that has at least been stopped, if not fully resolved in terms of the resulting problems.

Umm, dont those statements ind of contradict each other?

Not really, it was possible to remove some parts of the slave trade in the early 1800s by naval action. That almost certainly did not stop the practice happening by other means.

Now we have the slave traders using normal travel patterns to disguise the movement of slaves. And this time most of the putative slaves do not know they are going to be slaves until they arrive at their destinations. So never hand your passport over, you never know, you might be about to go into slavery!!

I do not think too many of the law enforcement agencies float along under the happy impression that slavery is no more. However, there needs to be more determination, especially more cooperation from those who benefit from slavery, and that (unahppily) includes most of us.
 
jafa39
Posts: 4320
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:14 pm

RE: Should A Country Be Paid Reparations For Slavery?

Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:15 am

If you do that then the people who live in Cornwall will also have to claim reparations from Denmark for the Danelaw.

African people will have to claim reparations for slavery from the Arabs who the Europeans nicked the slave trade off, the Arabs will have to claim reparations from the Poms for loss of revenue and the various African tribes will have to claim off each other for starting the slave trade.

Then, The Egyptians will have to pay reparations to the Mesopotamians and the Greeks, the Romans will have to pay every fucker in the Mediterranean. Mongolia will get a hiding for the works of Ghengis Khan and eventually, when every bugger has paid every other bugger back, the descendants of Adam will have to claim reparations from the descendants of Eve for eating that sodding apple in the first place.

So no, I don't support the idea one little bit....history was happening before black people got taken to the West Indies, it is PC nonsense to only wind the clock back to a point that suits your particular case, there is not one country on this planet that is 100% innocent if you go back far enough.....and don't even get me started on Nineveh!!!!!!!
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....

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