Dirkou
Topic Author
Posts: 372
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 2:57 am

Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:11 pm

Simple question: why no major NFL, NBA or any other major league team in Las Vegas?
 
HPLASOps
Posts: 1767
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RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:14 pm

Two main reasons:

1) Las Vegas is a population largely based on transient folk who come from other cities and bring their sports loyalties with them. You might get people to buy a few tickets, but it's hard to get the population to really "support" the team.

2) Major leagues have an irrational fear of gambling. I call it irrational because the gambling that occurs is more regulated and safer from unnecessary influence than most forms of under the table gambling that occurs elsewhere throughout the US.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
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RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:20 pm

I'd love to play in Vegas.

Signed, Packman Jones

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2775250
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:52 pm

Quoting KROC (Reply 2):
I'd love to play in Vegas.

Signed, Packman Jones

Dude, get it right. it's Pacman jones.

Sincerely,
Frogger
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:23 pm

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 3):
Dude, get it right. it's Pacman jones.

Sincerely,
Frogger

Thanks Frogger. I saw that after I posted. I was worried Q-Bert was going to come and stomp a mudhole in my ass!  Sad
 
CX747
Posts: 5576
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Mon Mar 19, 2007 8:41 pm

There are too many other things to do in Las Vegas than watch a professional sports team. Most people go to Vegas to do some gambling, enjoy the sun, lay by the pool and watch the pretty lights at night.

I've been to Vegas and it is a nice town. With that said, it is not on my top 10 list. Go see natural wonders etc.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
deltagator
Posts: 6170
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:56 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:45 pm

Hey! We were a professionally paid team.

Signed,

The early 1990s UNLV Runnin' Rebels

Quoting Dirkou (Thread starter):
Simple question: why no major NFL, NBA or any other major league team in Las Vegas?

HPLASOps has it right with the transient population though I think that might be settleing down as more folks bail on California and move to Vegas. I still think it will be a long time before one of the major 4 leagues has a team there though given the lack of facilities but more so that still hard to capture audience.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:14 am

Another issue is that compared to other U.S. cities Las Vegas has by far the highest percentage of people working nonstandard hours. That can make it difficult for many people to attend games or watch them on television.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
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RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 6):
I think that might be settleing down as more folks bail on California and move to Vegas.

Which explains why California's population is still growing  sarcastic 

Quoting PROSA (Reply 7):
Another issue is that compared to other U.S. cities Las Vegas has by far the highest percentage of people working nonstandard hours.

That is actually a very interesting evaluation that is based in a whole lot of truth
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
seb146
Posts: 13897
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RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:48 am

Actually, they do have Arena Football and East Coast Hockey League teams and an AAA baseball team as I recall. But, one reason I have heard any major league shys away from Las Vegas is because the majority of the people that would attend the games work mainly in the evening when the games are being played. The money is there to build arenas and stadiums, but the major leagues seem to think the people are not there.

GO CANUCKS!!
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
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RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 9):
AAA baseball team

They are the Dodgers AAA team.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12388
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RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:28 am

There are already enough NFL, MLB or NBA teams in each league, and they don't need to have more teams by expansion to add Las Vegas. To provide Las Vegas with a team would most probably mean a major city losing a team. Which city would you want see lose their teams in those leagues?
I would also suggest that Las Vegas didn't become a major market/city with a substantual base population until a few years ago and is facing limits on expansion due to available water and land in the area (much land in the area is owned by the US Government, including military bases) also limits their viability to be a major big 4 sports venue.
 
prosa
Posts: 5389
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2001 3:24 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:41 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 11):
There are already enough NFL, MLB or NBA teams in each league, and they don't need to have more teams by expansion to add Las Vegas. To provide Las Vegas with a team would most probably mean a major city losing a team. Which city would you want see lose their teams in those leagues?

The owners of the Sacramento Kings, who own a casino in Las Vegas, have been talking for some time about moving the team. This may be coming closer to reality after the voters in Sacramento defeated an arena proposal.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
102IAHexpress
Posts: 898
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RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:55 am

The major issue is stadium financing. All those state of the art hotel and casinos in Las Vegas were built without the help of Joe taxpayer. And the casino owners would cry foul if a stadium was built with taxpayer money, so for a stadium to be built the owner would have to provide all the financing himself, which most owners do not do.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:11 am

Quoting PROSA (Reply 12):
The owners of the Sacramento Kings, who own a casino in Las Vegas, have been talking for some time about moving the team. This may be coming closer to reality after the voters in Sacramento defeated an arena proposal.

That would be pretty shocking given that they are Sacto's only major league team and have a very solid fan base. Also, ARCO Arena is not particularly old nor is it in bad shape.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 13):
so for a stadium to be built the owner would have to provide all the financing himself, which most owners do not do.

But when they do, they benefit. Take a look at Dodger Stadium
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:33 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
They are the Dodgers AAA team.

Las Vegas 51's. Isn't this the last year they will be affiliated with the Dodgers? I could have sworn I heard they were changing their AAA team. I could be wrong though.

Quoting PROSA (Reply 12):
This may be coming closer to reality after the voters in Sacramento defeated an arena proposal.



Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):

That would be pretty shocking given that they are Sacto's only major league team and have a very solid fan base. Also, ARCO Arena is not particularly old nor is it in bad shape.

I agree. The Arco Arena is relatively new and is one of the loudest home arenas as well as still fairly state of the art. Hell, its only 19 years old.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting KROC (Reply 2):
I'd love to play in Vegas.

Signed, Packman Jones

I'll second that.

Signed,
Pete Rose

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 1):
1) Las Vegas is a population largely based on transient folk who come from other cities and bring their sports loyalties with them. You might get people to buy a few tickets, but it's hard to get the population to really "support" the team.

I think this is the main reason here. It's the same situation in Orlando. The only major league team is the Orlando Magic (NBA).
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
HPLASOps
Posts: 1767
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:13 pm

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 13):
The major issue is stadium financing. All those state of the art hotel and casinos in Las Vegas were built without the help of Joe taxpayer.

And being the largest revenue generators in the city, I think it's fair to say they don't need the help.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 13):
And the casino owners would cry foul if a stadium was built with taxpayer money

Why? Bringing a team to Vegas won't hurt the casinos any - in fact, it will probably give them more business. Besides, the casinos pay taxes, they don't benefit from the taxes; it is not up to them how the tax money is distributed.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
That would be pretty shocking given that they are Sacto's only major league team and have a very solid fan base.

That doesn't guarantee anything. The Minnesota North Stars were located in the most prolific hockey state in America, had a great, loyal fan base, and the owner still decided to bolt to Texas.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
But when they do, they benefit. Take a look at Dodger Stadium

Or to take an example from a stadium built within the last half century, SBC/AT&T/Corporatefuckingplastering.com Park or what ever it is called now in San Francisco. That park was not built with any civic assistance; it still does occasionally happen.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 13):
The major issue is stadium financing.

This is not the major issue. You have to get a team to want to come to this city before you talk of who is going to pay for for it.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
deltagator
Posts: 6170
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:56 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:10 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Which explains why California's population is still growing

Let us all bow down to the temple of knowledge that is N1102A and his vast expertise on everything.  sarcastic 

I understand that California continues to grow their population but at the same time thousands of people are leaving and moving to Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado, etc. The number entering is more than the number leaving but there are still massive amounts of people leaving California.

Your attempt at sarcastic humor has yet again fallen on deaf ears. Oh, don't you fall into the same category since you live in NOLA now? Or do you just consider yourself a transient until you find something better suited to your metropolitan lifestyle?
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:18 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 6):
I still think it will be a long time before one of the major 4 leagues has a team there though given the lack of facilities but more so that still hard to capture audience.

They have to have a basketball arena somewhere, as the NBA All-Star game is held there, though I'm not sure if it's held in UNLV's arena or a seperate arena (or is it held at a nearby prison?  wink  ).
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
SJCRRPAX
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:29 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:33 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 8):
Which explains why California's population is still growing



California is losing a ton of people. A lot of those people are retired people who sell their homes so they can have money to live in Las Vegas, and a lot of those people are younger people who will never be able to afford a home in certain parts of California. A lot of people leave the state because the state income tax is so high. A lot of people are fed up with the overcrowding. California is also gaining a lot of people, a very large percentage of immigrants first settle in California, and I won't even go into the millions of illegal immigrants that go to California. Here is something very few people know, if it wasn't for immigration the USA would be losing population. I think it would be nice to have 0% population growth. I'm just dying to find a politician who will say, I want no population growth, energy independence, nuclear power, balance budget and balance trade. Well, I guess that's too radical.
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:02 am

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 1):

2) Major leagues have an irrational fear of gambling. I call it irrational because the gambling that occurs is more regulated and safer from unnecessary influence than most forms of under the table gambling that occurs elsewhere throughout the US.

Only the NFL and MLB have an irrational fear of gambling. To the NBA and the NHL, the gambling issue isn't that big of a problem. The NBA has a WNBA team playing at the Mohegan Sun, one of their teams is owned by a casino operator, and they wouldn't have even thought about putting the recent All-Star Game in Las Vegas if they had a problem with gambling. In the NHL, you have casino advertisements along the boards in a number of cities, and the Pens were trying to get a slot license in association with the Isle of Capri (who was going to build them a new arena).

As far as sports gambling (which is the type of gambling the NFL and MLB have an issue with), that issue can be easily handled if a team in one of the four major pro sports were to put a team in Las Vegas. As it currently stands, no sports book in the State of Nevada takes any sports betting involving any NCAA event involving a Nevada college team. There's a pro sports precedence as well. When the Maloofs opened up the Palms, they had to agree not to take any NBA betting at all in their sports book (This was mainly to satisfy the NBA, as their previous casino they owned, did not have a sports book). Plus the casinos agreed not to do any bets associated with this year's NBA All-Star Game. Simply put, the Gaming Control Board could decree that if a pro team were to move (or a league were to grant an expansion franchise) to Las Vegas, none of the sports books could take any action on any game involving that team.

Could Las Vegas support a top tier pro team? Yes, but not at this time. I personally think that when (not if) Las Vegas does land a team, it will be either an NBA or an NHL team (As it would be a cold day in Hell before the NFL or MLB puts a team in Vegas). It will not be an expansion franchise either, as several teams in both leagues are rumored candidates for relocation.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 16):
I'll second that.

Signed,
Pete Rose

Last March during the 2006 LAS Meet, I was over at the Forum Shops and he was over at some sports memorabilia shop signing stuff. Would somebody tell him to get a new hairstyle.....
 
aace24
Posts: 759
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:16 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:14 am

I'm sure Charlotte wouldn't even notice if the Bobcats were gone.

Feel free to take them.
 
102IAHexpress
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:33 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 17):
Why? Bringing a team to Vegas won't hurt the casinos any - in fact, it will probably give them more business. Besides, the casinos pay taxes, they don't benefit from the taxes; it is not up to them how the tax money is distributed.

Because in the eyes of the casinos it would be unfair to give public money to construct a private stadium when no public money was given to build their private casinos; which is actually a valid point. It has nothing to do with whether they will benefit from the stadium or not, but rather with the fact that they don’t want to pay for someone else’s new construction.

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 17):
This is not the major issue. You have to get a team to want to come to this city before you talk of who is going to pay for for it.

No this is the ONLY issue. No team owner will relocate to LAS if he has to pay for the stadium with all of his money. Heck no team owner will stay in his home city if he has to pay for a new stadium with all of his money. Gambling and all that other junk are non issues, as gambling is legal in just about every state in the union.
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 21):
The NBA has a WNBA team playing at the Mohegan Sun, one of their teams is owned by a casino operator,

Nothing says sports example like a WNBA team. What time do the ponies usually run there?
 
srbmod
Posts: 15446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting KROC (Reply 24):
What time do the ponies usually run there?

I thought Rebecca Lobo had retired........  duck 
 
deltagator
Posts: 6170
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:56 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:57 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 19):
They have to have a basketball arena somewhere, as the NBA All-Star game is held there, though I'm not sure if it's held in UNLV's arena or a seperate arena

I believe they are using the Thomas and Mack Center for the All Star Game. Wait, it already happened and I didn't care (college bball for me please.) It is an ok arena but it has been there since the 1990s when UNLV had their pro sports team. It has little in the way of skyboxes and other ammenities that all the teams swear they need to afford paying the bills.

The Orleans Casino has an arena as well (Kansas beat Florida there this year in some tournament) but it is also on the smallish side. For an NBA franchise to survive they would need to build something new.

Quoting AAce24 (Reply 22):
I'm sure Charlotte wouldn't even notice if the Bobcats were gone.

Didn't they fuss a little bit, but not a lot, when they lost the Hornets?
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
aace24
Posts: 759
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:16 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:28 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 26):
Didn't they fuss a little bit, but not a lot, when they lost the Hornets?

Sure did, then they went and built a brand new arena, and convinced the NBA to come back.

Now they can't even fill the lower section....
 
KROC
Posts: 18919
Joined: Mon May 08, 2000 11:19 am

RE: Why No Las Vegas NBA Team

Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 18):
Let us all bow down to the temple of knowledge that is N1102A and his vast expertise on everything.

This can't be ignored.

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