itsjustme
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What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 9:50 pm

First it was his refusal to speak with the 9/11 Commission while under oath. I believe he said he and Vice President Cheney would be happy to "meet with those folks" but not under oath. Big of you Mr. President, thanks. And now he is refusing to allow White House officials, specifically Karl Rove and former White House Counsel Harriet Miers to give sworn testimony regarding the firings of eight U.S. attorneys. Bush has said he'll allow a bipartisan group of committee members to interview Rove, Miers and their two deputies, but not under oath and without a transcript of the proceedings. Basically he is saying he doesn't want them to be held legally accountable for any statements they make. Now why do you suppose that is? What was that Bush said he was going to bring back to the White House? Oh yes, integrity. Isn't that a hoot?  rotfl 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/21/us.attorneys.firings/index.html
 
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Aaron747
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:05 pm

Bush won't allow anything under oath because the MO in his administration has been lies, lies and more lies and nobody knows what the truth is anymore. He's not about to subject anyone to perjuring themselves.

The thing about Bush is I believe he's a man of integrity for the most part - the trouble is, he actually believes what he says and does. The larger issue is the players who comprise his administration. Bush is fiercely loyal and they know as long as they present the appearance of working toward the same aims, they will have won the trust of their boss. What has happened in the halls of the White House on behalf of those aims has been a display of anything but integrity, and Bush knows this now more than ever. But his loyalty comes first and that's why this story is repeating again and again.

I'm sure Pat Leahy's liable to blow a few arteries over this. Only one thing is for certain - nobody deserves a sworn grilling more than Karl Rove.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
mdsh00
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:31 pm

It's pretty obvious that you have something to hide if you refuse to speak under oath and without written record. But wait a few minutes for Bush fans to come in here and turn it on "liberals" and give no actual assesment of the situation.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
Falcon84
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:42 pm

i understand any president wanting to protect executive privelage, as any president has to have confidential and non-public advice on many matters, but I don't see where this is part of that process.

It looks like-again-another case of this Administration's never-ending attempt to hide everything it does from Congress and the American people. And it shows again how Congress was bereft in it's responsibilities by allowing in the "Patriot Act", a provision that gives up their Constitutional roll of approving judicial appointments. I'm glad they struck that part of the Act down, but it shows again what kind of paranoia and fear we were under right after 9/11.

If the truth is to be sought here, Mr. Bush's advisors must be held to account under oath, and with transcripts. If neither is allowed, then if there was any wrongdoing here, it will never be brought to light.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:29 am

Oh the hypocrisy. Clinton once said he would bring a stuffed animal back to the White House, BUT HE LIED. There was no fluffy toy in sight. And yet no outrage from those on the left. Typical.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
MaidensGator
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
And it shows again how Congress was bereft in it's responsibilities by allowing in the "Patriot Act", a provision that gives up their Constitutional roll of approving judicial appointments

Except that U.S. Attorneys are not judicial appointments....
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
johnboy
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:38 am

"Our long national nightmare is over. Our Constitution works; our great Republic is a government of laws and not of men. Here the people rule. " Gerald R. Ford

Perhaps we should shout this out en masse in January 2009.

Or put it above Bush's jail cell.

Either one works for me.

John
 
MDorBust
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:02 am

It should be obvious to all why he doesn't want testimony under oath.

He's afraid, and rightly so, that the dems will pick apart the testimony for the littlest contradictions, intentional or not, then fire up another libby style purgury trial.

That is of course what the dems are looking for here.

Hell, I think he should let them testity, then pull a Iran/Contra defense and suddenly "not recall" anything for the CSPAN cameras.

F'you Dems. Drop this ludicrous attempt at a circus and get back to the buisness of governing our nation.

And no, that doesn't mean cramming more pork into the current Iraq spending bill.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
mdsh00
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:11 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
It should be obvious to all why he doesn't want testimony under oath.

He's afraid, and rightly so, that the dems will pick apart the testimony for the littlest contradictions, intentional or not, then fire up another libby style purgury trial.

That is of course what the dems are looking for here.

Hell, I think he should let them testity, then pull a Iran/Contra defense and suddenly "not recall" anything for the CSPAN cameras.

F'you Dems. Drop this ludicrous attempt at a circus and get back to the buisness of governing our nation.

That was about time.

Putting your politics aside, don't you even remotely think that they don't want to speak under oath because, I don't know, illegal things have been done?? If it were reversed, I'd think you'd be clamoring for an investigation ASAP.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
ltbewr
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:14 am

To me, what President Bush and his administration is hiding now is the cover up of what happened. That is how Watergate took down President Nixon and Iran-Contra hurt President Bush - 41).
Yes, these US Attorneys do serve at the pleasure of the President, and they can dismiss them with or without cause, even for political ones, but still in reality there has to be reasonable justification not just for purely poltical redirection. It is a shame that this issue could become the biggest scandal of his administration that will be pursued by Congress rather on his lies used in going into Iraq, his post-9/11 power grabs and other mistakes.
 
MDorBust
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 8):
If it were reversed, I'd think you'd be clamoring for an investigation ASAP.

Was I clamoring...

Wait, never mind.. wasn't a member of the forum.

You'll just have to take my word for it. I didn't clamour for an investigation when the previous administration used their authority to remove federal prosecutors from office. It's not illegal. It's a power of the President.

And don't go joining the Falcon boat and assume I'm a republican. You can't "reverse" someone who doesn't belong to either party.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
j.mo
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:20 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
It should be obvious to all why he doesn't want testimony under oath.

He's afraid, and rightly so, that the dems will pick apart the testimony for the littlest contradictions, intentional or not, then fire up another libby style purgury trial.

That is of course what the dems are looking for here.

Hell, I think he should let them testity, then pull a Iran/Contra defense and suddenly "not recall" anything for the CSPAN cameras.

F'you Dems. Drop this ludicrous attempt at a circus and get back to the buisness of governing our nation.

And no, that doesn't mean cramming more pork into the current Iraq spending bill.

At what point do you people ( GWB Worshipers) sit down, have a Sierra Mist and take a fresh look at these people. I don't love either party but this administration is blatantly corrupt. So much so it's embarrassing.

JM
 
MDorBust
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:27 am

Quoting J.mo (Reply 11):
this administration is blatantly corrupt.

A GWB worshipper now, am I?

I'm sure to you that's a comparison to something horrible to you.

So now I've become the embodiment of what you consider degenerate and detestable? And for what?

Because I insist on actual crimes having being committed?

Huh...

Why do I suddenly feel a deep pity for our nation
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
cfalk
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
If the truth is to be sought here, Mr. Bush's advisors must be held to account under oath, and with transcripts. If neither is allowed, then if there was any wrongdoing here, it will never be brought to light.

IF there was any wrongdoing. IF!

As far as I know, nobody has managed to indicate the possibility that any law has been broken. How would you like to be subpeonaed if you haven't done anything wrong, but you know they want to find something - anything - to hang onto you?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
He's afraid, and rightly so, that the dems will pick apart the testimony for the littlest contradictions, intentional or not, then fire up another libby style purgury trial.

Exactly. This is a fishing expidition. While they have Rove under oath, they will ask him about all sorts of stuff completely unrelated to the Attorney issue, hoping to find some little thing to trip him up, whther it's about Iraq, 9/11, No-Child-Left-Behind, whatever. They want to simply throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks.

Quoting J.mo (Reply 11):
I don't love either party but this administration is blatantly corrupt.

I know of no clear evidence of corruption, but I will acknowledge clear evidence of incompetance, especially concerning public relations but also in the conduct of the war and many other issues.

The maddening thing is that IMHO we have no better choice. While Bush & Co seem to be incompetant boobs who seem to scurry for cover every time a liberal says, "Boo", the Democrats appear certainly far more corrupt and tolerant of corruption among their members (look at William Jefferson, D-La). Many of those who are not visibly corrupt are loons, like Nancy Pelosi.

More and more, it seems like we have on the menu a choice between the horseshit and the vomit.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
andessmf
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:20 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Thread starter):
Basically he is saying he doesn't want them to be held legally accountable for any statements they make

In other words, very similar to Libby, where I may remind you no crime was found, and no further prosecutions for the 'crime' are forthcoming.
 
MaidensGator
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:20 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):
To me, what President Bush and his administration is hiding now is the cover up of what happened. That is how Watergate took down President Nixon and Iran-Contra hurt President Bush - 41).

Not even close...

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):
Yes, these US Attorneys do serve at the pleasure of the President, and they can dismiss them with or without cause, even for political ones, but still in reality there has to be reasonable justification not just for purely poltical redirection.

Which is it? You admit the US Attorneys can be fired for political reasons, and in the SAME sentence say they can't....

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 10):
It's not illegal. It's a power of the President.

{Checkmark}

Quoting J.mo (Reply 11):
this administration is blatantly corrupt.

So corrupt that the Democrats have chosen an issue everybody admits is legal...

I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. Executive Privilege has been vigorously defended by all Presidents, no matter the party. The issue is much larger than why Bush fired eight people everyone knows he had every right to fire.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
Falcon84
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:30 am

[

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
He's afraid, and rightly so, that the dems will pick apart the testimony for the littlest contradictions, intentional or not, then fire up another libby style purgury trial.

Maybe he's afraid, MD, that something untoward did go on, and he doesn't want it on record? Ever thing of that?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
Hell, I think he should let them testity, then pull a Iran/Contra defense and suddenly "not recall" anything for the CSPAN cameras.

Which, with the lack of trust the American people have for him and his administration right now, no one will believe a thing any of them say if they do that.

Maybe, just MAYBE, the best defense is to TELL THE TRUTH? And if they have nothing to hid, MD, the Dems will end up with egg on their faice if noting untoward happened? Or, is that just too simple?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
F'you Dems. Drop this ludicrous attempt at a circus and get back to the buisness of governing our nation.

Gee, that's what Dems yelled for 8+ years when the GOP was looking for anything to try and hang President Clinton with any wild story imaginable.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 10):
And don't go joining the Falcon boat and assume I'm a republican.

Problem is, my friend, you never do anything to make anyone think otherwise. You're always the first to shrug off or apologize for anything this Administration and this President does. Why should we think anything else? You put yourself up for such accusations.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 12):
A GWB worshipper now, am I?

Again, if the shoe fits.....

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 13):
IF there was any wrongdoing. IF!

Yes: IF. That's what investigations like this are for, Charles. Duh.  Yeah sure

Damn, I thought you might be happy that I gave them at least some benefit of the doubt.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
seb146
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:40 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
F'you Dems. Drop this ludicrous attempt at a circus and get back to the buisness of governing our nation.

Isn't that what Dems were saying during Monica Lewinsky investigation? What ever bacame of that? Oh, that's right.... a president was almost removed from office for a personal indiscretion.

And we are comparing that with how many lives lost so far? 3000+ on our soil and 3000+ overseas plus civilians in another country. But no one in the current administration is allowed to testify under oath. Did that happen with the Monica debacle? No one being able to testify under oath? Hmmmmm...... Hypocracy?

GO CANUCKS!!
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
cfalk
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
Yes: IF. That's what investigations like this are for, Charles. Duh.

Is it ok for the police to do a full investigation of you if there is no accusation of a crime? The police simply arrive on your doorstep one day and say, "You are the proud recipient of a random search", and then go through your home, your business, just on the off-chance they might find something to prosecute?

Last I heard, in this country, you need a little something called probable cause to rip into someone.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
TedTAce
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Thread starter):
Bush



Quoting Itsjustme (Thread starter):
integrity



Quoting Itsjustme (Thread starter):
 rotfl 

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
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 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 


The ONLY reason I'd be EXCITED about the Dem's taking back the whitehouse (if they do) will be seeing all these puppets forced to testify under oath and the video calvacade of 'I'll invoke my 5th ammendment rights' quotes to follow.

The Bush Administration is BEGGING for the magnifying glass treatment like an ant in the eyes of a 4 year old ON a UV 15+ day.
This space intentionally left blank
 
MDorBust
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:50 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
Ever thing of that?

Perhaps the POTUS has done something illegal that may eventually come out.

But this is not how it needs to be done.

How would you like it if the police departments around the US started calling in people off the street, putting them under oath and grilling them to see if they admit to something? Sounds kinda creepy and Big Brotherish doesn't it?

So why are we rooting for Congress to do just that?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
Gee, that's what Dems yelled for 8+ years when the GOP was looking for anything to try and hang President Clinton with any wild story imaginable.



Quoting Seb146 (Reply 17):
Isn't that what Dems were saying during Monica Lewinsky investigation?

I was not a fan of the Repubs actions during those years either.

But as I said, I wasn't a member of this forum at that time so I can't prove that to you.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
Why should we think anything else?

Perhaps you should read more threads then. Imigration, social spending, lack of domestic policy... etc. The Bush admin is not my friend.

[Edited 2007-03-22 03:51:54]
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
andessmf
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:56 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
the Dems will end up with egg on their faice if noting untoward happened?

Did any Dems end up with egg on their face from the Plame 'scandal'.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 18):

Last I heard, in this country, you need a little something called probable cause to rip into someone.

Really? How do you explain TravelGate? WhiteWater? Vince Foster? Ron Brown? Should I go on? Pot---> Kettle ---> Black.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 20):
How would you like it if the police departments around the US started calling in people off the street, putting them under oath and grilling them to see if they admit to something?

Sounds like the Patriot Act.

Oh, wait.....

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 20):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 16):
Why should we think anything else?

Perhaps you should read more threads then. Imigration, social spending, lack of domestic policy... etc. The Bush admin is not my friend.

Fair enough, then. I will accept what you say on that regard. Unfortunately, we can't read every thread, and I will take you at your word on that, as far as other policy goes. Fair enough?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
andessmf
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:02 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 22):
Really? How do you explain TravelGate? WhiteWater? Vince Foster? Ron Brown? Should I go on? Pot---> Kettle ---> Black.

Last I remember, several people went to jail for these, except for Ron Brown, that's just another kooky conspiracy theory.
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:05 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 4):
Oh the hypocrisy. Clinton once said he would bring a stuffed animal back to the White House, BUT HE LIED. There was no fluffy toy in sight. And yet no outrage from those on the left. Typical.

Wow, I think we have new A'Net record. It only took 4 replies to mention the C name in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with Clinton. If you can't stay on topic, Dave, please don't waste our time with your mundane ramblings.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 15):
The issue is much larger than why Bush fired eight people everyone knows he had every right to fire.

Nobody is disputing the fact that it's Bush's right to fire the 8 U.S. attorneys. It's been common practice for PotUS to replace all 90+ US Attorneys but it's normally done when the new administration takes office, not midterm. What's even more suspicious is several of the 8 attorneys who were fired had not only received excellent performance reviews but some were in the middle of investigating alleged political corruption.
 
itsjustme
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 20):
Sounds kinda creepy and Big Brotherish doesn't it?

Why, yes it does! Just as "creepy and Big Brotherish" as having the Guv read my emails, listen to my phone calls, look over my financial records, etc...when they're not investigating a crime. Yet the Bush lovers say, "Hey, if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't be concerned". Why doesn't the same apply to Rove, Miers, their deputies, etc? If they have nothing to hide, they shouldn't be concerned about testifying under oath, right?
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:29 am

Dems: "Mom! the Reps are doing illegal shit again!"

Reps: "But...but...but... The Dems did hanky-panky shit like that 8 years ago and you did nothing. No fair!"

Mom (Congress): "Now listen, Reps. We dealt with the Dems when they fucked up. If you did illegal shit now, then we'll have to deal with it, too. Now shut the fuck up and tell me what you've done wrong this time."
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:52 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 25):
Why, yes it does! Just as "creepy and Big Brotherish" as having the Guv read my emails, listen to my phone calls, look over my financial records, etc...when they're not investigating a crime. Yet the Bush lovers say, "Hey, if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't be concerned". Why doesn't the same apply to Rove, Miers, their deputies, etc? If they have nothing to hide, they shouldn't be concerned about testifying under oath, right?

Hey, why is it exactly that the Dem majority hasn't repealled the Patriot Act yet?

Surely, if you're going to tag it as a Republican intrusion of rights someone is going to have to explain why the Dems are getting a pass for letting it continue to exist.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:55 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 27):

Hey, why is it exactly that the Dem majority hasn't repealled the Patriot Act yet?

Surely, if you're going to tag it as a Republican intrusion of rights someone is going to have to explain why the Dems are getting a pass for letting it continue to exist.

Hey, I haven't tagged it as anything other than an intrusion of rights, period. You're the one who titled the Dems actions for wanting testimony under oath when no crime is being investigated as being "Big Brotherish". You wanna talk Big Brothrish? I've never committed a crime in my life. To the contrary. I've spent a good portion of my life fighting crime. Yet from recent reports about the FBI's abuse of power, my emails, telephone calls, and financial records are apparently fair game for them to monitor.

As to why the Dems are letting it continue I can only speculate that it's because they're plate is pretty full right now with trying to clean up other messes the Bush Administration has created. I don't fault them in the least for giving priority to finding a way out of the Iraq mess that Bush got us into over our right to privacy being infringed upon. If it means getting our men and women back from Iraq sooner than later, sure, let the Patriot Act stand for a while longer.
 
baroque
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:04 pm

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 1):
The thing about Bush is I believe he's a man of integrity for the most part - the trouble is, he actually believes what he says and does. The larger issue is the players who comprise his administration. Bush is fiercely loyal and they know as long as they present the appearance of working toward the same aims, they will have won the trust of their boss.

Which describes a setting for disaster in terms of actually administering a country I would think. A leader has to show critical thinking to have half a chance to be successful.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
I'm glad they struck that part of the Act down, but it shows again what kind of paranoia and fear we were under right after 9/11.

It seems from this distance that the current goings on are more normal, and it was the post Sept 11 2001 era that was so strange - and wrong come to that. So criticise the Dems, but criticise them for their pusillanimous attitudes in late 2001 and 2002. OK they were going to be swamped by the Rep majorities anyway, but a great many of them would be in a better condition now if their dissent from so many bad to loony measures had been registered.

It seems to me that now some sort of normality is being restored the Reps are having difficulty in coping with reality. That comes of having lived in some sort of fantasy land for too long.
 
B777-700
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:18 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
F'you Dems. Drop this ludicrous attempt at a circus and get back to the buisness of governing our nation

Classy.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 10):
You'll just have to take my word for it. I didn't clamour for an investigation when the previous administration used their authority to remove federal prosecutors from office.

Rovian twisting of facts. What Clinton did was nothing different than what many other president have done. Firing select USA's in the middle of a term who arent "loyal Bushies" and just happen to be in the middle of corruption investigations (you know, administering blind justice; ie: doing their jobs) is unprecedented.

This talking point has been destroyed over and over...and yet you still keep saying it. Why?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 10):
And don't go joining the Falcon boat and assume I'm a republican.

I don't care what you're registered as. Anyone who can't see this for what it is I believe has serious comprehension problems.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 12):
A GWB worshipper now, am I?

I'm sure to you that's a comparison to something horrible to you

Yes, you are. Horrible? No. Sad? Yes. I believe people like you are what is destroying this country, and helping our enemies.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 12):
Why do I suddenly feel a deep pity for our nation

Well, it's certainly not a sudden epiphany of conscience. The majority of the country and the world has felt pity for our nation since Bush was reelected, and possibly before.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 13):
How would you like to be subpeonaed if you haven't done anything wrong,

I would like to use the line the right used when the NSA wire taps were such a big deal: "If you're not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about.

If they're innocent, then nothing will happen.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 13):
While they have Rove under oath, they will ask him about all sorts of stuff completely unrelated to the Attorney issue, hoping to find some little thing to trip him up, whther it's about Iraq, 9/11, No-Child-Left-Behind, whatever. They want to simply throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks.

Gee, that's unheard of!  Yeah sure

And to be honest, I wouldn't care if they do. Rove is a scumbag who deserves nothing but misery. The sooner he get sentenced to a Federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison, the better off this country will be.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 13):
The maddening thing is that IMHO we have no better choice. While Bush & Co seem to be incompetant boobs who seem to scurry for cover every time a liberal says, "Boo", the Democrats appear certainly far more corrupt and tolerant of corruption among their members (look at William Jefferson, D-La). Many of those who are not visibly corrupt are loons, like Nancy Pelosi.

 redflag  Deflection. We're not talking about Jefferson, Pelosi, any other supposed Dems corruption, or your opinions of them. Stay on topic.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 27):
Hey, why is it exactly that the Dem majority hasn't repealled the Patriot Act yet?

See how fast that part about the Attorney General appointing USA's without congressional approval was taken away?
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:52 pm

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 30):
Rovian twisting of facts.

Ah so now I'm Rovian too.

A Rovian GWB worshipper is it?

And people wonder why actual political discourse has become increasingly irrelevant and displaced by hate politics.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 30):
What Clinton did was nothing different than what many other president have done.

That's funny. Somehow it can't be politically motivated when Clinton does it, but it's all the evil machinations of the Republican machine when Bush does. That's funny that you mention corruption investigations at the time of the firings.... Mr. Rostenkowski, I'm lookiing at you.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 30):
I believe people like you are what is destroying this country, and helping our enemies.

WTF?

I am destroying our nation and helping our enemies?

Holy batshit, you've gone nuts.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 30):
If they're innocent, then nothing will happen.

You do realize the difference between passive surveillance and investigative detention right?

Don't worry, if you don't the Constitution still does.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 30):
See how fast that part about the Attorney General appointing USA's without congressional approval was taken away?

Uh, yeah... because that's clearly what itsjustme was talking about...
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
Ah so now I'm Rovian too.

I didn't say YOU were. I was saying that talking point was. But I can tell by how defensive your being that all these accusations are striking a chord.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
A Rovian GWB worshipper is it?

If it walks like a duck...

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
And people wonder why actual political discourse has become increasingly irrelevant and displaced by hate politics.

Get off your high horse. I find the irony of that statement breathtaking from someone who actually posted the following...

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
F'you Dems.

 Yeah sure

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
That's funny. Somehow it can't be politically motivated when Clinton does it, but it's all the evil machinations of the Republican machine when Bush does.

Once again you ignore the obvious. What Clinton did, let go all of the USA's at a beginning of his term, is nothing out of the ordinary. Many presidents have done this. Bush has done it this way The only reason this was even brought up as a comparison was for the right wing media to give it's lemmings something to say.

There's no comparison. I cannot comprehend how you can't see the difference.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
I am destroying our nation and helping our enemies?

People like you, yes. You claim to love America, but hate anyone who does not align politically with this administration. That weakens our image and gives comfort to our enemies.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
Holy batshit, you've gone nuts.

No more so than say...I dont know...the vice president.  Yeah sure

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
Uh, yeah... because that's clearly what itsjustme was talking about...

You completely missed my point. Congrats.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:31 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 25):
Why doesn't the same apply to Rove, Miers, their deputies, etc? If they have nothing to hide, they shouldn't be concerned about testifying under oath, right?

They have turned over approx 22000 documents. If the DEMS get them into to testify under oath , a conflict of even a date something was said could be used to incriminate. This is a such a obvious attempt to pin the administration into a perjury offence that its ridiculous.

The DEMS want another VietNam complete with Watergate scandal, they are doing all possible to have history repeat it self for political gain. This is about legacy , DEMS got us into Vietnam , President Nixon is the face of the disaster. DEMS voted for the war in Iraq ... now they want to shed the burden and burn the President.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 12):
Why do I suddenly feel a deep pity for our nation

 checkmark 
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
B777-700
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:09 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
If the DEMS get them into to testify under oath , a conflict of even a date something was said could be used to incriminate

Don't be ridiculous.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
DEMS voted for the war in Iraq ... now they want to shed the burden and burn the President.

 rotfl 

This issues with the USA's has nothing to do with anything you just said. Stay on topic.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
MDorBust
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 32):
But I can tell by how defensive your being that all these accusations are striking a chord.

Always a failed premise.

If, by your theory, a person who became defensive was guilty of the charge leveled at them, then hiring a defense attorney would be an admission of guilt. Definately an interesting change to the legal proceedings.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 32):
Get off your high horse. I find the irony of that statement breathtaking from someone who actually posted the following...

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
F'you Dems.

If you bother to read the whole statement it was clearly directed at the democrat majority in congress.

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 32):
People like you, yes. You claim to love America, but hate anyone who does not align politically with this administration.

Where the hell do you come up with this crap?

Falcon, do you think I hate you?

N1120A, do you think I hate you?

Gavin?

Wait a second, I don't align myself with this administraion. A case of self loathing then?

This has become patently absurd.



This has become a perfect example of why I feel pity for this nation. For the heinous crime of insisting that an actual crime have been committed before the mob is unleashed, I am now the person on trial in this thread, and even now being called everything short of a traitor to the nation. This is pathetic.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
B777-700
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:14 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 35):
If, by your theory, a person who became defensive was guilty of the charge leveled at them, then hiring a defense attorney would be an admission of guilt. Definately an interesting change to the legal proceedings.

But we're not talking about that, are we?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 35):
If you bother to read the whole statement it was clearly directed at the democrat majority in congress.

and?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 35):
This has become a perfect example of why I feel pity for this nation. For the heinous crime of insisting that an actual crime have been committed before the mob is unleashed, I am now the person on trial in this thread, and even now being called everything short of a traitor to the nation. This is pathetic.

Gee whiz, now you must know what Clinton feels like!...lol
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
MDorBust
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:56 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 36):
Gee whiz, now you must know what Clinton feels like!...lol



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 20):


Quote:
Seb146 (Reply 17):
Isn't that what Dems were saying during Monica Lewinsky investigation?

I was not a fan of the Repubs actions during those years either.

But as I said, I wasn't a member of this forum at that time so I can't prove that to you.

You don't even bother to read do you?

But let's not overlook the absurdity of what you just did. You just attacked and demonized a person you clearly know absolutely nothing about in order to get a twisted sort of revenge for a series of actions long past that I didn't even support. And that is funny to you?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
B777-700
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 37):
Quoting B777-700 (Reply 36):
Gee whiz, now you must know what Clinton feels like!...lol



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 20):


Quote:
Seb146 (Reply 17):
Isn't that what Dems were saying during Monica Lewinsky investigation?

I was not a fan of the Repubs actions during those years either.

But as I said, I wasn't a member of this forum at that time so I can't prove that to you.

You don't even bother to read do you?

But let's not overlook the absurdity of what you just did. You just attacked and demonized a person you clearly know absolutely nothing about in order to get a twisted sort of revenge for a series of actions long past that I didn't even support.

You've given me no reason to think otherwise.

And yes, it's funny.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 38):
You've given me no reason to think otherwise.

So is it a condition of proper posting, in your opinion, is that a person must state in every thread their entire political standing?

As a counter though, you've not provided anywhere in this thread a reason for us to think that you are anything but a child raping pedophile. By your logic, it is safe for us to assume that you are until such time as you can prove otherwise. Don't bother defending yourself. By your logic, defending yourself will only mean that we have touched upon the truth.

So go ahead, keep believing that I am a lock step lackey of the Bush administration and I will keep believing that you are a child raping pedophile.

Or, we could let logic prevail.

It's your choice.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
nosedive
Posts: 2176
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
hate politics



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
F'you Dems

way to lead by example...
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 34):
Don't be ridiculous.

Oh really , read up on the Scooter Libby trial. He never actualy lied , he only stated who he remebered hearing it from and it was different from another statement at another time. He should have been more careful , but I assume he did not think it was a big deal anyway because she was not covert and no law was broken.. It did not matter to the Dems , they hung him anyway. See,, dont think they will not hang for any small irregularity.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
767Lover
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:17 am

My feeling is that if there was nothing to hide, being under oath or recorded should not matter.

I have to admit I haven't read up on this issue enough to really know if there was anywrongdoing in firing the 8, but it seems that there should be justification in looking into it.
 
AGM100
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:11 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 42):
My feeling is that if there was nothing to hide, being under oath or recorded should not matter.

The way I look at is like this... Could you go testify under oath about something you talked about or sent emails about in 2005 ? Sure you may be able to get the facts lined up , but could you remember every person or detail that you talked about? Especially in the climate of a judiciary committee who is looking for any possible reason to put the wood to you.

But that is not why they will not testify under oath. This has more to do with Presidential executive powers than anything. Maybe it would not be a bad Idea for the President to give in on this... set the precedence .. especially in light of a possible Clinton Presidency.

Pretty tough situation indeed.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:26 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 24):
Wow, I think we have new A'Net record. It only took 4 replies to mention the C name in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with Clinton. If you can't stay on topic, Dave, please don't waste our time with your mundane ramblings.

 laughing  Please read my comment again. It was a joke. I was being sarcastic as in these threads Clinton is sure to come up as a....yeah, but Clinton did so and so. I'm with you on this one, trust me.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 33):
The DEMS want another VietNam complete with Watergate scandal, they are doing all possible to have history repeat it self for political gain. This is about legacy , DEMS got us into Vietnam , President Nixon is the face of the disaster. DEMS voted for the war in Iraq ... now they want to shed the burden and burn the President.

Yes. Poor President Bush. He has nothing to do with the situation we're in. It's all the Dem's fault. Bastards.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 39):

FWIW (not to sound like a love fest either) I think you're a damn good American.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
itsjustme
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:43 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 43):
The way I look at is like this... Could you go testify under oath about something you talked about or sent emails about in 2005 ? Sure you may be able to get the facts lined up , but could you remember every person or detail that you talked about? Especially in the climate of a judiciary committee who is looking for any possible reason to put the wood to you.

You're going to have to do better than this. In a nutshell, the answer to your question is not only "yes" but its not unheard of for a good portion of civil and even some criminal trials to take years to get to a courtroom. I've testified under oath in homicide cases that were 2-3 years old. You want to talk about having the wood put to you, try testifying about a murder you investigated 3 years ago while being grilled by Geoffrey Fieger.

Any written record the committee has, those being required to testify under oath will have access to as well. Just in case their memory gets clouded and they forget writing things like "he's not a loyal Bushie", the committee will be happy to provide the documentation to help refresh their memory. Also, when testifying, you always have the option of saying "I don't know" or "I don't remember".
 
MaidensGator
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:00 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 45):
You're going to have to do better than this. In a nutshell, the answer to your question is not only "yes" but its not unheard of for a good portion of civil and even some criminal trials to take years to get to a courtroom.

 checkmark 
When you're trying to catch a witness lying, it really only matters if it's an obvious lie, and not just poor memory.

You are asked if you've ever been arrested. You say no, even though you were handcuffed and booked for DUI in 1995. That's a lie.

You are asked if you've ever been arrested. You say yes, for DUI, in 1994. That's probably an honest mistake.

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 45):
the committee will be happy to provide the documentation to help refresh their memory

I've been at many depositions of nurses in malpractice cases. They'll acknowledge writing in the medical record two or three years ago. But they rarely, if ever, specifically remember the patient or doing what the record says was done....
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
AGM100
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:13 pm

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 44):
Yes. Poor President Bush. He has nothing to do with the situation we're in. It's all the Dem's fault. Bastards.

Not all the DEMS fault , no way. But the effort to take down the administration now has alot to do with politics. The DEMS are hard up with their voters regarding the war , so they are working a different angle to battle the administration.

The President according to what I have read had every right to dismiss the attorneys ..even for political reasons. Now if they find out that justice process was obstructed that is a different thing. The article I read in the NY Post today did state that "their was not the appearance of obstruction of any on going cases" . Leahy / Shumar are claiming that their is but that is to be expected Of course their claims are prior to any hearings or review..just here-say to some extent. The DEMS are just throwing stuff on the wall and hoping. This will be bad for the administration , there is no end to the ammount of "evidence " that can keep coming out. Much like the Libby case , it was a clear case of move the shell . The Prosecutter knew Armatage gave up the name , but he still brought witneses in to testify about things that happened during many conversations. At least Libby tried to testify , he could have just said .. I dont recall.... hell he should have hired the Rose law firm.

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 45):
try testifying about a murder you investigated 3 years ago while being grilled by Geoffrey Fieger.

You definatly have me their , I see your point. But that is a murder ,, this is a week obstruction of justice case at best .
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
disruptivehair
Posts: 565
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RE: What Are You Hiding Now, Mr. President?

Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:40 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
F'you Dems. Drop this ludicrous attempt at a circus and get back to the buisness of governing our nation.

Like the Republicans listened to what the American people wanted when they impeached the president for lying about a blow job? Get real. If any president in my lifetime has deserved impeachment and imprisonment more than Bush, I can't think of him.  duck 

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
And people wonder why actual political discourse has become increasingly irrelevant and displaced by hate politics.

Uh....you said:

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
F'you Dems. Drop this ludicrous attempt at a circus and get back to the buisness of governing our nation.

That's pretty hateful.

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