RichardPrice
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Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:24 pm

Iranian forces have captured and are holding 15 British Navy personel after the Royal Navy carried out a routine boarding and search procedure on a ship in the Arabian Gulkf suspected of smuggling cars.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6484279.stm
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:32 pm

Update -

Quote:

The Ministry of Defence said: "The group boarding party had completed a successful inspection of a merchant ship when they and their two boats were surrounded and escorted by Iranian vessels into Iranian territorial waters.

This could get ugly, the Iranians had no authority here.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:40 pm

Well done Iran, just when you should be seeking to ease tensions between yourselves and the West. Well I hope that it passes off peacefully, it they were indeed in Iraqi waters then the Iranians had no authority to do what they did, however time will tell as the BBC is a very biased news source.


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:46 pm

Oh yikes...more trouble with the Iranians.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 2):
however time will tell as the BBC is a very biased news source.

I've noticed this too but usually it's in regards to their coverage of stories in the USA. I haven't detected a pro- or anti-Iranian bias but to be fair I haven't been looking for one either.
 
Dougloid
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:08 pm

We've been telling everyone for years who'll listen that they're a bunch of loose cannons, ever since they took our embassy (still not returned) and our people. I am quite sure that this will bring out Il Duce's (oops I meant Ahmaneedashavebad) apologists. Hell, I'm sure they'll blame this on the Jews and the Americans too.

The appropriate response would be to go into their embassy, select fifteen people at random and clap them in irons.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:56 pm

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 4):
We've been telling everyone for years who'll listen that they're a bunch of loose cannons, ever since they took our embassy (still not returned) and our people. I am quite sure that this will bring out Il Duce's (oops I meant Ahmaneedashavebad) apologists. Hell, I'm sure they'll blame this on the Jews and the Americans too.

I think the Iranians were mad at us in 1979 both for what we and the British did to them in the 1950s, and for allowing the Shah into the United States for medical treatment. I'm not making excuses for them; I'm just sharing what I remember.

Quote:

The appropriate response would be to go into their embassy, select fifteen people at random and clap them in irons.

That would make us worse than them.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 9:59 pm

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 3):
I've noticed this too but usually it's in regards to their coverage of stories in the USA. I haven't detected a pro- or anti-Iranian bias but to be fair I haven't been looking for one either.

I think it's more that they are highly bias towards the government, ala "Blair Broadcasting Centre".

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 4):
The appropriate response would be to go into their embassy, select fifteen people at random and clap them in irons

Then you would be as bad as they are; it would only serve to escalate matters and give them the justification they need for holding our own men in-definately.


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:08 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 6):
I think it's more that they are highly bias towards the government, ala "Blair Broadcasting Centre".

It seemed like the Beeb was really toeing the line back when the David Kelly thing went down, but I haven't detected any special treatment lately.
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:14 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 6):

I think it's more that they are highly bias towards the government, ala "Blair Broadcasting Centre".

Actually if you watch the BBCs Polticial Correspondant Nick Robinsons pieces, he is most definitely against the Blair government - its blatant and obvious in 90% of his broadcasts.
 
Pyrex
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:17 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Thread starter):
routine boarding and search procedure on a ship

I know that for british sailors boarding ships is a routine (goes all the way back to Francis Drake and pals  stirthepot  ) but what were they doing there in the first place? Don't they control the country, couldn't they have checked it once it arrived on port / before it left?
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 8):
Actually if you watch the BBCs Polticial Correspondant Nick Robinsons pieces, he is most definitely against the Blair government - its blatant and obvious in 90% of his broadcasts.

To be fair, I am stereotyping - I gave up watching the BBC a year ago because I got fed up with their take on the news - so since then I have only been going on the musings of family and friends who still watch it. Actually, there is a lot to be said for not having a TV anymore!  silly 


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:26 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 10):
To be fair, I am stereotyping - I gave up watching the BBC a year ago because I got fed up with their take on the news - so since then I have only been going on the musings of family and friends who still watch it. Actually, there is a lot to be said for not having a TV anymore!

Do they still pester you for your license fees, or do you not live in the UK anymore?
 
keesje
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:37 pm

probably in 2017 unconfirmed sources will leak they were actually in Iranian waters & much more was going on at the time..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:38 pm

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 11):
Do they still pester you for your license fees, or do you not live in the UK anymore?

I still live in the UK, and yes they do! I have sent them three letters back, stating that I don't have a TV and therefore don't really want to pay a hundred and something quid for a license - but they just don't seem to think that people can function without a haunted fish tank to stare at. I have a radio, a computer, and an internet connection; that's all I need Big grin


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:52 pm

english.aljazeera and Khaleej Times and Le Liberation all three simply quote "UK Ministry of Defence officials" while IRNA the Iranian News Agency does NOT yet have anything.
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:56 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 13):
I still live in the UK, and yes they do! I have sent them three letters back, stating that I don't have a TV and therefore don't really want to pay a hundred and something quid for a license - but they just don't seem to think that people can function without a haunted fish tank to stare at. I have a radio, a computer, and an internet connection; that's all I need

I thought as much; we know a couple who don't have a TV and the license fee people have been chasing them for about a decade; they've never left them alone.  banghead  I can't be all high and mighty tho; we have a big telly WITH Sky. Ace!  bigthumbsup 
 
Dougloid
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Fri Mar 23, 2007 11:19 pm

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 5):
That would make us worse than them.



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 6):
Then you would be as bad as they are; it would only serve to escalate matters and give them the justification they need for holding our own men in-definately.

How so? Do you seriously think that pussyfooting around the Iranians after they've gone and kidnaped your sailors by force of arms is doing them any justice? All you'd be doing is emboldening the bastards.

Real estate on the moral high ground can get mighty expensive.

It's also a good way to jack the price of oil if you think you're not getting paid enough.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/03/23/ap3545801.html

[Edited 2007-03-23 16:33:54]
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:17 am

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 16):
pussyfooting around the Iranians

well, it possibly just is some gross misunderstanding, to be settled within a few hours  scratchchin 
and not a reason to rush decisions
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 17):
well, it possibly just is some gross misunderstanding, to be settled within a few hours
and not a reason to rush decisions

I dunno...the Iranians seem to like saving face and I don't think they'll just say "Oh, my bad" and let them go.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:29 am

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 18):
seem to like saving face and I don't think they'll just say "Oh, my bad" and let them go.

BOTH possibly will "find out" that there were faulty maps, causing a misunderstanding. For instance if at least one of the maps has the "stamp" "printed in the USA" on it, the matter will be clear and settled  duck 
 
cedars747
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 17):
well, it possibly just is some gross misunderstanding, to be settled within a few hours
and not a reason to rush decisions

You made me remember the Iran hostage crisis when Carter approved an ill-fated secret rescue mission, Operation Eagle Claw. On the night of April 24, 1980, as the first part of the operation, a number of C-130 transport airplanes met up with eight RH-53 helicopters at an airstrip in the Great Salt Desert of Eastern Iran, near Tabas. Two helicopters broke down in a sandstorm and a third one was damaged on landing. The mission was aborted, but as the aircraft took off again one helicopter clipped a C-130 and crashed, killing eight U.S. servicemen and injuring several more. In Iran, Khomeini's prestige skyrocketed as he credited divine intervention on behalf of Islam for the mission's failure


Alex!!!
Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !Jeg har en lidenskap for luftfart!j'ai
 
halls120
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:51 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 9):
I know that for british sailors boarding ships is a routine (goes all the way back to Francis Drake and pals ) but what were they doing there in the first place? Don't they control the country, couldn't they have checked it once it arrived on port / before it left?

Under long settled international law, warships of one country can board ships of another country when those ships are in the territorial waters of a coastal state (in this case, Iraq), and the warship has been granted permission by coastal state (Iraq) to conduct the boarding.

Even if it was a case of disputed waters - which I doubt the British would have been so careless as to conduct the boarding in those waters - Iran's response was wholly outside of the norms and practice of international law.

If they have a beef with the UK boarding ships in waters they claim are their waters, the correct response would have been to file a diplomatic protest, or take the case to ITLOS. Forcibly detaining the British sailors is just more evidence of the lawless nature of the current Iranian government.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
GDB
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:26 am

Could get nasty, then again, just maybe the Iranians striking an attitude.
If they ARE supporting insurgents in Iraq, they'll not want this to be uncovered by a search of a vessel either.

PlymSpotter, please tell us how the report linked here is biased?
And which way? You do know that the BBC got equally attacked in the 2003 Iraq war by the extreme factions on BOTH the pro and anti war opinions?
Or maybe you don't, Blair Broadcasting Centre indeed, (translation - I've no idea what I'm on about, no context or history to back up what I'm saying, in fact I see myself as so above the rest, I KNOW I'm being deliberatly lied to by some vast government conspiracy, though I've no proof of this at all).
 
Banco
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 22):
You do know that the BBC got equally attacked in the 2003 Iraq war by the extreme factions on BOTH the pro and anti war opinions?

It always does. Successive governments always complain they are being biased against, successive oppositions do the same. Americans claim it's anti-American, most of the rest of the world complains that it's too pro-American.

As for the whole David Kelly thing, bearing in mind that subsequent events bore out that the BBC was in fact entirely correct, beating them with that stick is pretty pointless.

No, it's not perfect, far from it. But it's the only broadcasting organisation that tries to be.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
dc863
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:31 am

I would demand an immediate unconditional release of the marines. As for the Rev Guards we captured well that's a different story and they won't be released.
The Royal Marines were searching a ship something they were internationally mandated to do.
The Rev Guards captured in Iraq were their to incite, and spread violence.
 
GDB
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:52 am

Indeed Banco, the way that Labour (old Labour, moderate socalist) PM Harold Wilson raged about the BBC, and how right wing Tory PM Margaret Thatcher did the same 20 years later, is striking.

And anyone who saw Blair's then Press Secretary, Alistair Campbell and his ranting performance, after he demanded to be let into the Channel 4 live news broadcast, in June 2003, could be in little doubt that he was fearful of the BBC doing what it's Royal Charter demands it does.
He looked like a man on the edge of a nervous breakdown, in the Basil Fawlty style.
(Maybe it's on You Tube somewhere).
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:53 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 22):
PlymSpotter, please tell us how the report linked here is biased?
And which way? You do know that the BBC got equally attacked in the 2003 Iraq war by the extreme factions on BOTH the pro and anti war opinions?
Or maybe you don't, Blair Broadcasting Centre indeed, (translation - I've no idea what I'm on about, no context or history to back up what I'm saying, in fact I see myself as so above the rest, I KNOW I'm being deliberatly lied to by some vast government conspiracy, though I've no proof of this at all).

I did not specify that this exact report was bias, I was referring to it in general and more as the organisation used to be. The BBC may be autonomous, but until the beginning of this year is was controlled by a Board of Governors who were installed upon the advice of the Government, albeit through the guise and blessing of the Head of State, so forgive me for thinking that it was entirely independent until then. The changes which came about under the new Charter and lead to the BBC Trust being formed are far better.


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
CaptOveur
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 3):
Oh yikes...more trouble with the Iranians.

They haven't begun to cause trouble.

Quoting Disruptivehair (Reply 18):
I dunno...the Iranians seem to like saving face and I don't think they'll just say "Oh, my bad" and let them go.

I doubt that. I have little doubt the Iranians are looking for a fight. They want the US and the allies to invade so they can have their little war. Wars are like a lot of things: it takes 2 to tango.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 17):
pussyfooting around the Iranians

well, it possibly just is some gross misunderstanding, to be settled within a few hours scratchchin
and not a reason to rush decisions

Remember the German tourist, who strayed into Iranian waters during a fishing trip in the Gulf last year? He just got released a few weeks ago after having spent almost one year in Iranian prison for illegal border crossing. The real reason why they kept him so long was that the Iranian government tried to use him as a hostage to force the German government to release a convicted terrorist murderer from German jail (he got sentenced for life for his involvement in the killing of exile-Iranian oposition members in Berlin in the 1980s).

Jan

[Edited 2007-03-23 19:07:27]
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
GDB
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:05 am

PymSpotter, just because the BBC has had links to government, does not mean it has towed any kind of line, as we know from the examples of the two ex Prime Minister's I cited.
And countless other examples, now I can think of one time they backed down, in not showing Peter Watkins drama-doc 'The War Game' in 1965-about the effects of a nuclear attack on the UK.
But, 20 years later, when the whole nuclear debate was much stronger, they made and showed the updated and far more shocking film 'Threads', on the same subject.
With no objections. (The War Game was finally shown too).

Again, show us a blatent example of bias.
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 2:39 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 12):
probably in 2017 unconfirmed sources will leak they were actually in Iranian waters & much more was going on at the time..

Yeah! A post with conspiracy speculations with no ties to known facts!

Or for that matter, could it be that Iran was trying to protect arms being shipped to Iraq?  stirthepot 
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
TheCol
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 12):

Doubtful. Iran has the right to disclose any facts pertaining to an alleged illegal operation in their territory. At this point and time, Iran isn't claiming anything other than a border violation.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 30):
Or for that matter, could it be that Iran was trying to protect arms being shipped to Iraq?

I'd say this would be more likely. British Forces must have come across something that Iran didn't want them to see or people that Iran didn't want them to talk too.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:01 am

What a sorry state we are now in.

15 sailors are captured by Iranians, whilst a 4500 ton frigate bristling with armament and its own armed helicopter looks on.

In the past Royal Navy commanders have been court martialled and hung for less.

Yes I'm sure the ships captain will say he couldn't intervene without MOD approval, but what happened to honour ?

The man should do the decent thing and resign immediately.
 
halls120
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 32):
What a sorry state we are now in.

15 sailors are captured by Iranians, whilst a 4500 ton frigate bristling with armament and its own armed helicopter looks on.

In the past Royal Navy commanders have been court martialled and hung for less.

Yes I'm sure the ships captain will say he couldn't intervene without MOD approval, but what happened to honour ?

The man should do the decent thing and resign immediately.

I wouldn't be so quick to condemn. Unless the Rules of Engagement allowed him to take the necessary action to resist, and he failed to do so, the fault is just much with his chain of command for putting him in a no-win position.

That said, my guess is that he will be quietly relieved of command once the dust settles.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
GDB
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 4:56 am

sure the Frigate and it's Lynx helicopters could charge in-though it's notable that the local US Navy commander has commented that the RN did the right thing.
Going right in, with only a partial idea of what is going on, could have had bloody consequences, we could be talking of 15 dead sailors by now.
In any case, it seems the Frigate was some distance from the incident, though I'd question whether one of it's 2 Lynx helicopters was above the scene of the action.

The RN is not unused to this part of the world, since 1980-on outbreak of the Iran-Iraq war, the navy maintains a permannent patrol in the area. This increased markedly and included the waterway in question, in both 1991 and 2003.
Currently, the operations the RN is involved in is covered by a UN mandate, which might have meant very restrictive Rules Of Engagement, possibly affecting the decision making of the commander on the spot.

No doubt we'll hear about 'forces too weak to respond', 'Blair betraying the forces', 'overstretch' etc.
But, in 1968, North Korea seized a USN intelligence gathering vessel, the USN was then, is now, by far the world's most powerful navy. DPRK may have returned the crew, but the 'spyship' as they call it, is still on display for propagander purposes.

Of course, if this situation escalates further, harm comes to the sailors, we would be in a very different situation.
Are the Iranians that stupid? The USN and RN could sweep the Iranian Navy and the Revolutionary Guards water-borne forces from the Gulf, in very quick order.

Currently, Iran is in some political turmoil, we hear little of it due to censorship, but we know peaceful student demos have been brutally supressed.
That adds to widespread anger over the total failure of the our holocaust denying Iranian leader, to deliver on his election promises in the economic area.
Which is why he got the job (helped by severe restrictions on 'unsuitable' candidates).

Also, his excesses and the even more negative consequences for Iran internationally, are even starting to concern the Mullah's.

They have a big problem, the massive numbers of young Iranians who want more freedom, a better economy, a lot less Islamic fundamentalism running their lives.
But-do not for one moment mistake this for a desire for direct Western intervention, of any kind.
That would play right into the hands of the hardliners, uniting Iranian society.

But, clearly if harm comes to these sailors, those factors would have to take a back seat.
 
Blackbird
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:07 am

Sounds like a Gulf of Tonkin pretext....

Andrea Kent
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:18 am

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 35):
Sounds like a Gulf of Tonkin pretext....

Andrea Kent

The Gulf Of Tonkin was purposely reported as attacks on US ships when the actual attack was minimal or even non-existent.

On the contrary, the British government is keeping pretty quiet and the Iranian government is the one taking action.

How is it a GOT pretext?
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 28):
Remember the German tourist, who strayed into Iranian waters during a fishing trip in the Gulf last year? He just got released a few weeks ago after having spent almost one year in Iranian prison for illegal border crossing. The real reason why they kept him so long was that the Iranian government tried to use him as a hostage to force the German government to release a convicted terrorist murderer from German jail (he got sentenced for life for his involvement in the killing of exile-Iranian oposition members in Berlin in the 1980s).

-
Something like this is to be feared. But let's hope for a swifter way-out of this situation.
-

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 36):
the British government is keeping pretty quiet and the Iranian government is the one taking action.

Everything which has become public up to now came from officials of the British MoD. While the Iranian government up to now has been rather quiet. I however expect that they tomorrow morning will be out with some 5000 words of declarations and explanations.
 
dc863
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 5:51 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 36):
How is it a GOT pretext?



Never underestimate the lunacy of the left.
Remember they're the one's who came up with the whole 9/11 tinfoil hat theory.
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 37):
While the Iranian government up to now has been rather quiet. I however expect that they tomorrow morning will be out with some 5000 words of declarations and explanations.

With all due respect, that is incorrect.

Iranian officials told a local journalist that the men were being held for violating Iranian territorial waters...."The Revolutionary Guards detained the 15 sailors while they were in Iranian water, not Iraqi," Daryaban said the officials told him. "It is not the first time that the British transgress our waters and inspect Iranian ships."


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...84777.story?coll=la-home-headlines
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 34):
In any case, it seems the Frigate was some distance from the incident,

Its unlikely that the frigate was some distance away, as the rigid raider type craft are purely used for boarding parties working from the mother ship, they have no capability to work unsupported.
 
GDB
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:19 am

Buy some distance, I mean a mile or several, not over the horizon.
The ship could, had it known for sure what was happening, engaged with it's 4.5 inch gun.
Again, we could be talking of 15 dead RN sailors, plus if the vessel they were searching was innocent, dead civilians too.

Closer, much closer, the 30mm cannon could have been employed, maybe if very close, the machine guns mounted all over the ship, but that would have been so close, this incident would not, could not, have happaned.

[Edited 2007-03-23 23:38:54]
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:31 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 39):
that is incorrect.

no longer up-to-date. It was based on my last check-up on various WEBsites. The report under
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...DD-F79A-4CF0-8524-C84E9BB0ECD7.htm
among other details states
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In a statement later during on Friday, Tehran defended its actions and said the British sailors had entered Iranian territorial waters illegally, describing it as an "open incursion".
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"This is not the first time that British military personnel during the occupation of Iraq have entered illegally into Iran's territorial waters," Iranian state TV quoted an official as saying.
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interesting is that IRNA, the Iranian news agency, still has nothing on the matter, but that may change any minute now
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:37 am

and here something interesting :
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An Iraqi fisherman in Basra told Reuters he had seen the incident in the Shatt al-Arab waterway that marks the southern stretch of Iraq’s border with Iran. There was no sign of any violence, said the fisherman, who asked not to be named.
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www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle....q_March164.xml§ion=focusoniraq
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so that it was actually right on the sea-border of Iraq/Iran, and it is clear that the Brits use the maps Britain established during its rule over Iraq, while Iran most certainly uses maps showing the border farther west, as these differences already in the 1970ies lead to problems
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Blackbird
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 10:48 am

RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:42 am

Unfortunately this could be an excuse that would allow the US to go to war with Iran. If Bush could not manage to get a war, on this avenue, I think Bush would be willing to stage a terrorist attack which would be blamed on Iran.

Keep in mind, Congress is trying to cut Bush's funding for war... that's bound to make Bush and Cheney desperate.

Andrea Kent
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:43 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 43):
said the fisherman, who asked not to be named.

Smart man!
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 35):
Sounds like a Gulf of Tonkin pretext....Andrea Kent

This isn't anything like the GOT.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 42):
In a statement later during on Friday, Tehran defended its actions and said the British sailors had entered Iranian territorial waters illegally, describing it as an "open incursion".

Teheran's actions are indefensible under international law.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 43):
so that it was actually right on the sea-border of Iraq/Iran, and it is clear that the Brits use the maps Britain established during its rule over Iraq,

I would suspect that they are using maps or boundaries establish by the UN since that's whose mandate they are operting under in those waters.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 44):
Unfortunately this could be an excuse that would allow the US to go to war with Iran.

First the British would have to go to war and that's not going to happen.

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 44):
that's bound to make Bush and Cheney desperate.

Yes, this makes perfect sense! They had a squad of Navy Seals inflitrate the ship, swap out the correct maps with incorrect ones, and then they alerted the Iranian officials to the presence of the ship so that they can get more money from congress. After all, hijacked British ships in Iranian waters did spark the Arbor Day Wars of 1985. Those bastards!

 rotfl 
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Iranian Forces Hold British Navy Sailors

Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:58 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 48):
Quoting Blackbird (Reply 44):
that's bound to make Bush and Cheney desperate.

Yes, this makes perfect sense!

To those who believe in 9/11 conspiracies, your explanation of what 'could' have happened seems easier to do in the first place.

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