mirrodie
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For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:05 am

After 12 years of catholic education, no one, not a single nun, brother, priest or laymen, has been able to demystify one question for me....



Why can't we eat chicken on Fridays in Lent?
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rineanna
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:11 am

Here you go, hope this solves your conundrum!:

Quote:
Most Catholics think that Vatican II did away with the requirement of not eating meat on any Friday of the year. Most think it is now just Ash Wednesday and the Fridays of Lent that we cannot eat meat.

This is what the new Code of Canon Law brought out in 1983 says about the matter:

Canon 1251
Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
Canon Law still requires that Catholics not eat meat on Fridays!

Of course, most Episcopal Conferences have determined that, instead of abstaining from meat, Catholics may perform an act of penance of their choosing. But, do you ever remember to abstain from a particular food or do some other penance on Fridays? And, at any rate, the main rule is still to abstain from meat on Fridays, the performance of another penance instead is an optional alternative.

It's very interesting to note that the National Conference of Catholic Bishops (the United States' Episcopal Conference) is currently debating whether to rescind the determination and require all Catholics to abstain from meat on all Fridays of the year. The Bishops are considering that a return to meatless Fridays for all Catholics would be of benefit because:

It is an expression of one's Catholicity; and
In reparation for the grave sin of abortion.

Source:http://www.catholic-pages.com/life/fridaymeat.asp
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:25 am

Also take note Mirrodie that it's not only chicken, We aren't supposed to eat any meat products at all. And be thankful we are in todays world, because I remember hearing stories when I was in Catholic School about how this used to be a year round thing, not just Lent.
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WellHung
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:32 am

Because all the legs, thighs and breasts are on a priest's lap?
 
trvyyz
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:32 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
Why can't we eat chicken on Fridays in Lent?

I am a Catholic and I conveniently break that rule among many others  Wink and still consider myself to be a good Catholic  biggrin 
 
rineanna
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:40 am

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 4):
I am a Catholic and I conveniently break that rule among many others and still consider myself to be a good Catholic

"cafeteria-catholic", as someone called this level of Catholicism in one of the earlier religious threads?!
 
LY744
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:41 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
Why can't we eat chicken on Fridays in Lent?

Because God hates you. I'm not going to lie, it may be personal.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
 
trvyyz
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting Rineanna (Reply 5):

upto a certain extent. But I am NOT a "Cafeteria-Christian". I am not a great fan of denominations.
Hope that settles it.
 
kalakaua
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:58 am

All this time I was eating chicken because I thought chicken is poultry and not considered red meat.

I feel bad. After all back in the days, you couldn't eat meat at all during Lent (not only on Fridays), hence Mardi Gras. And even more, as JetsGo said, year round. I'm grateful, though. It is all part of the humility. I may not have the zeal like other devout Catholics, but I understand why we do it. It's not always about me.

And by the way, I can take a Catholic joke once or twice and I can laugh at them, but after awhile, it just gets irritating folks.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
alfa75
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:58 am

I too went to Catholic school for junior high and high school and I never got a more lucid explanation about the subject until I found the following passage in a book that I am currently reading.

It is quite interesting, the book is "Cod: a Biography of the Fish That Changed the World" by Mark Kurlansky.

And I quote,

"Catholicism gave the Basques their great opportunity. The medieval church imposed fast days on which sexual intercourse and the eating of flesh were forbidden, but the eating of 'cold' foods was permitted. Because fish came from water, it was deemed cold, as were waterfowl and whale, but meat was considered hot food. The Basques were already selling whale meat to Catholics on 'lean days,' which, since Friday was the day of Christ's crucifixion, included all Fridays, the forty days of Lent, and various other days of note on the religious calendar. In total meat was forbidden for almost half the days of the year, and those lean days eventually became salt cod days. Cod became almost a religious icon--a mythological crusader for Christian observance."

I believe it was the Second Vatican council in the mid sixties that changed the requirement from every Friday to only those that occur during Lent as well as Ash Wednesday. If I find proof of the matter I will post it here.

(Edited for spelling errors, I hope there are no more!!)

[Edited 2007-03-30 03:01:02]
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mirrodie
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 1:10 pm

Quoting WellHung (Reply 3):
Because all the legs, thighs and breasts are on a priest's lap?

that was just wrong. But I laughed.

Quoting Kalakaua (Reply 8):
All this time I was eating chicken because I thought chicken is poultry and not considered red meat.

Well, you finally caught on. AFAIK, chicken is poultry. Meat is meat. Since when is poultry considered meat?


I only posted the question regarding chicken thinking you'd have caught on early. In the 2nd post, yes, all that Vatican jargon is all good and nice, but I just fail to see how chicken is meat. Poultry is poultry, meat is meat and fish is fish.

Get it? When did this ridiculous chicken is meat conspiracy begin?
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StarCruiser
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:43 pm

Quoting Mirrodie (Thread starter):
Why can't we eat chicken on Fridays in Lent?

Actually, you may eat anything you choose. No one is forcing you to abstain from anything, If you have to be forced your "gift" is of no value since it isn't a gift. The fasting and abstinence laws today are nothing but a relic of the old days anyway. The distinction between meat (red or white) and fish is what is important here. Meat lives on land and fish in water. Chickens live on land, ergo, they are meat.

Those of us who keep these "recommendations" do so simply to remind ourselves of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross for our sins. They are hardly payment for anything, but like a small child's homemade gift to Mom or Dad on their birthdays, just an offering of our love. To gripe and complain about something so trivial seems pretty petty when we consider why we are asked to sacrifice, and no, I am not saying you are doing so.

If you really want to sacrifice, try following Kosher dietary restrictions.

By the way, I went to Catholic grade school, high school, university, and seminary for graduate school -- a total of 21 years. When I was ordained at 27 my father asked me, "Are you finally going to go to work now?" In a month I turn 60 so I've been at it awhile.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:06 pm

I thought it was Fast on these days & the money saved would go towards feeding a hungry person.
Wasn't that the logic.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
mirrodie
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting Starcruiser (Reply 11):
By the way, I went to Catholic grade school, high school, university, and seminary for graduate school

Sounds like you have the credentials to provide a good answer.

But....

Quoting Starcruiser (Reply 11):
The distinction between meat (red or white) and fish is what is important here. Meat lives on land and fish in water. Chickens live on land, ergo, they are meat.

That is an interesting statement, one that I have never heard before. Chickens live on land, therefore are meat????

Not sure if I buy that.
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N231YE
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:42 pm

This thread reminds me of the "tizzy" from last year: St. Patrick's day, when eating corned beef is the tradition, fell on a Friday (lent: no meat). I asked my church's Pasteur, who said that as long as the only meat I ate was corned beef, that would be fine.
 
trvyyz
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:04 pm

Here's the answer I guess.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur121.htm

The law of abstinence prohibits eating the flesh, marrow and blood products of such animals and birds as constitute flesh meat.
Also that chicken is not cold-blooded.
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:23 am

Its rules like not being able to eat chicken on Fridays during Lent made me an Episcopalian. LOL J/K. I was raised Catholic and have a deep respect for the Roman Catholic Church. I have to say Anglicanism is better though! Big grin

-Delta767300ER
 
kaitak
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:53 am

You know it's strange, I never actually knew that. I was born and raised a Catholic and my parents (who are now in Rome!) are staunchly Catholic, but we never abstained from meat on a Friday - except of course for Good Friday! You learn a new thing every day.

My concerns are about Hell. The previous Pope suggested that Hell doesn't exist and now, the new (well, new-ish) Pope says there is a place of pain and torment (and I'm assuming he doesn't mean East Enders). So, is there a Hell? I do wish they'd make their mind up.
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:02 am

Quote:
My concerns are about Hell. The previous Pope suggested that Hell doesn't exist and now, the new (well, new-ish) Pope says there is a place of pain and torment (and I'm assuming he doesn't mean East Enders). So, is there a Hell? I do wish they'd make their mind up.

I feel that Hell is a dark remoteness from the Almighty Father rather than a place of pain and torment. Most mainline churches believe this also.

-Delta767300ER
 
StarCruiser
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:31 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 17):
You know it's strange, I never actually knew that. I was born and raised a Catholic and my parents (who are now in Rome!) are staunchly Catholic, but we never abstained from meat on a Friday - except of course for Good Friday! You learn a new thing every day.

Perhaps all of us Americans should have made clear we were discusing the customs for the USA. The pope dispensed all European Catholics of Friday abstinence during WWII due to the difficulty of getting meat. If it happened to arrive on Friday people had to eat it then or it might go bad. After the war it is my understanding that the practice of abstinence was never reinstituted (Europeans, correct me if I am wrong). In the USA we were never dispensed as it was easier to obtain meat here. Actually it was much harder to obtain fish then rather than meat. Remember those horrendous fish sticks? Yuuk!

In my earlier comment when I said that fowl and land animals were all considered as meat for the purposes of abstinence, I was not speaking of biological categories. Jews make similar distinctions when speaking of both clean and unclean fish and animals. Shellfish and fish without scales are unclean and fish with scales are clean. Yet all come from the sea. We now know that those particular unclean fish tended to go bad very quickly and made people ill or caused their deaths. As late as the kidnapping of the Jews from an Air France flight from TLV-ATH-ORY some years ago the Jews were held at the airport in Entebee, Uganda. Those who refused to eat unclean food and ate mostly fruits and vegetables remained healthy while those who ate pork and other unclean foods became very ill.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:15 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 17):
I was born and raised a Catholic and my parents (who are now in Rome!) are staunchly Catholic, but we never abstained from meat on a Friday - except of course for Good Friday

Same Here Roman Catholic Family.Total Fast on Good Friday & other Fridays during lent Including Ash Wednesday & Maundy Thursday No meat.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Tom in NO
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:57 pm

Where in the Bible does it literally say 'no meat on Friday's during Lent or on Ash Wednesday'?.....just curious.

Tom at MSY
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Superfly
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:13 am

I was raised in a strick Catholic family. I rememeber these traditions and rituals. I still find myself eating fish on Friday evenings.

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 21):
Where in the Bible does it literally say 'no meat on Friday's during Lent or on Ash Wednesday'?.....just curious.

Which Bible are you reading?
Are you following the Douay-Rheims Bible?
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Tom in NO
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
Which Bible are you reading?

I was raised in the Lutheran church using the King James version, but now we use the New International Version (NIV).

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
Superfly
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:33 am

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 23):
I was raised in the Lutheran church using the King James version, but now we use the New International Version (NIV).

So the answer to your question would be found in the Douay-Rheims Bible.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
Tom in NO
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:05 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
So the answer to your question would be found in the Douay-Rheims Bible.

How's about narrowing it down a little?  wink  I'm guessing Deuteronomy or Leviticus...

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
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NWOrientDC10
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:28 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
I was raised in a strick Catholic family

So was I.  Smile My Patron Saint during Confrimation was St. Joseph. Who was yours?

Quoting Tom in NO (Reply 21):
Are you following the Douay-Rheims Bible?

What's the "Douay-Rheims" Bible?

Here's the Roman Catholic Bible:

http://www.catholic.org/phpframedire...w.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/index.htm

Here's the King James Bible:

http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/?action=getVersionInfo&vid=9

The Catholic Bible has seven additional books in the old testament.

Here's my answer to the original question. According to Catholic Tradition (as I remember it) , Jesus was Crucified on Friday. We, his children, should sacrifice something (meat, which was scarce at the time this tradition was started) every week to remember what Christ did for all of us.

Something else which should be taken into account. The books of the bible were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. To truly know what was said in these writings, one can either learn these languages and read the books as they were written or obtain a concordance and do an exegesis. Even if one does all of this, here's a question to be pondered. Which of the bible (or other religious writtings - Buddhist, Hindu, Islam, etc...) should be taken literally and which should be transliterated and/or paraphrased?

Interesting indeed...

Russell
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mirrodie
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:25 pm

Nice.


Anyway, as I was saying,

I just got off the phone with his holiness, the Pope. He says no meat on those days of obligation, but chicken and pizza are fine. I smell a Vatican pizza conspiracy to sell pizza going on here.
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civjetfan
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:33 pm

I am a catholic but i am an avid bible reader and historian. I don't believe in the meat rule as it was created by the the church during the middle ages for 2 reason mainly. One is that is was the plague years and the plague passed through uncooked meat so they do not cook their meat in that time. the second it was created as a method of controlling the european population so more meat could be kept for the upper class. So its not even in the bible about not eating meat so that is why I do not follow that stupid rule and i hope the pope will change it.  Smile
 
Superfly
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:40 pm

Quoting Civjetfan (Reply 28):
i hope the pope will change it.

We can all send him an instant message.  Smile

http://airliners.net/discussions/profile.main?username=Pope

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 27):
I just got off the phone with his holiness, the Pope.

Why has he become so partisan?
Bring back the Concorde
 
Tom in NO
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RE: For My Fellow Catholic Friends....

Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting Civjetfan (Reply 28):
So its not even in the bible about not eating meat

Precisely the point I was leading up to with my original question   

Tom at MSY

[Edited 2007-04-03 18:49:59]
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina

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