bezoar
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Just Vs. Unjust War

Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:38 pm

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." - Matthew 5:38-39

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you." - Luke 6: 27-28

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Even as a professed Christian I struggle with these instructions given by Jesus. I try to imagine how Jesus' strategy would have played out in WWII. I certainly wonder how such a tact would have fared in Iraq.

I know there have been some impassioned discussions within other threads that touch on the issue of a Just vs. Unjust war, but I thought it might be interesting to bring the debate to it's own arena.

I find myself pondering:

To what degree should we be willing to 'turn the other cheek'?
Is there a point at which fighting is justified?
Is there a point at which war becomes the right thing to do?
Is there a point at which taking someone else's life is just?

What are your thoughts?
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
Springbok747
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Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: Just Vs. Unjust War

Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:15 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Even as a professed Christian I struggle with these instructions given by Jesus.

Er....did you ever stop to consider that the Bible was written by human beings, and not by Jesus?

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
To what degree should we be willing to 'turn the other cheek'?

Can't turn the other cheek, otherwise we'd be f*cked

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Is there a point at which fighting is justified?

All wars are justified. Yes, even the one in Iraq.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Is there a point at which war becomes the right thing to do?

Yes, sometimes war is the only answer.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Is there a point at which taking someone else's life is just?

It's a war...s*it happens. Yes it is ok to kill someone if that person was intent on killing you.
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HAWK21M
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Just Vs. Unjust War

Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:02 pm

Theres no Good & Bad in Todays world. ONLY GREY.

Every Country looks for its Interests.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
pelican
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: Just Vs. Unjust War

Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:31 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Even as a professed Christian I struggle with these instructions given by Jesus. I try to imagine how Jesus' strategy would have played out in WWII. I certainly wonder how such a tact would have fared in Iraq.

To make it a little bit easier for us Christians there are dozens of theologians and philosophers who thought about a just war (Jus ad bellum).
Very famous are the thought of Thomas Aquinas.
The wikipedia article isn't bad as a start. It mentions many theorists who thought about a just war.
just war

pelican
 
bezoar
Posts: 746
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 4:47 am

RE: Just Vs. Unjust War

Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:30 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 1):
Er....did you ever stop to consider that the Bible was written by human beings, and not by Jesus?

And your point is what?

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 1):
All wars are justified.

And how do you arrive at this position? Does might make right? It seems like with this war would only beget more war.

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 2):
Every Country looks for its Interests.

Yet, not all the citizens agree on what those interests are, or how to go about securing them.

Quoting Pelican (Reply 3):
To make it a little bit easier for us Christians there are dozens of theologians and philosophers who thought about a just war (Jus ad bellum).

I'll have to ponder that one a bit more. I'm not sure it resolves all questions.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Just Vs. Unjust War

Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:09 am

I am a pacifist myself, but I still have trouble fitting World War Two into that philosophy. Obviously, that war was full of atrocities on both sides, like all war is, but it's overall goal was noble. I think in most cases where nations go to war, there are opportunities to settle the differences diplomatically without resorting to violence. When nations either refuse to take these or fail to see them, that makes war more of a tragedy. Despite my pacifism, however, I still support the US having a standing military. I might be a pacifist, but I don't expect everyone to be, and not having an army would take away their right to be defended by their state.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
tbar220
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2000 12:08 pm

RE: Just Vs. Unjust War

Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 1):

All wars are justified.

I have major problems with this statement, care to explain it?
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Mir
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RE: Just Vs. Unjust War

Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Even as a professed Christian I struggle with these instructions given by Jesus. I try to imagine how Jesus' strategy would have played out in WWII. I certainly wonder how such a tact would have fared in Iraq.

That strategy fares very well, but only when both sides are playing.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

RE: Just Vs. Unjust War

Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:29 am

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 1):
Er....did you ever stop to consider that the Bible was written by human beings, and not by Jesus?

Not the issue here

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
To what degree should we be willing to 'turn the other cheek'?
Is there a point at which fighting is justified?
Is there a point at which war becomes the right thing to do?
Is there a point at which taking someone else's life is just?

I believe Abraham Lincoln summed it up when he said:

"Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it."
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.

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