flyingbronco05
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Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:57 am

"WASHINGTON (AP) -- Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich equated bilingual education Saturday with "the language of living in a ghetto" and mocked requirements that ballots be printed in multiple languages.

"The government should quit mandating that various documents be printed in any one of 700 languages depending on who randomly shows up" to vote, said Gingrich, who is considering seeking the Republican presidential nomination in 2008. He made the comments in a speech to the National Federation of Republican Women."

I am 100% for this. This is america. Speak english or get out.

I understand the US is made up of different ethnicities, but everything should be done in 100% english.

More at: http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/...1/gingrich.bilingual.ap/index.html
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:05 pm

While I wouldn't use quite the language, I must agree . . .

This is America. Wanna live here, speak English. There is no damn way I should hear "For English Press 1" when I use a phone.

OK, exceptions: Emergency numbers, medical calls. Otherwise . . . . that's it.

Ditto road signs, wanna navigate, learn to Habla.


Besides alllllll that: We graducate kids from school every day - ok, US Born and bred kids - that cannot use the English language properly . . . can't spell, can't speak, but we declare them "educated". Why do we want to complicate this with an additional language. Get the English right FIRST.
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Duff44
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:22 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
This is America. Wanna live here, speak English. There is no damn way I should hear "For English Press 1" when I use a phone.

There's no way you should hear an automated voice when you pick up the phone, regardless what it says

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Ditto road signs, wanna navigate, learn to Habla.

Are there road signs in other languages in the US? I've never seen them if there are...

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Besides alllllll that: We graducate kids from school every day - ok, US Born and bred kids - that cannot use the English language properly . . . can't spell, can't speak, but we declare them "educated". Why do we want to complicate this with an additional language. Get the English right FIRST.

Leave the 'additional language' comment out, and I completely agree with that.
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VonRichtofen
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:33 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Besides alllllll that: We graducate kids from school every day - ok, US Born and bred kids - that cannot use the English language properly . . . can't spell, can't speak, but we declare them "educated". Why do we want to complicate this with an additional language. Get the English right FIRST.

You're right about getting the English right first, however US students are already falling behind much of the worlds graduates (who almost all bilingual). The reality is that the world is more and more becoming a global market. Unilingual graduates will be the least desirable I'm afraid.

The whole ghetto comment by Newt is ridiculous.

Kris
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:39 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
This is America. Wanna live here, speak English.

But you forget, John, that that's never been the case, really. If you stepped into Little Italy or Chinatown or any other ethnic enclave in any major city in the US at the beginning of the 20th century, you'd be run out of town on a rail for even suggesting that. Most immigrants coming into the US in the mid 19th and early 20th centuries had little, if any knowledge of English and the solution then was multilingualism - important documents were often published in the language of the dominant minority of a city or enclave. The same scare tactics have come up time and time again - that somehow America will be mongrelized by unwashed hoardes speaking strange languages. Time and time again the same thing has happened - the use of the native language diminishes with each succeeding generation. Bilingual education has been around as long as there's been a United States - I'd go so far as to say I'm pretty certain Gingrich's Pennsylvania Dutch forebears benefitted from binlingual education without much complaint from them.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:53 pm

Quoting Duff44 (Reply 2):
Are there road signs in other languages in the US? I've never seen them if there are...

Miami.

El Paso

Houston

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 3):
You're right about getting the English right first, however US students are already falling behind much of the worlds graduates (who almost all bilingual). The reality is that the world is more and more becoming a global market. Unilingual graduates will be the least desirable I'm afraid.

The whole ghetto comment by Newt is ridiculous.

Which is why, amongst other reasons, we need to concentrate on English. A lot of our "graduates" can't speaktheir own language, much less make an attempt at another. . . .

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 4):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
This is America. Wanna live here, speak English.

But you forget, John, that that's never been the case, really

No I didn't forget.

I expect such when I'm in little Italy. I have NO inhibitions about learning a second language. Not at all.

However, when I was 10-12-15-18 . . . even 205-30, I never heard "For English Press1" on the phone. I just assumed (and spare me the cliche,  laughing  ) that's what I would hear . . . . this IS America. What the hell else would I expect.

Now before I can talk to anyone, not only do I have to select English  redflag  I have to listen to thirty five message, Press 1, Press 5, press 3, Press 5#, and STILL I'm probably talking to the same agent.  irked 


I don't want to scare anyone, nor do I want their heritage destroyed. What I wanti is, immigrants to speak English.

Anyone ever use a phone in Germany???? Anyone ever for Ensglish press einze? Not a frackin' chance.

How about Australia, anyone ever get "For English Press 1"?  duck 

You get my point, I'm sure.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:13 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
Anyone ever for Ensglish press einze? Not a frackin' chance.

FWIW though, Germany doesn't have the same historical tradition as the US - keep in mind that any sort of large-scale immigration into Western Europe has only been a phenomenon for the last 50 years - we've had to deal with it since almost Day 1. Our cultural history has always been one of acommodation towards new arrivals
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:26 pm

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 6):
Our cultural history has always been one of acommodation towards new arrivals

Yes,it has, and should be. However, there comes a time, when the line must be drawn.

When we start posting signed in SPANISH first = see Miami, then we've a problem. And I'm not talking about the signs at the local Spanish grocer . . . let him/her hang whatever they want. . .

When we see signed on Gov't buildings, on street corners, etc in a language other than English, first, we have a problem.

My daughter now wants to learn japanese, having spent the last month with a Japanese exvhange student at her house. I say go for it, as soon as you've give a decent go at English, press on.
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davestanKSAN
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:30 pm

Well after I heard this: "Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich equated bilingual education Saturday with "the language of living in a ghetto" I didn't really care to listen to what Mr. Gingrich said. What an ignorant statement.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
However, when I was 10-12-15-18 . . . even 205-30, I never heard "For English Press1" on the phone.

Well duh, Alexander Graham Bell spoke English.  silly 

Dave
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jetjack74
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:36 pm

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 6):
Germany doesn't have the same historical tradition as the US - keep in mind that any sort of large-scale immigration into Western Europe has only been a phenomenon for the last 50 years - we've had to deal with it since almost Day 1. Our cultural history has always been one of acommodation towards new arrivals

Yes, but those are much smaller countries, and with mass emmigration of it's own citizens, the same is soon to come elsewhere. As more foreigner immigrants come to places like Britain, France, Germany, and Denmark, as the numbers go up, so will their demands for the host country to asimilate to their culture. For example, last year, some representatives of muslims locales in Britain were demanding Sha'ria law for muslim citizens, saying it was justification that muslims should not have to be subject to a law system they don't recongnise. And if that were to happen, society would explode into chaos. And the same could be said in the Mid east, where many motorway signs are both in Arabic and English. But that's mainly becuase alot of these Arab/Gulf states are business metropolis'. I'm sure many hardline religeous leaders may not like that, as many Americans wouldn, like to see spanish translations below the English signage.
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j_hallgren
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:37 pm

When I'm having trouble reading the labels on food products because they have English and Spanish all mixed together, that's when I definitely agree! My parents came to US from Sweden back in the 1920's-40's and had to learn English to survive here, so why can't folks now? This dual language thing has to end!
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Confuscius
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:46 pm

Are there road signs in other languages in the US? I've never seen them if there are...

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jetjack74
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:51 pm

Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 10):
My parents came to US from Sweden back in the 1920's-40's and had to learn English to survive here, so why can't folks now?

Reluctance to do so could be one reason. This past December in Seattle, there over 50 people killed due to fire and smoke inhalation due to partly in fact they couldn't read warning the labels on gas cookers, space heaters and charcoal grills. They lit them off indoors to keep warm and died, burned out apartments in buildings. Had they been able to read warning labels, they may have in fact avoided death or injury.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:58 pm

Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 10):
English to survive here, so why can't folks now?

Again, the trend is that as immigrant cultures settle that the use of their native tongue will decline. The problem with immigration from Spanish-speaking cultures is that it's been a generation-spanning migration and it's still in the somewhat early stages. Again, people are learning but it usually takes a generation or two to see pronounced effects.
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md90fan
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:12 pm

Well, once when I was in the 6th grade. I went to a public middle school in Los Angeles (Westwood, if your familiar with the area).

While I was in the advanced classes, some of the regular classes were divided into 30 minute periods(normally 1 hour) so they could teach in Spanish to the Hispanic (Read: Mexican) students and the other 30 minutes to the English speaking students.

I'm sure that hellhole has only gotten worst because they are now busing in more kids on "Opportunity Transfers" from poorer,crime-riddled neighborhoods about 25miles to the Southeast.

 boggled 

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ANCFlyer
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:18 pm

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 14):
While I was in the advanced classes, some of the regular classes were divided into 30 minute periods(normally 1 hour) so they could teach in Spanish to the Hispanic (Read: Mexican) students and the other 30 minutes to the English speaking students.

 redflag  irked 

Nonsense.

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 13):
The problem with immigration from Spanish-speaking cultures is that it's been a generation-spanning migration and it's still in the somewhat early stages. Again, people are learning but it usually takes a generation or two to see pronounced effects.

Well, hell, we've got muti-generatios of Spanish (read: Mexican) populations here. Not a first generation or second . . . . don't you think is's about time???

I do. About twety years ago.
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md90fan
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:25 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
Nonsense.

Why is it nonsense?
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TIA
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:27 pm

While I wouldn't expect all immigrants to learn English since I'm quite aware that it is much, much harder for older people to learn a new language, there is absoutely no excuse for school kids to not know English. There is no case for bilingual education. If anything, it slows down the integration of young immigrants in the US. Yes I know that when people first arrive in the US they might not know English and that they would have an extremely hard time being put in a classroom where they don't understand anything. But I bet that it would be a lot more beneficial to them if they struggled the first few months in such a setting and learned English than being taught in their native tongue and still not knowing English a year later. Young people can pick up a new language quite easily if the environment around them dictates so. And I know this for a fact since I was in that position once.
 
j_hallgren
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:29 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 12):
there over 50 people killed due to fire and smoke inhalation due to partly in fact they couldn't read warning the labels

That's just common sense to not use those things indoors...like not trying to cross an interstate highway on foot at night, etc....so learning English is critical if one wants to be here and function...just like if I went to live in Sweden, I'd try and learn their language, even though I'd be able to get by without it.
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garnetpalmetto
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:32 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 15):
Well, hell, we've got muti-generatios of Spanish (read: Mexican) populations here. Not a first generation or second . . . . don't you think is's about time???

That's precisely the problem though, Pep. You have a pretty continuous stream coming through, same as with Germans in the 19th century. You have multiple generations and odds are your younger generations born in the country are fluent and your older generations can read/converse in English at a functional better or level. Your fresh in the country migrant fruit picker, however, is of course not going to have the same level of English. I feel like I'm not making myself clear due to the late hour and exhaustion on my part from working on a paper all night last night and then having to drive to CAE today, but basically what I'm trying to say is that you can't look at all immigrants as a monolithic group - you can't say "well there have been Mexicans in this country for multiple generations, they should all know English to the point of being fully conversent." The problem with that line of thought is that as it's a continuous stream within the last few decades, you'll have the family who has been in the country for multiple generations and has mastery of the English language but you're still going to have the new immigrant who has yet to acquire the language or is working to do so. Given time that new immigrant will pick up and master the language - that's what I mean to say. With that, I'm going to get reacquainted with my bed so that I'm semi-coherent tomorrow!
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Fiatstilojtd
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:34 pm

Here in Austria it is confusing.....on one side the government tries more and more to force Turks, former yugoslavian etc. to learn German (there are many children who were born here but cannot speak a single german word when they start school - most of the times very old fashioned thinking parents prohibit that)....however on the other hand side we offer more and more services (Government-Webpages, Driving School etc.) in foreign languages (for example in Turkish Language)....so why should they learn German when they can have every important information etc. they need in their own Language.
 
melpax
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:45 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
How about Australia, anyone ever get "For English Press 1"?

Not yet. However, most, if not all government departments will publish copies of their information in other languages, the main 'other languages' here would be Vietnamese, Chinese(Mandarin & Cantonese) Arabic, Farsi, Hindi(this is rarely a problem here as most Indians/Pakastanis who come here are highly qualified & are fluent in English). Just look up the website of any State/Federal govenment department here & you'll see this. Also there is a Telephone translating service where people who speak a lanuage other than English are able to contact government departments & translate on their behalf (I used to get quite a few of these calls at work).

All road signs are in English, although in areas with large immigrant populations (Springvale here in MEL comes to mind, with a large Vietnamese population) may have local directional signs in the language of the main immigrant population of the area, also many of the shops may be in a forigen language. Up to the late 80's, it was quite commmon to see shop signs in the inner suburbs here in Greek & Italian (Melbourne has the largest Greek-born population outside of Greece), now if you drive down Springvale Rd Springvale or Victoria Street in Richmond, you could be mistaken for driving through Saigon, for all the shopfronts written in Vietnamese.

It would be a boring place without immigration. (We'd proably still be eating pork pies with spotted dick for dessert)
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petertenthije
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:00 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
Anyone ever use a phone in Germany????

I think there will be a fair amount of persons making calls in Germany. 

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
Anyone ever for Ensglish press einze? Not a frackin' chance.

Don't suppose you have made a lot of calls to Der Heimat then? Try for instance the DHL-hotline where if I am not mistaken you will get the "For English press one".



edited for spelling

[Edited 2007-04-01 12:00:47]
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airtran737
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:30 pm

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Thread starter):
"WASHINGTON (AP) -- Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich equated bilingual education Saturday with "the language of living in a ghetto" and mocked requirements that ballots be printed in multiple languages.

"The government should quit mandating that various documents be printed in any one of 700 languages depending on who randomly shows up" to vote, said Gingrich, who is considering seeking the Republican presidential nomination in 2008. He made the comments in a speech to the National Federation of Republican Women."

I am 100% for this. This is america. Speak english or get out.

I understand the US is made up of different ethnicities, but everything should be done in 100% english.

Most intelligent thing that Newt has ever said. I wish I could add him to my respected users list. Que the Liberal response. Perhaps instead of Spanish we could bring up the old California plan to teach kids Ebonics in schools? Don't you think that's a good idea? Educate an entire state to speak slang and sound lick jackasses.
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disruptivehair
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:35 pm

Quoting TIA (Reply 17):
While I wouldn't expect all immigrants to learn English since I'm quite aware that it is much, much harder for older people to learn a new language, there is absoutely no excuse for school kids to not know English. There is no case for bilingual education. If anything, it slows down the integration of young immigrants in the US. Yes I know that when people first arrive in the US they might not know English and that they would have an extremely hard time being put in a classroom where they don't understand anything. But I bet that it would be a lot more beneficial to them if they struggled the first few months in such a setting and learned English than being taught in their native tongue and still not knowing English a year later. Young people can pick up a new language quite easily if the environment around them dictates so. And I know this for a fact since I was in that position once.

I completely agree. As adults get older, they lose the ability to acquire a new language to fluency. Some linguists think that even the teens is too late to start for some people. I first started studying foreign languages at 14 and I now speak four languages, but each was harder than the last to learn.

We had bilingual education in my high school; those kids started high school speaking Spanish and ended it speaking Spanish. Oddly enough kids from places like Romania, Poland, and Brazil weren't included in bilingual education classes in my school since they didn't speak Spanish either. They became fluent in English within months and integrated completely. It was frustrating watching them screw over those Hispanic kids in bilingual education classes. It may sound tough, but just throw kids in the deep end. They almost always swim.
 
777236ER
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:42 pm

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Thread starter):
I am 100% for this. This is america. Speak english or get out.

Perhaps you should learn yourself before you start preaching to others?
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Falcon84
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Thread starter):
I am 100% for this. This is america. Speak english or get out. I understand the US is made up of different ethnicities, but everything should be done in 100% english.

Had that been the attitude of people, say, back in the late 1800's, and early 1900's, we wouldn't be the nation we are today. As was mentioned above, few came here with any understanding of English, only with a desire to improve their lives. And they did learn English, and became a large part of the fabric of this nation.

I'm not say we allow them to speak only their language forever, Amen. But to say when you come here, you should completely know English is absolutel absurd. It's ignorant, it's jingoistic, and it smacks of racism.

What is needed is allow new immigrants, if they don't speak English, to complete any necessary forms in their own language. In those forms, it should be made emminently clear that in order to become a full citizen, you must learn English well enough to function in society, or you will not receive citizenship. That way, there is a motive for them to learn the language.

However, how are they going to learn the language? Through bilingual education, that's how. Just how we learn to speak another language.

Again, too many Americans act like we're the end-all, and everyone should know our language. And, fact is, most who act that way would never even attempt to learn another language, because of their own arrogance on English.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 3):
You're right about getting the English right first, however US students are already falling behind much of the worlds graduates (who almost all bilingual). The reality is that the world is more and more becoming a global market. Unilingual graduates will be the least desirable I'm afraid.

Excellent point. Hell, half of our kids, and a good majority of our parents don't have a working knowledge of the language because they're illeterate-and they were born learning English.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 23):
Most intelligent thing that Newt has ever said

Why am I not surprised you'd think that.

In fact, it's one of the most ignorant things the man has ever said. He's no dummy, and to say that smakes of arrogance and ignorance.
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airtran737
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:11 am



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Falcon84
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:26 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 27):

All you're doing, friend, is showning your own abhorence for others who are different than you; your ignorance and arrogance.

Left to those like you, we'd be simply a whitebread society. Or, is that what you would really want?

Again, what Gingrich said was a low blow at those who speak other languages. He basically said their languages aren't fit to be spoken, anywhere, in this nation, and that's just ignorant.

If you want to be ignorant with him, it's a free country.
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jetjack74
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:33 am

Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 18):
That's just common sense to not use those things indoors...like not trying to cross an interstate highway on foot at night, etc..

It is common sense for most of us. But as in some cases, some in the Somali community(which Seattle has an ever-growing East-African population), some just a few months ago lived in mud hut's on the African plains where they had a fire pit in the middle of the home with a hole in roof to let the smoke out. That was pretty much what happened in a few incidents, others didn't realise that gas grills emit noxious, invisible fumes. The lack of education knows no boundaries.
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airtran737
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 28):
All you're doing, friend, is showning your own abhorence for others who are different than you; your ignorance and arrogance.

Left to those like you, we'd be simply a whitebread society. Or, is that what you would really want?

Again, what Gingrich said was a low blow at those who speak other languages. He basically said their languages aren't fit to be spoken, anywhere, in this nation, and that's just ignorant.

They are completely free to speak their languages, but they need to learn ours, and use it as their everyday means of communication. This has nothing to do with a "whitebread society" this has to do with the fact that this country was founded by those who spoke a common language, and for a couple hundred years everything worked out somewhat well. Fast forward to present time where we coddle everyone, and bend over backwards for them, it's ten pounds of monkey crap in a five pound bag. If you want to be a citizen of this country, then you had damn well better be able to speak the language fluently, not just look at people with a blank stare blankly when someone says something to you. Speak the language, or turn right around and leave.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:17 am

It has been proven that the younger children are, the easier it is for them to learn languages, so the argument learn English first and a foreign language maybe when they are in their mid-teens is wrong.
An example is the John-F.-Kennedy school in Berlin. It was founded in 1960 to provide bilingual eductation with a mixed German/American staff from elementary school level to high school.
When the students graduate, they'll have obtained both the German Abitur and an American high school diploma.
http://www.jfks.de/index.php?id=3

Another example in Berlin would be the similarly structured French school.
http://www.fg-berlin.cidsnet.de/

I agree on the other hand that everybody who wants to stay permanently in a country will have to prove a working knowledge of the local language on application for the respective residence visa. A naturalisation should require good knowledge of the local language.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:24 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 23):
Que the Liberal response

Nice. It was a pretty slander-free thread until you came.

I am a liberal and I don't support bilingual education. Wanna retract that statement?

While the US has no official language, English is the de facto, official language. It's the language of instruction, of government, of business. Command of the English language is essential for advancement socially and economically in the US. However, the assumption that everyone who moves to the US should be fluent is absurd. You try learning a new language. Not that easy. I believe that the US should do more to aid immigrants. The US should offer free/deeply discounted rates for immigrants to take language classes, and I do believe that immigrant students should be given a grace period of 1-2 years of immersion where they are taught in both English and Spanish (or insert predominant immigrant language of the school district here). The idea of sink-or-swim isn't always the right approach, especially when we're talking about someone's education. The idea that an immigrant who moves here in July should speak fluent English by Day 1 of school in September is ridiculous. You're only going to leave that child behind. Oh, and what's that phrase that Bush and his ilk through around. Oh right, leave NO child behind. Unfortunately, a little pandering to immigrants giving them the tools and allowing them an appropriate time to learn English is a necessary evil for a country that accepts as many immigrants as the US does.

However, the idea that someone (especially of a school age where learning a new language is FAR easier than it is for adults) can go throughout their school career not learning English doesn't work.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
PLANAR
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:37 pm

RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 5):
I don't want to scare anyone, nor do I want their heritage destroyed. What I wanti is, immigrants to speak English.
Anyone ever use a phone in Germany???? Anyone ever for Ensglish press einze? Not a frackin' chance.
How about Australia, anyone ever get "For English Press 1"?   
You get my point, I'm sure.

Ever used a phone in India? English is not even our close language, infact the language of our rulers, whom the whole country once hated with passion... Yet, everywhere in India, you will find atleast tri-lingual prompts on phone. First is English, Second is Hindi and third is a local language of the place.

Do you think my family was born speaking English? Not even a chance. Yet English was one of the three compulsory languages that I had in my primary school. In fact until high school most Indian kids have atleast two compulsory languages in their curriculum. How have we all turned out? Today, I can not only comfortably switch between three languages, but infact tailor my presentation and thoughts in terms of the language of my audience.

Learning English properly is important, I completely agree. Because its not only a beautiful language but also has many scientific innovations conveyed in its expression.
But don't make learning English the sole to-be factor of being an American. After all, English is a language brought by British (white) people who came to America. Do you think the Native Americans were speaking English??
Forcing English today is just another form of Racism, as far as I can see.

America is not about speaking English. Its about opportunity, its about accepting everyone, its about hard-work and earning, its about freedom and its about the greatness of the fact that anyone who comes here legally can dream about having the American dream. These are the things that makes America a great country.
Re-inforce these concepts and believe me USA shall remain a force to reckon with for a long time.
Flim-Flam Balderdash...
 
airtran737
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 32):
Nice. It was a pretty slander-free thread until you came.

Well I just returned from a three day vacation imposed by the Moderators, I have to ruffle a few feathers. I don't think that I was to harsh, but it's your opinion, and I respect it. That what we do in America, we respect the opinions of those who we don't agree with.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Blackbird
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:17 am

Is Gingrich running for President?
 
disruptivehair
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:15 am

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 35):
Is Gingrich running for President?

Probably.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:19 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 30):
This has nothing to do with a "whitebread society"

Oh, I think it does, because there's still far too many Americans who just don't WANT immigrants, and they're using this issue to bash them on. The overwhelming majority-I'd say 99% of all immigrants, want to learn English; go out and learn English, and want to be a success in this nation-that's why they came here.

In fact, the sad truth is that many people from this nation are illiterate, and can barely function in this society because while they speak English, they can't read it. Let's turn our onus on them, and get THEM to read their native language, before taking our wrath out on immigrants, who, in time, will be able to speak more languages fluently that those bitching about immigrants.

It has everything to do with a whtebread society, my friend. I don't think there'd be this debate, honestly, of most of the current immigrants were whte Eastern Europeans. But they're not; they're hispanics, and there is still a very large segment of American that cannot tolerate, nor even attempt to tolerate those who are different from them.

I do not condone bilungualism in our schools systems. I do think immigrants who don't know the language should be given proper documents in their own language when they come here, to help learn what is expected of them, what will be required of them, if they choose to become Americans, and a big part of that is learning English. I believe they should all be given bilingual instruction to help them transistion to an English language society, not cut off a the balls the second they walk into this nation because they can't speak or read the language. They should be given a time period to learn English, and English should be pushed on them at every opportunity.

I don't believe in your attitude of "Welcome to the United States, now speak English". All that does is breed ignorance, mistrust and hatreds, nothing more.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
airtran737
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
Oh, I think it does, because there's still far too many Americans who just don't WANT immigrants, and they're using this issue to bash them on. The overwhelming majority-I'd say 99% of all immigrants, want to learn English; go out and learn English, and want to be a success in this nation-that's why they came here.

I have no problems with the immigrants at all. My girlfriend's parents came here from Vietnam in early 1981 and damn near lost their lives doing so. I appreciate their struggle, they went through hell to live the American dream, and they have done so. They both run their own business, are respected by their friends and neighbors, and both took the time to learn the language. They are model citizens, even more so than many of us who have lived here their entire lives and don't know who their Governor is, or their Senator. So for me it is not about disliking immigrants, it is about disliking those who come here and fester off the teat and do nothing to improve their lives, the same goes with the citizens of this country who do the same.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
AirCop
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:56 am

Another problem with this idea, is when the treaty was signed with Mexico regarding California, it specific states that Spanish would be one of the official languages of California. Of course treaties are meant to be broken, but again if Spanish was spoken it could damage the economy of the Golden State.
 
copaair737
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:02 am

They should learn English. When my ancestors came over off the boat from Italy, it was sink or swim. Either learn English, or sink. Needless to say, the majority learned english because they wanted to move up, and not be mired in their state in which they arrived into this country.

It's ridiculous we coddle these people, often times illegal people, at the expense of our children and taxpayers.

-Copa
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
N174UA
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Thread starter):
I am 100% for this. This is america. Speak english or get out.

 checkmark  Couldn't agree more. I appreciate the diversity that others add to the country, but if I moved to a non-English speaking country, the silent expectation is that I learn and speak their language. It's fair for them to expect that, and it's fair for me to expect them to at least make an effort to learn English if they choose to stay here.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 38):
it is about disliking those who come here and fester off the teat and do nothing to improve their lives, the same goes with the citizens of this country who do the same.

Then we've found common ground, because I agree. I don't agree with the attitude that is on those shirts, as I can hope you'll understand, because I think it sends the wrong message. I don't believing in being blunt in this instance. Those who come here should be encouraged, not threatened, or feel threatened, over the use of English.

But I'm glad we can find common ground on the issue.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
disruptivehair
Posts: 565
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:28 pm

RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 37):
It has everything to do with a whtebread society, my friend. I don't think there'd be this debate, honestly, of most of the current immigrants were whte Eastern Europeans. But they're not; they're hispanics, and there is still a very large segment of American that cannot tolerate, nor even attempt to tolerate those who are different from them.

The UK has absorbed hundreds of thousands of eastern European migrants since 2004, when the EU gained 10 new member states. The same debate is raging in the UK as we speak!
 
Yellowstone
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:16 am

My 2 cents/.22 pesos - If you want to be a citizen, or even just a resident alien, in the US, you should learn to speak English. To me, this seems like a no-brainer. So much of the economic life of this country is transacted in English, that not knowing how to speak it greatly hinders your chance of progress. And although Americans really ought to learn multiple languages like the rest of the world does, we shouldn't be forced to adopt other languages for other people's convenience. If companies feel they can earn more money by having "Para Espanol, oprima dos" features, that's fine with me, but they shouldn't feel obligated to do so. That said, I am not opposed to bilingual education. I think that different people learn languages in different ways, and whatever way an immigrant learns best, that's how they should be taught.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
ozglobal
Posts: 2511
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
While I wouldn't use quite the language, I must agree . . .

This is America. Wanna live here, speak English. There is no damn way I should hear "For English Press 1" when I use a phone.

OK, exceptions: Emergency numbers, medical calls. Otherwise . . . . that's it.

Ditto road signs, wanna navigate, learn to Habla.


Besides alllllll that: We graducate kids from school every day - ok, US Born and bred kids - that cannot use the English language properly . . . can't spell, can't speak, but we declare them "educated". Why do we want to complicate this with an additional language. Get the English right FIRST.

i) Tend to agree, there must be a universal first language in any country.
ii) However, the Americans who hold this conviction most vehemently tend to be the same ones who are most vexed with other countries following the same approach on their own soil: When they visit as tourists, they seem to think, "I'm American, speak English!"

What's 'good for the goose, is good for the gander.'  Smile
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 4292
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:57 am

Quoting LH423 (Reply 32):
The US should offer free/deeply discounted rates for immigrants to take language classes, and I do believe that immigrant students should be given a grace period of 1-2 years of immersion where they are taught in both English and Spanish (or insert predominant immigrant language of the school district here). The idea of sink-or-swim isn't always the right approach, especially when we're talking about someone's education.

In Oz we have the Adult Migrant Education Program which is available free to all immigrants from non english speaking countries. It is basically "English speaking/reading for the Workplace". It has had a pretty good result.

Children are a bit different. We have ESL(English as a second Language) support for migrant children in our schools. They undergo an intensive six(?) week course and are then placed in ordinary schools, but have an ESL support teacher to help.

While not perfect the system does seem to have merit and perhaps worth thinking about in your sitution.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
ozglobal
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Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 7:33 am

RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Thread starter):
Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.....

I'm going to need a 'bilingual education' just to pronounce his name.....
When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
 
RichPhitzwell
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:19 am

RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:10 am

I wish my school had a mandatory second language taught. Knowing a second language would be highly beneficial for anyone. Hell, If I had a choice I would have learned as many common languages as possible.

Problem is, I have no idea what language I would want to have forced on me, Spanish, French, Mandarin....

Back to the thread starter, having electronic documents in another language doesn't cost much, having printed copies does. I'm not against having multiple language documents as long as they are accurate. Even if someone speaks proper english, they may not be able to fully understand written legal terms. Much abuse can come of forcing english only documents.
Nonav.com kinda like Whiners except the lights are on and the pimps been paid
 
Blackbird
Posts: 3384
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RE: Abolish Bilingual Education, Gingrich Urges

Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:33 am

I think Gingrich is a dangerous man if he gets into the White House. One of the things he wants to do is pretty much control and regulate the internet to stomp out any political dissidents.

Andrea Kent

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