Blackbird
Topic Author
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 10:48 am

New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:45 am

Since I don't have the particular URL for the site at this moment, I will claim that this is just an opinion and such to avoid having to deal with ANCFlyer-- but we obviously know that I'm not making this up m'kay?

I'm posting this in Non-Aviation and not in Military since it may be used by Law Enforcement Groups, which are not Military.

As an interesting note, there's a new ultra-low frequency radar system that can see through virtually anything, costs a couple of hundred bucks and is in use by the US Government-- I do worry that they will do exactly what I wrote-- scan everybody's house, then if they find anything incriminating, send a tip to the DA's office who gets a warrant and finds the item. Granted the person shouldn't be keeping anything incriminating in their house *BUT* the government isn't supposed to randomly search people's houses. There's an expectation of privacy, and there are laws limiting unreasonable search and seizures (And trust me, if our Founding Fathers knew how cameras, and radar, and sensor technology could be used to invade the privacy of others, they would have put elaborate restrictions on their use)

Andrea Kent

[Edited 2007-04-02 04:46:56]
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:00 pm

Source?

Did you invent this in your own mind - make your opinion?

Where did you come across such information?

There is something called BackScatter radar. It's quite effective, and old technology, at least a decade. Certainly you're not just finding this out?

There's no way - no way - I believe you just dreamed this up.

You heard if form somewhere. You read it on some web site.

Call me crazy, as opposed to an Anal Bastard, but I simply can't believe this popped into your head.

Source is required.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:08 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
(And trust me, if our Founding Fathers knew how cameras, and radar, and sensor technology could be used to invade the privacy of others, they would have put elaborate restrictions on their use)

lol... you knew them?

Perhaps you should fix your age on your profile!

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
MaidensGator
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:02 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:12 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
As an interesting note, there's a new ultra-low frequency radar system that can see through virtually anything, costs a couple of hundred bucks and is in use by the US Government-- I do worry that they will do exactly what I wrote-- scan everybody's house, then if they find anything incriminating, send a tip to the DA's office who gets a warrant and finds the item.

If it only costs a couple hundred bucks I want one to help me find stuff in the storage area that used to be my garage....
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:39 pm

Is this it?



 Smile
I lift things up and put them down.
 
Mir
Posts: 19107
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:03 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
lol... you knew them?

Perhaps you should fix your age on your profile!

The tinfoil hat doubles as a time machine, apparently.  Smile

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:10 pm

I found a schematic of this new technology online.

"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
itsjustme
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:16 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Let the games begin boys! What was that quote from Renaissance Man? "Too easy drill sergeant!".
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:19 pm

Pigeon spies.

Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
diamond
Posts: 3000
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 8:01 am

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:20 pm

ANC, you seriously need some time off.  Smile


Google is our friend.





Through-wall vision technology promises a new edge for security and emergency personnel



X-ray specs could change the rules in hostage, terrorist, urban warfare, earthquake and rescue situations

Cambridge Consultants Ltd (CCL) has successfully demonstrated a radical new type of radar technology that can ‘see through walls’. The low frequency radar has the ability to detect the location and movement of people inside buildings, or simply breathing beneath rubble.

A unique detection technology can provide plan and elevation views of internal spaces, in a form which is optimized for portability. CCL now plans to turn its proof-of-concept demonstrator into products for military personnel and emergency services in situations such as sieges, urban warfare, fire and rescue . . .


http://www.cambridgeconsultants.com/news_pr90.shtml
Blank.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:30 pm

Quoting Diamond (Reply 9):
ANC, you seriously need some time off.

This particular device may be new, but the technology isn't.


And the TO makes it sounds as though we'll be seeing people through walls, and spying into houses, etc.

Typical Black Painted Helicopters/Darkened Chevy Caprices conspiracy theorist garbage.

I just got back form Vegas! Plenty of time off!

I'm off to work in the morning, firing up the Old Caprice and driving over the secret helipad  silly 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:33 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
And the TO makes it sounds as though we'll be seeing people through walls, and spying into houses, etc.

OK, maybe I've had too much Johnnie Walker Blue tonight but, what does "TO" mean?
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:38 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 11):
TO"

Thread Opener

 drunk 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:44 pm

[quote=ANCFlyer,reply=12]Thread Opener

Thanks buddy.  drunk ? OK, perhaps.
 
IAH777
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:55 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:36 pm

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 4):
Is this it?

Very close, but....

 
graphic
Posts: 1293
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:41 am

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:48 pm

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 14):

Haven't you heard, masturbation IS terrorism! DUH!

Every time you blow your load down the shower drain, you've eliminated the potential for 400 million clone warriors!
Demand Media fails at life
 
IAH777
Posts: 2810
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:51 pm

Quoting Graphic (Reply 15):
Haven't you heard, masturbation IS terrorism!

That's what my Young Methodists class taught me, too!
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:53 pm

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 16):
That's what my Young Methodists class taught me, too!

I thought I knew you. You were the guy sitting across from me, cheating off my paper!
 
IAH777
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:55 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:02 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
I thought I knew you.

I'll be damned. I always meant to ask you what you and Bill the Janitor did in your private "spiritual meetings" in the broom closet.  scratchchin 
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:28 pm

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 18):
I'll be damned. I always meant to ask you what you and Bill the Janitor did in your private "spiritual meetings" in the broom closet.

Bitch! That was YOU pounding on the door?
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:17 pm

What BB is forgetting is that it is illegal to look into private residences without a warrant. While she does state...

Quoting Blackbird (Thread starter):
Granted the person shouldn't be keeping anything incriminating in their house *BUT* the government isn't supposed to randomly search people's houses. There's an expectation of privacy, and there are laws limiting unreasonable search and seizures (And trust me, if our Founding Fathers knew how cameras, and radar, and sensor technology could be used to invade the privacy of others, they would have put elaborate restrictions on their use)

But remember BB, that congress and the Supreme Court has consistently held up the principles of private rights.

A report by Glenn Fine, inspector-general of the Justice Department, found that the FBI circumvented the legal restrictions on the use of the letters by obtaining telephone records from three unnamed telecommunications carriers without first getting required legal permission and that the FBI routinely sought out e-mail records improperly.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17543028/

So while the executive branch stepped out of line, the judicial and legislative caught the error and called them on it. That's the great thing about the US government, checks and balances. If these letters were caught, what makes you think that any court would uphold illegaly obtained evidence? They wouldn't. Do you ever congratulate the US government for working as it should, or are you already looking for new complaints from the pundits on proteleriat.com?
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
Go3Team
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:55 pm

Yay Pudding!
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:09 pm

The laws of physics stand againt it. If you use electromagnetic waves of a frequency which is so low that it can pass through walls, the radar equipment will NOT have the resolution to depict whatever you are looking for.
The maximum resolution is the wavelength. To pass through walls, with a reasonable backscatter, the waves will have to be in the meter range. Any object smaller than a meter will not be resolved. Shorter waves will be absorbed by the material of the walls.
Also, it would be quite easy to shield a building: Just cover the inside of a room with metal foil (including windows, though there a metal screen will work).

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:28 pm

Wow.....


just wow! I can't believe that....

seriously....



where's the twilight zone music?
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Go3Team
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:32 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 23):
where's the twilight zone music?

I hear it, don't you? My new tin foil hat has built in ear buds.
Yay Pudding!
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:39 pm

I wonder what's going to happen when the Ghana police scan Sean's anal butt plug?
This space intentionally left blank
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting Graphic (Reply 15):
Haven't you heard, masturbation IS terrorism! DUH!

So that's why Abdel Rahman Omar was blind!!
I lift things up and put them down.
 
Blackbird
Topic Author
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 10:48 am

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:48 pm

This is precisely what I'm talking about. Imagine if the government/local law enforcement, etc, put these devices in a way so that they could spy on entire blocks and positioned them all over the place

They could spy on every single house, and whenever they found something incriminating-- they phone in an anonymous tip and the DA gets a warrant, they go in and make the arrest. The warrant would theoretically be illegal since they used illegal means to get the information that lead to the warrant, but how would you prove it? If you said "the cops are using this radar that can see through walls and identify stuff and they're doing this scheme where they find the goods then phone in an anonymous tip so they don't have to provide their names and get a warrant and carry out the search invetibly finding the goods" -- they'd call you raving lunatic. But the technology could be used for the purposes I described and technically while illegal would be too difficult to prove. It is just as morally repugnant as breaking into every persons house while they're not there, looking through everything with the aim of finding an incriminating piece of evidence, then when they find one they call the DA, get out of there, wait for the warrant, and then go in and find the piece "magically" and arrest the guy-- which by the way is illegal and if proven the evidence would be thrown out. This however couldn't be proven!

AV Kent

Quote:
Through-wall vision technology promises a new edge for security and emergency personnel

X-ray specs could change the rules in hostage, terrorist, urban warfare, earthquake and rescue situations

Cambridge Consultants Ltd (CCL) has successfully demonstrated a radical new type of radar technology that can ‘see through walls’. The low frequency radar has the ability to detect the location and movement of people inside buildings, or simply breathing beneath rubble.

A unique detection technology can provide plan and elevation views of internal spaces, in a form which is optimized for portability. CCL now plans to turn its proof-of-concept demonstrator into products for military personnel and emergency services in situations such as sieges, urban warfare, fire and rescue . . .


http://www.cambridgeconsultants.com/...shtml
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Fri Apr 06, 2007 11:52 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 27):

 sarcastic 

Yeah, and the silent Blackhawks, and darkened Chevy's will show up to drag you away . . . . erase all evidence that you ever existed . . . . never to be heard from again . . . .

They'll put you with all the passengers off the AA and UA flights being held hostage by the US Government after 9/11 too. So you can be one big happy family.

 sarcastic 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
srbmod
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:07 am





Quoting Graphic (Reply 15):
Haven't you heard, masturbation IS terrorism! DUH!

Then does that make A.net the world's largest terror cell?  duck 
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:15 am

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 27):
They could spy on every single house...

This is why I've lined the walls of my place with tin foil. They can't see a thing I'm doing with my Meth lab or my child sex slave ring.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
halls120
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:39 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
There is something called BackScatter radar. It's quite effective, and old technology, at least a decade

backscatter can't see through walls. At least not the version we currently have deployed along our three coasts.

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 27):
They could spy on every single house, and whenever they found something incriminating-- they phone in an anonymous tip and the DA gets a warrant, they go in and make the arrest.

You obviously have no clue about what it takes to get a search warrant.

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 27):
If you said "the cops are using this radar that can see through walls and identify stuff and they're doing this scheme where they find the goods then phone in an anonymous tip so they don't have to provide their names and get a warrant and carry out the search invetibly finding the goods" -- they'd call you raving lunatic.

Sorry, but the police already have a SC case that is virtually on point. In Kyllo vs. United States, the issue at bar was whether a search occurred when the police used a thermal-imaging device on a house to detect heat emanations associated with high-powered marijuana-growing lamps. In concluding that using the device was a search, the Court stressed that the "Government [may not] us[e] a device ... to explore details of the home that would previously have been unknowable without physical intrusion." 533 U.S., at 40, 121 S.Ct. 2038.

Sorry, but this is really a non-issue.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Blackbird
Topic Author
Posts: 3384
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Sat Apr 07, 2007 8:40 am

I doubt foil would deflect such a signal.

Either way, I just worry how sometimes surveilance technology can be misused. Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but while most people see 10 advantages, I can see a hundred ways how it could be used to violate people's privacy.

Call me old fasioned, but I like the idea that the government shouldn't be allowed to carry out unnecessary and unwarranted search and seizures.

Andrea Kent
 
IAH777
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:55 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Sat Apr 07, 2007 9:34 am

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 32):

I find a collander shell provides that extra level of protection from G(overnment)-rays. But it has to be stainless steel. Plastic ones let the G-waves right through. If the Feds, aliens, whomever wants to use secret ray guns to watch me in my house, they're welcome to do so. They'll see me online with you dolts, taking a whiz, doing body-builder poses in the mirror, etc. BTW, y'know how I detect G-wave transmitter vans? I carry a burrito in my pocket. When it gets warm (warmer than it is normally while squished between my junk and my thigh), I know I'm near one. And when they're done watching me with G-waves, I hear a *ding!* to let me know its safe to start wanking with my Semtex vest again.

Dearest Blackbird, if its so easy to get a warrant based on anonymous mystery waves, how come I can't get the DA to accept the simplest of charges with solid evidence?
 
Blackbird
Topic Author
Posts: 3384
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RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:15 am

Get outta here IAH777

Andrea Kent
Pi is approximately equal to 3.14159265358973846264338... (I put all this in so I would get around the minimum text requirement which won't let me post the one line of text I wanted to post)
 
itsjustme
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Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:30 am

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 34):
Get outta here IAH777

That's not very neighborly.

Quoting IAH777 (Reply 33):
Dearest Blackbird, if its so easy to get a warrant based on anonymous mystery waves, how come I can't get the DA to accept the simplest of charges with solid evidence?

I just use "x-ray vision" as my pc to get a warrant. Works like a champ.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Sat Apr 07, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 35):
I just use "x-ray vision" as my pc to get a warrant. Works like a champ.

I should give that one a shot.

I've been trying the Fairy on the Shoulder excuse a lot lately. Doesn't seem to work so well.... the judge can't seem to see the fairy like I do.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
IAH777
Posts: 2810
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:55 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 34):
Get outta here IAH777

Gladly. Wading through all this bullshit will void my warranty.
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: New Type Of Surveillance Radar

Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:50 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 31):
You obviously have no clue about what it takes to get a search warrant.

Conspiracy theorists have never been known to pay attention to such little details...
And of course procedures can be changed.
Anyway, if the "government" can see everything anyway from across the street with their superduper secret spyray they no longer need a warrant, do they?  Wink

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 22):
The laws of physics stand againt it. If you use electromagnetic waves of a frequency which is so low that it can pass through walls, the radar equipment will NOT have the resolution to depict whatever you are looking for.
The maximum resolution is the wavelength. To pass through walls, with a reasonable backscatter, the waves will have to be in the meter range. Any object smaller than a meter will not be resolved. Shorter waves will be absorbed by the material of the walls.

You beat me to it. But did the truth or science ever stop conspiracy theorists from thinking up juicy stories? They'll just claim that "the government" doesn't want you to know they can do it so they changed all the scientific textbooks and disappear all people who know better.

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 32):
Either way, I just worry how sometimes surveilance technology can be misused. Maybe I'm just pessimistic, but while most people see 10 advantages, I can see a hundred ways how it could be used to violate people's privacy.

Same here, but I do try to keep in touch with reality.
This technique is useless for the designated purpose, therefore not a threat.
It might be able to detect whether there are people inside that building, and with crossbearing even approximately where they are, but that's about it.
They won't be able to find out WHO is in there, or what they're doing.

For that you'd need to have every person on the planet implanted with an active long range RFID chip, which would give you a precise reading on who is where from a distance.
Problem of course is that those devices are expensive, could be surgically removed, and have a very limited lifespan (the batteries run out quickly as the range increases).
Passive RFID chips don't have the range required for a purpose like this.
I wish I were flying

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