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KaiGywer
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Global Warming...yeah Right!

Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:00 pm

So a couple of weeks ago, we set a record high with 79 deg in March....today...it's snowing!!

This is ridiculous!

Crazy weather where you're at?
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
PAHS200
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:07 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Thread starter):
Crazy weather where you're at?

it was mid 70's about 2 weeks ago but for the last week or so it be in the mid 30 and a snow shower now-and-then.

where is global warming when you need it.
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:12 pm

Yeah, we actually topped freakin' 85 degrees in early March and over Easter weekend we got a damn snow shower! Crazy, crazy stuff.

And I live in the mountains!  Confused
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
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sebolino
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting PAHS200 (Reply 1):
where is global warming when you need it.

You don't need it.
Global warming is about climate, not everyday weather (which may become more and more bizarre).
 
FDXmech
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 3):
Global warming is about climate, not everyday weather

Trouble is when you have a warm spell in January it's global warming. So says the media. And funny that global warming experts don't dispel this saying it's everyday weather and not climate. Of course when the temps take a nosedive they're quick to point out that THIS is just local weather. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I am thoroughly convinced manmade global warming is a manmade farce.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
PAHS200
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 4):

Trouble is when you have a warm spell in January it's global warming. So says the media. And funny that global warming experts don't dispel this saying it's everyday weather and not climate. Of course when the temps take a nosedive they're quick to point out that THIS is just local weather. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I am thoroughly convinced manmade global warming is a manmade farce.

100% agree
 
Klaus
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 4):
And funny that global warming experts don't dispel this saying it's everyday weather and not climate.

They do.

Whether your local news outlet bothers to report it is another question, and whether you're ready to actually realize it if they do is yet another again.
 
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sebolino
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 4):
Trouble is when you have a warm spell in January it's global warming. So says the media. And funny that global warming experts don't dispel this saying it's everyday weather and not climate.

Well, as I understand it, the climate change is an increase of the average temperature, which can explain a hot winter.
But when I say it's not everyday weather, it means that we will still have cold days, but perhaps less cold days that we were used to.

So a warm January can be explained by the global warming which deals with average temperatures, but a quick change in temperature is not related to the climate, but to some "local" weather conditions, existing whatever the climate is.

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 4):
I am thoroughly convinced manmade global warming is a manmade farce.

You should ask the polar ice if it's a farce which make it become much thinner ...
 
oli80
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 4):
So says the media.

Enough said.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 7):
You should ask the polar ice if it's a farce which make it become much thinner ...

But this could be a natural cycle, and not man-made. I think that's the point FDXMECH was trying to make
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
oli80
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:40 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 9):
But this could be a natural cycle, and not man-made

Find me one scientist who claims there isn't a natural cycle (ice-ages). The rate of change is what is important - and the rate of change is occurring too rapidly for it to be natural.
 
Evan767
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:52 am

What's wrong with global warming? I hate the cold! Hooray for global warming.
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
Klaus
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:04 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 9):
But this could be a natural cycle, and not man-made.

The scientists who actually do research in the field agree that it cannot be a purely natural cycle. Anthropogenic effects are beyond any reasonable doubt at least contributing to it, if not dominating it. The exact extent of human influence is still under research, but the massive man-made increase of the CO2 level in the atmosphere (among other artificial influences) is an obvious contributor.

Saving fossile resources and restraining waste and emissions is very obviously a necessity even independently of climate change, but it seems complacency has no bounds at all.
 
PAHS200
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:06 am

also whats the margin of error on reporting temps.

what i mean is: the avg. yearly temp is based on 1000s of reporting places all over the world and with so many reporting and the rise in yearly world temps only going up point tenths of a degree could it be possible that a reporting places(s) could have sent a wrong number to the database and that would set the temp up higher?

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 11):
What's wrong with global warming? I hate the cold! Hooray for global warming.

2nd that
 
Klaus
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting PAHS200 (Reply 13):
also whats the margin of error on reporting temps.

As long as the sensors are properly calibrated, you can get decent long-term data and relative trends for each of the measurement points. In addition to that, satellites like the european Envisat make it possible to extract global and rather accurate temperature readings from the entire surface of the earth, whether populated or not.
 
Mir
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:24 am

Quoting Evan767 (Reply 11):
What's wrong with global warming? I hate the cold! Hooray for global warming.

Hooray for rising sea levels then, affecting the cities where most wealth in the world is concentrated? Hooray for reduced fertility of croplands? Hooray for desertification?  crazy 

Of course it won't seriously affect us in our lifetime, so why should we bother taking the ounce of prevention?  Yeah sure

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Go3Team
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:08 am

Well, from what I've seen in some movies is... The areas north and south of 30º will be frozen in an artic wasteland, and kill off enough population to ease the over populating that people seem to go on and on about. After all this happens, the air will be clean, and pure. The evil US will have to immigrate to Mexico to survive. Seems like this is a win - win situation for the rest of the world.










How about putting all your efforts to cleaning up dirtier places. Whatever happened to all this talk about the end of the world hole in the ozone over Antarctica? Smog? I haven't seen much of that in years.
Yay Pudding!
 
andessmf
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:15 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
Hooray for rising sea levels then

Bering Land Bridge, anyone?

"The Bering land bridge, also known as Beringia, was a land bridge roughly 1,000 miles (1,600 km) north to south at its greatest extent, which joined present-day Alaska and eastern Siberia at various times during the Pleistocene ice ages."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_land_bridge

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
Hooray for reduced fertility of croplands?

Warmer climate will cause less crops, or do most crops grow in cold weather?

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
Hooray for desertification?

Sahara been recently created?

"The climate of the Sahara has undergone enormous variation between wet and dry over the last few hundred thousand years. During the last ice age, the Sahara was bigger than it is today, extending south beyond its current boundaries.[1] The end of the ice age brought wetter times to the Sahara, from about 8000 BC to 6000 BC, perhaps due to low pressure areas over the collapsing ice sheets to the north.

Once the ice sheets were gone, the northern part of the Sahara dried out. However, not long after the end of the ice sheets, the monsoon which currently brings rain to the Sahara came further north and counteracted the drying trend in the southern Sahara. The monsoon in Africa (and elsewhere) is due to heating during the summer. Air over land becomes warmer and rises, pulling in cool wet air from the ocean. This causes rain. Paradoxically, the Sahara was wetter when it received more solar insulation in the summer. In turn, changes in solar insulation are caused by changes in the Earth's orbital parameters."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahara

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
Of course it won't seriously affect us in our lifetime, so why should we bother taking the ounce of prevention?

Could we have prevented or created any of these well documented RECENT climatic catastrophes?
 
galapagapop
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:20 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):

Hooray for rising sea levels then, affecting the cities where most wealth in the world is concentrated? Hooray for reduced fertility of croplands? Hooray for desertification? crazy

Of course it won't seriously affect us in our lifetime, so why should we bother taking the ounce of prevention? Yeah sure

-Mir

Oh mi oh my, the sea is 6 inches closer to our mansions, whatever shall we do? Could it possible be concieved land deformation from those same mansion are possible responsible by building manmade boundaries where the sea would normally go? Such as removal of marshlands, large patches of beachgrass, and such that would absorb such water, naturally?(But they I guess they can't build their Mcmansion, that's a shame). Could that be concievable, guess that's answered in the second part ofyour the first phrase. By all means this doesn't mean there isn't more water in the ocean, I won't dispute that, but coastal effects would be minimal at best if we didn't feel the need to put our property above the natural way of things. Fertility of croplands and desertification is again a natural progression of things in many areas, and is also the result of man's pilfering of those areas. Look in Southern Cal, Arizona, or Las Vegas, water is being depleted and redirected from farther and farther away to feed the population explosion being seen in those areas. Not impacting desertification, becuase it's still CO2 right? How about California's programs to "seed" moisture carrying clouds with a silver compound to help make the water droplets heavier and thus rain? But what about the Rockies where it should naturally go?(Notice the large drops in the overall depth of Colorado River? That is also being diverted for use to fill pools?) Again that's answered by in your first phrase through the sheer importance is to protect the rich. Or how about the depletion of many of the natural grasslands throughout the West and Midwest with developments, farming, and over forestation through prevention of forest fires? Surely we have an impact on this Earth, but it's just plain ignorant, no, downright retarded, to actually believe this is happening mainly becuase of increased CO2 production, which, although defying science, seems it can only be produced by human kind, namely Oil and Coal companies, the devils idle hands, yes?

Keep the doom and gloom crap in the Old Testament, thank you!
 
FDXmech
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:18 pm

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 7):
You should ask the polar ice if it's a farce which make it become much thinner ...

"It will without doubt have come to your Lordship's knowledge that a considerable change of climate, inexplicable at present to us, must have taken place in the Circumpolar Regions, by which the severity of the cold that has for centuries past enclosed the seas in the high northern latitudes in an impenetrable barrier of ice has been during the last two years, greatly abated.

(This) affords ample proof that new sources of warmth have been opened and give us leave to hope that the Arctic Seas may at this time be more accessible than they have been for centuries past, and that discoveries may now be made in them not only interesting to the advancement of science but also to the future intercourse of mankind and the commerce of distant nations."
President of the Royal Society, London, to the Admiralty, 20th November, 1817 [13]


13] President of the Royal Society, Minutes of Council, Volume 8. pp.149-153, Royal Society, London.
20th November, 1817.
You're only as good as your last departure.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Thread starter):
Crazy weather where you're at?

Yeah... Freakin 30's and snow.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
Whether your local news outlet bothers to report it is another question, and whether you're ready to actually realize it if they do is yet another again.

Yet it's colder here this year than it was last save a short spat of warmer weather. Should I be worried? Kinda late in the year for snow. Maybe we need a climate adjuster. Like a leap year. Maybe all those leap years have caught up with us finally and we're off a month or two. This feel's like March. December felt like November and January most certainly felt like December. Hell, I specifically recall a bad ass blizzard in Denver in November of 1990. Not unlike this years blizzard. Man, that was a fine mess. Yup.. Good old global warming. Mayeb if you folks would quit shouting about global warming there'd be a lot less CO2 going around.

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 7):
So a warm January can be explained by the global warming which deals with average temperatures, but a quick change in temperature is not related to the climate, but to some "local" weather conditions, existing whatever the climate is.

Okay, then what was it in the 70's then when "global cooling" was the issue? Local?

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 7):
You should ask the polar ice if it's a farce which make it become much thinner ...

Remember the Bering Strait? We cause that too? That was before the industrial revolution. Just checking cause it must have been damn cold for people to be walk across it. Oh wait, someone did it again in 2006. We must be cooling off again.

You guys have more holes than swiss cheese. Stinks about as much too.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 14):
As long as the sensors are properly calibrated, you can get decent long-term data and relative trends for each of the measurement points.

So how accurate were the sensors 100 years ago? 1,000? How's about 1 million? A billion? Just perspective gievn the pin-prick of time people have actually had accurate enough equipment to measure the damn temperature much less evaluate the climate.

Quoting Galapagapop (Reply 18):
Keep the doom and gloom crap in the Old Testament, thank you!

Global warming junkies seem to want to bring out biblical. Think about it. We're either billions of years old and this is but a pin-prick of time, or we're only a few thousand years old and we've really jacked things up. They can't have it both ways.

[Edited 2007-04-11 19:08:50]
 
Klaus
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:21 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 20):
Yet it's colder here this year than it was last save a short spat of warmer weather.

A single "strange" season is usually not an indication of anything. A succession of seasons skewed consistently into the same direction (which includes the variability of the weather) can be an indication of climate change, however.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 20):
So how accurate were the sensors 100 years ago? 1,000? How's about 1 million? A billion? Just perspective gievn the pin-prick of time people have actually had accurate enough equipment to measure the damn temperature much less evaluate the climate.

The relative accuracy of earlier thermometers is known within a certain range; Longer-term temperature developments can be read from physical, geological and biological history as preserved in various deposits. Depending on the indicator, those readings can reach back millions, even billions of years and still deliver relevant data.

Measurement errors must be and are accounted for, which is why aggregate conclusions always come with a certain margin of error as well.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 20):
Global warming junkies seem to want to bring out biblical. Think about it. We're either billions of years old and this is but a pin-prick of time, or we're only a few thousand years old and we've really jacked things up. They can't have it both ways.

What are you talking about? It is well known that there have been many gradual developments in climate but also near-instant reversals in natural history when certain tipping points had been reached. Unfortunately we're by now powerful enough to rock the boat with our industrialized civilization and our massive population numbers, so it is quite conceivable and entirely consistent to expect the possibility of yet another reversal on the path we're going right now.
 
pelican
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:41 am

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 19):
FDXMECH

And what do you want to say with your quote? That periods of regional or global cooling and warming happened before? Nobody in his right mind denies that our climate is variable. The point is that such a rapid change as we see now is something new and can't be related to natural causes. Your quote dates back to a time when a longer period with cool temperatures known as little the "Little Ice Age" came slowly (and not without some further minima) to its end.
http://www.answers.com/topic/little-ice-age




pelican
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Thread starter):
Crazy weather where you're at?

Not crazy, just raining and cloudy for the last week or so here in the "sunny" Algarve, which has hugely p'd off the tourists here on Easter break from UK/Ireland/Germany/Clogland etc. Apparently the weather back home is rather nice!
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:45 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
A single "strange" season is usually not an indication of anything. A succession of seasons skewed consistently into the same direction (which includes the variability of the weather) can be an indication of climate change, however.

Well, the weather hasn't changed here at all my friend. I was mocking you people with my last post to point out your hysterics. You people take this crap far too seriously and in about 10-15 years you're going to be left holding a back of shit.
 
WestJetYQQ
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:47 am

The weather seems about average in Canada's West Coast so far this spring. It did snow WAY more than usual all over western Canada this Winter.
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:21 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Thread starter):
This is ridiculous!

 checkmark  Good thread  thumbsup  .

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 4):
Trouble is when you have a warm spell in January it's global warming. So says the media. And funny that global warming experts don't dispel this saying it's everyday weather and not climate.

 checkmark 

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 4):
You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 checkmark 

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 4):
I am thoroughly convinced manmade global warming is a manmade farce.

 thumbsup  Good post.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
A single "strange" season is usually not an indication of anything.

 sarcastic  Is that closest we can expect you to get to the truth of the matter?

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 24):

 laughing 

-R
Living the American Dream
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:50 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 26):
Is that closest we can expect you to get to the truth of the matter?

Not entirely sure what you mean by this, but if you look up the definitions of "climate" and "weather," he is absolutely correct.

Weather: the state of the atmosphere with respect to wind, temperature, cloudiness, moisture, pressure, etc.

Climate: the composite or generally prevailing weather conditions of a region, as temperature, air pressure, humidity, precipitation, sunshine, cloudiness, and winds, throughout the year, averaged over a series of years.


Weather is responsible for the cold temperatures in the US currently, and depending on your outlook, El Niño and La Niña events can even be construed as weather, when looking on the macro scale. These sorts of events influence the seasons, so it is entirely possible to have an isolated cold(er) season, and still be warming climatically speaking. When speaking over terms of thousands of years, isolated seasons/years are climatically irrelevant. As Klaus correctly mentioned, they can be a sign of climate change.

As others have argued, no one with any knowledge on the subject will deny that the Earth goes through warm and cool trends over periods of hundreds and/or thousands of years, caused by the output of the Sun and other things. The important thing to note is the correlation between the increasing CO2 and temperature levels, and the beginning of industrialization. It is these anthropogenic changes that have scientists concerned. It is not that the changes are currently out of plausible ranges, scientifically speaking, but it is that the types of temperature and CO2 changes we've seen in the last 150 years at the rate they've been increasing that has scientists rightfully concerned.

It is without a doubt the sun is currently going through a warm period, as shown on this graph, but you also see these fluctuations occur over periods of a couple hundred years. This warm solar period combined with the dramatic increase in CO2 output, among other anthropogenic factors, since the Industrial Revolution are very much responsible for the increasing global temperatures.

The debate among relevant scientists has shifted more from "Is Global Warming Happening?" to "How much are humans affecting Global Warming?" The jury is still out on this, however many signs point to human activity being a leading, if not the leading factor.

This is an inexact science, and much of it is based on trends/periods. While many factors can affect our everyday weather, and even, as I said earlier, seasons and even years, it is certainly naive to think that one contrasting day/season/year disproves a scientific theory that is based on decades/centuries/millinnia.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
andessmf
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:47 pm

May I remind you all of a few things:

1. CO2 is used by plant matter in photosynthesis.

2. Kyoto allowed the use of Carbon sinks as a form of carbon offset.

"A carbon dioxide (CO2) sink is a carbon reservoir that is increasing in size, and is the opposite of a carbon "source". The main natural sinks are (1) the oceans and (2) plants and other organisms that use photosynthesis to remove carbon from the atmosphere by incorporating it into biomass"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_sink

3. CO2 is required by plant matter to grow, and oxygen is released as a product.
 
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sebolino
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:09 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 9):
But this could be a natural cycle, and not man-made. I think that's the point FDXMECH was trying to make

It could be you're right ... if if it was not so fast. We know that there are cycles, but extremely slow. In a few years, the ice as significantly disappeared. It can't be one of these cycles.
 
pelican
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:19 pm

Quoting BHXFAOTIPYYC (Reply 23):
which has hugely p'd off the tourists here on Easter break from UK/Ireland/Germany/Clogland etc. Apparently the weather back home is rather nice!

Too nice. We haven't had rain for the last 4 weeks and that in a time of the year which is known for it's variability. Needlessly to say that the risk of forest fires is already very high... in April!

pelican
 
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sebolino
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:20 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 20):
Okay, then what was it in the 70's then when "global cooling" was the issue? Local?

You're confused with causes and consequences. I never said that a hot winter was a proof of global warming, but could be explained by it.
What's important to see, is the exponential rise of temperatures for 40 years (in average !!). It's not a dream, it's now widely admitted, even by first non-believers scientists (except the scientists paid by Texaco and Bush).

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 20):
You guys have more holes than swiss cheese. Stinks about as much too.

And you are at the contrary, a very polite and open minded person, wit whom it's nice to talk. Or perhaps you will be one day.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 24):
in about 10-15 years you're going to be left holding a back of shit.

I really hope so, but I suspect you will have more problems than me in 15 years, with your country's economy based entirely on cheap oil.
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:29 pm

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 31):
I really hope so, but I suspect you will have more problems than me in 15 years, with your country's economy based entirely on cheap oil.

Our economy is built on ideas, not cheap oil. It's what keeps us from becoming government dependent. If you want to be beholden to this pathetic attempt at global control so be it. I'm not buying and you people are lame.

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 31):
You're confused with causes and consequences.

You're the one that's confused. You see the US and China as your greatest economic threats. What better way to eliminate the threat (or at least slow down the threat) as your economy falters for lack of land and labor resources and excessive government capital influence in your major industries, then to tie their hands with excessive environmental control ?

You people have lost your freakin' minds over this and that will be your downfall.

Besides, the largest group fo baby-boomers is going to start dropping like flies reducing the impact. Complain to a nation that has a growth problem.

[Edited 2007-04-12 13:01:25]
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:29 pm

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 29):
It can't be one of these cycles.

It could very well be, or it could not be. We will never know as there is no way we can measure anything without factoring in human influence, and from old times, we don't have accurate enough data to make a conclusion.

Scientists can have theories and be close, or they could be way off. Just one of those things that can never be proven, just like evolution vs. intelligent design can never be proven either.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:39 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 32):
Our economy is built on ideas, not cheap oil. It's what keeps us from becoming government dependent. If you want to be beholden to this pathetic attempt at global control so be it. I'm not buying and you people are lame.

Well, while it may not be BUILT per sé, our economy is certainly shaped abd dependant on having cheap oil. An increase in oil prices creates abundant cost-push inflation, which is of course bad for the US economy.

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:33 pm

This remark of yours sums up the whole idea.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 27):
This is an inexact science

Because proponents of global warming are so sure of their findings, the burden of proof is on said proponents to show the certainty of global warming, not vice-versa.

I'm waiting for Klaus or some other proponent of global warming to address (rather than ignorantly dismiss) the (more than a few) dissenters of the IPCC findings. The mere fact that there is dissention among their ranks is evidence of your remark - all of this conjecture surrounds an inexact science.

Better yet, I'm waiting for Klown to yet again amaze us with his superfluous use of verbiage  sarcastic  .

-R
Living the American Dream
 
FDXmech
Posts: 3219
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:35 pm

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 29):
It could be you're right ... if if it was not so fast. We know that there are cycles, but extremely slow. In a few years, the ice as significantly disappeared. It can't be one of these cycles.

The polar ice thickness is heavily dependant on many variables, sub-surface water temps and current speed being a primary factor. This is very cyclic. The US Navy has documented cases during 1958-59 where their submarines found open stretches of water and thin ice near the north pole.

http://www.john-daly.com/polar/arctic.htm

But an important tool of greenhouse extollers is this sense that polar ice is a finite entity like a tropical rainforest. Once is gone it's gone forever. Whereas the truth is, polar ice diminishes and reappears in natural cycles.
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mrniji
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 26):
Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 4):
I am thoroughly convinced manmade global warming is a manmade farce.

thumbsup Good post.

I agree.. the expansive and well-routed researchers researching on global warming, climate change, are all idiots.. we should rather listen to you guys, you seem to have the knowledge and convincing arguments...  Cool

I used to work in this field the last year. The times to come, not now, but let's say the next 50 years, will be horrible.. only then will people realize what humans have done (my great nation - along with this bulkhead president - pollutes the planet in an irresponsible extent, China is coming.....). Then, everyone will say again: "How stupid were we? Had we...."... and capital punishments on impairing the environment will be imposed, that are close to murderer. As Gandhi has said: "The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed."

This is what happens when uncontrolled growth, competition and unsustainable development prevail.... thanks to the leading paradigm...
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
FDXmech
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:57 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 37):
I agree.. the expansive and well-routed researchers researching on global warming, climate change, are all idiots..

I think hyperbole beneith you. Do expansive and well-routed researchers disputing the former set of researchers rate as idiots?
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sebolino
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:57 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 32):
Our economy is built on ideas, not cheap oil.

Great news ! Triple the price of crude oil and you will see how efficient your ideas are.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 32):
You're the one that's confused. You see the US and China as your greatest economic threats.

uh ?
I see ? I didn't know that. Thanx to enlighten me on my own beliefs.
By the way, we were speaking about global warming, what is economic threats from US and China doing here ?
Did you have a beer or 2 lately ?

[Edited 2007-04-12 16:00:30]
 
mrniji
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:00 pm

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 38):
Do expansive and well-routed researchers disputing the former set of researchers rate as idiots?

Did you ever think of independent vs. non-independent research? Of course, you will believe the people who have been "hired" by the Bush Administration to "make favorable case studies"... yeah, yeah... Do you think that tones and tones of CO2 have no influence? Do you think that tones and tones of CH4 leave no influence, HFC23s, other peroxides...? Yeah, the idiots of teh Scientific Council of the UNEP have no idea, eh?
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
jonathan-l
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:03 pm

The Future: Aviation And Climate Change (by Pe@rson Apr 6 2007 in Civil Aviation)

That thread in Civ Av actually has some learned replies.
 
FDXmech
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:05 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 40):
Did you ever think of independent vs. non-independent research? Of course, you will believe the people who have been "hired" by the Bush Administration to "make favorable case studies"... yeah, yeah... Do you think that tones and tones of CO2 have no influence? Do you think that tones and tones of CH4 leave no influence, HFC23s, other peroxides...? Yeah, the idiots of teh Scientific Council of the UNEP have no idea, eh?

I guess that answered my question. "Agree with me or you're corrupt."

[Edited 2007-04-12 16:13:53]
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mrniji
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 42):
Agree with me or you're corrupt.

Great.. great...
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
FDXmech
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 42):
Yeah, the idiots of teh Scientific Council of the UNEP have no idea, eh?

Forgive me Your Excellency. The Popes of the Church of Global Warming are infallable. I now admit my observations, heretical. I bow at the statue of Al Gore.
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allstarflyer
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 40):
Of course, you will believe the people who have been "hired" by the Bush Administration to "make favorable case studies"... yeah, yeah...

Proof? Sources?

-R
Living the American Dream
 
FDXmech
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting Jonathan-l (Reply 41):
That thread in Civ Av actually has some learned replies.

And it guided me to these noteworthy links, thanks.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17997788/site/newsweek/#storyContinued

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...07041102109.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
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jonathan-l
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:46 am

Quoting FDXMECH (Reply 46):
And it guided me to these noteworthy links, thanks

Check out Rampart's posts as well  Wink
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 2972
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:40 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 35):
This remark of yours sums up the whole idea.

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 27):
This is an inexact science

Because proponents of global warming are so sure of their findings, the burden of proof is on said proponents to show the certainty of global warming, not vice-versa.

I'm waiting for Klaus or some other proponent of global warming to address (rather than ignorantly dismiss) the (more than a few) dissenters of the IPCC findings. The mere fact that there is dissention among their ranks is evidence of your remark - all of this conjecture surrounds an inexact science.

Better yet, I'm waiting for Klown to yet again amaze us with his superfluous use of verbiage .

Of course it is an inexact science, and I absolutely agree that the burden of proof is on the proponents of global warming, as it is straying from the status quo. However, anybody who denies that the IPCC is the world's foremost authority on climate change is just being foolish. If the IPCC, says there is cause for concern, I would gladly heed their warnings. Are there dissenters? Yes, of course. As with any concept, there will be. Take a near globally accepted idea: the Holocaust. There are people (in Iran) who don't believe it ever happened. Granted, this is an extreme example, but it goes to show that just because there are dissenters, doesn't make it any less real.

Let me ask you this question, if I may. If global warming really isn't man made, what advantage does any body, such as the IPCC get, for sounding an alarm that they don't really think is necessary? Do they benefit from it? I don't think so. They lose credibility. Does anybody, save for some Green industries, really benefit from a false alarm? It's certainly not like ANYBODY would trade the potentially catastrophic results of the kind of climate change, if true, just to say "I told you so." I would honestly rather be wrong about it, than face what sorts of changes we could potentially see. I think anybody would. So nobody here, by all means I'm willing to be proved wrong (after all, I'm all for an educated discussion  Smile), really benefits from a fabrication of something such as this.

Which brings me to my next point. Even IF global warming isn't currently happening, who's to say it couldn't potentially. Accepted scientific principles like the Greenhouse Effect certainly point to that as greenhouse gasses, such as CO2 increase, it is plausible that that could lead to an increase in temperatures. As more humans populate the Earth, and more countries spend money and resources to industrialize, there will almost certainly be more CO2 being pumped into the atmosphere than there is now, if nothing is done.

There are two main factors in play, as I see it. Economy and Environment. Without either one healthy, it's a problem. So we certainly can't destroy the economy in trying to save the environment, but at the same time, we can't destroy the environment while trying to save the economy. If the environment gets disrupted/destroyed, whatever terminology you care to use, the economy will certainly be negatively impacted. While a shift in energy worldwide could potentially have a negative impact during that period of time, the loss of key factors in the environment would be catastrophic. We can all agree that oil is a finite resource, and that as we use more and more, it will cost more and more, and we, as a gobal society, will at one point or another have to find alternative forms of energy.

What do we do, wait until oil is outrageously expensive to start, or start when POTENTIALLY, there is a crisis on the near horizon? Even if, although I strongly disagree, man made global warming is a farce, alternative forms of energy will be needed, so why put it off?

Scenarios:

If global warming exists, and we do what we can to prepare for it now- Not necessarily a postive outcome, but not negative eitehr

If global warming doesn't exist, and we prepare for it now- Economy short term takes a hit (how big, your guess is as good as mine), but we are prepared for the future, decrease our (as Americans) dependancy on foreign oil, and have begun to protect ourselves against climate change in the future.

If global warming exists, and we do nothing now- POTENTIALLY-dramatic climate change, ice age in Western Europe, catastrophic loss of life, loss of many major economic centers worldwide such as New York and Hong Kong.

If global warming does't exist, and we do nothing now- for the time being, we're ok, but we do create potential problems for future generations with oil and alternative energy sources.

My conclusion: Even if it doesn't exist, there is no reason not to do research, and invest money into alternative forms of energy. But with the hoards of scientific data supporting the case for man made global warming, it makes it all the more important.

Your thoughts/disagreements/assessments?

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
connies4ever
Posts: 3393
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RE: Global Warming...yeah Right!

Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:53 am

Quoting Sebolino (Reply 3):
You don't need it.
Global warming is about climate, not everyday weather (which may become more and more bizarre).



Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 9):
But this could be a natural cycle, and not man-made. I think that's the point FDXMECH was trying to make



Quoting Oli80 (Reply 10):
Find me one scientist who claims there isn't a natural cycle (ice-ages). The rate of change is what is important - and the rate of change is occurring too rapidly for it to be natural.

You're all correct, to some degree.

Sebolino - right on. I've been watching this for about 30 years now and climatologists have pretty much consistently said as the climate changes -- for whatever reason -- weather will become more extreme. Hotter hot days, colder cold ones. More violent storms, etc.

KaiGwyer/Oli80 - right on. There is obviously a natural cycle. However, are we amplifying a natural trend ? I think yes, although I'm not sure we're tipping it over yet. I try to keep an open mind on this, despite the noise from the media. Atmospheric CO2 levels are rising, so are oceanic levels. The latter worries me more, actually. Has the potential to destroy the base of the coeanic mammalian food chain, the krill.

Pelican - the more rapid recent changes _may_ be due to a superposition of natural cycles, like an episodic wave. I tend to think we're affecting things, pushing the cycle, but there are many, many variables and feedback loops in this big ecosystem we have. Modelling it is a difficult proposition, even for supercomputers.
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