tbar220
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Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:29 am



Enjoy
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ManuCH
Crew
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Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:54 am

Luckily I live in Switzerland, it's legal here  duck  ... (no kidding)

OK, I buy most of my music on the iTunes store, and I feel stupid because everybody else seems to download everything for free.
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
andz
Posts: 7626
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Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:24 am

Luckily I don't download muisc.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
LH526
Crew
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Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting Andz (Reply 2):
Luckily I don't download muisc.

I do .. but legaly via iTunes .... what else is there to do if the Album you were looking for years is sold out both on vinyl and on CD and all collectors hold tight to theirs and won't part with them? Bummer!

Mario
LH526
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
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Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:29 am

LOL! That's funny!

Alright, gotta go check on my downloads now.  duck 

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
ebs757
Posts: 618
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RE: Illegal Muisc Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:46 am

No matter what anyone does, its not going to stop. And theres a lot more illegal things than music floating around...
Viva la Vida
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:23 am

If people in the music industry were under paid I would care. But when you see people making millions just for singing a song, it is kind of hard to feel bad for them.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
Klaus
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RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:19 am

Make the legal acquisition as convenient and better in quality than the unlicensed one and the problem will mostly resolve itself.

And it seems EMI has recently begun to understand that (allowing DRM-free high-quality downloads).
 
co777er
Posts: 391
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RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:37 am

For all those Americans out there, according to Section 107 of the Constitution:

Examples of Fair Use include: (you can download music legally )

* Quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment.
* Quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work for illustration or clarification of the author’s observations.
* Reproduction of material for classroom use where the reproduction was unexpected and spontaneous – for example, where an article in the morning’s paper is directly relevant to that day’s class topic.
* Use in a parody of short portions of the work itself.
* A summary of an address or article, which may include quotations of short passages of the copyrighted work.
- source: http://www.copyright.com/ccc/do/viewPage?pageCode=cr10-n#fairuse

So take advantage of your Constitutional rights! Big grin
 
lehpron
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RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:48 am

I've been recording "Promotional" tracks off of the radio for decades, I only DL songs online that DJ's won't let me record when I request them. Solve problems at the source: Play requests!

These days I only DL tv shows cuz they come on when I'm out and I don't own a TiVo or a VCR.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:51 am

You know, if the record companies and music producers would have offered music to be downloaded for a small fee 7 years ago, the problem of downloading illegally would be half as big. But no, they had to "protect" their profits and install anti-piracy software on their CD's (sometimes hidden) when it installs itself on your computer with out you knowing, and make us buy a CD set-up the way they or the artist wants us to, instead of letting us, the consumer, decide what we want to buy. They're (record producers) the one's who have gotten themselves into the financial "crisis" they are in now, not illegal downloaders.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
rlwynn
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RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:21 am

What about this. During my teen years in the 80's I had a record collection of over 500 records. The only way to get them then was to buy them. Which I did. Over the years they migrated to my brother, sister and who knows where else for I moved away. Well, when I look on the "illegal" downloading sites. I try to recollect my collection. I have about 2300 songs in my computer. I have already paid for the songs. The artists has already got my cut. So do I have the right to load into my computer songs I have already paid for?

I think so.
I can drive faster than you
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7204
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 11):
I have already paid for the songs. The artists has already got my cut. So do I have the right to load into my computer songs I have already paid for?

Not according to the record producers.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 11):
The only way to get them then was to buy them. Which I did. Over the years they migrated to my brother, sister and who knows where else for I moved away.

Wouldn't surprise me if passing on albums is "illegal" in the record producers eyes or dreams.

When we were growing up, maybe only half of the cassette's we had were bought, most others were just borrowed from a friend and copied, or borrowed from the library and copied. Was it illegal? Yes. Did everyone do it? Yes. Did it piss off the record producers? Of course. Did we care? No.

Fact is, technology changes, they (the record producers) missed the boat and wanted to play the bully, well know they're getting what they deserve. Personally, I hope they all go belly up real soon.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 5:52 am

I never pay for music , I just go to youtube and record it Big grin
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
DeltaAVL
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Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:15 pm

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:04 am

You know, if the government really thought it was that big of a deal, illegally downloading music wouldn't be that hard to stop. It seems like that one case in New York (I think..) with that young teenage girl getting sued bigtime for downloading music was the only attempt to really stop illegal downloading.

Funny vid though!
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:20 am

Any excuse you make ........... it's still stealing.

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 6):
If people in the music industry were under paid I would care. But when you see people making millions just for singing a song, it is kind of hard to feel bad for them.

Yeah...that's like saying that the guys in charge of the bank who make great money justify the bank robbers.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 7):
Make the legal acquisition as convenient and better in quality than the unlicensed one and the problem will mostly resolve itself.

Oh...so if they made it easier to download then people would stop stealing? Does it make it morally acceptable to steal? Or are you just trying to appease the thieves?

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 10):
They're (record producers) the one's who have gotten themselves into the financial "crisis" they are in now, not illegal downloaders.

Yeah...and the bankers bring robbery on themselves by locking up the money....
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7204
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 15):
Oh...so if they made it easier to download then people would stop stealing?

It wouldn't stop the stealing, but it would help reduce it.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 15):
Oh...so if they made it easier to download then people would stop stealing? Does it make it morally acceptable to steal? Or are you just trying to appease the thieves?

Confusing a transgression of fair use regulations with the act of actually depriving another person or entity of the possession of an object is one of the reasons why people have stopped taking those clowns seriously.

Paying royalties within halfway reasonable circumstances for equally reasonable usage rights is only proper.

But since copying of information is a primary and inherent functionality of any kind of information processing equipment it may look judicially convenient but is thoroughly delusional to equate with an act of burglary or a bank robbery.

Some people are clutching at straws in trying to preserve the "good old times", but get used to it - they're not coming back.

The unwillingness to re-balance the reasonable interests of the artists and the consumers (the content brokerage industry has no extra-legal right to exist, which it constantly keeps forgetting) has given rise to the current situation and the only way forward is to find a new appropriate balance in this relationship.

Distribution is rapidly losing its value in the age of internet content delivery beyond a very low-level service functionality; And If the content brokerage industry isn't needed any more, it will simply shrink to fit its new role or vanish altogether, with few people losing sleep over it.

Gorbatchev once gave good advice to the east-german communist leaders: "Life will punish those who are getting behind the times"

The wall is missed by very few; I doubt the current content industry will fare much better at the rate they're going.

[Edited 2007-04-15 23:47:52]
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
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RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:46 am

If the great new times include the loss of intellectual property rights so that clowns don't have to pay for what they want then it's not that great for anyone who expects to hold on to their property rights.

There is no reason to bargain with the people who begin to steal from you.

Elevated thinking like yours is perhaps the reason that some people in this world believe that it's ok to just take instead of paying the asking rate.

If they don't want to buy it then don't take it.......boycott the goods and hte price comes down without the coercion of the theft.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7204
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 18):
There is no reason to bargain with the people who begin to steal from you.

There's no reason to bargain with people who dictate to you what you should and should not purchase.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 18):
There is no reason to bargain with the people who begin to steal from you.

As soon as a product arose which didn't involve punching the paying customer in the face by forcibly subjecting him or her to abusive, insulting, intrusive or even criminal treatment by the content industry it became spectacularly successful and is still in a rapid expansion: iTunes.

But of course not before the industry did their worst to block or sabotage any convenient and fair way to legally and conveniently buy usage rights for the customer.

Shortsighted rigidity in the face of unstoppable change is usually the downfall of once-powerful empires. And the content industry has done everything to be the next victim of a completely avoidable suicide.


If you have a crappy product and refuse to improve it, somebody ultimately will find a better way. Even if the better product is illegal, that will only slow down inevitable change, not stop it altogether, as much as you might hope it would.

It seems it took an external player to show the industry the way out of their self-created quagmire. Unfortunately the ancient petrified industrial structures aren't fit for survival and will fall by the wayside in either case, but key will always be to offer a good and convincing product for a fair price.

If you've got that, you don't have to worry much about the legal side of things. If you don't, even an army of lawyers can't save you from your customers deserting you.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):

 checkmark 
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
102IAHexpress
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:33 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:28 am

There’s no justification for illegally downloading songs. With yahoo unlimited I can rent as many songs as I want for six dollars a month and play them on a compatible device. Kind of like Netflix; I rent new releases but only buy a film that I must have.
 
Palladium
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2005 11:35 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:30 am

In my humble opinion regarding about illegal or legal downloading music from internet:

I don't or can't find the difference between downloading music from the net and taking your text book or magazines or
books in the library and make photo copy of them in the photocopy machine and to use it for your own needs or in the
class.

Downloading music for me is legal as long as you use it for personal use not to make another copy again and start reproduce and distribute it to make money for your self.

Unfortunately we live in a world (21st century) with a lot of new high technology stuff around.... making things easier for us
to live...from watching movies, listening to musics, chatting, etc etc.... if they want to make it a problem, they should sue the technology that are able to provide us to download and etc2,...not the users.

Blame the technology.
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:31 am

Oh the great debate of our time, to steal or not to steal, that is the question.

I think Phish has the answer, make people PAY to seem them in concert, and allow the recordings to go wherever they want. Sure any asshole can say the have Phish on MP3 or the antiquated CD, but do they have the ability to say they saw Phish in concert?  no 

I say eff the music industry where it breathes. They have been overcharging us for usless crap since the begining of the 90's and it's time to see artist go back to having to earn a living by giving performances in person. Boo effing hoo. Besides, I'd like to see some executives loose their job due to the information age, not just honest working people like me.
This space intentionally left blank
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 22):
There’s no justification for illegally downloading songs.

As "illegaly" already hints at, sort of...!

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 22):
With yahoo unlimited I can rent as many songs as I want for six dollars a month and play them on a compatible device.

...and see it all go up in a puff of virtual smoke once you're missing a payment. Legal? Sure. Good deal? Not from where I'm looking at it.

The music industry had been pushing for this model right from the beginning, never bothering to ask the customers whether they'd actually prefer it. As it turned out when iTunes stepped onto the scene, very few actually did.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 24):
I say eff the music industry where it breathes.

It doesn't actually breathe so much as eerily moan, while laboriously dragging itself forward in longing for people's brains for nourishment, and just occasionally dropping the odd body part in the process...!  mischievous 
 
lehpron
Posts: 6846
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2001 3:42 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 18):
boycott the goods and hte price comes down

Uh, if the impression of lack of market arises due to boycotting, the price of each item goes up because the costs of production are not going to change if you don't buy it. Price goes down when there are more than enough people buying, more than just target market, as the intial need becomes satisfied.

The recording industry is fluid however, there is always need, the price won't come down no matter how many CD's are bought. People treat their music like food or gasoline, they *NEED* it.

Boycotting only works if the industry is small, that way loosing sales actually equates to loosing customers. Bigger industries don't care as they will always have customers, their needs get satisfied and the boycotters miss out on a great product.  Smile

I could be wrong about all this, but this is how I am thinking at this moment.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
102IAHexpress
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:33 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
...and see it all go up in a puff of virtual smoke once you're missing a payment.

Dude, if you miss a six dollar payment one month, then you probably have bigger problems than listening to music.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:35 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 27):
Dude, if you miss a six dollar payment one month, then you probably have bigger problems than listening to music.

Worrying about and maintaining the rather aggressive DRM environment required for this kind of system isn't everybody's cup of tea, especially not through many years and probably several new computer systems. Nor would I relish the thought of a part of my favourite tracks simply self-destructing on a whim, licensing change or just plain screwup of my "music landlords".  

Another factor being that such a "rent-based" system will box you into Windows - no chance ever playing any of your titles anywhere else should you want to switch to MacOS X or Linux any time down the road. People love to bitch about iTunes, but it actually runs consistently on both MacOS X and Windows and it is trivially easy to strip the DRM (as long as there still is any).

[Edited 2007-04-16 01:40:19]
 
102IAHexpress
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:33 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:48 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 28):
Nor would I relish the thought of a part of my favourite tracks simply self-destructing on a whim, licensing change or just plain screwup of my "music landlords".

Those sorts of scare tactics don’t really further our discussion. In any event most people own their favorite tracks.
People seem to be very satisfied renting lots of movies through Netflix and owning a few favorites in their libraries. Don’t see how renting songs is any different.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:02 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 29):
Those sorts of scare tactics don’t really further our discussion.

You're kidding, right?  eyebrow 

It is obvious that those are the main risks (in addition to the lessor going bankrupt).

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 29):
In any event most people own their favorite tracks.

Which is why iTunes flourishes while the rent-based systems are pretty much starving in a tiny niche.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 29):
People seem to be very satisfied renting lots of movies through Netflix and owning a few favorites in their libraries. Don’t see how renting songs is any different.

There are very few people who'd like to watch a particular movie as often as they'd want to listen to their favourite music. What is so difficult to see here?
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:09 am

Looks like iTunes may be forced to go the subscription route now, too. At least in the UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...xml=/news/2007/04/14/nitunes14.xml
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:21 am

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 31):
Looks like iTunes may be forced to go the subscription route now, too. At least in the UK

The music labels have tried to force that on Apple right from the start. With Apple's position getting stronger and the label's position getting weaker since then, why would they be "forced" now?

Apple has always championed less restrictive distribution than the labels wanted, so I doubt that Apple would love to introduce the draconian DRM they'd need to support a rent-based system. With videos the situation is somewhat different as mentioned above.
 
md11fan
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:32 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:27 am

Oh ya and limewire is legal for all of those that think it is not HEHE just thought to put that out there
 
102IAHexpress
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:33 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 30):
You're kidding, right?

It is obvious that those are the main risks (in addition to the lessor going bankrupt).

Dude, yahoo going bankrupt? LOL!

Quoting Klaus (Reply 30):
Which is why iTunes flourishes while the rent-based systems are pretty much starving in a tiny niche.

That’s not really why. For one iTunes was on the market way before yahoo unlimited. Second there are tens of millions more iPods on the market than iRivers or Dell jukeboxes. Thirdly Apple markets their music products more heavily than yahoo does as apple can not afford to have iTunes fail

Quoting Klaus (Reply 30):
There are very few people who'd like to watch a particular movie as often as they'd want to listen to their favourite music.

It’s true my favorite song is only a few minutes long, but whenever the Godfather, Pulp Fiction or Star Wars is on I stop and watch it. There are some TV episodes that I have seen dozens of times and I continue to re-watch them, again and again because well, they’re my favorites.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:45 am

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 34):
Dude, yahoo going bankrupt? LOL!

I wouldn't bet on Yahoo surviving longer than at least parts of my musical taste already have.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 34):
For one iTunes was on the market way before yahoo unlimited.

Several rent-based offerings have come and gone. iTunes was the first reasonable ownership-oriented one and immediately redefined the entire market. Things like that don't happen easily against the wishes of the customers. People simply waited for a convincing offering, and the heavily restricted industry offerings simply weren't convincing.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 34):
Second there are tens of millions more iPods on the market than iRivers or Dell jukeboxes.

For good reasons.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 34):
Thirdly Apple markets their music products more heavily than yahoo does as apple can not afford to have iTunes fail

The iTunes Store basically just supports itself. It doesn't make much of a profit for Apple. The iPod does that.

Quoting 102IAHexpress (Reply 34):
It’s true my favorite song is only a few minutes long, but whenever the Godfather, Pulp Fiction or Star Wars is on I stop and watch it. There are some TV episodes that I have seen dozens of times and I continue to re-watch them, again and again because well, they’re my favorites.

For most people there's still a substantial difference. Watching some movies when they're broadcast once a year is one thing, but most people listen (much) more frequently to the music they like.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:59 am

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 11):
So do I have the right to load into my computer songs I have already paid for?

I think so.

So if you borrow a book and don't get it back, lose another one and accidentially destroy a third, you can go to a book store and steal the three books or only pay the store? And while you are at it, steal a copy of your favourite book for your bathtub.
He, the authors and publishers already got your money, didn't they?

Your thinking could stand a reality check.
I support the right to arm bears
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:41 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 36):
Your thinking could stand a reality check.

So could yours. The book store has been stealing from us for years, now we want to turn the tables and you call us criminal? Re-read my other replies.
This space intentionally left blank
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7204
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:51 am

The way I see it, it's not a matter of what is legal or illegal, it is simply the fact that the record producers felt they had no need to keep up with technology and society. They thought it was more important to dictate to us what form of media we should purchase. If the companies would have taken their heads out of their asses way back when MP3's and using the internet to access music started to become popular, they wouldn't have lost as much money as they have and would have gained much more respect and prospective customers. But they decided to fight the customer, telling us how to buy our music instead of running a business like a business should be run, such as understanding the market.

Even if the record producers would have started offering music online for a fee, there would still be many people who illegally download, but the fact that they have fought this form of media instead of accepting it has tarnished their reputation.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1106
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:35 pm

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 36):
So if you borrow a book and don't get it back, lose another one and accidentially destroy a third, you can go to a book store and steal the three books or only pay the store? And while you are at it, steal a copy of your favourite book for your bathtub.

I do not see what you wrote has to do with what is here talked about.

The artist and record company already got my money. I am just listening to it in a different format than vinyl or tape or disc. It is not like I am stealing another disc or cassette. Just code.

Anyway that is how I justify it.
I can drive faster than you
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:36 pm

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 37):
The book store has been stealing from us for years

So?
When I take care of my books, I don't need to buy another copy for quite some time - if not for the rest of my life. And then comes Shredder Kid who needs a new copy every couple months, because he spills his Coke over it all time, and I'm the one who is going to subsidize his books by spending more on my copy - or what exactly is your idea?
When I crash my car - can I have a discount on my new providing it's the same model? Look, I already paid my part for the design and construction work, didn't I?
If you can't take care of your books or records, buy a new copy and don't expect me to subsidize it.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 37):
now we want to turn the tables

We?

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 37):
you call us criminal

I call stealing criminal and your logic flawed.

I know very well that it's partially the recording industries' own fault that revenue isn't looking so great. Illegal downloads are only one of their problems. At the same time, I know enough musicians and have been in the media business for long enough to know that musicians still need the recording industry i.e. as distributors for their music. Arctic Monkeys are still an exception from this rule.
That said, those who illegally download music don't care about the revenue of artists either. For some reasons they believe that recoding an album is something you can do on a Sunday afternoon and consoles fall from heaven like Manna.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 37):
Re-read my other replies.

I found only one more and that one was funny enough, thanks.
I support the right to arm bears
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 11):
During my teen years in the 80's I had a record collection of over 500 records. The only way to get them then was to buy them. Which I did. Over the years they migrated to my brother, sister and who knows where else for I moved away. Well, when I look on the "illegal" downloading sites. I try to recollect my collection. I have about 2300 songs in my computer. I have already paid for the songs. The artists has already got my cut. So do I have the right to load into my computer songs I have already paid for?

No you don't. You gave the records to someone else and then obtained a free copy. Now two people have the music but only one gave the artist their cut. Try using that argument with "copied" bank notes.  Smile

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 37):
The book store has been stealing from us for years, now we want to turn the tables and you call us criminal?

But a lot of banks inflict charges and fees on us which many consider to be unfair. Why doesn't that logic justify bank robberies?
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:30 pm

Quoting CO777ER (Reply 8):
For all those Americans out there, according to Section 107 of the Constitution:

Examples of Fair Use include: (you can download music legally )

* Quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment.
* Quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work for illustration or clarification of the author%u2019s observations.
* Reproduction of material for classroom use where the reproduction was unexpected and spontaneous %u2013 for example, where an article in the morning%u2019s paper is directly relevant to that day%u2019s class topic.
* Use in a parody of short portions of the work itself.
* A summary of an address or article, which may include quotations of short passages of the copyrighted work.
- source: http://www.copyright.com/ccc/do/viewPage?pageCode=cr10-n#fairuse

So take advantage of your Constitutional rights!

Hmmmm....I do not think I read that in the constitution. Al Gore invented the internet and he wasn't alive then.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 25):
Quoting TedTAce (Reply 24):
I say eff the music industry where it breathes.

It doesn't actually breathe so much as eerily moan, while laboriously dragging itself forward in longing for people's brains for nourishment, and just occasionally dropping the odd body part in the process...!

Damn, you're funny...


 laughing   laughing   laughing   laughing   laughing 
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 39):
I do not see what you wrote has to do with what is here talked about.

It's called an analogy. Analogies are used to illustrate points, to explain something which could otherwise be too difficult to understand for the people in question.
Music and literature are both intellectual properties. For some mysterious reason, some people think stealing a second copy of the same book is wrong whereas stealing a second copy of the same composition is ok.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 39):
The artist and record company already got my money.

Likewise, the author and the publisher already got your money.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 39):
I am just listening to it in a different format than vinyl or tape or disc.

To maintain the analogy: You are just reading a hardcover issue of the same book you previously owned as paperback.

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 39):
It is not like I am stealing another disc or cassette. Just code.

Look, I write code every day and you better don't think of stealing it. The code is a product just like the polywhatever used for a CD. Actually, the code contains the music, hence is the product you are after - not the disc or cassette.
I support the right to arm bears
 
TedTAce
Posts: 9098
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:31 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting David L (Reply 41):
But a lot of banks inflict charges and fees on us which many consider to be unfair. Why doesn't that logic justify bank robberies?

Maybe not gun in hand life threatening robberies, but if someone can e-steal from a bank and a lot more then less get away with it, more power to them  Smile
This space intentionally left blank
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1106
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 43):
Look, I write code every day and you better don't think of stealing it.

I am not stealing it. I am just using the intelectual property I already paid for.
I can drive faster than you
 
Klaus
Posts: 20622
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:25 am

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 45):
I am not stealing it. I am just using the intelectual property I already paid for.

While "stealing" is a nonsensical misnomer for it, you did indeed sell the usage rights linked to the physical media when you got rid of the disks. I'm all for the legality of non-commercial copies for private use, but at the moment you're selling the media things do change with regards to the usage rights.

If it's a private sale I would not see grounds for criminal proceedings, but you're definitely making this out to be a bit too convenient.

Simply look at it this way: If you're buying a CD, making a private copy, then re-selling it to someone who's doing the same again, will everybody who once owned that CD have been "blessed" with unlimited usage rights even though they've sold it again? I think it is immediately clear that that's not the case.

The media industry is clearly on the wrong track in many respects, but you're definitely not making a good case for sensible handling of usage rights either.
 
seb146
Posts: 14045
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 15):
Any excuse you make ........... it's still stealing.

from the rich. So, as stated before, we should feel sorry for these multi- millionares who don't get royalties from free downloads? Multi-millionares who go on round-the-world trips every year (a.k.a. on tour) and charge outrageous amounts of money anyway for people to see them live?

But, beyond that, we are supposed to pay to hear new music? Up and coming artists that will see very little of the profits from a single song? Artists that are not in the main stream that will not see much of a profit either and we should feel sorry for the rich?

Let's feel sorry for the oil CEOs at the same time. If they lowered their gas prices, they would have to give up their huge mansions and luxury cars. Boo effin hoo....

GO CANUCKS!!
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
rlwynn
Posts: 1106
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 3:35 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:34 am

I am not really trying to make a case. I am just revealing on how I myself justify downloading some music.

I did not sell anything. I moved away and my brother and sister basically inherited the albums. Or they just disapeared over time.

I am just explaing how I do not feel bad downloading music I have already paid for.

If it is wrong so be it.

[Edited 2007-04-16 17:36:29]
I can drive faster than you
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Illegal Music Downloading, It's Not Legal

Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting Rlwynn (Reply 45):
I am not stealing it. I am just using the intelectual property I already paid for.

And so are the people you gave the records to but they didn't pay to use it. What makes your part illegal is that you are the one left with only the free copies while they have the originals, which were paid for. Extending your idea, one person could by a CD, copy it then pass it on to someone else. That process could be repeated until there were a thousand copies in use by a thousand people, only one of which had actually been paid for.

If I buy a CD, make a copy for my own use, e.g. in my car or MP3 player, and keep the original, there's no harm done (though it might not be strictly legal in all cases). One person paid for the use of the material and one person is using it.

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 44):
but if someone can e-steal from a bank and a lot more then less get away with it, more power to them

Ah, well, kind of... as long as they don't e-steal it from my bank.  Smile

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