ANCFlyer
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Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:22 am

Continued from here please:
Shooting At VA Tech (by FriendlySkies Apr 16 2007 in Non Aviation)
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
TedTAce
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:46 am

"one of the most disturbed student I have ever seen" His former teacher

Talked to by the VT police 2X for stalking, one of the girls had a case but didn't press charges.

SHE could have stopped this.
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MDorBust
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:49 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
SHE could have stopped this.
True, but unfair.

It's not like creepy guys have a very high percentage of going on to be mass murderers.... whole computer science departments could be arrested if they did.

[Edited 2007-04-19 00:50:10]
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
fumanchewd
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:50 am

MSN now has a picture posted with Seung-Hui holding two guns and there is an article that states he had purchased a 22 caliber Walther over a month before the incident.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18170761/

From the picture it looks as though the gun is a Walther P22. Can someone confirm, as it is hard to tell?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776/?GT1=9246

http://www.tonyrogers.com/weapons/images/walther_p22_left_1200px.jpg

Here is the one that I had with a 5" barrel extnesion.

http://tir.cecaz.free.fr/la_ciotat_2002/Walther-P22-cal-22-LR.JPG

I used to own a P22 and was amazed at how fast you could reload. If you look the mag release at the bottom of the trigger guard, it is easy to explain. I could hold a mag in my left hand and when the rounds in the gun would run out, I would hit the release with my left thumb. The mag was spring released and would actuall shoot out of the bottom of the gun with help from gravity. I would grab the falling mag with my left hand (which was also holding the full mag) and in an upmotion I could slide the new mag in. This would all take a matter of one second before I could start popping again. Conceivably someone could have a
vest full of mags (just like the one in the picture) and after loading the new mag, they could drop the empty one with their left hand and grab a new one while still shooting with the right. Look at the picture and see how bulky that ammo vest is. I am sure it was full of Walther mags.

Now, I know that many in here think that 22s aren't powerful enough, but I'm pretty sure that he was able to take out so many so quickly because of this reloading technique on the P22. If he shoots off 100 rounds, he would do major damage. He wouldn't be able to hold enough mags for the 9 to hit that many anyway.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
stlgph
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:57 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
SHE could have stopped this.

no.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
redngold
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:58 am

I hadn't posted about this yet because I have been so overwhelmed by what happened.

It is important for each one of us not only to pray for the families and those who are grieving, but also to examine ourselves and our own character - for in each one of us there may be dark areas which we should consider and address lest they explode into madness and rage as what happened at VT.

This is not to say that we should blame the victims. They are victims. This is not to say that we should blame our society. Our society is not perfect. Yet as responsible individuals we must consider our reactions to violence so that we do not beget further violence. We should find an appropriate outlet for our frustrations and for our human emotions so that they are either eliminated or channeled into positive actions. I believe that the people who read Cho's writings and referred him to counseling and a psychiatric facility did all that they could do, given the circumstances. Ultimately, it was his decision, and his alone, to choose the path to murder.

My thoughts and prayers go out to those who are grieving. May those who have died rest in Christ's everlasting arms, and those who mourn and are terrorized find comfort in His grace and mercy.

redngold
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TedTAce
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:02 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 4):
no.

Yes,
If she had pressed charges, he would have been a convicted criminal and would not have legally obtained those weapons. He also would have likely been expelled and that gets him away from the campus. Is it possible he would have done something else? MAYBE, but he wouldn't have done what he did.
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MDorBust
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:04 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 3):
If he shoots off 100 rounds, he would do major damage. He wouldn't be able to hold enough mags for the 9 to hit that many anyway.

The Glock 19 has a larger magazine capacity than the Walther P22. Fifteen versus ten.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
VHVXB
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:06 am

Quote:
The gunman who killed 32 students on a Virginia university campus sent photographs, video and writings to a US television network during his bloody massacre.

The correspondence, sent to NBC News, was time-stamped during the two hours after Cho Seung-Hui had killed two people in their dormitory, but before he slaughtered 30 more in a classroom building at Virginia Tech.

MSNBC, an affiliate of ninemsn, has announced that clips from the video will be released to the network soon.

Police said that NBC News immediately notified authorities about the messages.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=261951

I couldn't find this in the other VATech thread
 
TedTAce
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:09 am

Quoting VHVXB (Reply 8):
I couldn't find this in the other VATech thread

The last or second to last post mentioned it I had posted one of the pics, but someone deleted it  Sad
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fumanchewd
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:12 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 7):
The Glock 19 has a larger magazine capacity than the Walther P22. Fifteen versus ten.

Yeah, I guess conceivebly he could have enough of the Glock ammo, but I am amazed that he could have shot so many people. It made me think why someone couldn't take him down at all during that whole time. Perhaps he was always loaded?? I might be wrong, but I suspect that the Walther was the main weapon used.

But then again, in the photos he's posing with the bigger Glock like its his Johnson.

I can't get the pictures on here but anyone who is interested can see the slideshow here...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5114929/
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:20 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 10):
It made me think why someone couldn't take him down at all during that whole time. Perhaps he was always loaded??

I have thought about that quite a bit.

Firstly, I don't think he was a practiced marksman. And it does in fact take time to reload a weapon. And if three/four/five stuents rushed him during that time certainly someone would get to him. Now, this is the epitome of Arm Chair QBing, but I gotta wonder. Didn't one or two of them say - hey, screw this, let's get the asshole?
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
charlienorth
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:24 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
hey, screw this, let's get the asshole?

Someone may have tried,as time goes we'll find out more

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 6):
Yes,
If she had pressed charges, he would have been a convicted criminal and would not have legally obtained those weapons. He also would have likely been expelled and that gets him away from the campus. Is it possible he would have done something else? MAYBE, but he wouldn't have done what he did.

Sounds like there were several opportunities that were lost.
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
stlgph
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 6):
Yes,

sorry, but no.

slapping someone's hand does not erase intent and motive.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Mir
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Now, this is the epitome of Arm Chair QBing, but I gotta wonder. Didn't one or two of them say - hey, screw this, let's get the asshole?

You don't expect that thing at all in that kind of setting, and it would not surprise me if everyone was just scared shitless. It's easy for one to say that they would have tried to stop him, but unless you were there, I don't think it's appropriate to question the actions of the students. In all probability, it was the first time that many there had ever seen a gun, much less been shot at by one.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
TedTAce
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 13):
slapping someone's hand does not erase intent and motive.

You are correct in this statment, but I believe it would have shifted the last point of the triangle out of position and that would be OPPORTUNITY.

Now I have permission to re-post the poicture with the disclaimer that this is a self portrait made by the shooter. If this is not frightening, I do not know what is:

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luv2fly
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:36 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
"one of the most disturbed student I have ever seen" His former teacher

Talked to by the VT police 2X for stalking, one of the girls had a case but didn't press charges.

SHE could have stopped this.

Sorry do not try to blame this on any else but the shooter!

Quoting STLGph (Reply 4):
Quoting TedTAce (Reply 1):
SHE could have stopped this.

no.

As much as I hate to say this I have to agree with Gavin.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
stlgph
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 15):
and that would be OPPORTUNITY.

the opportunity would have been there.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
You don't expect that thing at all in that kind of setting, and it would not surprise me if everyone was just scared shitless. It's easy for one to say that they would have tried to stop him, but unless you were there, I don't think it's appropriate to question the actions of the students. In all probability, it was the first time that many there had ever seen a gun, much less been shot at by one.

Human nature is to run and hide. There are, in fact, however, those that defy human nature. It's simply a question. And predicated with an Arm Chair Quarterbacking remark. Surely, everyone on A-Net is familiar with Arm Chair Quarterbacking . . . . happens here all the time.

Gotta wonder. Didn't anyone think "Let's get him"?
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Queso
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:41 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 3):
Walther P22. Can someone confirm, as it is hard to tell?

Confirmed.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 10):
It made me think why someone couldn't take him down at all during that whole time. Perhaps he was always loaded??

I have thought about that quite a bit.

Firstly, I don't think he was a practiced marksman. And it does in fact take time to reload a weapon. And if three/four/five stuents rushed him during that time certainly someone would get to him. Now, this is the epitome of Arm Chair QBing, but I gotta wonder. Didn't one or two of them say - hey, screw this, let's get the asshole?

I'm not slamming the cops involved, but I think was either a failure of department policy to not become involved in a situation like this until SWAT arrives or (and I sure hope this is not the case) the guys need to grow a pair. God, I wish I could have been there and been armed. Not being tied down by policy an armed and trained citizen might have been able to make a huge difference.



Edited to remove a picture some people found offensive.

[Edited 2007-04-19 02:13:08]
 
redngold
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting Queso (Reply 19):
God, I wish I could have been there and been armed. Not being tied down by policy an armed and trained citizen might have been able to make a huge difference.

Just because you are "trained" to use a gun properly does not mean you know when to use it, or can keep yourself calm and collected to use it under stress. This is what leads to "friendly fire" incidents. Sorry, I don't believe most people when they say "if I had my gun there I would have stopped it."
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luv2fly
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:45 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
You don't expect that thing at all in that kind of setting, and it would not surprise me if everyone was just scared shitless. It's easy for one to say that they would have tried to stop him, but unless you were there, I don't think it's appropriate to question the actions of the students. In all probability, it was the first time that many there had ever seen a gun, much less been shot at by one.

Human nature is to run and hide. There are, in fact, however, those that defy human nature. It's simply a question. And predicated with an Arm Chair Quarterbacking remark. Surely, everyone on A-Net is familiar with Arm Chair Quarterbacking . . . . happens here all the time.

Gotta wonder. Didn't anyone think "Let's get him"?

Well let me give my side of this, having been on the side of a gun pointed at my head. The first thing that goes through it is surviving and doing what your told. Having been in a bank robbery I can tell you this, it happens so fast and it is almost surreal that you can not believe that,

a. it is happening
and
b. are you seeing what you think you are seeing!

The shock of it literally froze me in my tracks and still do not remember getting on the ground.

So you can say or think what you might do if you find yourself in that kind of situation, though until you do, and hopefully you never will, you have no way of knowing how you will react.
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Queso
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:48 am

Quoting Redngold (Reply 20):
Just because you are "trained" to use a gun properly does not mean you know when to use it, or can keep yourself calm and collected to use it under stress.

It goes along with the proper training. Being trained to properly use a firearm entails a helluva lot more than just learning how to stand there and squeeze a trigger and I had 120 hours of advanced training in the use of a firearm, judicious use of deadly force, combat mindset, etc. last year alone.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 20):
Sorry, I don't believe most people when they say "if I had my gun there I would have stopped it."

Sorry you don't believe it. You are just uninformed about some of us who carry concealed handguns in the real world.

Edit: BTW, I never said "if I had my gun I would have stopped it", I said "an armed and trained citizen might have been able to make a huge difference."

[Edited 2007-04-19 01:52:02]
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:50 am

I'm not sure if this has already been posted, but the play he wrote was one of the most disturbing things i've read in a long time.
Richard McBeef, it's titled, on ironically, the smoking gun website
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html
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luv2fly
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:52 am

Queso the photos you included are crass to say the very least. Mom always said "Don't add salt to the wound" and "There is a time and place for everything" This is neither!
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:53 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 21):
So you can say or think what you might do if you find yourself in that kind of situation, though until you do, and hopefully you never will, you have no way of knowing how you will react.

I believe I said that . . . .twice.

And I'm familiar with having a gun pointed at me . . . . both my chosen professions have afforded me that opportunity.

It's Human Nature to hide, comply, run, etc. There are however, anomalies in everything. I simply wonder - didn't a handful of students, somewhere, make a plan?
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Queso
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:58 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 21):
Well let me give my side of this, having been on the side of a gun pointed at my head. The first thing that goes through it is surviving and doing what your told. Having been in a bank robbery I can tell you this, it happens so fast and it is almost surreal that you can not believe that,

a. it is happening
and
b. are you seeing what you think you are seeing!

The shock of it literally froze me in my tracks and still do not remember getting on the ground.


It's called tachypsychia and it's completely normal. You probably also had problems sleeping for one or two weeks afterward, appetite disturbances for a week and possibly sexual dysfunction for a few days.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 21):
So you can say or think what you might do if you find yourself in that kind of situation, though until you do, and hopefully you never will, you have no way of knowing how you will react.

Proper training, including induced stress training, can go a long way toward helping people continue to function properly in situations like that.
 
Coz
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:59 am

Quoting Queso (Reply 19):
Not being tied down by policy an armed and trained citizen might have been able to make a huge difference.

And if you were an armed citizen, what exactly prevents the police from mistaking you as the gunman?
 
redngold
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:59 am

We have now reached the level of absurdity. Earlier today, NBC News officials received a package of photographs, a video and a manuscript from Cho which he sent between the first two and the Norris Hall shootings. NBC claimed that they immediately turned the package over to the FBI.

Now MSNBC is showing the video on tonight's news! On the front page of its website, it shows a still of Cho (unclear of whether this is from a video or a photograph) holding guns in a menacing position.

Sorry to scream, but THIS IS SICK!!!!
Up, up and away!
 
Queso
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:00 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 24):
Queso the photos you included are crass to say the very least.

Nothing worse than what you would see on network TV.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:03 am

Quoting Queso (Reply 29):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 24):
Queso the photos you included are crass to say the very least.

Nothing worse than what you would see on network TV.

Like I said there is a time and place for everything, the dead have not even been buried yet and you chose to get out your soapbox!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Queso
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:04 am

Quoting Coz (Reply 27):
And if you were an armed citizen, what exactly prevents the police from mistaking you as the gunman?

Knowing what to do with the gun when the police arrive is also a part of being properly trained. I will not give instructions here because it's not the kind of thing the "wrong" people should know, but there are very specific things that should be done and said to prevent being mistaken for an aggressor.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:12 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 25):
It's Human Nature to hide, comply, run, etc. There are however, anomalies in everything. I simply wonder - didn't a handful of students, somewhere, make a plan?

I'm reminded of the movie Toy Soldiers, where terrorists take over a private school and hold the school hostage for ransome, and a few screwball(portrayed in the movie as) students formulate a plan to take out the terrorists.

Quoting Redngold (Reply 28):
We have now reached the level of absurdity. Earlier today, NBC News officials received a package of photographs, a video and a manuscript from Cho which he sent between the first two and the Norris Hall shootings. NBC claimed that they immediately turned the package over to the FBI.

Now MSNBC is showing the video on tonight's news! On the front page of its website, it shows a still of Cho (unclear of whether this is from a video or a photograph) holding guns in a menacing position.

Sorry to scream, but THIS IS SICK!!!!

It's called media sensationalism. I watch the news here and see these other students being interviewed, no doubt seeking their 15 seconds of fame, are dazzled by the fact they got on tv. I mean no one has anything really to say, they just jump in front of the microphone and the camera to "tell their story" or "where they were" when it happened. But it's the same story. They might as well interview me, and have me "tell my story" or "where I was" when this happened. They'll get the same story.
Made from jets!
 
Queso
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 30):
Like I said there is a time and place for everything, the dead have not even been buried yet and you chose to get out your soapbox!

I very much disagree with your opinion, but I respect it nonetheless. I have removed the picture I think you found offensive from my post in the interest of civil discussion. OK?
 
luv2fly
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:21 am

Well even though the other one is less offensive it is still offensive considering the timing of the crimes and the fact that the victims have not even been laid to rest and you are being the poster child for the NRA! I'll thank you once the other one is gone as well. Mom alwasy said, "Two wrongs never make a right"
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
TedTAce
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:23 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 32):
It's called media sensationalism.

Fed by a media whore gunman.

The coverage up to this point has been mostly respectful. Giving this asshole the spotlight he's obviously seeking is stupid. Enjoyable to watch like a train wreck; but utterly irresponsible to broadcast. Children now know if they go on a mass killing spree an send their videos and pictures to NBC, it will get on the air ad they will have their 15 minutes and then some, thus irrationally justifying mass murder for the sake of getting famous.
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Mir
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
Human nature is to run and hide. There are, in fact, however, those that defy human nature. It's simply a question.

Of course. And my answer would be that perhaps there weren't any who defy human nature there that day. Nothing wrong with that. Or maybe some did try, and failed. I don't know what I'd do if I were there, but I get the sense that I'd most likely put a priority on helping people get out of the building rather than trying to take down someone with a gun.

The more the question gets asked, the more it seems as if there's some sort of blame being attached. I know you probably don't mean it that way, but that's what it comes across as.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Queso
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 34):
Well even though the other one is less offensive it is still offensive considering the timing of the crimes and the fact that the victims have not even been laid to rest and you are being the poster child for the NRA! I'll thank you once the other one is gone as well. Mom alwasy said, "Two wrongs never make a right"

You just can't please some people, I should have known to not even try to be civil and respectful with you. What is written on the remaining pic is nothing different from what has already been discussed in this thread and the previous one similarly titled. The picture itself is certainly not as offensive as the one Ted posted of the murderer himself.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting Queso (Reply 37):
You just can't please some people, I should have known to not even try to be civil and respectful with you. What is written on the remaining pic is nothing different from what has already been discussed in this thread and the previous one similarly titled. The picture itself is certainly not as offensive as the one Ted posted of the murderer himself.

What I fend offensive is you using this tragedy to further your gun agenda and showing no respects for the dead victims by doing this less then 48 hours after the crime. What ever happened to a period of mourning.

And please I have been nothing but respectful and civil in my postings, no name calling or cheap shots.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:33 am

Quoting TedTAce (Reply 35):
Fed by a media whore gunman.

Very good point. A sociopathic obsession with "getting even" or "settling scores" with people he probably didn't even know
Made from jets!
 
Queso
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 38):
And please I have been nothing but respectful and civil in my postings, no name calling or cheap shots.

As have I, thus the reason I removed the picture I thought you judged offensive.

I'm not pushing an agenda in this thread, I just wish something could have been done to prevent or at the very least mitigate what happened, rather than those defenseless people not even having a chance. Don't you?
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:37 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
And my answer would be that perhaps there weren't any who defy human nature there that day.

And that answers my question. Simple as that really. I'm not pointing fingers or assessing liability here, it's a legit question. Did anyone think - lets get this asshole?

Perhaps there weren't.

As events unfold, as stories are told, I'm sure such a thought process will come out . . . . if it existed.

Quoting Mir (Reply 36):
The more the question gets asked, the more it seems as if there's some sort of blame being attached.

The only blame lies with the killer.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 32):
I'm reminded of the movie Toy Soldiers

First I thought of that movie with the miniature GI-Joe guys wreaking havok, then it occured to me which one you're talking about. Yup, exactly like that.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12361
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:43 am

One can criticise the posting of the pictures, and some of the film made by Cho and apparently sent to NBC between his alleged killings, but to not post or show parts of it, after review by the police and since he is dead, would be impossible for NBC NOT to do. Eventually, the pictures/films would show up on line someplace, and people do want some explanation in the victim's words and pictures as to his state of mind when he did his act of terror. NBC has apparently taken care not to display or play audio that would be inappropriate for commercial network television.
On another point, and from the further information we now have, 3 issues arise and may need more time to figure out: 1) he apparently had some serious mental or psychological health problems; 2) there serious problems in his relationship with his parents; and 3) before he attended college, he apparently had problems with having friends and acquaintances, especially with women.
I wonder if at the high school he attended, there were no or very few Koreans (especially females) he could be friends with, or if his family restrained him from having friends or were so strict as to keep him from being a 'normal' teen? In a previous post, I raised some questions as to if was he raised in a strict and conservative Christan home and affected his behaviors, lack of friends, and so on. With some of the 'Christian' references he made in his materials, one has to wonder about if he was rebelling with or against Christianity.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:47 am

Quoting Queso (Reply 40):
I'm not pushing an agenda in this thread, I just wish something could have been done to prevent or at the very least mitigate what happened, rather than those defenseless people not even having a chance. Don't you?

What you are doing my posting that photo is the same as Fred Phelps does at every service person funeral, he uses a senseless tragedy to further his agenda.

I just wish something could have been done to prevent or at the very least mitigate what happened, rather than those defenseless people not even having a chance. Don't you?

I do, though in respect for the victims and there family they deserve that this fight be brought up after a period of time, not the next day.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
MDorBust
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:54 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 34):
...you are being the poster child for the NRA!

You say this as if there is something wrong with the NRA. Please, do tell. In another thread.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Mir
Posts: 19092
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:59 am

L-188 posted this in the last thread, and I feel it deserves a response:

Two years ago the Virigina Legislature shot down HB-1572. That bill would have authorized concealed carry of firearms by students. The Administration at VT lobbied to kill it.

Sorry but I do have to wonder if VT's lobbying efforts two years ago got more students killed.

And it is a legitimate question.


It's a legitimate question, but one must also consider whether there were lives saved by that decision. Nobody ever recognizes tragedies that get nipped in the bud.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 43):
What you are doing my posting that photo is the same as Fred Phelps does at every service person funeral, he uses a senseless tragedy to further his agenda.

I have to agree with this comment, much as I hate comparting anyone to Fred Phelps. There is nobody to blame for what happened but the student himself, and the photo appears to place a portion of the blame the VT administration for not allowing guns on campus, and even goes as far as to say that the administration was complicit in the killings, which is an outrageous claim to make.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Queso
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:03 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 45):
the administration was complicit in the killings, which is an outrageous claim to make.

Is it really outrageous to deny people the right to posess the means to defend themselves from being killed?
 
TedTAce
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:05 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 42):
With some of the 'Christian' references he made in his materials, one has to wonder about if he was rebelling with or against Christianity.

Without 'all' the video and his writings (and even then) it will be impossible to tell. Allegedly he was very non-linear and nonsensical. On what has been seen so far, he was doing this for 'those who suffer' against those who revel in lavish hedonisim. There are some other statements that seem to contradict exactly what I just said. Time and a VERY through evaluation might tell if he was just a fucked up kid with a fucked up message; or a kid with a real message that had a fucked up delivery.
This space intentionally left blank
 
bezoar
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 42):
one has to wonder about if he was rebelling with or against Christianity

I believe his mind was rebelling against rationality. His response to his grievances was neither anti-Christian, Christian, or anything else BUT deranged.

One could not possibly legislate against such thinking or behavior. In my mind the question are whether it might be possible to identify who these people are, differentiate them from 'benign oddness', and the degree ot which one cull them from society without unfairly labeling, incarcerating, or medicating anyone.

It is my opinion that one of the things that will come out of this tragedy is an awareness of the poor condition of our mental health system. It is a revolving door of partial treatment, pushing unstable people back into society without appropriate follow-up or having any way of getting the medications they need. Many of these folks are doomed to failure.

And this problem is growing.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
QueenofDaSkies
Posts: 94
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RE: Shooting At Virginia Tech - Part 2

Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:07 am

Disturbing nonetheless however my only question is, how is it that someone with a history of mental problems was allowed to purchase TWO guns within a few days or week or two?

Gun laws a bit too lenient if you ask me.......
It's time to FLY!

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