bristolflyer
Posts: 2103
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Car Dealerships

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:05 pm

Yesterday I went to get some info on a new truck that I want (Toyota Tacoma). Of course the salesman decided that he was going to convert this visit of mine into a sale. He offered me half of what my current truck is worth as a trade and offered me just under list for the Tacoma - $29,500.

Then I said I wasn't in a position to do the deal as I had to discuss it with my biz partner, needed to sell my current truck privately (as their offer was so low) and had to go to another appointment. So you think they just let me walk out the door? Absolutley not. 2 different managers came over giving me every reason under the sun why I should buy there & then. I told them point blank that I wasn't going to do a deal. So then one of the managers asked 'so what was your intention today', trying to lay on a guilt trip that I had been wasting their time. I told them I was on a fact finding mission only.

Eventually I managed to get out the door at which point they reduced their price to $24,500, probably as I told them I was going to shop around. So I am pleased I got a decent offer but really I don't feel like I want to give them my business. I was so p1ssed off when I came out of that place, they put an enormous amount of pressure on me to buy a vehicle when I told them I was not ready. Anyone unwilling to have put up the barriers like I did would have found themselves signing on the dotted line. Buying a new car should be fun and exciting, now it's anything but.

Anyone else have bad experience at the dealership? Anyone know a decent Toyota salesperson in Phoenix?
Fortune favours the brave
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: Car Dealerships

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:27 pm

Yea I went to go buy a 2003 BMW 323Ci with the M sports package and everything. Basically everything was good untill it came to a price on the trade in 2002 VW Jetta 1.8T. I had a quote from VW and another dealership so I was feeling pretty good... THEN they low-balled me on my car, I tried to protest and they would not budge, when I was like if that is what you are going to offer me I am out of here, after a VERY long time of arguing and what not I finally got out of there, taking Adeline(VW) back home with me.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Car Dealerships

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
when I told them I was not ready

...you do realize that 99.9999999999999% of people who both can/do buy, say that, right?

If they actually listened to everyone who stated that at some point during their time on the lot, they'd starve. As you describe it, they were completely justified in their technique; and if you really didn't want to be "harassed" by people who are just doing their job, then you would've had enough common sense to go at a time/date when the dealership was closed in order to 'just look'.

[Edited 2007-04-19 16:41:23]
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Car Dealerships

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:40 pm

I HATE the hard sell. That's why I've bought my last four brand new cars from a dealer that pays his salespeople a salary, not minimum wage plus commission.

At other dealerships, I've actually seen salespeople nearly elbow each other trying to get to the next poor schmuck that dared to look at a price tag in the sales lot.

I love to visit other car dealerships with no intention of dealing or buying a car. I egg on the salespeople and milk each situation for all it's worth. One time, I spent almost four hours test driving cars and haggling, only to leave saying, "Thanks for an entertaining afternoon. It was a blast. Bye."
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Car Dealerships

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
a dealer that pays his salespeople a salary,

Excepting Saturn... there's a reason that the overwhelming majority of major (USA) dealerships avoid doing that like the plague.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Car Dealerships

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:53 pm



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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Car Dealerships

Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:57 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 4):
there's a reason that the overwhelming majority of major (USA) dealerships avoid doing that like the plague.

And what would that reason be? You mean car dealership owners actually think people WANT to be attacked like wildebeest on the African savannah?
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DucatiRacer
Posts: 239
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:02 am

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 1):
THEN they low-balled me on my car

Well, don't jump to the conclusion that the BMW dealer was just being a jerk or playing hardball (although he or she may certainly have been). I have seen the same thing play out at several premium brand dealers here in DFW. From what I have experienced, those dealers only keep used inventory from the brand they sell (this seems particularly true of BMW). Accordingly, they will not under any circumstances place a VeeDub on their pre-owned BMW lot. That means they have to unload your trade to someone else, for which they will get no better than a wholesale price. Ultimately, this means they cannot offer you much for your car, because doing so could actually leave them out of pocket when they sell off your trade to the wholesaler (I think they typically get a verbal confirmation of a price the wholesaler will pay, and that the wholesaler will in fact buy your vehicle, before they even present you with their trade in offer). If you want top dollar for your trade, your best bet is to trade it in on a like-brand vehicle, at a dealer that is in-network with other brands and can ship it to a sister dealership, or at a dealer that will allow multiple brands on their pre-owned lot.
 
AirportSeven
Posts: 309
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:30 am

Everbody who walks onto the lot is looking to buy.

This is a now business. The car is here now, the deal is here now, get them to sign on the line which is dotted. Now.

They say they are just looking? Great, Columbus was just looking when he discovered America, and that seems like it worked out pretty good for everybody. Find out what they are looking for and lead them to it.

ABC. Always Be Closing. Nod your head and say "Don't you agree that this is the car for you?". Smile, and look them in the eyes. Get them inside and sit them at your desk.

If price becomes an issue, sell them on value. "Look at all that you are getting, Mr. Customer. This is a really good deal for you, wouldn't you agree?". Nod your head again while you say this. Make a mark on the dotted line so Mr. Customer will know where to sign.

Don't let them leave. I'll come in and work them if they start to walk.

Now get out there. Don't be an order taker. Sell. Sell. Sell.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:41 am

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 8):
ABC. Always Be Closing. Nod your head and say "Don't you agree that this is the car for you?". Smile, and look them in the eyes. Get them inside and sit them at your desk.

If price becomes an issue, sell them on value. "Look at all that you are getting, Mr. Customer. This is a really good deal for you, wouldn't you agree?". Nod your head again while you say this. Make a mark on the dotted line so Mr. Customer will know where to sign.

Don't let them leave. I'll come in and work them if they start to walk.

Are you one of those slimy, little motherfuckers that got your "degree" in the back of a Dale Carnegie book?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 6):
And what would that reason be?

Quite simply that brand-specific auto sale productivity generally ~nosedives~ when it's not performance based. Saturn has been able to make it work, to whatever extent on their numbers I'm not privy to. Everyone else of any market significance has long since turned their back on that as a corporate protocol, with only a handful of dealership groups choosing to do so completely out of their own coffers.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 6):
You mean car dealership owners actually think people WANT to be attacked like wildebeest on the African savannah?

...nope, I mean car dealership owners actually know that people RESPOND to that in a more fiscally-favorable manner in the long run, based on the numbers-- regardless as to what they may say about what they feel during or after the transaction.

Something else you're probably not even aware of or taking into consideration is the "CrossTown Effect"-- i.e., Toyota Dealer1 puts the pressure on Consumer-A, Toyota Dealer2 in town puts the pressure on Consumer-B; Consumer-A gets pissed off and runs to Dealer2 for the sale, Consumer-B gets pissed off and runs to Dealer1 for the sale. End of the day, both customers have a new Toyota and both Dealers have a sale. I can't tell you how many times our dealership gets a "they're comin' your way" or a "thanks for the tip" call from our competitors (both 6 and 48mi away).
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 3:53 am

This is why it is so difficult for me to work at Carmax. These assholes make such fools of their fellow car salesmen. Being so, people to not understand when they walk into Carmax how different things are. Non-negotiating prices, 5 day return policy, we're not pushed to sell - just to help...and so on.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
pays his salespeople a salary

And that is why Carmax works. I bring home a paycheck regardless if I sell 13 cars a month, or zero. A sale is more so just a "bonus."
Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
 
Coz
Posts: 411
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
Anyone know a decent Toyota salesperson in Phoenix?

I went to Avondale Toyota (I-10 & 99th Avenue) to get my car. I had no problems. They have a no-haggle policy. The car I got was reasonably priced without having to haggle. No pressure to buy, either.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:23 am

If you get to save a lot on the car you buy, the dealerships will make it up with the a number of others who don't know how to negotiate. One thing that bugs me to madness is the huge amount of advertising by dealers, especially with impossible prices shown, like that price is on one stripped down model, in a bad looking color (like Black in Arizona), just to get your attention. Cut out 70% of those ads and we could save $100's per car as consumers.
As to trade in's, I would suggest that 60% or more of them are so old, banged up, needing body or mechanical work, high mileage, not a desired car, not a brand of a dealer, that they will end up going to a dealer's auction, so the price they give you may be close with a small margin they expect to get at those auctions. Then your local clunker lot will buy them, fix them up as minimally needed and sell them.
One has to do their study work on the cars they want at various websites, including pricing, be realistic as to your trade in, watch out for 'excessive' fees (banned in some states), excessively creative financing and so on. That can save you a lot of $$$'s. My research when I bought my Mazda 6 last year resulted in my buying a better version of the car (with the sports package) by offering a below invoice cost. Along with a fair trade in (the did a Carfax check, noting it had been in a significant accident several years before and meaning about $500 less than I anticipated), but I also got over $3500 in Mazda rebates including $1000 for financing the car with Mazda, something I wasn't aware of when I went to buy the car. I paid off the loan 4 months later, for a net savings of about $600 by financing of the $1000 financing rebate. It took some negotiations, and several hours, including taking a lunch break, and I suspect kept them on edge. One has to go in with a reasonable but firm stand as to pricing, don't take any garbage. You also want to buy from a dealership that will be convenient, will be around for a few more years and so on.
I think most of the time outside the USA, there is far less negotiation of car pricing.
 
asuflyer05
Posts: 2058
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:53 am

RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:35 am

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
Anyone else have bad experience at the dealership? Anyone know a decent Toyota salesperson in Phoenix?

What dealer did you go to? Actually I think I know someone at Right Toyota in Scottsdale and possibly Camelback in Phoenix. Last time I spoke with them they were in the Fleet department.

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
Of course the salesman decided that he was going to convert this visit of mine into a sale.

But bad job him for making you feel pressured. There's a way to ask the customer for his business without making him feel pressured. The whole thing should just feel like a conversation. He's a salesperson in a store, not a librarian in a library. He's not there to hand out brochures and go on test drives. That's boring.

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
So you think they just let me walk out the door? Absolutley not.

There's a difference between real and stated objections. Many times customers will say they are not ready to buy, or they need to talk to their business partner, they have an appointment, etc. because the price is too high. So when the manager came out to see if he could sell you a car, it wasn't that he was trying to pressure you but rather to find out whether the objection was real or you just didn't like the color of the car you drove. That may be their only opportunity to sell you a car.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
I love to visit other car dealerships with no intention of dealing or buying a car. I egg on the salespeople and milk each situation for all it's worth. One time, I spent almost four hours test driving cars and haggling, only to leave saying, "Thanks for an entertaining afternoon. It was a blast. Bye."

You can really only do that with new salespeople. When I was a salesperson/asst. manager I had the highest CSI in the store and usually was like #3 in volume. I would say about 25% of my customers were referrals and the rest from internet leads/incoming phone calls. Every once and a while I would take a walk in, and as soon as I sensed I was getting stroked by the customer, I would let them I know I could probably do their lowball offer and toss them out with a brochure. This way they could take the number and get kicked out of every other Honda store in the state, then come back to me.

But karma comes back around. One time when I was still a salesperson I had a customer do that to me. We appraised his trade in, went on a test drive, got brochures, and gave him numbers etc. The used car manager indicated the transmission was slipping and deducted from the value of the car. The customer went on to basically call us liars and said we were trying to steal his car, blah blah blah. My manager speaks to the customer and explained that regardless of whether he buys a car or not he should get the car looked at, but he still left screaming and cursing. So I followed up with the guy but never got any kind of feel that he was serious. A few weeks went by and the guy came back in and asked for me. Turns out we were right about the transmission and it died while his wife was driving it and now they need a new car. I went on to obliterate the guy on an Odyssey When they came out with the redesigned model and were selling for right around sticker. I'm still spending the commission!

Quoting ZBBYLW (Reply 1):
THEN they low-balled me on my car,



Quoting DucatiRacer (Reply 7):
I have seen the same thing play out at several premium brand dealers here in DFW. From what I have experienced, those dealers only keep used inventory from the brand they sell (this seems particularly true of BMW).

There's a few reasons for what seemed like a low-ball. One the dealer was trying to make a profit on the trade-in. Second, high-line used car managers are very careful when buying cars because making a mistake on the value of a $70k 7-series can be very expensive, so they were also overly careful in the value of your car. Though sometimes we have a connection to another dealer and can get them to put a bid on the car. But otherwise, it's off to the wholesaler since people don't go to BMW stores to buy used VWs. In my experience VWs tend to sit for a while before they sell.

All kidding aside, if any of you need help buying a car I don't mind answering questions. So feel free to send over a PM.
 
Banco
Posts: 14343
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:36 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 13):
I think most of the time outside the USA, there is far less negotiation of car pricing.

I would seriously hope that's not a "We are the USA, we are therefore better than you lot" type of comment. So, why would you think that?
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
asuflyer05
Posts: 2058
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:53 am

RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting Coz (Reply 12):
I went to Avondale Toyota (I-10 & 99th Avenue) to get my car. I had no problems. They have a no-haggle policy. The car I got was reasonably priced without having to haggle. No pressure to buy, either.

I've heard good things about Avondale Toyota. You also only work with one person. So the guy that sells the car is your finance guy, sales manager, etc. You need to be pretty experienced to handle that much of the process so you will likely find a higher quality sales person.

Quoting Banco (Reply 15):
I would seriously hope that's not a "We are the USA, we are therefore better than you lot" type of comment. So, why would you think that?

What would make you think it was that type of a comment?
 
Banco
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 16):
What would make you think it was that type of a comment?

I wasn't really saying I thought it was, I was saying that I hoped it wasn't, hence the request for clarification. Car markets, new and used, are huge everywhere; why would there be less negotiation outside the US? What's the basis for such a comment?
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Charger
Posts: 264
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting AirportSeven (Reply 8):
ABC. Always Be Closing. Nod your head and say "Don't you agree that this is the car for you?". Smile, and look them in the eyes. Get them inside and sit them at your desk.

If price becomes an issue, sell them on value. "Look at all that you are getting, Mr. Customer. This is a really good deal for you, wouldn't you agree?". Nod your head again while you say this. Make a mark on the dotted line so Mr. Customer will know where to sign.

Don't let them leave. I'll come in and work them if they start to walk.

Now get out there. Don't be an order taker. Sell. Sell. Sell

And that's exactly the kind of salesperson I tell to kiss my ass.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 10):
nope, I mean car dealership owners actually know that people RESPOND to that in a more fiscally-favorable manner in the long run, based on the numbers-- regardless as to what they may say about what they feel during or after the transaction.

Please see above.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting Charger (Reply 18):
Please see above.

...and please note that for every one of you, there's 4 who do the exact opposite. Only one way to find 'em.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4309
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:21 am

Try dealing with the fleet manager and try the Toyota dealership on McDowell in Scottsdale.

If he pissed you off, go to another dealership. You are the customer and money talks.
You can't cure stupid
 
bristolflyer
Posts: 2103
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:36 am

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 14):
What dealer did you go to?



Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 14):
Camelback in Phoenix.

That'll be them.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 2):
common sense to go at a time/date when the dealership was closed in order to 'just look'.

Great idea. The vehicles would be locked and I wouldn't be able to get any prices. Other than that, great.
Fortune favours the brave
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:36 am

Quoting Charger (Reply 18):
And that's exactly the kind of salesperson I tell to kiss my ass.

Are you saying that people WANT to be pressured and toyed with like idiotic fools? Wow.

When I walk into a car sealership, I know exactly which car I want, what options I want, and the maximum I'm willing to spend. If the sales slob couldn't meet my demands, I walked. Also, if he tried giving me the hard sell, tried to push me into changing my mind, or started talking down to me ("This car looks like it was made just for you."), I walked.
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asuflyer05
Posts: 2058
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:07 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 22):
Are you saying that people WANT to be pressured and toyed with like idiotic fools? Wow.

Believe it or not, some people love it. People love to grind when they purchase a car. They want to be able to go home and tell all their friends how they beat the guy up and negotiatated the best deal. You're the perfect example. You like to go into a store and beat up the salesperson and when they make you feel good because you strong armed them, you buy a car. Meanwhile the salesperson works with 4 people like yourself everyday and couldn't care less what you say to him. They just did their job while they made it look like you scared them. He's just hoping you find a car you like enough to own and then make him a bonified offer.

It's the reason why these no-hassle, no-haggle dealerships have had limited success. Customers walk in, the dealer gives them the "best price" and they either buy it or they don't. It doesn't take into account that every customer is different, they each have their own perception of the "best deal," every deal is different. Contrary to popular belief, we don't have a top-secret classified "best price" algoritham The dealership group I worked for in Jersey owned three Saturn stores and their sales people were not salaried, they were paid a percentage of the profit just as in any other store. Saturn just requires that they not negotiate.

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 21):
That'll be them.

Most of the dealers along that stretch of Camelback are owned by the Van Tuyl group (ABC Nissan, Camelback Toyota, Showcase Honda, and apparently Camelback VW and Subaru as well). They are notorious for their pressure cooker like sales practices. I started at Showcase Honda and it was the reason why I left.
 
AirportSeven
Posts: 309
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:08 am

RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:09 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 9):
Are you one of those slimy, little motherfuckers that got your "degree" in the back of a Dale Carnegie book?

Imagine Slimy Little Motherfucker University with Dale Carnegie jacked up on steroids, meth and coffee. I wasn't the one giving that speech, though I heard it many times and in many variations.

I regret some of the things that I once had to do in order to pay my rent. I was young, a college drop-out, and I needed the money. I didn't exactly gain the whole world in that line of work, but I do feel that I forfeited a little of my soul because of it.

I got out, and now I have a college degree and a career doing something I believe in. I never had that killer instinct, I had no taste for being slimy. Effective sales people lack compunction, I do not.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:11 am

Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 21):
Great idea. The vehicles would be locked and I wouldn't be able to get any prices.

....course, if you had half a clue what you were doing, there'd be no need for a salesperson/manager in order to "get prices".  Yeah sure That, and nearly any vehicle can be viewed in 360 online.

If you're there for a test drive, then you're ~asking~ to get pressed for the sale, by actions if not by words.

If you don't like that; then sprout a pair, leave on your own timing, and come back when you're prepared to not waste their time.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
ZBBYLW
Posts: 1612
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:17 am

RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:34 am

Quoting DucatiRacer (Reply 7):
Well, don't jump to the conclusion that the BMW dealer was just being a jerk or playing hardball (although he or she may certainly have been). I have seen the same thing play out at several premium brand dealers here in DFW. From what I have experienced, those dealers only keep used inventory from the brand they sell (this seems particularly true of BMW). Accordingly, they will not under any circumstances place a VeeDub on their pre-owned BMW lot. That means they have to unload your trade to someone else, for which they will get no better than a wholesale price. Ultimately, this means they cannot offer you much for your car, because doing so could actually leave them out of pocket when they sell off your trade to the wholesaler (I think they typically get a verbal confirmation of a price the wholesaler will pay, and that the wholesaler will in fact buy your vehicle, before they even present you with their trade in offer). If you want top dollar for your trade, your best bet is to trade it in on a like-brand vehicle, at a dealer that is in-network with other brands and can ship it to a sister dealership, or at a dealer that will allow multiple brands on their pre-owned lot.

Hey, the only Issue with that would be... and I should have clarified, but it was on a Nissan lot, and they had one or two VWs around the lot to so it is not like they were scared of them  Wink. I see what you mean though, and possibly he was wanting to make more money on the car. In the end I decided not to buy a new car, stick with the VW run it until she dies, or I can no longer afford to run her. With the money saved I am thinking of buying a scooter to save on petrol, we will see. Anyhow thanks alot for your insight.

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 14):

There's a few reasons for what seemed like a low-ball.

Hey thanks alot for your insight to... proved very helpfull.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:58 am

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 23):
They want to be able to go home and tell all their friends how they beat the guy up and negotiatated the best deal. You're the perfect example.

I like to tell my friends that I got the vehicle I wanted with all the goodies I wanted for the price I wanted. I have no desire to "beat up" the salesperson, nor to "negotiate" a price. All I want is a "yes " or "no" when I ask if they can sell my choice of vehicle for the price I've requested.

The only time I play the sales game is after I've purchased my vehicle and wanted to see if I got the best deal. So far, my dealer has always given me the best price that no one could beat.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 25):
If you're there for a test drive, then you're ~asking~ to get pressed for the sale, by actions if not by words.

No. I wanted to test drive a 2007 Explorer Sport Trac the week they came out. My regular dealer didn't have one on hand yet, so I visited another dealership that had one. All I wanted to do is drive it. Halfway through the test drive, the sales guy (ugly necktie, ugly haircut, ugly shoes, and all) started in with the cliches and sales talk. I honestly told him I wasn't going to buy it. He just kept talking. So I kept on driving...for another ten minutes. He finally asked if I was interested in buying a vehicle from him and I said "no." He said I had a lot of balls to knowingly test drive a truck at one place and with the full intention of buying it from another.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
Charger
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:20 am

RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:11 am

[

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 22):
Are you saying that people WANT to be pressured and toyed with like idiotic fools? Wow.

I never said any such thing.
 
ACDC8
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:35 am

My sister was looking at a Nissan Versa a few months back, salesman was pushy as usual, but to make a long story short, she went to KIA and bought a RIO5, a couple of weeks later, she gets a letter in the mail from Nissan. She opens it and finds a certificate congratulating her on her new Nissan Versa purchase and asked if she was enjoying the car.  Confused

I told her to go down to the Nissan dealership and pick it up, and if any of the sales people gave her problems, show them the certificate as proof of purchase .....  Silly
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AA787823
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
He offered me half of what my current truck is worth as a trade and offered me just under list for the Tacoma - $29,500.

Well depending on what your current truck is, it could have been closer to the true market value. Books such as KBB and NADA are rarely accurate to a vehicles true value. They are ment more as a guide and generally are what the banks use to decide how much to finance on a particular vehicle. Many cars, specifically , American cars are usually "back of book". For example a 2006 Ford Taurus may book out for around 12,000 but in reality you would be lucky to get 9,000 for it on a trade.

Dealers can frequently also "show you" what you want for your car when in actuality you are getting less. This is known as an "over allowence". The flip side is a "under allowence" when they are showing you less than they are actually giving you. These numbers can be hidden in the "top price" of the car you are purchasing. Its always best for a consumer to talk cash price on the car they are buying and leave the trade out till you have agreed on a price of the new car. This way you can get an accurate number of what the dealer is actually paying for your car.
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dl021
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:17 pm

Quoting BristolFlyer (Thread starter):
Buying a new car should be fun and exciting, now it's anything but.

That's because you believe that you should not buy a car when you go to the dealership. They put the building up, hired the people, bought the cars and put nice music in for you to listen to......they deserve the opportunity to get you to buy a car from them.

over 70% of the people who go out to look at cars buy one within the first 4 hours of looking, but generally at their 3rd dealership. That's because the first two places wore them down, but did not close effectively. People who are looking want to buy, they sometimes just don't know it.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 2):
if you really didn't want to be "harassed" by people who are just doing their job, then you would've had enough common sense to go at a time/date when the dealership was closed in order to 'just look'.

Yeah....they paid to open the place up and you act like they should'nt try to sell you.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
I HATE the hard sell. That's why I've bought my last four brand new cars from a dealer that pays his salespeople a salary, not minimum wage plus commission.

Which means you got the worst deal out there. The "no-haggle" lots have the highest average markups of any dealerships. The traditional lots are still around because people want them and expect them.
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dl021
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:31 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 9):
Are you one of those slimy, little motherfuckers that got your "degree" in the back of a Dale Carnegie book?

I attended Dale Carnegie classes....am I a slimy motherfucker?

He was quoting a movie called "Suckers" which was funny. Don't be an asshole.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 22):
When I walk into a car sealership, I know exactly which car I want, what options I want, and the maximum I'm willing to spend. If the sales slob couldn't meet my demands, I walked. Also, if he tried giving me the hard sell, tried to push me into changing my mind, or started talking down to me ("This car looks like it was made just for you."), I walked.



Quoting Charger (Reply 18):
And that's exactly the kind of salesperson I tell to kiss my ass.

yeah...you are a real man....you told the guy selling the car to kiss your ass....wow

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 14):
There's a difference between real and stated objections.

actually I think you mean between a real and reflex objection.

Car salespeople are generally undertrained and their managers are almost always undertrained. That's why you need to look for a decent car guy and stick with him. Pay him or her enough to keep them in the business so that whenever you need a car you can call that one person and they can find you whatever you need. Stop cutting their throat over $300 on a $30000 car. Stop lying to them about why you don't want to buy when all it is is that you read you should not buy the first one you look at. Start asking questions about why the car you're looking at is going to work for you. Make the salesperson show you what it is about that car that's going to meet your needs. Chances are that the salesperson knows more about that car than you do, and if you look you'll find the consultants you need.


Here's how to buy a car. Go into the dealership that has the kind of cars you like. Ask the receptionist who the best salesperson in the dealership is......ask her whom she likes the best, and they may be different people, but she'll generally tell you the truth. Get the number one guy to consult with you, even if you need to set an appointment (I usually call ahead, rather than walk in unannounced) and don't talk price right away. Find out if the car is right for you.

Once you find the car you like and you know you can afford the sticker then tell your guy that you'll be asking for dead cost plus a nickel...and you'll give him a perfect survey and refer all your friends to him. When the sales manager comes to you and makes a counteroffer politely say the same thing. If the car is really limited you may not get this price but you'll generally get a better offer. If they don't come down and you think you can do much better elsewhere, then go. But if they give you good reason to pay a little extra because they show you their service after the sale is worthwhile then pay it and make sure you use whatever services they promise.

Stop going to dealerships to make your second largest expenditure in your life with the attitude that you are going to hate it. Any time you spend that much money on something that expresses you and that you'll be spending that much time in you should have fun.

If you're in LA then you should call Concordeboy....he's got connections. Find someone in the business who is long term and can find you what you want. A real pro will have the connections you need and get yo ua fair deal.

Don't go into a dealership with a screwed up attitude and expect to be fairly or well treated. Go in there smiling and do what I said and you'll have fun and get what you want.
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:13 pm

Buying a car should be like buying a shovel at a hardware store. You walk in, look at the variety and prices, pick out the one you want, and take it to the check-out counter.

Why do car salespeople pounce? Why do they assume the customer doesn't know what they're talking about? And why do they insist on pushing that useless, bullshit undercoating, fabric protectant, and add-on clearcoat?

I do my homework before I buy a new car. I spend dozens of hours researching models, trim levels, options, and the various pricing levels, holdbacks, and other means in which the dealer profits. I usually walk in with a list of vehicle, package, and option codes, and my offer. The offer varies, but it's usually a few bucks less than invoice. Entering the data I supplied and placing the order at the dealership takes about 30 minutes. Delivery paperwork takes another 30 to 60 minutes. There's very little work for the salesperson to do. There's no reason he/she should pocket hundreds of dollars for a little over an hour's of work.

[Edited 2007-04-20 06:16:31]
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bristolflyer
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:20 pm

The overwhelming impression I'm getting from this thread is that a lot of people believe that it is the salesperson's job to determine when the customer is ready to buy. I agree with that sometimes (particularly in the case of a really indecisve person) but for the most part - no. I am capable of making a decision myself.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 25):
If you don't like that; then sprout a pair, leave on your own timing, and come back when you're prepared to not waste their time.

So anything other than a purchase is 'wasting their time'?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:42 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 33):
Why do they assume the customer doesn't know what they're talking about?

...because the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of them----- don't. Imagine that.

And even then, the ones who think they have half a clue, more often then not lack the faintest idea of what they're actually doing.... My favorite followup question to a "I don't pay sticker" type is: "well sir/ma'am, what do you plan to pay?"
If they just throw fiscal darts and hope one of 'em sticks to a (usually rather random) figure they'd placed in their minds for whatever reason, then I know I've got 'em. All I need to do is close, the yield will more or less easily be there, if it's any rational figure whatsoever.

If however, they come at me with something along the lines of.... "well, I've found that this car's general invoice is $XX,XXX.xx; so taking into account transportation, TTL, and dealer holdback; I'm prepared to make you an offer of $YY,YYYyy minus this month's applicable rebate of $Z,ZZZ. Do we have a deal?" ....then I know that I've got an educated buyer on my hands and may as well cut to the chase.


Quoting BristolFlyer (Reply 34):

So anything other than a purchase is 'wasting their time'?

Usually.
According to the latest Cardone study, only one out of every 19 "be backs" in the American middlemarket ($13-40K) actually comes back if leaving the dealership for more than 6hrs-- and actually buys.
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:49 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 35):
If however, they come at me with something along the lines of.... "well, I've found that this car's general invoice is $XX,XXX.xx; so taking into account transportation, TTL, and dealer holdback; I'm prepared to make you an offer of $YY,YYYyy minus this month's applicable rebate of $Z,ZZZ. Do we have a deal?" ....then I know that I've got an educated buyer on my hands and may as well cut to the chase.

And that's the way I do it. Anything else simply wastes my time and pisses me off.
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aerorobnz
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:04 pm

If they put the hard sell on you, then you have to play hardball just for the satisfaction of wasting their time. There is something enjoyable about getting them all excited about the sale, and getting them down to a reasonable figure and then just saying No and walking out to the next dealership.
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KaiGywer
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:09 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 3):
One time, I spent almost four hours test driving cars and haggling, only to leave saying, "Thanks for an entertaining afternoon. It was a blast. Bye."

Why am I not surprised, Mark?  rotfl 

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 33):
Buying a car should be like buying a shovel at a hardware store.

Damn you got some expensive shovels over there in dairyland  Smile
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:04 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 36):
And that's the way I do it. Anything else simply wastes my time and pisses me off.

...will that be Oreo or Chocolate Chip?  Yeah sure
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:06 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 39):
...will that be Oreo or Chocolate Chip?

M&M
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Molykote
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RE: Car Dealerships

Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:53 pm

Maybe I'm a sick individual, but I personally enjoy dealing with car dealers.

I find that the whole experience is much better if I let them run through the usual sales tactics at first meeting while not offering much information about myself. After this wave of BS, I reveal through normal conversation what exactly I do (i.e. "I work at the airport" becomes "I provide mtc and engineering support to our aircraft fleet"). I usually keep on hand documentation about my credit score and cash on hand - I let the dealer know that I could buy any car that I'm likely to purchase and that I've received loan approval with X.xx% interest rates.

Once the dealer knows I'm for real it makes the transaction easier for both of us. At this point it's up to the dealer to provide the lowest selling price possible and to attempt to match the overall package I've "built" on my own.

During test drives, I let the dealer start his pitch about the technical features of the car and follow up with questions/comments accordingly depending upon his apparent knowledge of the vehicles. The key here is to not throw around "brochure" terms or to use technical terms in an akward fashion (in such a way that it would suggest you studied them). I'll normally mention some common maintenance problem that my "friend" experienced and talk about how it was a "pain in the ass for us to fix - I'll never understand why (manufacturer) uses this mix of X,Y,Z fasteners" or I'll bring up the valve cover gasket that 'always leaks on these cars at 50k miles'.

It's also important to realize that some vehicles are going to sell at or near sticker simply due to the value they represent at that price point. A year ago my friend wanted one of the new Lexus IS sedans with a manual gearbox (tough to find in this area while most dealers wouldn't bother selling what isn't already on their lot). Eventually he found a dealer in the neighboring state that was willing to ship another dealer's (from yet another state) 6 speed IS250 with all the available options except navigation. He basically paid sticker ($32k) minus an "internet discount" of several hundred dollars. Given that this was a new/hot car and the difficulty in procuring a 6 speed, I'd believe that any better deal would have been insignificant and not worth his time/effort to negotiate.
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Car Dealerships

Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:29 am

A few years ago, one of my tactics was to ask the salesperson, "How does this car compare to a Mercedes?"

I tried it at Tousley Ford in Maplewood, MN. The saleman gave me a pitch that sounded like a memorized script. He actually tried to compare a Ford Focus to a Mercedes C230!  rotfl  I could bearly keep myself from really rotfling. He kept yapping for over five minutes.
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KaiGywer
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RE: Car Dealerships

Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:05 am

Speaking of car dealerships. I test drove 3 cars yesterday  Smile

2004 Chrysler Sebring Convertible $12,995
2005 Volkswagen Golf TDI $15,450
2003 Volkswagen Passat $13,990

The Sebring would be nice in the summer, but the Passat was a great car to drive.
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Charger
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RE: Car Dealerships

Sat Apr 21, 2007 2:47 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 32):
yeah...you are a real man....you told the guy selling the car to kiss your ass....wow

Do you have aproblm??/ Just for the record I will tell anyone to who speaks to me in a condensending way to kiss my ass.

So Kiss my ass!!! Big grin
 
dl021
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RE: Car Dealerships

Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:32 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 33):
Why do they assume the customer doesn't know what they're talking about?

I think Cboy answered that one...

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 33):
Why do they assume the customer doesn't know what they're talking about?

but in case it wasn't clear....99% of the folks looking don't know much about the cars, and don't really know what they need.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 33):
And why do they insist on pushing that useless, bullshit undercoating, fabric protectant, and add-on clearcoat?

Because that stuff makes money for the dealership.....most of it actually works to varying degrees.....but mostly because it makes money for the dealership. Profit.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 33):
I spend dozens of hours researching models, trim levels, options, and the various pricing levels, holdbacks, and other means in which the dealer profits.

Wow....Dozens? Does that actually return a profit for time spent? If I spent dozens of hours per car studying to make sure I got the lowest price then I'd still lose money no matter how much I saved based on my hourly rates...........most cars only have a couple thousand markup at most, unless you're in the high end market where what you're doing doesn't really matter.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 33):
The offer varies, but it's usually a few bucks less than invoice.

Then why bother selling it to you. ...if you're buying the car from the place that has dozens of people working there, providing service, and the salesman who deserves to make a living, and the dealer who risked his money to start a dealership then why should they lose money to sell you a car? Why aren't they allowed a profit? Do you negotiate for that can of peas at the supermarket? Do you negotiate with Northwest for that fare? (Not the ticketbrokers...who don't really negotiate either)...

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 33):
The offer varies, but it's usually a few bucks less than invoice. Entering the data I supplied and placing the order at the dealership takes about 30 minutes. Delivery paperwork takes another 30 to 60 minutes. There's very little work for the salesperson to do. There's no reason he/she should pocket hundreds of dollars for a little over an hour's of work.

What's a fair profit margin in business? 5 to7% seems low....what you're offering isn't even that high...no wonder no one at the dealerships seem to treat you properly.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 35):
My favorite followup question to a "I don't pay sticker" type is: "well sir/ma'am, what do you plan to pay?"

I used to follow that with "well, that's great....I'll let you pay more if you want with my nicest semi-sarcastic (in a smart alec but nice way) voice, smile and either tell them they can pay whatever they're comfortable paying as long as the sales manager oks it, or ask them if they'd like to talk about what they want now that they've made clear what they don't want. Then we'd talk about what kind of car they needed....that's when I dealt with fresh ups....once I was on repeats and referrals it was much easier.....

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 35):
According to the latest Cardone study, only one out of every 19 "be backs" in the American middlemarket ($13-40K) actually comes back if leaving the dealership for more than 6hrs-- and actually buys.

What? You don't have a lifetime supply of "be-back dust" to sprinkle on the folks who leave?

Quoting Charger (Reply 44):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 32):
yeah...you are a real man....you told the guy selling the car to kiss your ass....wow

Do you have aproblm??/ Just for the record I will tell anyone to who speaks to me in a condensending way to kiss my ass.

Dude.....don't tell me that you actually tell people in the real world...to their face...to kiss your ass on a regular basis....internet tigers like that rarely match or mirror their real world selves. You tell someone at a dealership to kiss your ass you'll be asked to leave and possibly worse.....you're providing them with a hostile work environment while being a guest on their property. Only an ass would do that.......so, no, I don't have a problem....but I'll be you do if you actually do tell folks who are trying to sell you something at their RETAIL SALES ESTABLISHMENT into which you walked VOLUNTARILY to kiss your ass.

oh...and one more thing, pumpkin....before you use big words like "condescending" you should learn to spell them properly....

I hope you read this with fresh eyes and see how rude you make yourself seem.

[Edited 2007-04-21 04:37:11]
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Car Dealerships

Sat Apr 21, 2007 11:49 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
Why aren't they allowed a profit?

They make plenty of profit in the service department.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
99% of the folks looking don't know much about the cars, and don't really know what they need.


I must be unusual. I don't buy a expensive item without researching and completely understanding it before I make a decision. You name it. Lawnmowers, BBQ grills, televisions, vacuum cleaners......


Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
Does that actually return a profit for time spent?

You actually put a value on the hour or two you surf the internet before bedtime? You actually think of someone to bill for that time? One of our volunteer EMT's sort of thinks that way. He's a mortgage broker and considers surfing the internet or watching TV a waste of valuable time unless he can bill someone for it. I swear he'd bill someone for dreaming if he could get away with it.

[Edited 2007-04-21 04:52:43]
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Car Dealerships

Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:18 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
99% of the folks looking don't know much about the cars, and don't really know what they need.

...and in the event that they did know either of the above; that still doesn't help them much in terms of finance of comprehending auto profit/loss margins.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 46):

They make plenty of profit in the service department.

...and you seem to believe that a salesperson would care about that (and by extension, alter his/her sales tactics) why?

[Edited 2007-04-21 05:21:34]
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Charger
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RE: Car Dealerships

Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:45 pm

I

Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
Dude.....don't tell me that you actually tell people in the real world...to their face...to kiss your ass on a regular basis

If someone speaks to me in a CONDESCENDING manner, I will without hesitation tell them to kiss my ass, I will not be spoken to in that manner by anyone.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
You tell someone at a dealership to kiss your ass you'll be asked to leave and possibly worse..

Believe me, if it is getting to the point that I am telling a dealer to kiss my ass, I am probably on my way out the door already. Do not try to pressure me into buying anything.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
you're providing them with a hostile work environment while being a guest on their property. Only an ass would do that

Please, if you honestly believe that telling someone to kiss your ass is creating a hostile environment, you wouldn't last 3o minutes where I work.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
actually do tell folks who are trying to sell you something at their RETAIL SALES ESTABLISHMENT into which you walked VOLUNTARILY to kiss your ass.

Yes I walked in voluntarily, to spend MY MONEY. Do not speak to me like I am a dummy, and certainly don't think that I don't know all the BS a salesman spews.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
oh...and one more thing, pumpkin

OK Cantaloupe!!

Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
before you use big words like "condescending" you should learn to spell them properly....

You really hurt my feelings there. CONDESCENDING, is that better now.. Sad

Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
I hope you read this with fresh eyes and see how rude you make yourself seem.

I don't think I am rude at all. I am just very straight forward. As I said just do not speak to me in a manner that I find offensive and we will be fine.
 
707guy
Posts: 203
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RE: Car Dealerships

Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:33 pm

AssChiefMark - Funny thing is no matter how much research you do you'll never find out how much the dealer is making on the car you're buying. I'm sure they've made plenty off of you no matter how much research you do and how much you think you know. I wonder if you would enjoy someone coming into your place of business and wasting your time as you like to do to salespeople. The process of buying a car is driven by the consumer - I never heard so many people lie their asses off - and I'm talking about customers. People who tell you they're "just looking" - so you take it easy on them and provide them with all the answers to all the questions they have - then you follow up with them the next day and they bought a car from the guy down the street... When you work for commission if you don't sell - you don't eat. From your comments I'm sure you've never worked on commission - I'm sure you don't have the guts to take on the challenge... If you want the real scoop - go sell cars for a few months and get the whole story.

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