Banco
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Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 2:20 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6609385.stm

Actually, a more tricky situation than might seem to be the case. He's expressed his desire to serve on the front line, but he would undoubtedly be a target. If he's comfortable with that, fine, but it also puts those serving alongside him at greater risk. It seems unlikely he'll be kept out of harm's way too.
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deltagator
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 2:25 am

Interesting situation. It's good to see that he is more than willing to serve and risk his life. I understand the concerns but it isn't like the Brits are going to put out a press release to Haji on a daily basis giving the social schedule of the Prince and where he'll be shooting at the bad guys. If they follow normal OPSEC rules he shouldn't be under much more danger than any other British soldier over there.

Edit: Grammar

[Edited 2007-04-30 19:36:39]
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 2:26 am

Quoting Banco (Thread starter):

not a good idea
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Thom@s
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 2:29 am

With daily personal threats from the Iraqi resistance, and the taliban, I can't see why he is so eager to serve in the front line...

Thom@s
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Banco
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 2:30 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 2):
not a good idea

I'd welcome a more expanded response than that.
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TedTAce
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 2:31 am

Considering he is willing, Prince Harry NEEDs to serve on the front line. While his mother would HATE the idea of him being in danger, I'm positive she would 'get' the example he needs to set.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting Banco (Thread starter):
he would undoubtedly be a target

Not any moreso than anyone else. All wrapped up inthe required gear, no one is really gonna know which schmuck out there is the Princely Lieutenant and who is Tommy Tentpeg.

. . . . .

I don't think he had a choice really. If he didn't go, the screams of favoritism and priviledge would resound for years. Sorta like Bush and Cheney ya know.

Quoting Banco (Thread starter):
If he's comfortable with that, fine, but it also puts those serving alongside him at greater risk.

Disagree.

As was mentioned, OPSEC rules, etc . . . no one will know - or rather no one SHOULD know - when the Prince is out and about. There are always possibilities, but slim, IMO.

. . . . .

Good call Lieutenant . . . everyone should serve their country in some capacity.
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Banco
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 2:34 am

Quoting Thom@s (Reply 3):
can't see why he is so eager to serve in the front line...

For the same reason anyone else joins the army. He deserves some credit here; he made it abundantly clear that he wasn't prepared to be a token Royal in the military, he wanted to be treated exactly as anyone else who joined the army, and sent on the same kind of deployments. That actually reflects well on him.
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Banco
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 2:37 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
Disagree.

As was mentioned, OPSEC rules, etc . . . no one will know - or rather no one SHOULD know - when the Prince is out and about. There are always possibilities, but slim, IMO.

Well, presumably that's the conclusion the army came to, as well. Certainly, when the whole matter was being publicly debated, they were quick to say that it wasn't simply a case of what the prince wanted, it was a question of whether it would put others at increased risk.
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CastleIsland
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 2:51 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 7):
He deserves some credit here; he made it abundantly clear that he wasn't prepared to be a token Royal in the military, he wanted to be treated exactly as anyone else who joined the army, and sent on the same kind of deployments. That actually reflects well on him.

Absolutely. I mean, I doubt he is looking forward to being on the front line, but he's taking a step that shows his true colours. Godspeed to him and all those over there.
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legoguy
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 4:14 am

He's one brave prince. With all these threats from the Iraqi resistance, and the Taliban, he certainly is putting on a brave face. Big thumps up to him, although I do think sending him to Iraq is a bad idea. Resistance may be increased by the Iraqi's to try and increase the chances of capturing/killing the prince.

Also, what if he actually is captured. All hell will break lose in England and among the British servicemen in Iraq. And threats to send his ears back by post to the royal family... crikey  worried 
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 4:41 am

I think he will at least have full support from his grandparents. After all Prince Philipp served in the Royal Navy in WW2 and afterwards and saw action (AFAIK he commanded a destroyer, though I don't know if it was during or after the war. I know that after he married his wife, they were based for a year or so in Malta, until King George died and his wife became the Queen. This time was described as the happiest time of their lives). The Queen joined the ATS (Auxiliary Territorial Service = Women's organisation of the British army back then) against the will of her parents when she reached the age of 18 in 1945 and served as a driver / mechanic.

About since WW1, in a combat zone officers and NCOs try to look like ordinary soldiers anyway, often with the rank badges removed from the uniform (within a platoon or a company the soldiers know each other anyway, so there is no need to wear NCO stripes or officer's pips in the field) so that they will not become a target for snipers.


Jan
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Banco
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 5:50 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 11):
After all Prince Philipp served in the Royal Navy in WW2 and afterwards and saw action (AFAIK he commanded a destroyer, though I don't know if it was during or after the war.

Prince Philip was by all accounts a genuinely outstanding naval officer, who could have gone right to the top. Having to give up his career must have been a dreadful wrench for him.
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Pyrex
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 5:59 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
no one is really gonna know which schmuck out there is the Princely Lieutenant and who is Tommy Tentpeg.

Maybe the badge with the words "Wales" splattered around his helmet will give it a way?

Quoting Banco (Reply 7):
he made it abundantly clear that he wasn't prepared to be a token Royal in the military, he wanted to be treated exactly as anyone else who joined the army, and sent on the same kind of deployments.

Yeah, right. And I have a nice oceanfront property to sell to you in Arizona.

Quoting Banco (Reply 8):
it was a question of whether it would put others at increased risk.

It does. Not that he cares, the selfish little twit he is.

Well, at least there finally is something to unite the Shias and the Sunnis. Perhaps there is hope for Iraq after all.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 13):
Maybe the badge with the words "Wales" splattered around his helmet will give it a way?

What badge with the word WALES? That's not even his last name . . . .

Wanna produce a picture of such a badge? For that matter, any badge with the name WALES or anything else emblazoned on it upon the head of a British Soldier?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 13):
It does. Not that he cares, the selfish little twit he is.

You know the prince? You're able to make the determination he's a selfish little twit?

Such high company you keep.  sarcastic 
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 13):
Not that he cares, the selfish little twit he is.

Given the very specific threats made against him - "selfish" - doesn't seem appropriate. Big Iron Balls might be better.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
What badge with the word WALES? That's not even his last name . . . .

That is his name. Or - the name he uses. He and his brother are entitled to use their father's title as their last name. He is known in the army as "Cornet (his rank) Harry Wales".

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Pyrex
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
Wanna produce a picture of such a badge?



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
That's not even his last name . . . .

I know...

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
You're able to make the determination he's a selfish little twit?

He is a monarch. He has expressed no desire to abdicate and stop being a monarch. Hence, he is a selfish little twit.
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mariner
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 16):
He is a monarch.

He is not "a monarch" - his grandmother is. In the normal course of events it is unlilkely that he will ever be "a monarch".

He cannot abdicate from a position he does not have.

???

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MD11Engineer
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 14):
Maybe the badge with the words "Wales" splattered around his helmet will give it a way?

What badge with the word WALES? That's not even his last name . . . .

Wanna produce a picture of such a badge? For that matter, any badge with the name WALES or anything else emblazoned on it upon the head of a British Soldier?

Pep,

In the British Army Harry goes under the name Lt. Wales (isn't his correct family name Windsor?). In accordance with British Army regs he wears an embroidered name badge (similar to the one you guys wear above the right breast pocket on your BDUs) on his helmet cover front. I have seen several pictures of him wearing the helmet on the BBC. I think in a combat zone this badge would be removed.

Jan
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 4):

Ok , It´s obvius that the Terrorist will hunt him , why ignore that , he´s far more endangered that other "normal" soldiers ...


Konstantin
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777236ER
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:25 am

Regardless of the details, I don't know if having an officer in the armed forces is a great thing when photos of him dressed as a Nazi have been seen around the world. But nevertheless I don't think this is much of an issue. Barring a major cockup no one will know exactly where he is or what he's doing. And ultimately if he is killed it frankly won't be the PR coup for the terrorists some think it is. His capture is another matter, but that would take a marked shift in terrorist tactics, and is unlikely.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 16):
He has expressed no desire to abdicate and stop being a monarch. Hence, he is a selfish little twit.

Exactly why should he abdicate? Because he's in the Army? Because he's Harry Wales?

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
similar to the one you guys wear above the right breast pocket on your BDUs)

And also across the helmet band on our helmets.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
I think in a combat zone this badge would be removed.

As ours generally are.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
isn't his correct family name Windsor?).

Yes.

Thanks for the info Jan . . .
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:31 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 20):
His capture is another matter, but that would take a marked shift in terrorist tactics, and is unlikely.

Not really. There is a veritable industry in Iraq nowadays abducting people and holding them for ransom or propaganda effect...
 
777236ER
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:35 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 22):

Not really. There is a veritable industry in Iraq nowadays abducting people and holding them for ransom or propaganda effect...

Yes really. There is a significance difference between kidnapping a civilian and a soldier.
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tz757300
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:38 am

I think he should most definitely serve in Iraq. He is part of the Army and personally, I think him serving in Iraq will being a sense of nobility to the throne. The Prince protecting his troops...sounds like something out of a medieval story. Very nice.
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Pyrex
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:44 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
Exactly why should he abdicate? Because he's in the Army? Because he's Harry Wales?

He should abdicate because he is a monarch - you see, I am very tolerant that way, I hate all monarchs equally. It is not his fault he was born into a "noble" family, it is his fault that he continues the tradition. He is an adult, old enough to make up his own mind and be liable for his action. That fact that he has not publicly denounced his upbringing and the form of dictatorship that his family participates on makes him an accoumplice.

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 24):
sounds like something out of a medieval story.

That just sounds right, being monarchy such a medieval institution. Maybe when he comes back he can have a jousting tournament, have two tanks speed against each other see who can knock the other out with the turret.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 25):
He should abdicate because he is a monarch - you see, I am very tolerant that way, I hate all monarchs equally. It is not his fault he was born into a "noble" family, it is his fault that he continues the tradition. He is an adult, old enough to make up his own mind and be liable for his action. That fact that he has not publicly denounced his upbringing and the form of dictatorship that his family participates on makes him an accoumplice.

Ahhh, okay . . . it's not Prince Harry with the problem, it's you with the problem. You hate Monarchs . . . well, hell, that's all the more reason the Prince should hang up his crown then isn't it.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:56 am

During the Falklands war Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew was deliberately kept out of combat by his superiors, who feared having something happen to him while on their watch, though he was a qualified helicopter pilot based on one of the RN ships down there. The result was that all kinds of rumours started spreading about "cowardly Randy Andy" having spent the war sh*gging the nurses in the ship's hospital.
Harry IS a trained soldier and keeping him out of combat, while his mates go to fight would be dead embarrassing for him.
AFAIK he threatened to resign his commision if he would be ordered to stay at home, IMO he has a point, since it would make no sense to train him and then deny him the opportunity to use his skills.

Jan
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mariner
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 25):
He should abdicate because he is a monarch

Once again, he is not a monarch.

Once again, he cannot abdicate from a position he does not have.

mariner
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airfoilsguy
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 25):
That fact that he has not publicly denounced his upbringing and the form of dictatorship that his family participates on makes him an accoumplice.

Being a little harsh now arn't we? Its not like he or his family is actively suppressing the masses. The monarchy in England are just figure heads. Nothing to get excited about.
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Pyrex
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 7:21 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 28):
Once again, he is not a monarch.

Once again, he cannot abdicate from a position he does not have.

You know what I meant but sure, let's be anal about this whole royal / monarch separation.

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 29):
Being a little harsh now arn't we? Its not like he or his family is actively suppressing the masses. The monarchy in England are just figure heads. Nothing to get excited about.

No, I don't think I am being harsh (with him or any monarchy). If you see images of royal weddings you get to see the likes of the King of Saudi Arabia, the Sheik of Qatar, etc. among the guests - if they are not discerning enough to make a distinction between an absolutist monarchy and a "figurehead" one then why should I be?

Besides:
a) no MP in the UK can take office without swearing allegiance to his grandmother, no matter what they think of her
b) no UK citizen is allowed to even aspire to become the head of state of his own country unless they are born into the "Windsor" family (or to be correct nowadays, Mountbatten or whatever his grandad is called)
c) his grandmother's job as head of the Church of England oficially makes his country as the only one in Europe with a state religion

The list goes on and on
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mariner
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 7:26 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 30):
You know what I meant

No, I don't.

If you mean that the Prince should renounce his title, yes, he could do that.

But he would also be renouncing his obligation to serve his country, in good times - and in bad.

Is that what you want?

mariner
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Pyrex
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 7:39 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 31):
But he would also be renouncing his obligation to serve his country, in good times - and in bad.

Renouncing the title would not mean abandoning his obligation to serve the country. Are you suggesting that the only way he has of serving his country is by wearing a silly hat and waving at people? I know in-breeding is a family tradition but I doubt even he is that thick.
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 7:46 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 32):
Are you suggesting that the only way he has of serving his country is by wearing a silly hat and waving at people?

Not at all. I am saying that part of that oblagation is to serve in the army, in the front line, even at the cost of his life.

You don't like it? Fine. Become a British citizen and work to change it.

But why insult someone who is fulfilling their duty as part of that system.

mariner
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Pyrex
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 33):
Not at all. I am saying that part of that obligation is to serve in the army, in the front line, even at the cost of his life.

I am not suggesting he leave the Army, I suggested he renounce his title as a royal. They are two different things (I would venture to say that most soldiers in the British Army do not have "Prince" before their first name). It was you who said:

Quoting Mariner (Reply 31):

If you mean that the Prince should renounce his title, yes, he could do that.

But he would also be renouncing his obligation to serve his country, in good times - and in bad.

Implying that the only way he could serve his country (whether by going to war for it or doing something else) was to remain a royal.
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sprout5199
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 8:06 am

Good for him and good for the Army in letting him. And don't worry about him getting kidnapped,every man in his outfit would die before it happens, and I bet there will be a few S.A.S. troopers in his platoon, just to keep an eye on the young LT. And if it did happen, look what happened to the IRA when they killed Lord Mountbatten. The $hit would hit the fan.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 34):

I don't know what's up your ass about monarchys but do you live there? No? then shut up. If it works for them, so be it. The man did not choose to whom he was born to, however, he is doing what he feels is best for Queen and Country, and that is all you can ask of a man.

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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 8:14 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 34):
Implying that the only way he could serve his country (whether by going to war for it or doing something else) was to remain a royal.

Nope, not saying that at all. Why do you keep putting words in my mouth - is my English that bad?

LOL

mariner
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BMIFlyer
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 8:19 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 6):
All wrapped up inthe required gear, no one is really gonna know which schmuck out there is the Princely Lieutenant and who is Tommy Tentpeg.

Exactly.

Harry want's to serve, it's the press that seems to think he shouldn't!.

However he wanted to join the Army so he could serve the country, not just to sit behind a desk.

Good on the man for wanting that, i'd be proud to serve under his command to be honest.

Good luck Harry (Sir)  Smile
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BMIFlyer
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
In the British Army Harry goes under the name Lt. Wales (isn't his correct family name Windsor?). In accordance with British Army regs he wears an embroidered name badge (similar to the one you guys wear above the right breast pocket on your BDUs) on his helmet cover front. I have seen several pictures of him wearing the helmet on the BBC. I think in a combat zone this badge would be removed.

We also wear them above our left breast pocket as well  

Technically in combat these are removed, however there are other ways of identifying you, as we need to know who you are when we are recovering you as a battlefield casualty.


Lee

[Edited 2007-05-01 01:24:02]
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Pyrex
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 8:28 am

Quoting Sprout5199 (Reply 35):
do you live there? No? then shut up

Why should I? Should I shut up about the way women are treated in Iran because I do not live there? Should I not be allowed to comment on the fact that the Turkish people are willingly putting into place a person that may threaten the secularism of the state because I am not a Turk? Or, gasp, should I not be able to free Iraq from Saddam because I am not Iraqi?

Democracy, indissoluble from secularism and incompatible with monarchy, is a universal philosophical concept. It is open for debate anywhere in this planet, whether in Portugal, the US or the United Kingdom.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 36):
Nope, not saying that at all.



Quoting Mariner (Reply 31):
If you mean that the Prince should renounce his title, yes, he could do that.

But he would also be renouncing his obligation to serve his country

It doesn't get any more clear than that. If you aren't able to own up to your own words or correct any misunderstandings you might have caused then it's not my problem.
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mariner
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 8:42 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 39):
If you aren't able to own up to your own words or correct any misunderstandings you might have caused then it's not my problem.

Oh, come on - that's such an old trick. Of course, I stand by - "own up to" - those words. LOL

And it is hard to see how they could be any clearer, but I'll make it as easy as I can:

When his grandmother's uncle abdicated his title and all that goes with it, as a tandem (if unstated) action he also renounced his obligations to his country - and never lived in that country again.

???

mariner

[Edited 2007-05-01 01:43:39]
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JGPH1A
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 6:54 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 12):
who could have gone right to the top.

I thought he did - isn't he/wasn't he Admiral of the Fleet /First Lord of the Admiralty (or whatever the correct term is - maybe First Lord is the Prime Minister, I forget.) I'm sure I've seen him in naval uniform with gold rings up to his elbows.
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BigTom
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 7:27 pm

That Prince Harry want's to serve on the front line is commendable. However considering who he is and what he represents to the UK, I would feel that the Army should keep him out of harm's way. Better that than risk him being paraded on video in case he is captured. I know that there will be many who will shout about unfair privileges but that IMO is probably the best workable solution.

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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 7:46 pm

This was the only logical decision to take, yes there is a risk of the third in line to the throne being killed. But if we had stopped him going they would have won and the nations armed forces would have been made a laughing stock.

The insurgents throw out threats left, right and centre like they rule Iraq. They don't and god willing never will!

DSA
Go Skybus!!!!
 
Pyrex
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 8:50 pm

Quoting Mariner (Reply 40):
When his grandmother's uncle abdicated his title and all that goes with it, as a tandem (if unstated) action he also renounced his obligations to his country - and never lived in that country again.

So the fact that he was kicked out of the country because he loved someone who was divorced (extremely hipocritical, given that the Church he was supposed to head eventually only exists because a king was fed up with his wife) automatically implies that all those who decide to live in the real world will be automatically exiled?
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ferengi80
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 8:51 pm

Prince Harry is going to be an incredible target if he does go to Iraq. The Taliban will know he is going, and will be looking to kidnap him whenever they can. That is why he should definitely not go in to battle. He is third in line to the throne, and would be the perfect ransom for the enemy.

In response to several comments, Prince Harry is not a Monarch, he is a Prince. There is only one Monarch in the British Royal Family, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. Prince Harry's family name is Windsor, but as he is the son of the Prince of Wales, he is entitled to use the surname Wales. Harry is a 2nd Lieutenant, but as he serves with the Blues and Royals, the rank is transferred to Cornet, their equivalent of a 2nd Lieutenant.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 27):
During the Falklands war Harry's uncle, Prince Andrew was deliberately kept out of combat by his superiors, who feared having something happen to him while on their watch, though he was a qualified helicopter pilot based on one of the RN ships down there. The result was that all kinds of rumours started spreading about "cowardly Randy Andy" having spent the war sh*gging the nurses in the ship's hospital.

Sorry to contradict you, MD11, but Andrew flew several dangerous helicopter missions during the Falklands war, and actually defied his father, the Duke of Edinburgh, by going to the Falklands in the first place.

Andrews as part of the British naval task force which sailed to the South Atlantic to regain the Falkland Islands from Argentina.

Famously, he flew as a so-called Exocet decoy to protect warships from missile attack.

Throughout the war he flew on various combat missions, helped in casualty evacuation, transport, and search and air rescue.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 25):
He should abdicate because he is a monarch

As already stated, Harry is not a monarch. He is a Prince. A Prince cannot abdicate. The only person who can abdicate is the Monarch, who is the Head of State.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 30):
You know what I meant but sure, let's be anal about this whole royal / monarch separation.

I'm not quite sure what you mean about the royal/monarch seperation. It really is quite simple. The Monarch is the head of the Royal Family, thus Queen Elizabeth II is the Monarch of the British Royal Family.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 30):
Besides:
a) no MP in the UK can take office without swearing allegiance to his grandmother, no matter what they think of her
b) no UK citizen is allowed to even aspire to become the head of state of his own country unless they are born into the "Windsor" family (or to be correct nowadays, Mountbatten or whatever his grandad is called)
c) his grandmother's job as head of the Church of England oficially makes his country as the only one in Europe with a state religion

a) MPs in the UK swear allegiance to the Head of State, which, I believe, is the same in the majority of Countries globally.
b) the majority of UK citizens would not want to be Head of State, we are more than happy with the Monarchy. I for one am a Royalist, and am a big supporter of the Royal family.
c) Utter rubbish. The Church of England is not a State Religion, it is merely another form of the Christian faith.
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Pyrex
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 9:03 pm

Quoting Ferengi80 (Reply 45):
b) the majority of UK citizens would not want to be Head of State, we are more than happy with the Monarchy. I for one am a Royalist, and am a big supporter of the Royal family.

Ah, the typical trap all monarchists always fall for. What the "majority" in this case wants is absolutely irrelevant, as the whole point of a democracy is to protect the rights of the individual.

Wanting to be Head of State is a right of an individual person. You can, of course, choose not exercise your right but neither you nor anyone else can force me to abdicate my right. So, just as long as there is even one person in Britain that does indeed want to be Head of State then in no way can you call yourselves a democracy.

If you can absolutely guarantee to me that:
a) No adult currently with the British nationality wants to be Head of State
b) Of the hundreds or thousands of British people that turn 18 every day no-one wants to be Head of State

Then yes, you can call yourselves a democracy
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QANTASforever
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 9:10 pm

(Runs up, panting)

Don't worry everyone, I'm here! (grumble).

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 24):
I think him serving in Iraq will being a sense of nobility to the throne.

That sounds like it could have come straight from HRH The Princess Michael of Kent.

Look, I say let him go to Iraq. If he wants to place himself in danger - then let him. It's his decision. If he gets knocked off then the Duke of York will be there to take his place, as are the thousands of people in the line of succession (that is, what it is there for).

Now! If William wanted to go (considering he is the heir to the heir) one must consider that if he were to become King under the current situation, he'd be King of Canada and King of New Zealand - both of these government who officially act through the radiating power of the monarch have vehemently opposed the war in and subsequent occupation of Iraq. I that is a serious implication, as it would draw into question the seriousness with which King William V took the Statute of Westminster and the monarch's so called "impartiality".

Be wary that a future lies ahead of these Princes.

QFF
Fighting for the glory of the Australian Republic.
 
ferengi80
Posts: 484
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 10:38 pm

Pyrex, are you a British citizen? If not, how can you possibly make the comments you do? It is the right of every person of a nation to want to be head of state in a Republic. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is not a Republic, it is a Kingdom, hence we have a Monarch as head of state. That is our democracy. As a free nation, anyone is entitled to enter politics, and have their say as is the right given under freedom of speech, which we believe in. However, you are obviously not understanding of the full set up in the UK, otherwise you would not be making ludicrous remarks such as: -

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 46):
So, just as long as there is even one person in Britain that does indeed want to be Head of State then in no way can you call yourselves a democracy

We are one of the most democratic nations in the World, let that be known and understood!

To try to take over as Head of State in the UK would make one guilty of High Treason, the only crime in the UK which still carries the death penalty. Let it be known that if anyone tries to commit High Treason, I will carry out that death penalty myself!!!

GOD SAVE QUEEN!
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JGPH1A
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RE: Prince Harry Will Serve In Iraq

Tue May 01, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 47):
Don't worry everyone, I'm here! (grumble).

Better late than never ! Tsk tsk - colonials, no sense of timing. Comes from living at the wrong end of the world.

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 47):
Now! If William wanted to go (considering he is the heir to the heir) one must consider that if he were to become King under the current situation, he'd be King of Canada and King of New Zealand - both of these government who officially act through the radiating power of the monarch have vehemently opposed the war in and subsequent occupation of Iraq. I that is a serious implication, as it would draw into question the seriousness with which King William V took the Statute of Westminster and the monarch's so called "impartiality".

Very interesting constitutional point. Would William as head of state of, for example, New Zealand, full under any war crimes jurisdiction of a New Zealand court ? Purely hypothetically of course - and would he enjoy anything like sovereign immunity from prosecution if (say) he served in a military conflict and was (heaven forfend) accused of war crimes ? Would his citizenship be considered British or New Zealand ? Hmmmmm.
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