Sabena332
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"Mac OS/X" And "Boot-Camp" Questions

Tue May 01, 2007 9:03 am

Hello Klaus (  Wink ) and other Mac geeks,

I finally decided to buy a notebook computer with an apple sign on it Big grin (MacBook 2.0 Ghz). I learned that there is a program called "Boot Camp" which allows you to run Windows on a Mac (fair for people like me in case I fed up with OS/X after a day  Silly ). Currently there is only a Beta version available but a friend told me that a full final version will be integrated in the new Mac OS/X Leopard. He couldn't tell me more because he is only using OS/X so I have few questions:

At first: Is it recommendable to have both Mac OS/X and Windows on a MacBook or is there any risk (of crashes for example)?

Furthermore:

- Is it recommendable to wait for Leopard to get the non-Beta version of Boot Camp, will it be better (is it recommendable to wait for Leopard in general)?

- Does Windows run without problems on a Mac or are there any functions I can't use?

- I assume that the usual viruses can reach my Mac through Windows, is there anything special I have to pay attention to or is a usual firewall/anti-virus program enough?

- How much will an upgrade from the current Mac OS/X Tiger to Leopard cost? Do I also have to reinstall (or change something at) the Windows part when I upgrade from Tiger to Leopard?

Thanks for any input!

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
concordegboad
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RE: "Mac OS/X" And "Boot-Camp" Questions

Tue May 01, 2007 6:31 pm

Klaus will go into FAR more detail that I will, however I recommend Parallels Desktop (www.parallels.com)

You can natively run Windows (XP/Vista) amongst other operating systems from the Mac desktop. This is what I use and it is easier as you don't have to 'reboot' into other OS's.

I recently acquired a MacBook myself and am from the Windows world. It isn't perfect, but it works well.
 
Klaus
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RE: "Mac OS/X" And "Boot-Camp" Questions

Tue May 01, 2007 10:33 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Thread starter):
At first: Is it recommendable to have both Mac OS/X and Windows on a MacBook or is there any risk (of crashes for example)?

None beyond the risk of having Windows on any other computer. It is very important, however, to heed Apple's recommendation to use at least Windows XP Service Pack 2 - I've recently supported someone who got his harddisk partitioning fried by an older XP during Windows installation!

For MacOS X it's simply another partition on the harddisk.

Quoting Sabena332 (Thread starter):
Is it recommendable to wait for Leopard to get the non-Beta version of Boot Camp, will it be better (is it recommendable to wait for Leopard in general)?

Leopard's revised release date has been announced as October '07, so it depends on your level of impatience relative to the upgrade price.

Technically I see no reason to wait.

Boot camp assists you in partitioning your drive, prepares a boot selector for switching back and forth between MacOS X and Windows and lets you burn a hardware driver disk for Windows (Vista drivers have recently been added). That's it. It doesn't do anything beyond that.

Quoting Sabena332 (Thread starter):
Does Windows run without problems on a Mac or are there any functions I can't use?

I myself don't need or use Boot Camp (Parallels Desktop fits my needs much better), but as far as I'm aware, you should be able to use your Mac like any other PC.

Apple's documentation here:
Boot Camp Beta: Requirements, installation, and frequently asked questions (FAQ) should answer most of your questions;

Specifically:

Quote:
What is included on the Macintosh Driver CD?

With Boot Camp Beta 1.1, the Macintosh Drivers CD includes drivers to support these within Windows XP:

  Apple Bluetooth [1.0.0.1]
  Apple Keyboard Support [1.0.0.1]
  Apple Trackpad [1.0.0.0]
  iSight Camera [1.0.0.0]
  Startup Disk Control Panel for Windows XP [1.0.0.3]
  Atheros 802.11 Wireless [4.2.2.27]
  ATI Graphics [8.27.0.0]
  Broadcom Wireless [4.80.28.7]
  Intel Chipset Software [6.2.1]
  Intel Integrated Graphics [6.14.10.4543]
  Marvel Yukon Ethernet [8.49.2.3]
  nVidia Graphics [9.1.3.1]
  Realtek Audio [5.10.0.5267]
  SigmaTel Audio [5.1.0.5082.0]


Are there any Macintosh features that I should not expect to work when running Windows XP on an Intel-based Macintosh computer?

Even after installling the Macintosh Drivers CD, the Apple Remote Control (IR), Apple Wireless (Bluetooth) keyboard or mouse, Apple USB Modem, MacBook Pro's sudden motion sensor, and MacBook Pro's ambient light sensor will not function correctly when running Windows.

The main Boot Camp information page is here:
Apple - Boot Camp

Quoting Sabena332 (Thread starter):
I assume that the usual viruses can reach my Mac through Windows, is there anything special I have to pay attention to or is a usual firewall/anti-virus program enough?

"Enough" is a relative term in that regard... If you're installing Windows, you'll need to observe all the same rules and you're subject to the same problems as on any PC.

Normally Windows will not be able to read from or write to the MacOS X partition which will serve as a kind of protective firewall, but that is not an absolute protection. And, of course, if you're installing an HFS driver for Windows, the door would be wide open.

Quoting Sabena332 (Thread starter):
How much will an upgrade from the current Mac OS/X Tiger to Leopard cost?

A new major version usually costs €130,- for a single license or €199,- for a "family pack" (for up to five machines in the same household).

Quoting Sabena332 (Thread starter):
Do I also have to reinstall (or change something at) the Windows part when I upgrade from Tiger to Leopard?

Highly unlikely. The Windows drivers for the Mac hardware will just keep working. And on the Mac side system upgrades are usually painless.

The Boot Camp beta will expire at some point after Leopard's release, but as far as I'm aware existing installations would not be affected; Just your capability to create new ones.


As ConcordeGBOAD already said, in most cases a virtualization solution such as Parallels Desktop will be more practical for running legacy Windows applications. Boot Camp is at this point only needed if 3D acceleration is required (for games, usually) or if more than one CPU core is absolutely needed under Windows (current Parallels versions don't give more than one core to the virtualized PC yet, but VMWare already does; although Parallels is all around more useful right now).

Parallels is also capable of running an existing Boot Camp installation from within MacOS X, so if you need that separate partition anyway, you can user it either way if you want.

You can set up Parallels so it can "see" certain folders on your Mac partition; Cut and paste will also work cross-platform.

But full drag-and-drop support across the border would require full access for Windows to the MacOS partition which I do not recommend for security reasons, even under Parallels. The only exception would be a strictly segregated Windows installation without any way of communicating to the outside world and with heightened security (which would also mean no native booting via Boot Camp). So cross-platform drag-and-drop under Parallels may be convenient, but as usual it would incur additional risks.
 
Sabena332
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RE: "Mac OS/X" And "Boot-Camp" Questions

Tue May 01, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting ConcordeGBOAD (Reply 1):
I recently acquired a MacBook myself and am from the Windows world. It isn't perfect, but it works well.

Good to hear that!

Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
(Vista drivers have recently been added)

Perfect, I can get Windows Vista Business from a friend.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
Boot Camp Beta: Requirements, installation, and frequently asked questions (FAQ)



Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
The main Boot Camp information page is here:
Apple - Boot Camp

Thanks for the links, very interesting information there!

Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
A new major version usually costs €130,- for a single license or €199,- for a "family pack" (for up to five machines in the same household).

That's a fair price IMO, a friend and me could even share the costs.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
Highly unlikely. The Windows drivers for the Mac hardware will just keep working. And on the Mac side system upgrades are usually painless.

That's good, I don't fancy a complete "renovation" of the MacBook after a few months.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
Boot Camp is at this point only needed if 3D acceleration is required (for games, usually)

I admit, once or twice a month I am playing Counterstrike with a few friends, thus I need Boot Camp.

Thanks a lot for the interesting and competent information, Klaus! This is greatly appreciated!

I hope that it is possible to leave work a bit earlier next Monday to pay the computer shop in Dortmund a visit (this lazy folks already close at 4 PM  grumpy  ) to get my new toy.  cheerful 

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
Klaus
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RE: "Mac OS/X" And "Boot-Camp" Questions

Wed May 02, 2007 12:26 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 3):

Perfect, I can get Windows Vista Business from a friend.



Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 3):

That's a fair price IMO, a friend and me could even share the costs.

Ahem... we were all of course completely unable to decipher parts of your post above...!  angel 

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 3):
I admit, once or twice a month I am playing Counterstrike with a few friends, thus I need Boot Camp.

Okay, but make sure that it'll run okay on the hardware you're looking at. Chipset graphics may not be up to the task. The Mac mini, iMac 17" (base model) or MacBook non-Pro all use the integrated Intel GMA 950 GPU.

A non-basic iMac or a MacBook Pro will provide much higher 3D performance (ATI mobility Radeon X1600 with 256MB graphics RAM).

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 3):
Thanks a lot for the interesting and competent information, Klaus! This is greatly appreciated!

You're welcome! Have fun!  bigthumbsup 
 
Sabena332
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RE: "Mac OS/X" And "Boot-Camp" Questions

Wed May 02, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 4):
A non-basic iMac or a MacBook Pro will provide much higher 3D performance (ATI mobility Radeon X1600 with 256MB graphics RAM).

Thanks for the tip! A MacBook Pro cost several €'s more. Damn, I have to check my finances.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
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yowza
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RE: "Mac OS/X" And "Boot-Camp" Questions

Wed May 02, 2007 2:37 am

I'm considering headed Macwards too. I just have one further question. Assuming I get a Macbook pro and run Vista on it will I have any problems using the wireless card to jump on my exisiting wirelss router for internet connectivity or will I be forced to buy an "airport?" I gather there is some difference in protocols.

YOWza
 
gkirk
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RE: "Mac OS/X" And "Boot-Camp" Questions

Wed May 02, 2007 3:10 am

Sorry to hear that you've chosen the downgrade  Sad
 duck 
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
WSOY
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RE: "Mac OS/X" And "Boot-Camp" Questions

Wed May 02, 2007 3:39 am

Nothing ages faster than a 3d card, a quick comparison of notebook chips is: here
"Nukkuessa tulee nälkä" (Nipsu)
 
Klaus
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RE: "Mac OS/X" And "Boot-Camp" Questions

Wed May 02, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 6):
Assuming I get a Macbook pro and run Vista on it will I have any problems using the wireless card to jump on my exisiting wirelss router for internet connectivity or will I be forced to buy an "airport?" I gather there is some difference in protocols.

No, you can use a Windows PC (or a Mac acting like one) with an Airport base station as far as I'm aware. Just like you can use a Mac with a standard Wifi router (like I do).

Things get slightly more tricky when using the new 803.11n draft mode which offers increased performance but is not standardized yet, so Apple (like everybody else) uses one of the several slightly different implementations at this point. Those differences are supposed to be ironed out through a firmware upgrade once the final standard has been passed.

All other modes (11a/b/g) used by existing gear should just work.

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 7):
Sorry to hear that you've chosen the downgrade

Yeah. Switching to a platform which offers everything the old one does plus more will really limit yourself, right...?  crazy   hypnotized 

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