S12PPL
Topic Author
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HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 5:22 am

In the Portland subburb of Molalla, arrests have been made after there were allegations that players from the school's varsity boys basketball team raped a boy on the freshman team...

This story is just flat out shocking to me. I'm just amazed this sort of thing would happen...

http://www.kgw.com/news-local/storie..._high_school_arrests.2edb756d.html
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767Lover
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 5:29 am

Christ.

Kids today scare me.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting S12PPL (Thread starter):
I'm just amazed this sort of thing would happen...

Amazed, hardly. That's what justice is here to do. Hopefully it will be swift and the maximum. What gives anyone the right to violate anyone else?
You can't cure stupid
 
S12PPL
Topic Author
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 2):
Amazed, hardly. That's what justice is here to do. Hopefully it will be swift and the maximum. What gives anyone the right to violate anyone else?

What's more...The 17 and 18 year olds are charged as adults...They're gonna be put in the state pen in Salem...And I know a guy that is a guard there...The child rapists are given a very warm welcome there. I have a feeling they'll get to feel the same pain they inflicted on that poor kid soon.
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EWRCabincrew
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 3):
The 17 and 18 year olds are charged as adults

They should be. They did an adult crime, they do the adult time.

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 3):
I have a feeling they'll get to feel the same pain they inflicted on that poor kid soon.

Boo friggin' hoo.  redflag  Don't want to feel that type of pain, humiliation and punishment? Don't do the crime. It really is that simple. They made choices (and chose poorly).

Serves them right.
You can't cure stupid
 
777236ER
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 4):
They should be. They did an adult crime, they do the adult time.

Nonsense. A 17 year old is a child in the eyes of the law, and should be treated as such.
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tz757300
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 7:13 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 5):
A 17 year old is a child in the eyes of the law, and should be treated as such.

I believe the real eyes of the law see them as Adults, not children.

So...nonsense
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Yellowstone
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 7:20 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 5):
Nonsense. A 17 year old is a child in the eyes of the law, and should be treated as such.

I'm guessing the 17 year olds had just as much cognizance of what they were doing as the legally adult 18 year olds. Charge them as adults, I say.
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777236ER
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 7:29 am

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 6):
I believe the real eyes of the law see them as Adults, not children.



Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 7):
I'm guessing the 17 year olds had just as much cognizance of what they were doing as the legally adult 18 year olds. Charge them as adults, I say.

The law doesn't see them old enough to vote, hence they are children.
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searpqx
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 8):
The law doesn't see them old enough to vote, hence they are children.

The law has specific criteria for treating them as adults, they've met those criteria, hence they are adults.
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777236ER
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 8:04 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 9):

The law has specific criteria for treating them as adults, they've met those criteria, hence they are adults.

But they, as children, have no say in the law. If you want to try 17 year olds as adults, give them the vote.
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tz757300
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 8:10 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 10):
But they, as children, have no say in the law.

Does anyone really have any say in any laws?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 10):
If you want to try 17 year olds as adults, give them the vote.

Why? I'm 17 and think this is done the way it should. Most kids who are 17 and do things against the law almost always get treated at kids. These kids did something so wrong that they deserved to be tried as an adult and reap the rewards.
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AirCop
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 8:14 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 3):
What's more...The 17 and 18 year olds are charged as adults...They're gonna be put in the state pen in Salem

The 17yr old won't be going to Salem until he's 18, which by the time all the legal proceedings occur he will be. By the time all the plea bargaining who knows what the final charge will be.
 
MDorBust
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 8:18 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 5):
Nonsense. A 17 year old is a child in the eyes of the law, and should be treated as such.

Not so much there buddy.

I believe that fifteen is the age for criminal prosecution as an adult in Oregon.

Could be wrong by a year.

Anyone from Oregon?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 8):
The law doesn't see them old enough to vote, hence they are children.

Legal scholar you are not.
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EWRCabincrew
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 8:23 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 10):
If you want to try 17 year olds as adults, give them the vote.

If you are 17 and you rape someone, then you should be charged as an adult. Voting and raping are two different things. Rape is an adult crime. Subject to adult rules.
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AeroWesty
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 8:28 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 13):
I believe that fifteen is the age for criminal prosecution as an adult in Oregon.

Could be wrong by a year.

Anyone from Oregon?

It's 14 in Oregon. Kip Kinkel was 15 when he did the school shootings in Springfield in 1998 and he was tried as adult. The only thing that being under 18 but charged as an adult spares you from is the death penalty.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9805/21/school.shooting.oregon.law/index.html
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777236ER
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 8:28 am

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 11):
Why? I'm 17 and think this is done the way it should. Most kids who are 17 and do things against the law almost always get treated at kids. These kids did something so wrong that they deserved to be tried as an adult and reap the rewards.

So then why aren't 17 year olds treated as adults by the state when they're doing things right?

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 11):
Does anyone really have any say in any laws?

Yes.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 12):
The 17yr old won't be going to Salem until he's 18, which by the time all the legal proceedings occur he will be.

Ridiculous argument. If a five year old 'commits murder' should the state wait 13 years before prosecuting him?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 13):
Legal scholar you are not.

Good at grammar you are not.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 13):
Not so much there buddy.

I believe that fifteen is the age for criminal prosecution as an adult in Oregon.

Are 15 year olds allowed the vote? Are they allowed to drink? Are they allowed to fight for the country? No.

The state believes people under 18 aren't mature enough to deal with the burdens of being an adult - so then why are children expected to be tried as adults?

Then again, the US (along with the bastion of human rights Somalia) hasn't ratified the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. Next I think someone should make a compelling argument as to why children should be sent to fight in Iraq.
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AirCop
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 8:32 am

Check my notes, had something similar happen here in Arizona, but instead of basketball players, it was summer camp counselors and the suspect just happen to be the son of the State Senate Majority Leader..The charges were reduced because the County Attorney felt it was just a prank. 12 kids under 11 were the victims. The Majority Leader actually asked the court to reduced the charge to a misdemeanors so that his son could go on a Mormon mission. End result was one month in county jail and the lowest felony along with not having to register as a sex offender.
 
tz757300
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 8:47 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):

Ridiculous argument. If a five year old 'commits murder' should the state wait 13 years before prosecuting him?

Not ridiculous at all. If you know the court system over here, he'll be 18 before any hearings and such start. It's just slow over here, really slow.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):

Yes.

Heh, show me when laws are being written up, when anyone has any say in it. Laws are made by politicians and the such only, unless its something local where the public can go to town hall.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):

So then why aren't 17 year olds treated as adults by the state when they're doing things right?

Because there is different ages are different things. Thats the way it works over here.
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777236ER
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 9:36 am

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 18):

Because there is different ages are different things. Thats the way it works over here.

So a child is a child when they're voting, trying to buy alcohol, going to war and buying a house, but an adult if they commit a crime? Nonsense. The rights and definition of a child are absolute.

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 18):
Heh, show me when laws are being written up, when anyone has any say in it. Laws are made by politicians and the such only, unless its something local where the public can go to town hall.

The people have a direct say in who makes the laws. Hence voting people make the laws. Are you now trying to suggest the US isn't essentially a democracy?
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TedTAce
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 9:43 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 5):
Nonsense. A 17 year old is a child in the eyes of the law, and should be treated as such.



Quoting 777236ER (Reply 19):
The rights and definition of a child are absolute.

I love it when you spew this  redflag . Haven't you been pwned 7 ways to Sunday when it come to the law on this and other forums? Were you not supposed to have self deleted? You obviously have little concept of how British law works, much less a CLUE about American law so why in the hell do you insist on making yourself look foolish again and again and again?
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777236ER
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 9:45 am

And just in case anyone was wondering, the age of majority in Oregon is 18.
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MDorBust
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 9:52 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):
Good at grammar you are not.



Quoting 777236ER (Reply 16):

Are 15 year olds allowed the vote? Are they allowed to drink? Are they allowed to fight for the country? No

SFW?

And I don't mean Safe For Work.

Irrelevant tangent.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 21):
And just in case anyone was wondering, the age of majority in Oregon is 18.

Which has nothing to do with the age of criminal prosecution as an adult.
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tz757300
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 9:56 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 19):
So a child is a child when they're voting, trying to buy alcohol, going to war and buying a house,

Umm, you have to be an adult to do all of those things. You don't see 12 year olds going into liquor stores to buy alcohol and cigarettes now do you.

And before you start yelling some more of your  redflag  bullshit, yes, you can join the military at 17, but there is no way you'll able to go to war at 17. It takes at least a year in most cases to receive proper training to be in the military and do the job you're assigned.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 19):
Are you now trying to suggest the US isn't essentially a democracy?

It sure is. Democracy is as apparent as the monarchy in the UK
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aa757first
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:04 am

What happened to innocent before proven guilty?
 
777236ER
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 22):
Irrelevant tangent.

No, not at all. If a 17 isn't considered mature enough to vote, drink alcohol, buy a house and exist without a legal guardian, why should they be prosecuted as an adult?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 22):

Which has nothing to do with the age of criminal prosecution as an adult.

Whilst I agree it's got nothing to do with the age of criminal responsibility, considering in Oregon law a 17 year old is a child I can hardly see how they can be charged as an adult.

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 23):
Umm, you have to be an adult to do all of those things. You don't see 12 year olds going into liquor stores to buy alcohol and cigarettes now do you.

But you would try a 12 year old as an adult, apparently.

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 23):
It sure is. Democracy is as apparent as the monarchy in the UK

Actually the US is a Constitutional Republic. But you ignored my point.
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MDorBust
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 25):
No, not at all.

Yes really.

All those age requirements are generated by different rules and regulations. Suggesting that all of these separate rules and regulations are dependent upon each other is asinine.

Voting
Military service
Liquor sales
Age of consent
Legal Guardianship
Drivers License
Criminal prosecution
Marriage Age
Smoking

All different laws
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TedTAce
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:16 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 25):
Whilst I agree it's got nothing to do with the age of criminal responsibility, considering in Oregon law a 17 year old is a child I can hardly see how they can be charged as an adult.

Try 15:
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LASoctoberB6
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:17 am

i get back to this post in a little, i cant think of what to say...
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Dougloid
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:17 am

I don't know why people are saying "Oh these kids today..." I remember a boy who was in the same school year as I was back in Jersey in the middle sixties. He was really effeminate and un coordinated to boot and he always was picked on in PT. In the locker room one day two guys held him down while a third wrapped a dirty jock around the kid's head, then another time one of them had the kid in a corner of the lockers and tried to jam his dick in the guy's mouth.....nobody said a thing, myself included.

People suck. They always have.
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777236ER
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:21 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 27):
Voting
Military service
Liquor sales
Age of consent
Legal Guardianship
Drivers License
Criminal prosecution
Marriage Age
Smoking

All different laws

But the crucial one here is the age at which a person can vote.

If the law decides a person cannot determine who represents them in power then the state should have no right to try that person as if they are an adult. I don't know if you support the death penalty or not, but if Oregon had it would you allow the state to execute a 15 year old? They have no problem trying a 15 year old as an adult.
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TedTAce
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:27 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 31):
But the crucial one here is the age at which a person can vote.

 no 

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 31):
They have no problem trying a 15 year old as an adult.

No, it's YOUR problem. Apparently among others.
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MDorBust
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 31):
But the crucial one here is the age at which a person can vote.

Why?

Because you say so?

Sorry, no.

There is no magic "adult moment" in the United States. You are considered an adult for different issues at different times.

If we were to follow your "no vote, no conviction" line of reasoning, we wouldn't be able to enfore the law against repeated felons, non voter registered citizens and any aliens in the nation. They all can't vote either.

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 31):
I don't know if you support the death penalty or not, but if Oregon had it would you allow the state to execute a 15 year old? They have no problem trying a 15 year old as an adult.

Another irrelevent tangent.

Perhaps if you did some research into how the legal system in the US works you would know the answer to how a fifteen year old is handled in regards to a death penalty case.
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AeroWesty
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:32 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 31):
I don't know if you support the death penalty or not, but if Oregon had it would you allow the state to execute a 15 year old? They have no problem trying a 15 year old as an adult.

Already covered in Reply #15. Just read the thread.
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ltbewr
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:38 am

Rape is one of worst acts one can do or be the victim of, no matter the gender affected. It is an act of violence. It is one of the most feared acts of violence a man could ever have to endure due to our deep social horror of it. One has to wonder how much trauma and lifelong emotional damage has occurred to that guy that was attacked. That this rape occurred on a road game trip means the school system didn't do it's job to properly supervise their students and should face huge civil liability. The accused did an adult act, they were 16/17 years old and did such a obscene act they should face adult trial and adult penalties if convicted.
 
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LTU932
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:42 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 5):
A 17 year old is a child in the eyes of the law, and should be treated as such.

Do you even know Oregon or US federal law? I don't, so I don't do comments like yours. The thing is that, as stated in reply 15, a juvenile can be tried in Oregon as an adult starting from the age of 14. Under which circumstances this applies, that I don't know, but given that rape is a very serious and heinous crime, I guess rape and murder are one of those circumstances in which a juvenile can be tried as an adult, and I personally fully agree with that.
 
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LTU932
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:48 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 34):
Rape is one of worst acts one can do or be the victim of, no matter the gender affected. It is an act of violence. It is one of the most feared acts of violence a man could ever have to endure due to our deep social horror of it. One has to wonder how much trauma and lifelong emotional damage has occurred to that guy that was attacked. That this rape occurred on a road game trip means the school system didn't do it's job to properly supervise their students and should face huge civil liability. The accused did an adult act, they were 16/17 years old and did such a obscene act they should face adult trial and adult penalties if convicted.

 checkmark 

I fully agree. Nobody should ever EVER experience rape. Rape is rape, regardless of whether it's a man or a woman who commits it or becomes a victim of it. I hope the players responsible get life without parole or 25 years in a high security prison for it.
 
walter747
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 10:54 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 30):
Oregon had it would you allow the state to execute a 15 year old? They have no problem trying a 15 year old as an adult.

Wow, did you just say that!?!?!?! You have to be joking me! Execute a 15 year old, what are you smoking?!?!
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searpqx
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 11:17 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 10):
But they, as children, have no say in the law. If you want to try 17 year olds as adults, give them the vote.

As has already been pointed out, that falls down on a number of points, not the least of which is that any number of adults in this country don't have the right to vote, and yet are fully subject to our laws. Bottom line, these men can and will be tried as adults in Oregon, legally and completely in accordance with the laws of the State of Oregon and the United States of America.
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JAGflyer
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 12:18 pm

How do these things happen? Just thinking about it. Why would an entire team of BOYS rape another boy? I mean, in HS we use the word "fag" "gay" "homo" to describe people who these things. I don't see how these boys concieved the idea of raping another boy. Especially a whole team! The image these students have now is totally ruined. I still don't understand how they did it. Firstly the idea of doing that to a person (rape) and the image you give yourself in a very judgemental place like a high school!
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Newark777
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sat May 05, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting class=quote target=_blank>Searpqx (Reply
39
):
As has already been pointed out, that falls down on a number of
points, not the least of which is that any number of adults in this country
don't have the right to vote, and yet are fully subject to our
laws.

That's the thing, the laws apply to you no matter what your status is. Just
look at the little phrase on the DC license plates:

height="218" border=0>

Harry
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S12PPL
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sun May 06, 2007 12:57 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 5):

Listen...You have taken this thread off on a tangent that it may never come back from. You havn't got a friggen clue what the hell you are talking about. You are spouting off about "He isn't old enough to vote!! You can't charge him as an adult!!" and other crap, and it has NO CONNECTION TO THE CRIME COMMITTED!!!! PERIOD.

Allowing a person to buy booze, join the military, or vote, is all a PRIVILAGE. It's something you earn with age. You don't earn the right to have your buddy hold down some poor 14 or 15 year old, while you rape him against his will. Period. WHen you do that, you go to jail. That is all. You GO TO JAIL. And Oregon isn't the only state in this country that allows minors to be prosecuted as adults if they commit certain crimes. If these 17 year olds had gone and lifted a candy bar from a 7-11, they would not be facing charges as adults. Why? Because that isn't the same as murdering someone, or raping someone. The two crimes are different. They are crimes, yes...But different kinds. You don't sentence someone to death for stealing a candy bar. You sentence someone to death for murdering another person in cold blood. You don't send someone to a state prison for stealing a candy bar. You send someone to state prison for raping a 14 or 15 year old. Certain states in the US have made it very clear, that if you do certain things at the age of 15, 16, or 17...You will be charged as an adult, and prosecuted as such. And guess what?? These laws were passed with almost every single person screaming "YES!!!!" Guess what happens now? These 17 year olds will either be convicted by a jury...Plea out...But either way, if they plea or get convicted, they will have to register as sex offenders the rest of they lives. Do you know what happens if these 17 year olds were not charged as adults? If they plea out, or get convicted as minors, then when they turn 18, it's all off their record.

Will you get on the same page finally? Please?
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TedTAce
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sun May 06, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 41):
Will you get on the same page finally? Please?

You expect this from the weasel who has YET to SD?
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md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sun May 06, 2007 1:20 am

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 19):
Are you now trying to suggest the US isn't essentially a democracy?

You are right....it is not.

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Believe it or not.....its the kids who are more aware of when they become official adults than anyone on this thread has attempted to mention. If they have violent criminal intentions....they make certain to act on them before they become an adult. That is why today's severly misguided youth are so scary. Their parents cannot properly discipline them for fear of being incarcerated, so the kids actually run the show. They know that very well.....and that is why these boys should have the heaviest book thrown at them.....NOW.

As a tangent to the other thread......do you think this is a hate crime?
 
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scbriml
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sun May 06, 2007 1:32 am

So was this a slam-dunk, or did they go in off the rim?
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tz757300
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sun May 06, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 43):
do you think this is a hate crime?

I'm not sure how this would be a hate crime. Who exactly are they hating against?

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 44):
So was this a slam-dunk, or did they go in off the rim?

 faint 
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waterpolodan
Posts: 1605
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sun May 06, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 44):
So was this a slam-dunk, or did they go in off the rim?

 no  Not exactly appropriate...
 
stlgph
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sun May 06, 2007 2:19 am

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 44):
So was this a slam-dunk, or did they go in off the rim?

hahahahaha! you just put the whole office in giggles.
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N1120A
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Teammate

Sun May 06, 2007 2:59 am

I am reserving comment on the idea of charging people as an adult, but I do have a comment on this one.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 4):
Boo friggin' hoo. Don't want to feel that type of pain, humiliation and punishment? Don't do the crime. It really is that simple.

If rape is a crime on the outside, it is a crime in prison and saying anything else is not only promoting non-compliance with the law it is also imposing a punishment that does not comport with what the law actually says. It is just as wrong for a rapist to be raped in prison as it is for them to commit the rape in the first place.
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MD-90
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RE: HS Basketball Players Arrested For Raping Team

Sun May 06, 2007 3:04 am

I think it is barbaric and disgusting to see how some people hope for convicted criminals to get raped and abused in prison.

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