TedTAce
Topic Author
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More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 5:27 am

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18574603/

Quote:

ATLANTA - A vegan couple were sentenced Wednesday to life in prison for the death of their malnourished 6-week-old baby boy, who was fed a diet largely consisting of soy milk and apple juice.

The punnishment fits like a glove as far as I am concerned.
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Boeing7E7
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 5:29 am

Nice....

I wonder if they'll start eating meat.
 
TedTAce
Topic Author
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 1):
I wonder if they'll start eating meat.

 rotfl  Depends on the cellmates I guess  Wink
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carmenlu15
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 5:34 am

Quote:
Their son, Crown Shakur, weighed just 3 1/2 pounds when he died of starvation on April 25, 2004.

Wow... My baby cousin was born a month before he was due, and I'm pretty sure he weighed more than that...
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
Marquis
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):

The punnishment fits like a glove as far as I am concerned.

I second that statement. Gosh, the common sense of these windfall eater really upsets me...
Riding the radials...
 
mdsh00
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 5:52 am

6 weeks old? The baby could still be breast fed. Or does that violate some kind of vegan rule?

Retards, not even strict vegetarians would do that (and they still drink milk).
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
Superfly
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:01 am

Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):
The punnishment fits like a glove as far as I am concerned.

 checkmark 


From the article;
Defense lawyers said the first-time parents did the best they could while adhering to the lifestyle of vegans, who typically use no animal products.

HELLO, veganism is RETARDED in the first place. I have yet to meet a vegan that doesn't have a few scews loose!
I hope every vegan pays close attention to this story and perhaps rethink the whole vegan thing.
I can't stand these people and yet they always like to preach to everyone they encounter about how veganism is the only way.

Also from the article;
6-week-old baby boy, who was fed a diet largely consisting of soy milk and apple juice.

Apple juice is full of sugar!
That can't be too healthy for a newborn.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Go3Team
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 3):
Wow... My baby cousin was born a month before he was due, and I'm pretty sure he weighed more than that...

As was my sister - she was just under 6lbs.

One was quoted as not starving the kid. What the hell else would it be. I imagine that at 6 weeks, the baby would still be on the milk, I guess someone with kids could correct me. Also, is baby formula a dairy product?
Yay Pudding!
 
fumanchewd
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:16 am

Well I think that they should go to prison, I don't think that a life sentence is fitting. If it works out that they get 10 years or so with probation I think that that would be fair. They didn't intentionally seek to kill the baby. They were idiotic, negligent, and at fault but there is no evidence that it was premeditated.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
mbmbos
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
I have yet to meet a vegan that doesn't have a few scews loose!

I've known many quite vegetarians.

I have a couple of college friends who are vegan and they are well balanced and successful people. They are not at all preachy; in fact you wouldn't know they were vegan unless you specifically asked. They have two children who have been raised as vegans from the get-go (they were breast fed). The kids excel in school and in athletics and have no health issues.

I wonder if this might be a situation where the only vegans you identify as being such are the ones who are preachy and sanctimonious?
 
aloges
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Lif

Thu May 10, 2007 6:21 am

Quoting TedTAce (Thread starter):
The punnishment fits like a glove as far as I am concerned.

On second thought (hence the edit), doesn't this go more along the lines of manslaughter than murder?

Quoting Marquis (Reply 4):
windfall eater

Those are frutarians, even worse than Vegans.

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 5):
6 weeks old? The baby could still be breast fed. Or does that violate some kind of vegan rule?

I don't know, but maybe the mother wasn't even able to produce (enough) milk for her baby due to herself being malnourished.

[Edited 2007-05-09 23:23:19]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
carmenlu15
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:27 am

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 7):
I imagine that at 6 weeks, the baby would still be on the milk, I guess someone with kids could correct me.

 checkmark  AFAIK, kids should feed exclusively on milk for the first 6 months, then you start introducing other foods.
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
HELLO, veganism is RETARDED in the first place.

Absolutely not. Vegeanism makes perfect sense for cows, dear and other plant eating animals. As for humans, it is just plane stupid. Your body was designed to function in a certain way with certain dietary requirements. To just up and decide that you are going to make up your own rules and eat only vegetation is pure idiocy. If you one day decide that you hate all the oil companies and are going to only put vegetable oil in your car and not gas, your car will not run. The same goes with Vegans. Have you ever seen a vegan that looked healthy? no, there is a reason they are skinny and pale.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
searpqx
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:29 am

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 9):
I've known many quite vegetarians.

There is a huge difference between most vegetarians and true vegans. While neither lifestyle is biologically natural to a human, most vegetarians understand that some animal protein is necessary.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 9):
I wonder if this might be a situation where the only vegans you identify as being such are the ones who are preachy and sanctimonious?

Totally anecdotal, but the hard core vegans I've met are all of the preachy/sanctimonious persuasion. I'm curious about your friends - are you aware if they take supplements? I have yet to meet a truly healthy vegan that doesn't admit to needing to supplement their diet to make up for the proteins and other nutrients they can't get by avoiding animal products.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
767Lover
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Lif

Thu May 10, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 13):
Totally anecdotal, but the hard core vegans I've met are all of the preachy/sanctimonious persuasion.

 yes  me too

One I know is also a chain smoker. Last I checked a piece of lean red meat or chicken has more nutritional value than a cigarette.
 
Mir
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:36 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 8):
Well I think that they should go to prison, I don't think that a life sentence is fitting. If it works out that they get 10 years or so with probation I think that that would be fair. They didn't intentionally seek to kill the baby. They were idiotic, negligent, and at fault but there is no evidence that it was premeditated.

 checkmark  They're idiots, no doubt about it, but life is excessive.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
MaverickM11
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:36 am

Quoting Carmenlu15 (Reply 3):
Crown Shakur

With a name like that you can pretty much guess what trajectory his life will take Sad

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
veganism is RETARDED in the first place

Word. You end up looking like this  Silly

E pur si muove -Galileo
 
767Lover
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Lif

Thu May 10, 2007 6:41 am

I've been following this story locally.

I agree that they acted irresponsibly and are basically dumb@$$es for not learning how to properly care for an infant. They deserve some prison time, but I agree with those who said a life sentence is excessive. I think maybe 10-15 years would be a fair sentence, and perhaps sterilization.

Edit:

One thing I am confused about it why they were convicted on all of these: malice murder, felony murder, involuntary manslaughter. Perhaps someone here can explain.

[Edited 2007-05-09 23:45:18]

[Edited 2007-05-09 23:46:32]
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:42 am

Jesus  Sad

Child cruelty most definately.....



Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
mbmbos
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 14):
There is a huge difference between most vegetarians and true vegans.

I know a handful of true vegans. None of them flaunt their belief system.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 14):
Totally anecdotal, but the hard core vegans I've met...

But I'm sure you can see that there are inherent problems with generalizing from anecdotal situations. Some people think that all gay people are effeminate flamers because they generalize from the few they recognize (or think) are gay.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 14):
I have yet to meet a truly healthy vegan that doesn't admit to needing to supplement their diet to make up for the proteins...

The vegans I know challenge the notion that you cannot get enough/the right proteins on a strictly vegetarian diet. They do not take protein supplements. One of them takes a mineral supplement, but so do I. I will reiterate that my vegan friends are healthy, rational people.
 
767Lover
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 19):
I know a handful of true vegans. None of them flaunt their belief system.



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 19):
The vegans I know challenge the notion that you cannot get enough/the right proteins on a strictly vegetarian diet. They do not take protein supplements. One of them takes a mineral supplement, but so do I. I will reiterate that my vegan friends are healthy, rational people.

These are not my quotes.
 
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LTU932
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:47 am

At 6 weeks old, the baby should have either been breast fed, or be fed with the proper baby formula. In any case, imposing a misguided believe in vegeterianism on a kid that still heavily depends on dairy products for nourishment, is for me almost the same as child abuse, and given the tragic death that this caused, I agree that their lack of responsibility was punished properly. May those people never get out of prison and never have any children, if they impose their misguided believes on them again.

That being said, I don't have anything against vegetarians. I know some of them and they seem to be pretty cool with us eating meat et al. They just don't eat meat themselves, nor do they impose their believes on not eating meat on us. Nevertheless, IMO any kind of lack of responsibility by a partent that can end up seriously harming, or even killing the child, MUST be punished harshly.
 
767Lover
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:48 am

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 19):
Quoting 767Lover (Reply 14):
Totally anecdotal, but the hard core vegans I've met...

But I'm sure you can see that there are inherent problems with generalizing from anecdotal situations. Some people think that all gay people are effeminate flamers because they generalize from the few they recognize (or think) are gay.

Key words: "I've met"
 
Superfly
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 13):
Totally anecdotal, but the hard core vegans I've met are all of the preachy/sanctimonious persuasion.

I'd like to meet one too. Perhaps it may change my narrow-minded attitude about vegans.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 14):
One I know is also a chain smoker. Last I checked a piece of lean red meat or chicken has more nutritional value than a cigarette.

 checkmark 

That's for damn sure!
The first time I met a vegan, she was a also a smoker. She was also approx. 315 pounds and about 5', 4".
She always had a cookie, bagel or some kind of food in her hand. She was very very preachy! It was very difficult to work with her also.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16):
Word. You end up looking like this

Funny! Big grin
Bring back the Concorde
 
767Lover
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:51 am

This might be for another thread, but what is the liability on parents who raise their children as Christian Scientists or other religions that don't believe in the practice of medicine?
 
mbmbos
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 6:53 am

Sorry about that 767Lover. I intended to quote Searpqx.
 
searpqx
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
They're idiots, no doubt about it, but life is excessive.

Is it? I'm know they weren't specifically trying to kill their child, which is probably why they didn't get muder one. But they did take premeditated action which resulted in the death of their child, and as the child grew sicker and they didn't seek help they opened themselves up to the malice charge. The signs of starvation are very clear and to claim that they didn't know something was wrong until the last minutes is far beyond what's believable.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 19):
But I'm sure you can see that there are inherent problems with generalizing from anecdotal situations. Some people think that all gay people are effeminate flamers because they generalize from the few they recognize (or think) are gay.

Which is why I put the 'anecdotal' in my statement. I try and avoid generalizations, but I will say that vegans seem to be the exception to the rule.
BTW - all the quotes attributed to 767Lover are from me.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 19):
I will reiterate that my vegan friends are healthy, rational people.

And I'm happy for them, I'm really not trying to imply your friends are in any way bad.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
Go3Team
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 24):
This might be for another thread, but what is the liability on parents who raise their children as Christian Scientists or other religions that don't believe in the practice of medicine?

I seem to remember a few news stories related to that, a google search may provide some answers.
Yay Pudding!
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 8:13 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 8):
They didn't intentionally seek to kill the baby. They were idiotic, negligent, and at fault

All the more reason to have a license to have children.
You can't cure stupid
 
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casinterest
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 8:23 am

well here is the problem I have with Vegans.

They don't drink Animal dairy products.


Woman's breasts don't produce Mlk just for the sole purpose of pleasing some sex fetish.
They do it to feed young.

The avoidance of Dairy, makes them absoultely against the whole fricken purpose of Nature.

Children require Milk with all the protiens. Not fricken SOY.

These parents were
1. Stupid
2. Ignorant
3. Ambivolent for Six weeks that their newborn was loosing weight.

They deserve life
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
mdsh00
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 29):
Woman's breasts don't produce Mlk just for the sole purpose of pleasing some sex fetish.They do it to feed young.

Not only that but give vital antibodies to keep the baby's immune system running until it is old enough to handle itself.

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 29):
3. Ambivolent for Six weeks that their newborn was loosing weight.

That too, I think it would take an idiot not to wonder why their baby isn't round and plump like most babies should be. It also sounds like they really didn't make doctors visits or else the doctor would have noticed it. I wouldn't be surprised if these "parents" didn't believe in immunization either.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
Mir
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 9:44 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 26):
But they did take premeditated action which resulted in the death of their child

Intent matters. The goal of the premeditated action was not to kill their kid through malnourishment. If I'm driving down the street and someone suddenly runs out into the road without looking and I hit and killed them, you would say that I deserve life in prison because I took a premediated action (driving) which resulted in their death?

This death was accidental. It was also easily preventable, which is where the negligence and cruelty comes in (and there's a lot of both). I don't think these people should be allowed to have a child again. I do believe that they should serve jail time. But I don't believe they should be locked up for life for a mistake, even a stupid one - there is no law against stupidity.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
mbmbos
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 9:50 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 26):
I try and avoid generalizations, but ...

...you'll generalize anyway?

 Smile

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 27):
I'm really not trying to imply your friends are in any way bad.

And I'm not trying to defend my friends. I'm defending vegans against some pretty strident stereotyping and some mischaracterizations about the healthiness of their diet.

Look, I'm not a vegetarian and I'm probably not as well informed as I should be to defend it. But there's some pretty spurious and unsupported assumptions flying around this thread. Prejudice by any other name is still, well, prejudice.
 
mdsh00
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 9:58 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 31):
This death was accidental. It was also easily preventable, which is where the negligence and cruelty comes in (and there's a lot of both). I don't think these people should be allowed to have a child again. I do believe that they should serve jail time. But I don't believe they should be locked up for life for a mistake, even a stupid one - there is no law against stupidity.

I don't see how it is considered accidental and a mistake. New mothers are educated about child nutrition, and it is common knowledge that 6 weeks old babies have different nutritional requirements than adults, and can't live on apple juice and soy milk. Not only that but as they saw their baby wasting away, they didn't have the intuition to go see the doctor? More negligent than anything else IMO.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
ORFflyer
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
I have yet to meet a vegan that doesn't have a few scews loose!

I agree, except for one. I've met several, and most seem to be a couple of french-fries short of a Happy Meal, except for this guy in our office; straight up good dude, and if it weren't for his personalized license plates, you would have no idea he and his family are vegans.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 13):
I have yet to meet a truly healthy vegan that doesn't admit to needing to supplement their diet to make up for the proteins and other nutrients they can't get by avoiding animal products.

Some additional nutrients are essential from what I hear, directly from the guy I mention above.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 32):
But there's some pretty spurious and unsupported assumptions flying around this thread.

Maybe - I'm not informed enough to say. But I do know that this thread has been as civil as any thread I've seen with such differing opinions.
 
767Lover
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 10:48 am

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 32):
I'm defending vegans against some pretty strident stereotyping and some mischaracterizations about the healthiness of their diet.



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 32):
Prejudice by any other name is still, well, prejudice.

Can we count on you to stand up against the hundreds of other stereotyping and mischaracterizations on Anet?
 
mbmbos
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 11:02 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 35):
Can we count on you to stand up against the hundreds of other stereotyping and mischaracterizations on Anet?

I always do.
 
767Lover
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 11:03 am

Excellent. I could have used you several times around here!
 
JAGflyer
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 11:30 am

They're in for a big surprise when they find out the prison system doesn't serve wheatgrass, tofu or soymilk.
Support the beer and soda can industry, your recycle old airplanes!
 
767Lover
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 11:35 am

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 38):
They're in for a big surprise when they find out the prison system doesn't serve wheatgrass, tofu or soymilk.

It was reported that the guy has already lost 10 pounds due to not eating in prison.
 
Mir
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 11:49 am

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 33):
More negligent than anything else IMO.

I agree. But I don't think negligence should carry a life sentence.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
saxdiva
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Lif

Thu May 10, 2007 12:22 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 12):
If you one day decide that you hate all the oil companies and are going to only put vegetable oil in your car and not gas, your car will not run.

Bad analogy, especially since it's wrong. A do-it-yourself kit with turn that smoky ol' diesel into a ultra-low-emission frybrid in less than a weekend.

Sorry for the hijack... the parents who did this to their kid are still criminally stupid. But let's keep our facts straight.
 
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LTU932
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 12:33 pm

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 33):
I don't see how it is considered accidental and a mistake. New mothers are educated about child nutrition, and it is common knowledge that 6 weeks old babies have different nutritional requirements than adults, and can't live on apple juice and soy milk. Not only that but as they saw their baby wasting away, they didn't have the intuition to go see the doctor? More negligent than anything else IMO.

And even if they still refused to breastfeed that baby, they should have at least bought proper baby formula, which is at least a much more adecuate substitute for maternal milk than soy milk and apple juice.
 
LH423
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 29):
Woman's breasts don't produce Mlk just for the sole purpose of pleasing some sex fetish.
They do it to feed young.

Ok, a little research found that no vegan society advocates that babies not be breastfed. In fact, some of these say that breastfeeding should be the ONLY method or nourishment.

http://www.vegfamily.com/babies-and-...dlers/breastfeeding-vegan-baby.htm
http://www.vegsource.com/nutrition/kids.htm
http://www.vegansociety.com/html/peo...families/parenting/vegan_children/

(DISCLAIMER: I am a proud consumer of meat and dairy products)

But some salient points where I can see where vegans come from on the dairy issue.


  • Humans are the only species to drink the milk of ANOTHER species.
  • Humans are the only species to drink milk beyond infancy.


My opinion is that these two were the vegans with a few screws loose that people have alluded to. I think they take the ideas of veganism to an extreme. I think they were wrong and I think they are guilty of criminal negligence and manslaughter. I think, however, that the sentence is a bit too harsh. Idiots, yes. I don't think they didn't love their baby.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
rwsea
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RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 1:38 pm

I'm sorry, but life in prison is excessive in this case. I can see 10-15 years for something like this, but life seems to be an extreme. I have a feeling that the judge might even agree, expect for the fact that the sentences were mandatory.

This case is yet another example of our flawed justice system. Mandatory minimum sentencing does not prevent crime, and is too harsh in its nature. Yet, the judge's hands were tied and it was the only sentence he cou

These two people may have done a very bad thing, but they certainly don't deserve to be locked up for life for what they've done. When you look at others who got life in prison (such as the notorious Green River killer here in Seattle - who killed dozens of people), it kind of puts this case in perspective.
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 1:49 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 31):
If I'm driving down the street and someone suddenly runs out into the road without looking and I hit and killed them, you would say that I deserve life in prison because I took a premediated action (driving) which resulted in their death?

Bad analogy. Driving safely with a properly equipped car, can not reasonably be expected to result in the death of someone, plus your victim took action which caused their own death. If you want to use the car analogy, drive it at night, with no lights and the engine muffled and don't stop at intersections. No, you don't set out to kill anyone, but you've taken actions which by themselves increase the likelihood of an accident. And then, when you do hit someone that doesn't see or hear you coming, instead of stopping and helping you drive off, in the same manner and hit someone else. That's basically what occurred with these people.

Now to be honest, if they were truly going to serve the remainder of their natural lives in prison, I'd probably agree with you. But since its likely they will be out on parole in a shorter time, I really don't have a problem with this sentence.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 32):
...you'll generalize anyway?

Nope, I'm sticking to 'all the one's I've met'. I'm open to being proven wrong, I just haven't seen any evidence to the contrary.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
gunsontheroof
Posts: 3226
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:30 am

RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Lif

Thu May 10, 2007 4:21 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 12):
As for humans, it is just plane stupid. Your body was designed to function in a certain way with certain dietary requirements. To just up and decide that you are going to make up your own rules and eat only vegetation is pure idiocy. If you one day decide that you hate all the oil companies and are going to only put vegetable oil in your car and not gas, your car will not run. The same goes with Vegans. Have you ever seen a vegan that looked healthy? no, there is a reason they are skinny and pale.

I'm vegetarian who eats vegan quite often and I'm as healthy as I could want to be. There isn't much in meat/dairy products that you can't get from other sources, but your eloquent critique of these dietary choices is nonetheless appreciated.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 13):
most vegetarians understand that some animal protein is necessary.

For what? Cancer? Heart disease?

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 19):



Quoting CasInterest (Reply 29):
well here is the problem I have with Vegans.

They don't drink Animal dairy products.


Woman's breasts don't produce Mlk just for the sole purpose of pleasing some sex fetish.
They do it to feed young.

The avoidance of Dairy, makes them absoultely against the whole fricken purpose of Nature.

Children require Milk with all the protiens. Not fricken SOY.

These folks don't seem to be typical vegans. Many, if not most, vegans don't consume dairy products because they believe in exactly the fact you're referring to: humans should drink the milk of HUMANS, not cows. Once developed, the nutritional values in milk can be attained elsewhere.

Quoting LH423 (Reply 43):

Ok, a little research found that no vegan society advocates that babies not be breastfed. In fact, some of these say that breastfeeding should be the ONLY method or nourishment.

Kudos to you for bothering to learn something about veganism before launching into a tirade of generalizations and assumptions.

Look, these folks clearly don't have any understanding of how to raise a child. This kid needed breast milk, and its parents failure to realize that resulted in tragedy. Breastfeeding a child in no way goes against the guidelines of a vegan diet, and frankly, I'm rather baffled that these folks didn't know that. There are plenty of vegetarians/vegans in this country who are perfectly "normal" by the standards of those of you who are using the news of this child's death to bash a dietary choice that I'm willing to bet you know precisely nothing about, and many of them are raising equally "normal" children responsibly on vegetarian/vegan diets.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 44):
I'm sorry, but life in prison is excessive in this case. I can see 10-15 years for something like this, but life seems to be an extreme. I have a feeling that the judge might even agree, expect for the fact that the sentences were mandatory.

Agreed. These people clearly didn't have any idea how to raise a child, vegan or not. Some punishment is deserved for their negligence, but they're far from murderers.

*Edit to include response to RwSEA, and this link for anyone interested in a fairly balanced assessment of vegan health: http://www.veganhealth.org/

[Edited 2007-05-10 09:27:22]

[Edited 2007-05-10 09:40:09]
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 9:06 pm

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 8):
Well I think that they should go to prison, I don't think that a life sentence is fitting. If it works out that they get 10 years or so with probation I think that that would be fair. They didn't intentionally seek to kill the baby. They were idiotic, negligent, and at fault but there is no evidence that it was premeditated.

They shouldn't be let out of prison until they agree to undergo voluntary sterilization.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 28):
Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 8):
They didn't intentionally seek to kill the baby. They were idiotic, negligent, and at fault

All the more reason to have a license to have children.

Reminds me of the scene from the Steve Martin movie "Parenthood," were Keanu Reeves describes his abusive father, and concludes with the following -
"You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming as**ole be a father."

[Edited 2007-05-10 14:07:39]
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
carmenlu15
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:24 am

RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 11:40 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 42):
And even if they still refused to breastfeed that baby, they should have at least bought proper baby formula, which is at least a much more adecuate substitute for maternal milk than soy milk and apple juice.

Not to mention the fact that there are baby formulas available that have soy protein rather than dairy products (for lactose-intolerant babies).

BTW, before anyone asks... I don't have children of my own, but was already a teenager when my sisters were born.  Silly
Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: More Parental Irresponsibility (Vegans Get Life)

Thu May 10, 2007 11:53 pm

Quoting Saxdiva (Reply 41):
A do-it-yourself kit with turn that smoky ol' diesel into a ultra-low-emission frybrid in less than a weekend.

And how would you modify a human body to run on only vegetation?
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!

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