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RobK
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Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 4:32 am

 hissyfit 

What is it with these places in England that won't accept Scottish bank notes??? I just don't get it!? I worked in a cash centre for Midland bank for years and am fully aware that that Scottish notes are just as "sterling" as English ones so what's the deal?

I spend a lot of time in Scotland through work and very often have a pocketful of English and Scottish notes but when I don't have any Scottish ones to pay with in Scotland, I'm never faced with any "we don't accept English notes" signs or grumbling up there, but come back down to England and there are signs galore in just about every type of establishment you can think of that accepts cash saying "we don't accept Scottish notes" but when you ask why you just get "company policy"  sarcastic 

It's really annoying. Isn't there some law that dictates they must accept them if they're sterling and obviously not counterfeit?

I wouldn't like to even try it with NI notes - it would take the grumbling to a whole new level!  Wow!

R
 
Klaus
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 4:35 am

Now I can see why many britons are so vehemently opposed to the Euro - it would do away with the beloved chaos they're so fond of at home...  mischievous   innocent 
 
legoguy
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting RobK (Thread starter):
I wouldn't like to even try it with NI notes - it would take the grumbling to a whole new level!

Good chocie as they won't accept NI notes. I believe everywhere in England only excepts English notes. Where as everywhere else in the UK accept all notes including NI and Scottish notes. (Do Wales ahve their own notes?)

What are the rules in Scotland? Will they accept NI notes?
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moo
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting RobK (Thread starter):
What is it with these places in England that won't accept Scottish bank notes??? I just don't get it!? I worked in a cash centre for Midland bank for years and am fully aware that that Scottish notes are just as "sterling" as English ones so what's the deal?



Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
Now I can see why many britons are so vehemently opposed to the Euro - it would do away with the beloved chaos they're so fond of at home...

It gets better....

Scottish bank notes are technically not legal tender, because while they are issued by a bank with authority to do so, only coins are classed as legal tender in Scottish law- the same goes for Northern Irish bank notes.

Scottish notes were legal tender for a short period during world war 2, but it was withdrawn shortly after the end.

Quote:

All Scottish banks have the right to print their own notes. Three choose to do so: The Bank of Scotland (founded 1695), The Royal Bank of Scotland (founded 1727) and the Clydesdale Bank (owned by National Australia Bank). Only the Royal Bank prints pound notes. All the banks print 5,10,20 and 100 notes. Only the Bank of Scotland and Clydesdale Bank print 50 pound notes.

Scottish bank notes are not legal tender in Scotland.

http://www.siliconglen.com/Scotland/1_7.html

Quote:

Are Scottish & Northern Irish notes legal tender?
In short ‘No’ these notes are not legal tender; only Bank of England notes are legal tender but only in England and Wales.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/about/faqs.htm

[Edited 2007-05-13 21:46:09]
 
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RobK
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 4:49 am

Interesting. But do they have to accept them if they've got sterling written on them (jock notes in England/Wales)?

 confused 

R
 
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moo
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting RobK (Reply 4):
Interesting. But do they have to accept them if they've got sterling written on them (jock notes in England/Wales)?

Nope, they arent legal tender

It can however be argued that they are legal currency for payment of a debt. This does not mean that a shop has to accept it at the till because at that particular point, no debt exists between the shop and the customer - this actually applies to all currency and tender.

Just because you have money, it doesn't mean I have to accept it.

[Edited 2007-05-13 22:01:44]
 
BCNGRO
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 5:30 am

When I was studying in Durham I remember travelling to Edimburgh and bringing back Scottish notes and then using them in Durham or Newcastle. I never had a problem using them, some people just said "oh, scottish notes" but accepted them. Maybe I was just lucky using them in establishments where Scottish notes were accepted.  Confused

[Edited 2007-05-13 22:32:02]
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steve7e7
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting Moo (Reply 5):
Just because you have money, it doesn't mean I have to accept it.

I have ALWAYS accepted Scottish notes at work and will continue to do so.

The bank accepts them without question when I pay them in so why should I refuse them?
 
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moo
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 6:08 am

Quoting Steve7E7 (Reply 7):

I have ALWAYS accepted Scottish notes at work and will continue to do so.

The bank accepts them without question when I pay them in so why should I refuse them?

That comment was more about any money, not just Scottish notes - unless a debt already exists, there is no legal reason why I need accept any money you present as payment for something, whether it be Scottish notes, English notes or coins.

Besides, there is a good reason why places do not accept Scottish notes in England - because there are so few in circulation in England, and so few shop workers actually know what they look like (unlike ordinary English bank notes, which they handle each and every day) its actually easier for small time forgers to pass notes successfully. This gets more of a problem the further south you go.

Any good shop worker should know the anti forging devices built into English bank notes (raised text, ink that rubs off if you rub the note against a bit of paper, water mark, intricacies in the printing, metallic threads etc), but how many of them know which of these, if any, are built into Scottish notes?
 
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RobK
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 6:48 am

So if I order a pizza and have it delivered to my house then therefore a debt exists and it can be paid for with a Scottish bank note because it is legal tender and the same currency as my own country, regardless of the fact that they have notices all over their shop stating that they do not accept Scottish notes, right?

 confused 

R
 
gkirk
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 7:08 am

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 2):
What are the rules in Scotland? Will they accept NI notes?

If they are Sterling then it's legal.

Quoting Moo (Reply 3):
Scottish bank notes are technically not legal tender

False.

Quoting RobK (Reply 9):

If they don't accept Scottish bank notes then I would accuse them of being racist.
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Daleaholic
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 7:13 am

Why do you even have a scottish note in the first place? If you're that bothered about it being refused as legal tender, tell the shop that gives it to you as change that you want an english note instead. grumpy  The shop I work in does not accept scottish notes, I for one do not know the particular reason but I've been told not to accept them. We even have a sign by the till saying that we don't, yet time and time again people come in and kick up a fuss... That's the policy... Deal with it!  mad 

Quoting Moo (Reply 8):
how many of them know which of these, if any, are built into Scottish notes?

 Smile  yes  I wouldn't know what a scottish note looks like let alone know whether it is real or not!  Silly
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RobK
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 11):
Why do you even have a scottish note in the first place? If you're that bothered about it being refused as legal tender, tell the shop that gives it to you as change that you want an english note instead.

Which part of "I spend a lot of time in Scotland through work" are you unable to grasp?  sarcastic  Show me a cash machine in Glasgow or Edinburgh that spits out English notes and I'll happily use it.  sarcastic 

Furthermore, what exactly is the shop meant to do if they don't have an English ten or five pound note to give me as change? Piss me off totally by giving me a handful of coins instead?  sarcastic 

 sarcastic 

R
 
British767
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 7:52 am

I work in a cash office at a supermarket, dealing with some £30,000 every Sunday (today the note counter broke and I had to count it all by hand   ). We'd get on average around £60 worth of Scottish notes out of the whole lot. We have to turn away Scottish £1 notes though, as we can't bank them, and people won't take them back as change.

We also get the odd Bank of Ireland note (from N. Ireland). I remember once we got a £5 note from N. Ireland that didn't even look like money, as it was very waxy, was portrait, and had a clear panel, and had a picture of a spacecraft on it...weird. Apparently it was OK though, as the bank have not sent it back to us!

[Edited 2007-05-14 01:11:29]
 
legoguy
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 7:56 am

Quoting British767 (Reply 13):
I remembr once we got a £5 note from N. Ireland that didn't even look like money, as it was very waxy, was portrait, and had a clear panel, and had a picture of a spacecraft on it...weird.

Ahh that was a new £5 introduced a while ago. It's supposed to be unripable so it's hard to damage. That's the only NI note like that.
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RobK
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 8:11 am

Quoting British767 (Reply 13):
We have to turn away Scottish £1 notes though, as we can't bank them

That's actually complete bollox and a long standing urban myth. I can assure you that you can bank them just like any other sterling note and I used to handle thousands of them per day when I worked for Midland Bank (now HSBC). In fact, if you work for Morrisons or Somerfield then the money that you bank in your cash office used to come to me and my colleagues for confirming the contents of the deposit bags before being credited to your supermarket's account!

Quoting British767 (Reply 13):
We also get the odd Bank of Ireland note (from N. Ireland). I remembr once we got a £5 note from N. Ireland that didn't even look like money, as it was very waxy, was portrait, and had a clear panel, and had a picture of a spacecraft on it...weird. Apparently it was OK though, as the bank have not sent it back to us!

Yep, they're issued by the Northern Bank and are made of plastic, but are still legal tender/sterling so no reason not to accept it. They're very rare and in all the time I worked in the cash centre I only ever saw 2 ! I exchanged one of them myself and have it here at home, hoping that one day it will be very collectable and worth a lot of money. Here's one I found on Ebay.

  

R

[Edited 2007-05-14 01:14:49]
 
legoguy
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting RobK (Reply 15):
I exchanged one of them myself and have it here at home, hoping that one day it will be very collectable and worth a lot of money. Here's one I found on Ebay.

 Wow! If you can sell them each on ebay for £9.99... I have like 6 of them at the moment!

EDIT... It's the George Best Bank note that sells for double money on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RARE-GEORGE-BE...sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Edited 2007-05-14 01:35:24]
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moo
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 8:57 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 10):
Quoting Legoguy (Reply 2):
What are the rules in Scotland? Will they accept NI notes?

If they are Sterling then it's legal.

Its not as clear cut as that, no one has to accept anything - Sterling or not. And Sterling issuances may not be legal tender or currency (think old banknotes, which are most definitely Sterling, but cannot be accepted by shops after they have been withdrawn from circulation).

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 10):
Quoting Moo (Reply 3):
Scottish bank notes are technically not legal tender

False.

I posted two links to back up my comment and I have a whole raft of others - its as plain as day, Scottish notes are not legal tender as considered under Scottish or English law. They may be in every day use, and the argument has been made that they are legal currency in some situations but the two terms are totally different.

Quite how you can simply say 'false' when it has already been demonstrated that the Bank of England and Scotland themselves don't consider Scottish notes legal tender is quite beyond me.

If you require more convincing, lets have a quote from the Royal Bank of Scotland on the subject:

Quote:

Legal tender

There are more Royal Bank banknotes circulating in Scotland than those of any other bank but, with the exception of temporary provisions during both World Wars, Scottish banknotes have never been 'legal tender' even in Scotland. Today, no banknote qualifies as 'legal tender' north of the Border, although they remain legal currency. The notes may also circulate freely in England and Wales, although branches of the Royal Bank there may not issue them.

http://www.rbs.com/about03.asp?id=AB...BANKNOTES/HISTORY_OF_OUR_BANKNOTES

How about representatives for the four big Scottish banks?

Quote:

Scottish Banknotes are legal currency – i.e. they are approved by the UK Parliament. However, Scottish Bank notes are not Legal Tender, not even in Scotland.

http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/legal_tender.php

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 10):

If they don't accept Scottish bank notes then I would accuse them of being racist.

And yay for another dilution of a terminology - refusal to accept a bank note from a certain country is nowhere near racism, if you can actually call 'scottish' a race at all!
 
ltbewr
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 9:57 am

In my experiences in the UK and Scotland, Scotland banknotes were accepted in "England" in those areas near the border, less accepted as one got further from Scotland. Yet, one could use "England" notes in Scotland without any problem. It is a bit confusing and one has to wonder why this system exists for what is the same country.
 
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 12:49 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 18):
In my experiences in the UK and Scotland, Scotland banknotes were accepted in "England" in those areas near the border, less accepted as one got further from Scotland.

In the past I've used Scottish notes, including the one pound notes, all the way down in London multiple times after trips north of the border. Sometimes I got comments, and once a young saleswoman didn't want to believe it was real (I guess she'd never seen one before?!) But she asked her boss, who assured her it was, and they took it.

Seems to be really hit and miss...
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gkirk
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 4:18 pm

Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 11):
The shop I work in does not accept scottish notes, I for one do not know the particular reason but I've been told not to accept them.

If it's got Sterling on, then it's legal.
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ohthedrama747
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 5:51 pm

We got our Scottish money refused in quite a few places in London. But then some other places were more than happy to take them.

Was down for a trip to Alton Towers one year and had to go to the petrol station. Gave her the money and she was holding it up to the light thinking it was fake etc.

Like N229NW says, it's really hit or miss.

Christ, I'm just going to use my VISA Debit from now on. Save the bloody hassle.

G
 
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moo
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 6:14 pm

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 20):

If it's got Sterling on, then it's legal.

Again, wrong. Stop repeating this old school falacy, especially as I have produced enough links to prove otherwise.

And to further elaborate against this falacy, the Coinage Act of 1971 laid down a set of upper limits for legal tender of coinage, above which noone is required to accept as payment for anything -

50p up to £10.
20p up to £10.

10p up to £5.
5p up to £5.
bronze coins up to 20p.

So no, being marked as or issued under 'Sterling' is not automatically legal.

[Edited 2007-05-14 11:21:58]
 
Banco
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 6:52 pm

Quoting Moo (Reply 22):
And to further elaborate against this falacy, the Coinage Act of 1971 laid down a set of upper limits for legal tender of coinage, above which noone is required to accept as payment for anything -

It's all true, but you really shouldn't get caught up in the legal tender argument, because the meaning of it is so narrow as to be not worth bothering with. People are often under the impression that legal tender means that is is compulsory to accept payment, and that's not true, because it's never compulsory to accept any form of payment at any kind of shop or institution, it is a matter for the two parties. When you take an item to the counter, you are offering to make a payment of a certain amount, and the shop then decides whether it wants to accept your payment. That's why it's also nonsense for people to suggest that a mis-priced item must be sold at the price it has been given.

The real reason why shops in England tend to be reluctant to accept Scottish or Northern Irish notes the further south you go is much more simple: The staff see them only very rarely and lack the experience to determine whether or not the notes are genuine. It's a long-established scam to try to pay with fake Scottish notes and one that people would often get away with. Easier to refuse to accept them altogether, then there's no prospect of being diddled.

To all intents and purposes, in the real world there's no reason whatsover legally to refuse to accept Scottish notes, but it's a question of practicality, and that's simply down to the shop owner, nothing more or less. A shop in Benebecula seeing few Bank of England notes could perfectly well decline one for the same reason.
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RobK
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 7:00 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 23):
It's all true, but you really shouldn't get caught up in the legal tender argument, because the meaning of it is so narrow as to be not worth bothering with. People are often under the impression that legal tender means that is is compulsory to accept payment, and that's not true, because it's never compulsory to accept any form of payment at any kind of shop or institution, it is a matter for the two parties. When you take an item to the counter, you are offering to make a payment of a certain amount, and the shop then decides whether it wants to accept your payment. That's why it's also nonsense for people to suggest that a mis-priced item must be sold at the price it has been given.

The real reason why shops in England tend to be reluctant to accept Scottish or Northern Irish notes the further south you go is much more simple: The staff see them only very rarely and lack the experience to determine whether or not the notes are genuine. It's a long-established scam to try to pay with fake Scottish notes and one that people would often get away with. Easier to refuse to accept them altogether, then there's no prospect of being diddled.

To all intents and purposes, in the real world there's no reason whatsover legally to refuse to accept Scottish notes, but it's a question of practicality, and that's simply down to the shop owner, nothing more or less. A shop in Benebecula seeing few Bank of England notes could perfectly well decline one for the same reason.

So

Quoting RobK (Reply 9):
...if I order a pizza and have it delivered to my house then therefore a debt exists and it can be paid for with a Scottish bank note because it is legal tender and the same currency as my own country, regardless of the fact that they have notices all over their shop stating that they do not accept Scottish notes, right?

 confused 

R
 
Banco
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 7:07 pm

Quoting RobK (Reply 24):
So

Quoting RobK (Reply 9):
...if I order a pizza and have it delivered to my house then therefore a debt exists and it can be paid for with a Scottish bank note because it is legal tender and the same currency as my own country, regardless of the fact that they have notices all over their shop stating that they do not accept Scottish notes, right?

No, because they can accept sea shells as payment if they want to. Notes of any description, English or Scottish, are merely a commonly agreed method of exchange which they can either decide they want to accept or not. Same as many shops now won't accept cheques as payment. The question of legal tender is in reality neither here nor there in terms of the everyday practicability of it. You have to take the transaction back to a more basic level to understand what is going on: They are providing you with goods, and in return you are offering to give them a little bit of paper. They then decide whether they want to accept that bit of paper, and they almost always do because of the commonly understood meaning of what that piece of paper stands for. But legal tender is irrelevant in this, they can refuse to accept a nice crisp English £20 note just as much as a Scottish one - just as many shops refuse to accept £50 notes, and for exactly the same reason.
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moo
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 7:32 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 23):
It's all true, but you really shouldn't get caught up in the legal tender argument, because the meaning of it is so narrow as to be not worth bothering with.

I agree, but by the letter of the law....  Smile

Quoting Banco (Reply 23):
People are often under the impression that legal tender means that is is compulsory to accept payment, and that's not true, because it's never compulsory to accept any form of payment at any kind of shop or institution, it is a matter for the two parties.

Yes, legal tender and legal currency are two entirely different things, and the differences lie in what a cashier can refuse to take without outright refusing a transaction. While its immensly unlikely you would be prosecuted at all for refusing any sort of payment, there is still a legal standing where a business or person can refuse to accept any non legal tender and be protected under word of law. But as we both agree, the likelyhood of that ever coming to court is minute.

Legal currency is a matter wholely between two people, unless overruled by law (eg the outright banning of a certain currency), so you can accept English notes, Scottish notes, Euros, Dollars or even pebbles if you so wish.

As I said earlier in the thread, while not being legal tender, legal currency must still be accepted in payment of a preexisting debt if offered, and refusal to accept legal tender can result in the debt being considered 'repaid through refusal' by a court, so RobKs question:

Quoting RobK (Reply 24):
...if I order a pizza and have it delivered to my house then therefore a debt exists and it can be paid for with a Scottish bank note because it is legal tender and the same currency as my own country, regardless of the fact that they have notices all over their shop stating that they do not accept Scottish notes, right?

depends entirely on whether you were informed prior to ordering about them refusing Scottish notes. If not, and they turn up at your door with the Pizza expecting payment, then a prior debt exists and an offer of a Scottish note is legally acceptable so you can consider the debt repaid if they refuse the note. But in reality, just pay the guy with something else otherwise you will probably have to spend some time explaining the situation to some coppers and/or a court.

If you purchase the pizza in the store, typically they will tender payment prior to completing the transaction (issuing a pizza to you) and in this case no prior debt exists and they can refuse the note.
 
HT
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 7:34 pm

Quoting RobK (Reply 9):
So if I order a pizza and have it delivered to my house then therefore a debt exists and it can be paid for with a Scottish bank note because it is legal tender and the same currency as my own country, regardless of the fact that they have notices all over their shop stating that they do not accept Scottish notes, right?

The delivery man must accept Scottish bank notes unless he wears a hat indicating "No Scottish bank notes accepted" Big grin

A while ago, I received Gibraltar-1-pound coins as change (in Gib' ) and when I tried to pay with one of them in London it was refused. They ended up in a machine ...
-HT

P.S. Switch to the Euro and there will be one problem less in the U.K. Big grin
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Banco
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 7:42 pm

Quoting Moo (Reply 26):
depends entirely on whether you were informed prior to ordering about them refusing Scottish notes. If not, and they turn up at your door with the Pizza expecting payment, then a prior debt exists and an offer of a Scottish note is legally acceptable so you can consider the debt repaid if they refuse the note. But in reality, just pay the guy with something else otherwise you will probably have to spend some time explaining the situation to some coppers and/or a court.

More to the point, they just won't hand over the pizza and are fully within their rights not to because the transaction hasn't been completed. If they've still got hold of it, and you proffer a Scottish £20 note and they say they aren't accepting it, that's their call. That's the point about a pre-existing debt, when you are conducting a transaction like that, there isn't one; you are in the same position as if you were to offer sea shells as payment, they can accept it, or they can tell you to get stuffed. It's up to them.
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moo
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 7:48 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 28):

More to the point, they just won't hand over the pizza and are fully within their rights not to because the transaction hasn't been completed. If they've still got hold of it, and you proffer a Scottish £20 note and they say they aren't accepting it, that's their call. That's the point about a pre-existing debt, when you are conducting a transaction like that, there isn't one; you are in the same position as if you were to offer sea shells as payment, they can accept it, or they can tell you to get stuffed. It's up to them.

Now thats a bit iffy - the pizza was ordered by yourself, cooked by the pizza store for you and delivered to your house in the agreement that a payment be made at the end, so technically a preexisting debt can be claimed to exist because none of those steps would have happened if you hadnt made the order.

But in all honesty, they will probably just turn around, go away and never accept any orders from you again.
 
Banco
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 7:53 pm

Quoting Moo (Reply 29):
Now thats a bit iffy - the pizza was ordered by yourself, cooked by the pizza store for you and delivered to your house in the agreement that a payment be made at the end, so technically a preexisting debt can be claimed to exist because none of those steps would have happened if you hadnt made the order.

Not really. It's no different to you picking up an item from the shelves of the supermarket and walking with it to the checkout. At that point no transaction has been made, it's only when money changes hands that it is. If they shove the pizza in your hand first, then refuse to accept payment, it's a different matter. But prior to handing it over, it's still down to the pizzeria to decide whether they want to accept your payment or not. You have no rights in the matter until you have the goods and you've offered a perfectly acceptable means of payment.
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moo
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 7:58 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 30):
Not really. It's no different to you picking up an item from the shelves of the supermarket and walking with it to the checkout.

Legally, its actually very different to you picking up an item on a supermarket shelf and walking to the checkout, since the pizza place are not only providing a general service, but they are also providing a custom goods to your specification on your request.
 
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moo
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 8:01 pm

In summary to this thread, I think its safe to say that the legalities of anything are quite complex, especially within countries like the UK where law is laid on top of law and most of the time people fall back on convention as simplicity.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 8:03 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
do away with the beloved chaos they're so fond of at home... mischievous innocent

I still remember that I after 4 days in Scotland (Edinburgh+Glasgow) had banknotes of the Royal Bank of Scotland, the Bank of Scotland and the Clydesdale Bank, and upon return to England (Newcastle) had to go to a bank to get "English" notes.






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Quoting Moo (Reply 3):
Scottish bank notes are technically not legal tender

whether "legal tender" or not, English banks and currency-exchange-shops changed them into English banknotes without any problem
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Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 11):
tell the shop that gives it to you as change that you want an english note instead.

as I could see on a short visit to Scotland some years ago, shops and restaurants do NOT have English banknotes normally
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Quoting Moo (Reply 17):
don't consider Scottish notes legal tender

well, there also is "the right of usage and customs", which means that the Scots themselves plus uncountable tourists use those Scottish banknotes daily which are accepted throughout Scotland, and that means that whomever has such banknotes has the right of usage and customs to get them accepted. Those banknotes not ony are accepted by banks in England but also by banks on the Continent. It apparently is the famous difference between de-jure and de-facto .
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Quoting British767 (Reply 13):
We have to turn away Scottish £1 notes though, as we can't bank them

your company should change its bank. I as a simple tourist could change Scottish $1 notes in Newcastle, in London and in Zurich.
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Banco
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 8:04 pm

Quoting Moo (Reply 31):
Legally, its actually very different to you picking up an item on a supermarket shelf and walking to the checkout, since the pizza place are not only providing a general service, but they are also providing a custom goods to your specification on your request.

But the transaction is all bound up in trust that you will pay, nothing more. There's no invoice sent to you and there is no contract, which is why you have no recourse if they fail to turn up, because you haven't coughed up a penny. The delivery is simply another manner of performing the identical service that you receive when you go into the shop, order the pizza and stand there with your cash. If they take your credit card in advance, that's entirely different.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Klaus
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 8:26 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 33):
I still remember that I after 4 days in Scotland (Edinburgh+Glasgow) had banknotes of the Royal Bank of Scotland, the Bank of Scotland and the Clydesdale Bank, and upon return to England (Newcastle) had to go to a bank to get "English" notes.

Hilarious! It's like a Monty Python episode! Big grin

I for my part, however, prefer to leave humour and a sense for the bizarre and other eccentricities out of my monetary transactions as far as possible. But then I'm a humourless german who just wants his money to function properly.

Entertainment "value" is not freely convertible on the currency market, I'm afraid...!  mischievous 
 
WSOY
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 8:55 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
Now I can see why many britons are so vehemently opposed to the Euro - it would do away with the beloved chaos they're so fond of at home...

Wow yes let's talk about the Euro -- the Euro greatly simplified my personal wallet management. I've been paying almost everything in plastics since 1995. The realm of the symbol of our greater unity made of fibers and metal now only covers the occasional (yearly) school buffet with me.

I'm hoping that the future of virtual payments will bring back the old national currencies and create a new web of local currencies as well. As you enter the establishment you'd be informed right away of the currencies accepted and the current rates.

[Edited 2007-05-14 14:02:38]
"Nukkuessa tulee nälkä" (Nipsu)
 
Klaus
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 9:03 pm

Quoting WSOY (Reply 36):
I'm hoping that the future of virtual payments will bring back the old national currencies and create a new web of local currencies as well. As you enter the establishment you'd be informed right away of the currencies accepted and the current rates.

Masochism so far has been and hopefully will remain a niche preference.
 
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 9:21 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 37):
Masochism so far has been and hopefully will remain a niche preference.

What do you mean? What do you have against the local community currencies, for instance? They can't have any real effect on you beloved ECB, for instance? Or?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency
"Nukkuessa tulee nälkä" (Nipsu)
 
British767
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 9:53 pm

Quoting RobK (Reply 15):
That's actually complete bollox and a long standing urban myth.

Maybe in terms of taking it down to the bank and paying it in, in person. But when considering the fact that when Securicor come to collect money, they collect it in batches of £500 or £1000, and even though we are dealing with tens of thousands of pounds, we simply don't get enough to create a large batch (we get one every month or so, meaning we'd have to wait 8 years or so before we can get a batch). On our system (a flaw in my opinion) it is difficult to bank the £1 notes, as there is no actual way of the system allowing us to bank single notes.
 
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 10:33 pm

Quoting WSOY (Reply 36):
will bring back the old national currencies

so that everybody loses time and energy in order to calculate -- and you in business never really know whether you are winning or losing on currency fluctuations. And you whenever changing borders have to chase for a currency exchange again. --- brrrrrrr !
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Quoting WSOY (Reply 38):
They can't have any real effect on you beloved ECB, for instance? Or?

Now, whenever driving across the border from Switzerland, it always is the same currency and the same exchange rate. You can use the same coins and notes, regardless of whether you go into Germany, France, Italy or Austria. No need any longer for upto 3 currencies for a single weekend.
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 10:41 pm

Quoting British767 (Reply 39):
Maybe in terms of taking it down to the bank and paying it in, in person. But when considering the fact that when Securicor come to collect money, they collect it in batches of £500 or £1000, and even though we are dealing with tens of thousands of pounds, we simply don't get enough to create a large batch (we get one every month or so, meaning we'd have to wait 8 years or so before we can get a batch). On our system (a flaw in my opinion) it is difficult to bank the £1 notes, as there is no actual way of the system allowing us to bank single notes.

Yes you're actually right there. I now remember processing the supermarket deposits and it was all bulk cash and no "bits". Whatever you do, don't mix Scottish and English notes in the same £1000 or £5000 bags though because we don't count it, we just weigh it and Scottish notes are slightly heavier than English ones which means that the bag weighs above tolerance thus meaning we have to open them and run it through the note counter.  Sad Keep all your Scottish 10s and 20s to one side until you've got enough to make up a grand and then stick them in the appropriately coloured £1000 bag and clearly mark "SCOTTISH" across the white label on the front.

I shouldn't be telling you this really, but if you get any fake 10s or 20s, just shove them in the bag with the rest and you'll still get the full £1000 or £5000 credited to your account as (like I say above) we don't even open the bags if it weighs within tolerance.  biggrin 

R
 
Klaus
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 10:57 pm

Quoting WSOY (Reply 38):
What do you mean? What do you have against the local community currencies, for instance?

Nothing. If they make you happy, more power to you!
I just don't see any benefits that could compensate the significant hassle they create.

Quoting WSOY (Reply 38):
They can't have any real effect on you beloved ECB, for instance? Or?

I don't see any that could, hence it's not really my problem.

Watching the various british pounds and the confusion around them explained above is entertaining, but it doesn't impact me much either, apart from visits to the isles or doing business with Britain, which I simply don't do.

[Edited 2007-05-14 16:03:18]
 
Banco
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 11:04 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 42):
Watching the various british pounds and the confusion around them explained above is entertaining,

There isn't any confusion. The debate was on highly arcane legal definitions, not the day to day reality. I know you'd love it to be all chaos so that the utter glory of the Euro can be celebrated in song across the world, but we do perfectly nicely thank you very much..
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Daleaholic
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 11:06 pm

Look, In the time you've spent bitching about places not accepting the notes in this thread... you could have gone to the bank and got them fooking changed!

Quoting RobK (Reply 12):

 Yeah sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure  Yeah sure I added another one for you...
Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 42):
local community currencies

while I assume that by "local community currencies" he means the old national currencies, the term to me sounds like "local" things like the Zürich-Taler, or local currencies for spots like Heidelberg, Lindau, Schloss Neuschwanstein or Swiss places like St. Moritz, Davos, Zermatt etc !
 
Klaus
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 43):
There isn't any confusion. The debate was on highly arcane legal definitions, not the day to day reality.

Really? From the thread starter:

Quoting RobK (Thread starter):
What is it with these places in England that won't accept Scottish bank notes??? I just don't get it!?



Quoting Banco (Reply 43):
I know you'd love it to be all chaos so that the utter glory of the Euro can be celebrated in song across the world, but we do perfectly nicely thank you very much..

You're obviously having fun with the current currency confusion, but simply paying with my normal money (almost) anywhere on the continent certainly beats fuming at cashiers a few miles away not accepting it... But I guess that's just me.  mischievous 
 
Banco
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 46):
Really? From the thread starter:

Quoting RobK (Thread starter):
What is it with these places in England that won't accept Scottish bank notes??? I just don't get it!?

 Yeah sure

And the confusion? Some accept them, some don't. It's all to do with having a consistent, unbroken line of democracy which actually allows for anomalies rather than trying to stamp them out as is your regular illiberal wont. I know you'd love your ordered, regimented world where everything was ruled according to the word of Klaus, but that's not the way we work. So you can keep your ordered world where you try to force everything to be the same, and I'll enjoy living in a nation where the attitude is if it doesn't do any harm then we'll leave it alone.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Klaus
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 47):
And the confusion? Some accept them, some don't. It's all to do with having a consistent, unbroken line of democracy which actually allows for anomalies rather than trying to stamp them out as is your regular illiberal wont. I know you'd love your ordered, regimented world where everything was ruled according to the word of Klaus, but that's not the way we work. So you can keep your ordered world where you try to force everything to be the same, and I'll enjoy living in a nation where the attitude is if it doesn't do any harm then we'll leave it alone.

The concept which you seem to have such difficulty understanding is consistency.

Trying to explain away artificial inconsistencies which make transactions more difficult without any benefit whatsoever is a nice try, but unfortunately not convincing...! Big grin
 
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RE: Accepting Scottish Bank Notes In England

Mon May 14, 2007 11:43 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 43):
The debate was on highly arcane legal definitions, not the day to day reality.

I just now re-read the opening post, and that post was clearly on day to day realities and practical aspects, and NOT on some legal definitions, some 5 mio. Scots apparently do NOT much care about !  Big grin
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Whenever I did NOT see it as "chaos".
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Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 44):
places not accepting the notes in this thread... you could have gone to the bank and got them fooking changed!

this is what I did when realising the point. It hardly can be described as a REAL problem, even if amusing in a way, and maybe strange as well, when meeting it first time.
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Quoting Banco (Reply 47):
Some accept them, some don't.

The Scots themselves all DO, for instance the Glasgow-folks take the Edinburgh money from the Royal Bank of Scotland and the Bank of Scotland in full, while you outside of Scotland are to go to the bank. I remember to have retained one RBS £1 note as souvenir !
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