Superfly
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How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:43 am


3.7L V6 300HP 17/22 mpg



4.2L V8 350HP 14/19 mpg



5.5L V8 382HP 15/22 mpg




15/19 mpg



5.0L V8 302HP 14/19 mpg



4.8L V8 350HP 15/21 mpg


Cost and reliability aside.

I’ve tried many times to get answers from the experts here in related threads so I’ve decided to start my own thread. Why is that imports to the USA get a free pass from criticism for poor gas mileage? These vehicles listed get worse mileage than Chrysler’s HEMI powered vehicles, less than the current Lincoln Town Car, Cadillac DTS and yet American cars are often disregarded as all having poor fuel economy.
Keep in mind, the Europeans and Japanese don’t import many of there heavy-duty commercial grade trucks. Therefore, they are automatically going to have a higher fuel economy average of the vehicles they import. If they did import them here, there numbers would fall also.
What I find ironic is that some Europeans criticize the US for driving gas-guzzlers yet don’t have a problem importing and selling us there gas-guzzlers.
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzl

Tue May 22, 2007 5:52 am

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):

Car builders build what the Market wants , if Americans want big cars , big cars will be built .
The customers have to change the builders and not the builders the customers .


konstantin
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RichPhitzwell
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:53 am

 checkeredflag 

In my mind we are including these vehicles, but its easier just to say "Hemi" or "SUV" and imply everything else.

My 2 cents
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Superfly
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:58 am

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 2):
its easier just to say "Hemi" or "SUV" and imply everything else.

Ah-ha, so it's about what is "easier" to say?  Wow!
If there is any true stupid useless vehicle on the road, it's the car-based crossover SUV luxury models such as the Mercedes M-class, RX-series, X5 and such. They sit up high, get poor milage, handling is not up to par with sedans/coupes and can't go off road even though they are equiped with 4X4 drive.
Bring back the Concorde
 
aloges
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzl

Tue May 22, 2007 5:59 am

There you go:

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):



3.7L V6 300HP 17/22 mpg



4.2L V8 350HP 14/19 mpg



5.5L V8 382HP 15/22 mpg



15/19 mpg



5.0L V8 302HP 14/19 mpg



4.8L V8 350HP 15/21 mpg


Cost and reliability aside.

I’ve tried many times to get answers from the experts here in related threads so I’ve decided to start my own thread. Why is that imports to the USA get a free pass from criticism for poor gas mileage? These vehicles listed get worse mileage than Chrysler’s HEMI powered vehicles, less than the current Lincoln Town Car, Cadillac DTS and yet American cars are often disregarded as all having poor fuel economy.
Keep in mind, the Europeans and Japanese don’t import many of there heavy-duty commercial grade trucks. Therefore, they are automatically going to have a higher fuel economy average of the vehicles they import. If they did import them here, there numbers would fall also.
What I find ironic is that some Europeans criticize the US for driving gas-guzzlers yet don’t have a problem importing and selling us there gas-guzzlers.

I shake my head at them no less than I shake it at (sub)urban F-150s and GMC trucks. But then again, you can count the average of days per month that I partly spend in a car on the fingers of one hand.

Edit: I just realised that it's Ad-Block that blocks the Yahoo! images, so my post is a service to Ad-Block users. Big grin

[Edited 2007-05-21 23:01:55]
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RichPhitzwell
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:03 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
4X4 drive.

4x4 isn't just for off road in some places, but I see what you are saying. Being i dont have any emotions on this topic per say, I'm backing out. Said my piece and I have to agree with:

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 1):
Car builders build what the Market wants

but add one thing, this is what has gotten American manufacturers in alot of trouble. They do not build what the vast market needs, just what some guys want and apply it across the board.
Nonav.com kinda like Whiners except the lights are on and the pimps been paid
 
DL787932ER
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:03 am

With the possible exception of the Mitsubishi (not sure what those are going for these days), someone who can afford any of the other cars on your list isn't concerned with gas mileage. More "average" cars like a Ford Explorer or a Crown Vic are bought by people for whom an extra $100/month in gas can make a real difference. But someone who bought an $80k X5 or S-Class would look pretty silly complaining about mileage.

Also, how do the vehicles you listed compare to somewhat equivalent U.S. models, like an Escalade, Navigator, Grand Cherokee SRT-8, or big Cadillac sedan? Are the comparable U.S. models better or worse than the Euro models?
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galapagapop
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:06 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 3):
If there is any true stupid useless vehicle on the road, it's the car-based crossover SUV luxury models such as the Mercedes M-class, RX-series, X5 and such. They sit up high, get poor milage, handling is not up to par with sedans/coupes and can't go off road even though they are equiped with 4X4 drive.

Amen, those things are destroying the car market with what is probably the mutant spawn of a bad idea. Either get a nice sedan or get an SUV, crossovers are turning into poorer mileage minvans. YUCK!
 
jamesbuk
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:07 am

Just out of interest, you all rip 4X4's but are they any safer in like icing conditions and stuff? is the average amount of people who die/killed in icing conditions higher or lower in SUV's/4X4's and are 4X4's beneficial in anyway in a normal everyday life?

Just a query  Smile

Rgds --James--
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PPVRA
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzl

Tue May 22, 2007 6:08 am

I don't think Superfly intended this thread to have anything to do with the economic side of these vehicles, but with the emissions/environmental side. After all, you bought a fuel-guzzler, you should expect higher fuel bills.

[Edited 2007-05-21 23:10:48]
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Sabena332
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:10 am

SUVs become more and more popular here in Germany. I see Porsche Cayennes, VW Touaregs, Audi Q7s, Merc M-Classes, and BMW X5s countless times every day. I have no problems with these cars, in fact, I really like to drive the VW Touareg of my father's company. My parents thought about buying a VW Touareg to replace the Audi A6 which is our 2nd car, meanwhile they decided to keep the A6 so that we have at least one Diesel in our "family car fleet".

The only thing that I don't get is that everyone is complaining about the high gas prices here, but SUVs are as popular as never before.

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
4.2L V8 350HP 14/19 mpg

Interesting, the Q7 has the same 4.2L V8 engine like the A8 but the A8's engine has 30HP more. I didn't know that before.

Patrick
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Emirates773ER
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:14 am

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 6):
With the possible exception of the Mitsubishi (not sure what those are going for these days), someone who can afford any of the other cars on your list isn't concerned with gas mileage. More "average" cars like a Ford Explorer or a Crown Vic are bought by people for whom an extra $100/month in gas can make a real difference. But someone who bought an $80k X5 or S-Class would look pretty silly complaining about mileage.

 checkmark 
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
cfalk
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:15 am

Good question.

The Europeans now make the most powerful cars in the world. Several mass-produced cars make more than 500 or even 600 horsepower. Specialty cars like Bugatti can go over 1000hp. In an environment where gas costs double what it costs in the US, AND where the concentration of population makes polution a much greater problem than in the US.

Also, even European manufacturers and even the Japanese are making monsterously heavy cars and SUVs.

Americans have always liked their big cars, and I agree, it's a problem and Americans really need to get their size complex under control.

But Europe has always been the land of the small car. 30 years ago, at least 90% of all cars in Europe had 4-bangers or smaller, with engine sizes usually in low-to-mid 1 liter range. 6-cylinders were rare and V8s and V-12s were in the stratosphere. Now, average engine size has at least doubled. You can get a VW Golf with a supercharged V-6! You can buy a new Mini (at over twice the weight of the old one) with 250 hp, straight out of the factory!

For all the faults of the american driver, Europeans have gone nuts with their cars, and mainly this happened AFTER Kyoto, global warming etc..
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Pyrex
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:16 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 1):
Car builders build what the Market wants , if Americans want big cars , big cars will be built .
The customers have to change the builders and not the builders the customers .

True. Do you think anyone in Europe will buy a 4x4 with a 5.0l gasoline engine? 4x4s in Europe are sold almost exclusively with lower-capacity diesel engines.

That doesn't excuse them of being road mammooths, though...
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Superfly
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:17 am

Galapagapop & PPVRA gets it!  yes 
That's why my first sentence was "Cost and reliability aside".


Jamesbuk:
I certainly understand the need for 4WD but these vehicles would have it's warranty voided if they were taken off road. Yes I know it comes in handy on icy roads.
Many people buy they 4X2 option to save a few dollars but still get to have that all important 3-pointed star in there driveway to impress there neighbors. Then they take that drive up to Lake Tahoe in the winter and reminded that even SUVs has it's limitations.

Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 6):
But someone who bought an $80k X5 or S-Class would look pretty silly complaining about mileage.

You'd be suprised.
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checkraiser
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 8):
Just out of interest, you all rip 4X4's but are they any safer in like icing conditions and stuff?

Absoluetly. The only people that say otherwise are those that don't live where the winters are brutal.

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
Keep in mind, the Europeans and Japanese don’t import many of there heavy-duty commercial grade trucks.

I understand the premise of your thread (and even agree that the foreign SUV's are given a pass.) But commercial trucks are excluded from the fleet MPG averages for all manufacturers.
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Superfly
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:24 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 12):
For all the faults of the american driver, Europeans have gone nuts with their cars,

I don't understand this. Europe has such a sophisticated rail system in place. Combine that with the better beer they have, it makes more sense to ride the train.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
andessmf
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:25 am

What surprises me is that my V8 Toyota Sequoia gets about 18 mpg+ in HWY alone, and it can seat 8 in comfort.
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:32 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
better beer

Take that back, their beer sucks =)
Nonav.com kinda like Whiners except the lights are on and the pimps been paid
 
deltadc9
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 2):
"Hemi"

Hemis are actually much more efficient than their magnum predecessors.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 13):
That doesn't excuse them of being road mammooths, though...

My Tahoe feels quite small compared to the massive number of Kenworths and Peterbuilts, but noone complains about how beg they are? Agenda?

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 17):
What surprises me is that my V8 Toyota Sequoia gets about 18 mpg+ in HWY alone, and it can seat 8 in comfort.

The new Tahoes get 22 MPG! about a 20% improvement over the previous version.
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BR715-A1-30
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:35 am

I am proud to say that I drive a 2006 Toyota Corolla "S"



She gets 30cty and 38hwy, but on average, I get about 32 mpg or 380 miles on a tank (whichever comes first).
She has a 1.8L 126HP VVT-i engine

She may not be the hottest, most stylish, and loudest car in the bunch, but she gets me from A to B EFFICIENTLY.

Before I got "BlueAngel" I had "Pony"


This thing was a 3.8L 256HP, but I only really got about 120 HP out of it the whole time I had it. It needed a lot of work on the engine, transmission, fuel system, wheels. It needed a new paint job, Interior redone, and I just didn't have the money to work on it, or the time. Besides, at the rate gas prices are going, I couldn't have afforded to keep her running. At $3.35 a gallon, and only getting 21mpg on that car 18/28mpg, It would cost me a fortune.

So I can proudly say I am doing my part to keep America efficient.. ARE YOU?
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Scooter01
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:39 am



My favourite gas-guzzler Used for fjord-rafting in Oslo -comes in to visit me for a fill-up of 400 litres 2-3 times a week  biggrin 


Scooter

[Edited 2007-05-21 23:50:50]
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Superfly
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 19):
Hemis are actually much more efficient than their magnum predecessors

 checkmark 
...and is within a few mpg of a Honda Accord. The new HEMIs get better milage than many of the little V6 engines in the vehicles listed above.
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L410Turbolet
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzl

Tue May 22, 2007 6:42 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 19):
My Tahoe feels quite small compared to the massive number of Kenworths and Peterbuilts, but noone complains about how beg they are? Agenda?

Please tell me you weren't serious with your question.
 
Superfly
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:43 am

BR715-A1-30:
Sounds like you owned a lemon. If you got the GT, you would have got 26 mpg.
Bring back the Concorde
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:46 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
new HEMIs

Trust me, I know what the HEMIs effieciency is. You also have to look at what year, 05 is less efficient than the 06 and the original HEMI is terrible to todays standards, but thats niether here nor there. I was just quoting what you wrote in the thread starter.
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unitedMSY
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
BR715-A1-30:
Sounds like you owned a lemon. If you got the GT, you would have got 26 mpg.

Either that, or it just needed a LOT of work. I loved "Pony", I really didn't want to get rid of her, but I didn't have $7,500 to repair the engine, paint, wheels, transmission, and all the other small parts including the interior. I get more then $250.00 a month to make a car payment
 
PPVRA
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:50 am

Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 21):

Holy crap! Is that for real?

Looks like a tourist type of thing. No wonder, Zodiacs are a heck of a ride.  Smile
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
Superfly
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:54 am

RichPhitzwell:
My comment wasn't directed at you and yes I am well aware of the difference between a late 1960s Hemi and the modern Hemi.


UnitedMSY:
 checkmark 
I know three people with the last last Fox platform Mustangs and they are very happy with them. None have had the problems that BR715-A1-30 had.
Keep in mind, a lot of knuckleheads buy these cars and beat them up. Many get the base V6 treat it as a GT thus creating a world of headaches for the next owner once they sell it.
Bring back the Concorde
 
TeamAmerica
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 1):
Car builders build what the Market wants , if Americans want big cars , big cars will be built .
The customers have to change the builders and not the builders the customers .

 checkmark Nobody forces Americans to buy these cars, and Europeans wouldn't ship them if we weren't buying.

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 8):
Just out of interest, you all rip 4X4's but are they any safer in like icing conditions and stuff? is the average amount of people who die/killed in icing conditions higher or lower in SUV's/4X4's and are 4X4's beneficial in anyway in a normal everyday life?

Let's differentiate what we mean by 4x4 (a vehicle intended for off-road) vs. "all-wheel drive". An all-wheel drive vehicle with electronic traction and stability control is safer on ice. A 4x4 driven by a Texan who thinks it makes him invulnerable to ice becomes a ballistic missile. You've probably seen the videos. spin 

Quoting Superfly (Reply 16):
I don't understand this. Europe has such a sophisticated rail system in place. Combine that with the better beer they have, it makes more sense to ride the train.

Good point. On my most recent visit to Switzerland we planned a group trip to a destination with handy rail access. Our Swiss hosts overruled the rail trip and insisted that we drive!

As for beer, the chauvinism must end! European beer is good. So is American beer. Enjoy the variety and support the debate (which requires endless re-examination of fresh samples in adequate quantities to cloud the issues and avoid any conclusions). smile 
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DL787932ER
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 7:07 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 6):
But someone who bought an $80k X5 or S-Class would look pretty silly complaining about mileage.

You'd be suprised.

 no  Actually, I completely understand the desire to complain. We're getting ripped off by current gas prices, and even someone who can easily afford to pay to fill up a gas guzzler has the right to be unhappy about that.

So maybe I misspoke slightly. If you're driving a high end SUV or large luxury sedan, either you can afford gas for it, or you overextended yourself buying a car you really couldn't afford in the first place. In either case, you certainly have the right to complain, it's just that no one will necessarily feel sorry for you.

But using only public transportation isn't practical for the vast majority of Americans, who need a car to get to work, run errands, etc. So someone who makes a lower income and needs a vehicle to get by may be getting really squeezed by gas prices, even if they didn't buy an extravagant car. That's why people worry about the more "average" or less expensive cars that get average (or worse) gas mileage than they do the luxury SUVs.
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DAL767400ER
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 7:10 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 10):
The only thing that I don't get is that everyone is complaining about the high gas prices here, but SUVs are as popular as never before.

Typical hypocrisy of most folks.

Personally, I dislike most of those cars above, especially the Q7, which IMHO is just an A6 sedan on a steroid overdose.
Give me a good sedan over an SUV any day. They allow for loading lots of stuff and require much less fuel. Not to mention that I rarely ever need 4x4 abilities in the inner city or on the typical German Autobahn.
 
ACDC8
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 8:22 am

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 20):
This thing was a 3.8L 256HP

Unless that pony car has had mods done on it, the 3.8L V6 was only rated from 145 -150 HP for the SN-95 in your photo (which I'm assuming is a 96-98 based on the tail lights). The only engine on a base Mustang that has reached 260hp is the 4.6L V8 on the GT from 1999-2004. The current engines are the 4.6L V8 rated at 300hp and 4.0L V6 rated at 215hp, of course these are just the base engines.
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aloges
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 8:29 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 31):
Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 10):
The only thing that I don't get is that everyone is complaining about the high gas prices here, but SUVs are as popular as never before.

Typical hypocrisy of most folks.

Personally, I dislike most of those cars above, especially the Q7, which IMHO is just an A6 sedan on a steroid overdose.
Give me a good sedan over an SUV any day. They allow for loading lots of stuff and require much less fuel. Not to mention that I rarely ever need 4x4 abilities in the inner city or on the typical German Autobahn.

That's really all that needs to be said about 95% of SUVs. People who work in the forest or in construction or similar off-road surroundings are pretty much the only ones who have a need for an SUV - and how many of those buy Porsche Cayennes, Lexus RXs or Lincoln Navigators?
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runway24r
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 9:14 am

This is not meant to be a rant or dig at 4x4 owners, but my experience has lead to these conclusions:

People who need a 4x4 (Farmers, construction workers, etc) will drive REAL 4x4s like Land Rovers and Mitsubishi L200s and are not afraid to get 'em dirty!!!!

People who are on ego trips will pitch up to school in their X5s, Porsche Cayennes, etc to pick up their kids. I went to a public school, and this was the sad (embarrassing) reality of it. Most of these SUV's are purchased to make a statement, nothing else.

This is not a blanket statement, but just my experience of SUV owners in the UK.

In answer to Jamesbuk (Reply 8), ofter SUV's are more dangerous due to the much higher centre of gravity. I read an article in a magazine recently about a man was driving his Volvo S60 saloon at 70mph when an SUV (driver with no passengers) pulled out of a field gate into his path. The front section of the Volvo on the drivers side hit the passenger door of the SUV. SUV rolled, Volvo driver walked away, SUV driver was rushed to hospital.

It is a common myth that SUV's are safer. I dare say the safest cars are the likes of the Volvo V70 AWD and Audi A4/6 Quattro (Well built, low centre of gravity, 4 wheel drive, powerful engines)

Cheers, Rob
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deltagator
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 8):
Just out of interest, you all rip 4X4's but are they any safer in like icing conditions and stuff?

Nothing is safer in ice. In Atlanta we don't get a lot of snow but we usually get 1 or 2 decent ice storms a year. Us good Southerners know just to plan ahead, get some munchies, and stay at home. Meanwhile all the Damn Yankees grumble about how they lived up north and will be just fine. 15 minutes later they are calling the tow truck because they are in a ditch or slammed into the inside wall of the interstate from sliding. It's quite comical to watch.
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galapagapop
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 9:52 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 35):
Nothing is safer in ice. In Atlanta we don't get a lot of snow but we usually get 1 or 2 decent ice storms a year. Us good Southerners know just to plan ahead, get some munchies, and stay at home. Meanwhile all the Damn Yankees grumble about how they lived up north and will be just fine. 15 minutes later they are calling the tow truck because they are in a ditch or slammed into the inside wall of the interstate from sliding. It's quite comical to watch.

4x4's are really more or less maginally better than a sedan in ice. The adavntage for most SUV's comes from their sheer weight that helps spread the load and put more pressure on the ice below your tires helping melt and create friction. No SUV or car or anything outside maybe a tank can conquer thin sheets of ice. SUV's only help idiots drive faster and in more control in rain and other weather conditions where common sense could prevail making any sedan match the SUV.

SUV's would loose 90% of their attractiveness if people just used their heads and planned ahead.

It's all an illusion of safety and control...........
 
vikkyvik
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting Jamesbuk (Reply 8):
Just out of interest, you all rip 4X4's but are they any safer in like icing conditions and stuff? is the average amount of people who die/killed in icing conditions higher or lower in SUV's/4X4's and are 4X4's beneficial in anyway in a normal everyday life?

Well, I live in the Boston area, and I drive the Honda Civic, which is almost the exact same as this:

Quoting BR715-A1-30 (Reply 20):
She gets 30cty and 38hwy, but on average, I get about 32 mpg or 380 miles on a tank (whichever comes first).
She has a 1.8L 126HP VVT-i engine

(except mine has a manual transmission)

And I've never had a problem driving in rain, snow, ice, etc. Just slow the hell down and pay attention. Or better yet, don't drive.
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
Twistedwhisper
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 5:15 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 19):
My Tahoe feels quite small compared to the massive number of Kenworths and Peterbuilts, but noone complains about how beg they are? Agenda?

A Kenworth is a commercial vehicle for hauling large amounts of goods, it's a so called purpose built vehicle.
It can haul, I don't know... 60-65.000 lbs (should be roughly 10 times more than your Tahoe) and get 8-9 miles per gallon

What you're doing is comparing a two seated Piper and the space shuttle. Or a Bayliner daycruiser and a 6700 TEU container vessle.

Lucky you were just joking with your post, it would have made you look silly if you were serious.

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 15):
Absoluetly. The only people that say otherwise are those that don't live where the winters are brutal.

Why is it safer, because 4x4 gives you better traction? It still stops in roughly the same distance as a 2x4 and if you rely on that better traction alone will keep you safe I would urge you to reconsider. In icy conditions you need to adopt a whole new way of driving, traction is good only if you want to swerve to avoid an obsticle on the road, or if you want to accelerate fast.

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):

I do complain about them. City people that buy a SUV (or what ever deviant name you'd like to call them) should be ashamed. Anyone that go and buy a gas guzzler and then complain about the fuelprices deserves no sympathy.

"I need my SUV". Why, because you once a year like to take it to Lake Tahoe, and the rest of the year you cruise the streets of San Bernardino? I don't think so.
Read between the lines.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:05 pm

One of my vehicles has you all beat. It gets around 45 mpg and will out run just about anything on the road.  Smile




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L410Turbolet
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:34 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 12):
Now, average engine size has at least doubled. You can get a VW Golf with a supercharged V-6! You can buy a new Mini (at over twice the weight of the old one) with 250 hp, straight out of the factory!

a) One of the reasons is boom of diesel engines which tend to have higher displacement yet much better gas mileage. Increase from 23% to 41% share between 1994-2002.

b) GTI is Golf's top end model. How many 1.6, 1.9TDI, 1.4TDI Golfs are sold for every VR6???

c) Show me top 10 bestselling models in the EU and in the US
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 6:45 pm

Quoting Runway24R (Reply 34):
This is not a blanket statement, but just my experience of SUV owners in the UK.

and here.... but I will vigourously defend people's right to buy and drive whatever they wish. The larger the vehicle, the more fuel, therefore taxes, people pay, and in Portugal at least, higher annual road tax (varies by engines size and fuel type.)

Cyclists and Smart car owners on the other hand, should be taxed per mile. Twice. And 3 times on the weekend.  Big grin
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JJJ
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 7:08 pm

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 40):
Show me top 10 bestselling models in the EU and in the US

As an excercise:

EU. Jan-March 07
Opel/Vauxhall Corsa 118.005
Fiat Punto 115.609
Ford Focus 113.224
Peugeot 207 112.540
Renault Clio 109.653
Opel/Vauxhall Astra 108.799
Ford Fiesta 106.329
VW Golf 102.057
VW Passat 80.353
BMW Serie3 75.137

Over 60% of them are diesels.

US. Ranking for the whole 2006 year
1. Ford F-Series pickup
2. Chevy Silverado
3. Toyota Camry
4. Toyota Corolla
5. Honda Accord
6. Dodge Ram
7. Honda Civic
8. Chevy Impala
9. Chevy Cobalt
10. Nissan Altima

Everyone draw their own conclusions.
 
checkraiser
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 9:03 pm

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 38):
Why is it safer, because 4x4 gives you better traction? It still stops in roughly the same distance as a 2x4 and if you rely on that better traction alone will keep you safe I would urge you to reconsider. In icy conditions you need to adopt a whole new way of driving, traction is good only if you want to swerve to avoid an obsticle on the road, or if you want to accelerate fast.

In a purely ice storm, like what Delta Gator gets his way, I'll admit 4X4 doesn't give you much of an edge. When you're in snow, or driving in that slushy snow that eventually gets packed down to a rough sort of ice, 4X4 does give you an advantage.

A true 4X4 also does do better braking in limited traction. If the driveline is locked in you get 50/50 braking power front and rear, as opposed to the typical 80/20. This doesn't apply to the fancy AWD systems.

Four wheel drive doesn't make you invinvcible, but it sure does help when conditions get nasty.
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PHLBOS
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 9:09 pm

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):
Keep in mind, the Europeans and Japanese don’t import many of there heavy-duty commercial grade trucks.

No, they just make them here in the good ol' USA:





Similar to the car or the SUV market, when a Japanese company offers a vehicle as large (& as thirsty) as their American rivals (and we're not talking super-luxo-brands here, folks); reviewers (especially Consumer Reports) seem to look the other way in terms the lower gas mileage figures associated with these vehicle types.

I can assure you that if Toyota launched a true rival (V8, RWD) to the Crown Vic tomorrow; every reviewer would be going absolutely Ga-Ga over it despite it posting similar mileage figures.
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deltagator
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 9:10 pm

Quoting JJJ (Reply 42):
Everyone draw their own conclusions.

Hmmm....I see a bunch of small to mid-sized cars in Europe vs. 3 truck and 7 small to mid-sized cars in the US. Don't see much of an issue at all really. Heck, not even one SUV among the bunch in the US.

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 38):
City people that buy a SUV (or what ever deviant name you'd like to call them) should be ashamed. Anyone that go and buy a gas guzzler and then complain about the fuelprices deserves no sympathy.

Your two thoughts are not exclusive. I also have no pity on folks that buy a big SUV/truck/car (why limit it to SUVs?) and then bitch about gas. But to lump all city folks with SUVs into the same camp and say they should be ashamed of themselves is a bit of a stretch.

Quoting TWISTEDWHISPER (Reply 38):
"I need my SUV". Why, because you once a year like to take it to Lake Tahoe, and the rest of the year you cruise the streets of San Bernardino? I don't think so.

What about minivans? They don't get super great mileage compared to so many micro-mini Eurocars so are they almost as bad as SUVs? I know this might come as a shock to many of you but perhaps they like the space of the SUV. I know we get plenty of use out of our Honda Odyssey minivan to haul the rugrat, 3 dogs, the little lady, and myself to visit family or just to carry firnds around town for stuff. Try doing that in a little Eurocar.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 9:20 pm

Quoting Superfly (Thread starter):

You´ve to admit ... nice cars specially the German ones !  duck 

Konstantin
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MD11Engineer
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting Aloges (Reply 33):
That's really all that needs to be said about 95% of SUVs. People who work in the forest or in construction or similar off-road surroundings are pretty much the only ones who have a need for an SUV - and how many of those buy Porsche Cayennes, Lexus RXs or Lincoln Navigators?

All of the cars shown there are not real off road cars, but "Geltungstriebwagen", cars to show off for people with small willies. My boss drives the BMW, no scratches, brightly polished and I'll bet it has never been off roads in it's life. A colleague tried to offere me a Cayenne, knowing that I'll need a replacement for my old Suzuki Samurai in a while. Same story, never used off roads. He wants to get rid of it due to it's fuel consumption (regular unleaded goes in Germany now for € 1.40 per liter).
These cars would be absolutely no use for me. Too expensive (both in buying and in maintenance), no stowage space, too high fuel consumption and no real off road capability (or can you imagine to cross a river or drive through a deep mud hole in one of them?).
Unlike e.g. a diesel powered Landrover Defender, they are absolutely no use for builders or forestry workers either.

My boss, he is a typical customer for these cars: Mid forties, always an artificial sun tan and athletic (the gym type, not from physical work, like e.g. a builder), strong handshake (it should probably make another person think that he can trust my boss), acting young and dynamic and an agressive businessman, but in fact lying whenever he opens his mouth. All pretention.

Fortunately you don't see too many of these cars around in Germany. They are too expensive and have limited use. The same applies to the S-class Mercs, though they rather appeal to the older type of businessman.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
MCOflyer
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzl

Tue May 22, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting Scooter01 (Reply 21):


My favourite gas-guzzler Used for fjord-rafting in Oslo -comes in to visit me for a fill-up of 400 litres 2-3 times a week biggrin

That thing is supposed to be fuel efficient yielding nearly 1.5 miles a gallon. Not too shabby.

My SUV, a 2000 Suzuki Grand Vitara gets 19 in the city and 23 on the highway. I put in 40 dollars every 8 days for gas.

Hunter

[Edited 2007-05-22 15:24:28]
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Superfly
Topic Author
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RE: How Come Nobody Complain About These Gas Guzzlers?

Tue May 22, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 44):
I can assure you that if Toyota launched a true rival (V8, RWD) to the Crown Vic tomorrow; every reviewer would be going absolutely Ga-Ga over it despite it posting similar mileage figures.

 checkmark 
Isn't that the truth?!?!  yes 
Look at how the reviews were head over heals when the Lexus LS400 first came out. Granted it's a great car and all, for a Japanese car that is.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 46):
You´ve to admit ... nice cars specially the German ones !

Some German cars are fantastic. The Germans make the best diesel powered economy cars in the world. The VW TDIs are wonderful. Even I owned one before.
High-end German cars are over engineered, over-priced, over-hyped status symbols.
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