MDorBust
Topic Author
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 11:32 am

Well, at least it isn't, "think of the children" type pandering yet.

Nope, it's "think of the wildlife"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18788333/

Quote:
Immigration fence seen as dead end for wildlife
Activists fear big cats, tortoises will be cut off from water at Rio Grande

For a real giggle, view the slide show of wildlife that will be endangered by a fence.

There's: Trees... moss .... butterflies... lizards... birds.. birds.. and more birds. Oh, and a cat.

It's a wall, not some crazy sci-fi laser barrier. The trees, moss, butterflies, birds, and lizards won't notice. If that Ocelot is half as sneaky as the bobcats I have to deal with, just put a ten inch pipe under the wall and it'll get through just fine.

I would also like to take issue with:

Quote:
In addition, some worry that the barrier --- described in some plans as triple-layer metal fencing --- will damage the tourism industry along the Rio Grande.

NEWSFLASH: No one goes to the border to look at the border!


No, the wall won't solve the illegal immigration problem. But at least it's a start in the right direction. Fear mongering arguments like this are just a red herring to keep us from doing what needs to be done.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 11:54 am

Show me a 20ft fence and I'll show you a 21ft ladder.
Ain't I a stinker?
 
tz757300
Posts: 2725
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:21 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 12:06 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 1):
Show me a 20ft fence and I'll show you a 21ft ladder.

Show me a 20' fence with lots of electrified barbed wire at the top, I'll show you no illegals.
LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
 
MDorBust
Topic Author
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 12:06 pm

I'll see your ladder and up you a grappling hook and knotted rope.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 12:12 pm

Show me a 20' fence with lots of electrified barbed wire at the top

I'll show you 40ft deep and 400yd tunnel.
Ain't I a stinker?
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6672
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 1:02 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 4):
Show me a 20' fence with lots of electrified barbed wire at the top

I'll show you 40ft deep and 400yd tunnel

So, are you saying we just open up the border to every Tom, Ahmed and Pablo? Walls, fences and barriers do work, along with tough enforcement of the current laws we have on the books.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 1:54 pm

Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 5):
So, are you saying we just open up the border to every Tom, Ahmed and Pablo? Walls, fences and barriers do work, along with tough enforcement of the current laws we have on the books.


What Confucsius is saying is that no matter what border we build, the illegal immigrants will find a way to circumvent it. You sound like a knee-jerk conservative who doesn't read what is presented, but merely looks at a few words and spouts off like a rocket without a guidance system. Whether you are or not is not of any consequence to me. The important thing is: YOU SOUND LIKE ONE.

[Edited 2007-05-22 06:58:46]
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Halcyon
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 2:02 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 4):
Show me a 20' fence with lots of electrified barbed wire at the top

I'll show you 40ft deep and 400yd tunnel.

Something is better than nothing, eh? A tunnel like that would be a lot easier to control than the open countryside. Making it harder won't make them more tempted to try.
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 2:06 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 6):
What Confucsius is saying is that no matter what border we build, the illegal immigrants will find a way to circumvent it.

And that's bullshit, by the way. Give me 5 minutes and I'll design you a wall that would prevent all illegal immigrants (of course aside from the ones with technological abilities greater than us of course) from passing over, through, or under it without being physically stopped or detected.

This nation is very capable of securing our borders, especially with the south. We have the technology, ability, and means to do it, but we won't. Our government is useless, composed of scum sucking politicians out to help their image/career rather than their country. Out of being politically correct, we can't even enforce our own laws.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 6):
You sound like a knee-jerk conservative who doesn't read what is presented

And you sound like a knee-jerk liberal who mindlessly buys into the crap of which was presented.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
Mir
Posts: 19107
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 2:09 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 6):
What Confucsius is saying is that no matter what border we build, the illegal immigrants will find a way to circumvent it.

I forgot who it was, but some political figure said something to the effect that it is a very tall order to expect the US Border Patrol to do something that decades of communism could not - defeat the economic laws of supply and demand. I'm inclined to agree.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 2:11 pm

What Confucsius is saying is that no matter what border we build, the illegal immigrants will find a way to circumvent it.

Thanks, that's what I meant but I'm always lost for words.  Wink Anyway, desperate people will find desperate means.
Ain't I a stinker?
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 2:17 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 8):
And you sound like a knee-jerk liberal who mindlessly buys into the crap of which was presented.

Hey, I am a social liberal (read: Libertarian) when it comes to health care, gay rights (marriage), abortion, euthanasia, death penalty and such things. You have no idea (apparently) what I think about illegal immigration. I hate it. I would go much further than a wall. All I was trying to do was to respond to a member who jumped to a ridiculous conclusion based upon a statement that was obviously misunderstood. You can try to portray me as a knee-jerk liberal, but you are grasping at straws. Meet me in person and let's have a beer and a chat; you'll get it. It appears that all you did was to jump on a conservative bandwagon because I challenged one of your own. Shame, shame, shame. You really need to be more careful about whom you trash.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 2:27 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 11):
You have no idea (apparently) what I think about illegal immigration. I hate it. I would go much further than a wall.

If you "hate it" and would go much "further" than a wall............2 questions,

A. What would you do?
B. How can you possess this attitude when you agree with a statement which implies that nothing can be done to stop it?

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 11):
All I was trying to do was to respond to a member who jumped to a ridiculous conclusion based upon a statement that was obviously misunderstood.

Or rather, affront a member who jumped to a conclusion based upon a statement that may have been misunderstood. But whatever.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 11):
It appears that all you did was to jump on a conservative bandwagon because I challenged one of your own.

Conservative bandwagon my ass - I didn't know only conservatives were against illegal immigration, and it's hardly what I'd call a bandwagon.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 11):
Shame, shame, shame. You really need to be more careful about whom you trash

Perhaps you should as well. Fr8Mech may not be a knee-jerk conservative, or conservative at all.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 12):
If you "hate it" and would go much "further" than a wall............2 questions,

A. What would you do?
B. How can you possess this attitude when you agree with a statement which implies that nothing can be done to stop it?

A. Armed sentries on Parapets.
B. Because if I directed it, it would work. But, because our government is running it, it won't. Got it?

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 12):
Or rather, affront a member who jumped to a conclusion based upon a statement that may have been misunderstood. But whatever.

He railed confuscious with no good reason. That's clear. He had an agenda, and obviously didn't read what he had posted.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 12):
Conservative bandwagon my ass - I didn't know only conservatives were against illegal immigration, and it's hardly what I'd call a bandwagon.

Of course this issue encompasses both conservatives and liberals, but why did you rail me for sounding like a knee-jerk liberal, even if I am against illegal immigration?

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 12):
Perhaps you should as well. Fr8Mech may not be a knee-jerk conservative, or conservative at all.

Hell, I don't know, but based on his prior posts, he comes across as a conservative. I have no issue with that, but if he is condescending to someone who makes a statement about illegal immigration, AND MISINTERPRETS AND Irtysh-Avia (Kazakhstan)">IT, I'm gonna call him out on it.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 2:45 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 6):
What Confucsius is saying is that no matter what border we build, the illegal immigrants will find a way to circumvent it.

Bad argument, because at the same level you could say that no matter if you take a shower every day, you still have to do it again the next day, so why take a shower?

What you all miss is a good chunk of the reasons WHY they are coming, and why a lot of them will soon disappear. But there are also good reasons why the government will talk, and do nothing about it.

As you all know, many could consider me Hispanic, even though my father was German. My wife is from Mexico. I have a co-worker from Mexico (citizen now) who has plenty of legal and illegal family members here. So what I am about to tell you is from personal knowledge, not something gleaned from whatever SHIT politicians are using for a particular day.

I work in construction, and we are seeing something in California that was not seen even 5 years ago. It is a construction site full of illegals, certainly over 50%, if not more. You have to understand that way prior to this (I celebrate 18 years in the industry soon), it was well known within the industry that not enough people were picking construction as a career. So what you have is a perfect storm.

A housing boom begins, and companies start hiring illegals to do the work. The illegals get paid LESS than a legal worker, but WAY more than illegal laborers. Let's say that a good pay for a fruit picker was $5/hr. In construction, the same man would be paid $20/hr. But if he were legal, he would be paid $60/hr. So in a stupid sense, 'everybody wins'. REMEMBER: I DO NOT KNOW OF ANY LEGAL CONSTRUCTION WORKER WHO COULD NOT GET WORK.

This windfall for illegals bred additional interest for others to come and make a good living. At the same time, illegals started to (gasp!) purchase homes, get loans, etc., essentially creating another economy. And paying some taxes into the local economies.

These people come to the US and most do something first: purchase a Social Security number. This creates another interesting problem. You have about 9 MILLION people paying into a SS account, w/o real hope of ever receiving the benefits. Do we see a conflict now? How much tax money govenment is also getting from illegals. Whether illegals pay more into the system than they take out, that's another question.

These illegals then start to 'feel' more part of the system, witness by the increasing level of overt protests they conduct. I mean, they have houses, money, more 'professional' jobs, etc. And my wife and I sat flabergasted at a simple problem we had. We needed some temporary help at home, and most illegals that were referred to us, would not work for less than $20/hr. WTF? There are professional people in our office who would gladly work for that kind of money, especially since its tax free.

You all must also remember that California has a big problem now because there are not enough people to work the fields, after all, why work there when you can get paid so much more doing other things.

But what happened? The housing bubble burst, and some (for now) of those illegals are now looking for work that they cannot and will not get. The government will duly note that the unemployment rate has not gone up so high, since a lot of the unemployed were not official anyways. And soon you will have plenty of illegals with nothing to do.

What happens then? We'll see.

Jeez, that was my longest post ever. I hope I made some sense.
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 2:49 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 13):
B. Because if I directed it, it would work. But, because our government is running it, it won't. Got it?

Right - which is basically exactly what I said above. Got it?

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 13):
He railed confuscious with no good reason. That's clear.

He misunderstood his statement. Railed? Hardly.

That's clear.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 13):
He had an agenda

And you didn't when you decided to trash him instead of simply calling out his misunderstanding?

Everybody has agendas.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 13):
why did you rail me for sounding like a knee-jerk liberal, even if I am against illegal immigration?

Originally you didn't sound like you were.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 13):
I have no issue with that, but if he is condescending to someone who makes a statement about illegal immigration, AND MISINTERPRETS AND Irtysh-Avia (Kazakhstan)">AND Irtysh-Avia (Kazakhstan)">IT, I'm gonna call him out on it.

And instead of eyeing his mistake, you acted conscending to him in return. Kind of defeating your own purpose.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 2:51 pm

Before we even start with the deportation of illegals, first we need to secure the border. You don't mop up a mess a leak has created until you plug the leak.
That is why we need to start funding a large border fence.
Then, split Iraq into 3 countries, and bring the Natl. Guardsmen back, and have them guard the border for their stint instead of fighting in Iraq.
Then start deporting.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 2:57 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 14):
But if he were legal, he would be paid $60/hr.

All can say is this:

I am well educated, and I paid a great deal of money for it. That a construction worker can make over twice what I make to protect your drinking water is just digusting. All I want to do is to buy a house in the BOS area so my wife-to-be and I can settle down, but I'm not sure we can do it. Maybe I should learn to lean on a shovel, and then I could do it. I say this from experince, having been a project manager for construction in environmentally-sensitive areas.

Am I jaded? HELL YEAH! I can sleep at night for what I do, but I'm not sure where I'm gonna sleep tomorrow night.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
JJJ
Posts: 2249
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 6:43 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 17):
I am well educated, and I paid a great deal of money for it. That a construction worker can make over twice what I make to protect your drinking water is just digusting.

Supply and demand. That's all.

It's the very basis of our economic system which may not be the very best, but has proven to be the most stable so far.

Education in a sense is no different from every other investment, you make a choice based on your perception on what your future profits will be (pay, social recognition, exciting rather than boring or hard work, etc.) but there's no 100% guarantee that everything will go according to your predictions.
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 10:48 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 6):
What Confucsius is saying is that no matter what border we build, the illegal immigrants will find a way to circumvent it.



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 8):
And that's bullshit, by the way. Give me 5 minutes and I'll design you a wall that would prevent all illegal immigrants (of course aside from the ones with technological abilities greater than us of course) from passing over, through, or under it without being physically stopped or detecte

The East Germans built a fortified border, which was prototyped on a military training area and tested by elite soldiers by the Stasi Felix Dzershinski regiment. Still people managed to cross it illegally.

The Israelis are guarding their border 24/7, with obstacles and probably landmines. Still terrorists manage to cross it carrying weapons and explosives.

There exists no 100% proof border.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
tz757300
Posts: 2725
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:21 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 11:07 pm

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):

There exists no 100% proof border.

Very True.

Many times I use Starship Enterprise personally to use their transporters to move me. My secret weapon.
LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Tue May 22, 2007 11:31 pm

Watching Confuscius, NWA742, TZ757300 and MDorBust go at it was hillarious but very educational. It reminded me of drunks at a bar bragging or threatening the next guy pounding there chest.


I am sure the wall could work. It Worked well in Germany and China.

Should our nation build a wall similar to this?



http://www.tparents.org/Library/Unification/Photos/Uph-1920/Members-BerlinWall.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f8/Greatwall-SA3.jpg/800px-Greatwall-SA3.jpg
Bring back the Concorde
 
mbmbos
Posts: 2568
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 1):
Fear mongering arguments like this are just a red herring to keep us from doing what needs to be done.

Speaking of fear mongering, why does this need to be done?

Oh, are illegals taking our jobs? Are they hurting our economy? Oh, yes, they're changing our culture to reflect something that's terribly non-American. Oh, and, they make it easy for terrorists to blend in and enter our country.

In the grand scheme of selling fear, these arguments are screamed the loudest. And yet I've read very little that supports any of these theoretical fears.

Belive me, I'm open to hearing about it. I'm willing to believe it if it is well supported and reasoned. But mainly I hear fear and loathing.
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 12:59 am

Oh, are illegals taking our jobs? Are they hurting our economy?

The economy is doing just fine.


It reminded me of drunks at a bar bragging or threatening the next guy pounding there chest.

No, I can't threaten anyone when I'm drunk...i'll be passed out on the bar stool.


Should our nation build a wall similar to this?

Nah, just listen to this wall...

Ain't I a stinker?
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 23):
The economy is doing just fine.

Well someone has to be the scapegoat. We have an election coming up next year.  Wink
Bring back the Concorde
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 1:09 am

Well someone has to be the scapegoat. We have an election coming up next year.

I'm hoping a just compromise can be worked out on this issue.



Hey Superfly, just imagine if we didn't have a surplus during the Clinton years. Our national debt would be twice as big now!  stirthepot 
Ain't I a stinker?
 
MDorBust
Topic Author
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Watching Confuscius, NWA742, TZ757300 and MDorBust go at it was hillarious but very educational. It reminded me of drunks at a bar bragging or threatening the next guy pounding there chest.

That's great fly.

Did you miss the part where I haven't participated in the thread since reply #3 because I didn't like the bend the thread took? If you even bother to read my posts fly I've openly questioned the effectiveness of a wall.

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 22):
Speaking of fear mongering, why does this need to be done?

That's actually from my post, not Confuscius's.

And yes, there is solid evidence of a negative impact on the social services because of illegal immigration.

Ask Parkland Hospital and the DISD what happened to all their funding.



Save the Moss, keep illegal immigration legal.  sarcastic 
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
QueenofDaSkies
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:25 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 1:33 am

Quoting MDorBust (Thread starter):
No, the wall won't solve the illegal immigration problem.

I'm glad you see how stupid the wall idea is..........

Quoting MDorBust (Thread starter):
But at least it's a start in the right direction.

how is it a step in the right direction? Why not invest time and money in creating programs that make it easier for these people to obtain residency and work visas EASIER and FASTER. It's not an issue of money for them as they pay great amounts to cross. It is an issue of TIME. The residency process is simply too complicated and lengthy. What's the alternative? From one day to the other go from being in Mexico making no money to being in the US making money and sending it home to support their families. Hence why they are forced to take the "easier" option.
It's time to FLY!
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 26):
If you even bother to read my posts fly...

I did.
I am not criticizing your position at all. The early replies to this thread including yours was entertaining. That's all.  Smile

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 25):
I'm hoping a just compromise can be worked out on this issue.

Are you running for office too?

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 25):
Hey Superfly, just imagine if we didn't have a surplus during the Clinton years. Our national debt would be twice as big now!

Amen!  praise 
Bring back the Concorde
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6672
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 6):
What Confucsius is saying is that no matter what border we build, the illegal immigrants will find a way to circumvent it. You sound like a knee-jerk conservative who doesn't read what is presented, but merely looks at a few words and spouts off like a rocket without a guidance system. Whether you are or not is not of any consequence to me. The important thing is: YOU SOUND LIKE ONE.

Hey slick, I know exactly what he is saying. What I'm saying, and has already been said, is that the border needs to be controlled. Just because they can get around a wall is no reason not to build one. Make their job, of ILLEGALLY crossing our border, more difficult. Let's all remember, they are performing the illegal act, not the US.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
There exists no 100% proof border.

Same question: do we just give up the border because we can not secure it 100%?

A border wall will not solve all the illegal immigration problems, but it will make a dent in the crossings. That has to be step 1. Slow down the illegal traffic. We then need to deal with those here. For one, I think if an illegal has so much as gotten a speeding ticket, he should be booted back to whatever country he came from. Get them out of our prisons and send them to prisons in their home country.

But what do we do about those whose only crime is crossing the border? And remember, that is a crime. They need to go back and get in line. Why should they get preferential treatment over those that follow the rules? It just tells others to go ahead and cross if the opportunity presents itself. Why wait?

That's all for now.

Signed,

A legal, conservative immigrant.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 2:43 am

Quoting QueenofDaSkies (Reply 27):
Why not invest time and money in creating programs that make it easier for these people to obtain residency and work visas EASIER and FASTER

FYI about the 'Bracero Program'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program

One highlight:

but the agricultural program under various forms survived until 1964, when the two governments ended it as a response to harsh criticisms and reports of human rights abuses.

We can talk about how important it may be to set something similar up today, but I see political fights over possible abuses later.
 
MDorBust
Topic Author
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 3:19 am

Quoting QueenofDaSkies (Reply 27):
Why not invest time and money in creating programs that make it easier for these people to obtain residency and work visas EASIER and FASTER

I have no problem with reforming the current system for obtaining residency and work vistas.

The system is broken and needs fixing.

However, that's a function of bureaucracy in Washington.

Securing the border is a function of boots on the ground at the border.

They need not be mutually exclusive functions.

If they are just going to build a wall and declare the problem solved, they are fooling themselves.

Likewise, if they just reform the vista process and declare the problem solves, they are also fooling themselves.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
MaidensGator
Posts: 848
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:02 pm

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 3:43 am

I like this:

Congress has budgeted $1.2 million for the fences.

That allows thirty two cents a foot along the 700 mile length. At that price, you'll be lucky to get 3 foot high chicken wire.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
flyorski
Posts: 725
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:23 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 4:06 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 19):
There exists no 100% proof border.

Well Said!

Quoting Maidensgator (Reply 32):
Congress has budgeted $1.2 million for the fences.

Maybe they want to reinforce the existing wall that exists in some residential areas. I think that parts of southern California has a wall already. However it sounds like that is as much money as they might use to maintain what they already have............
"None are more hopelessly enslaved, than those who falsly believe they are free" -Goethe
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting Maidensgator (Reply 32):
I like this:

Congress has budgeted $1.2 million for the fences.

That allows thirty two cents a foot along the 700 mile length. At that price, you'll be lucky to get 3 foot high chicken wire.

That way everyone is happy. The anti-immigrant politicians and there supporters can pound there chest and say they have accomplished something and feel good about themselves.
Big agriculture such as Conagra, Foster farms as well as the rendering plants and slaughter house operations will go on and it's business as usual.
At the end of the day, it's just a non-issue with hot a lot of hot air on both sides.
Bring back the Concorde
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8557
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 8:11 am

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 22):

Speaking of fear mongering, why does this need to be done?

Oh, are illegals taking our jobs? Are they hurting our economy? Oh, yes, they're changing our culture to reflect something that's terribly non-American. Oh, and, they make it easy for terrorists to blend in and enter our country.

Those are hot-button statements made purely by those either consumed by political posturing or genuine dislike for foreigners. Dead wrong and distracting from the central issue in either case. The problem is that they are ILLEGAL residents. You don't give a pass to criminal behavior (much less social benefits) and you don't stab law-abiding folks in the back who went through the process. PERIOD.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
ual777
Posts: 1507
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 9:02 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Watching Confuscius, NWA742, TZ757300 and MDorBust go at it was hillarious but very educational. It reminded me of drunks at a bar bragging or threatening the next guy pounding there chest.


I am sure the wall could work. It Worked well in Germany and China.

Should our nation build a wall similar to this?

Not valid. Mexico isn't part of our country nor should it be.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 12:17 pm

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 8):
We have the technology, ability, and means to do it, but we won't.

Steve Austin is going to protect us?

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 16):
You don't mop up a mess a leak has created until you plug the leak.

Exactly....

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 16):
Natl. Guardsmen back, and have them guard the border for their stint instead of fighting in Iraq.

Most people here won't remember it but prior to the iraqi invasion I was a proponet of militarizing our border with Mexico. And it wouldn't need to be just the national guard. The regular Army should have a role in it also. Protecting out borders is part of their mandate.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 1:22 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Thread starter):
Quote:
In addition, some worry that the barrier --- described in some plans as triple-layer metal fencing --- will damage the tourism industry along the Rio Grande.

Oh, man, I almost fell over on that one.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Wed May 23, 2007 10:58 pm

Quoting UAL777 (Reply 36):
Not valid. Mexico isn't part of our country nor should it be.

People on the other side of those walls felt the same.
Anyhow, it looks like you're going to get your fence put in. As noted above, Congress set aside $1.2 million to have it build. At that rate, even the illegals wont accept those wages. Big grin
Bring back the Concorde
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Thu May 24, 2007 1:21 am

Are you running for office too?

Sure, I can run for Ed Jew's seat. I know I don't live in his district but neither does he! Big grin

BTW, is he your county supervisor?


That allows thirty two cents a foot along the 700 mile length. At that price, you'll be lucky to get 3 foot high chicken wire

That way everyone is happy. The anti-immigrant politicians and there supporters can pound there chest and say they have accomplished something and feel good about themselves.


Why not build a 100ft tall and 1 mile long fence then. Makes for a good photo op.
Ain't I a stinker?
 
User avatar
KaiGywer
Crew
Posts: 11182
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 9:59 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Thu May 24, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 35):
Those are hot-button statements made purely by those either consumed by political posturing or genuine dislike for foreigners. Dead wrong and distracting from the central issue in either case. The problem is that they are ILLEGAL residents. You don't give a pass to criminal behavior (much less social benefits) and you don't stab law-abiding folks in the back who went through the process. PERIOD.

Exactly. I went through the process and paid my dues. So can they. End of discussion.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
metroliner
Posts: 847
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:35 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Thu May 24, 2007 1:35 am

Quoting article:
gleefully identifying the song of the kiskadee and the gurgling call of the chachalaca

the who and what now? these animals are clearly fictitious.
Set the controls for the heart of the Sun
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Thu May 24, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 40):
Sure, I can run for Ed Jew's seat. I know I don't live in his district but neither does he!

BTW, is he your county supervisor?

You just HAD to remind me, didn't you?!?!!  mad 
Bring back the Concorde
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Thu May 24, 2007 2:10 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Should our nation build a wall similar to this?

According to a Telstra ad in Aus for the internet, the Great Wall of China was built by the Emperor Nasi Goreng, er to keep out the rabbits. You have to suspect that most walls have about a similar level of validity.

From Hadrian's wall on, few have lived up to the intentions. And what would R Reagan say:
a) on finding a wall along the border, or
b) to Gorby after building a wall along the border?

Good luck with the border problems and welcome to the globalized world. No wonder that Mexican cement company is taking over Rinker.

You could always hire the telephone operator from Kansas, who in 1977 assured me that Canada was not part of the Continent of the United States. All you need is to get her to cause Mexico to drift off to form another continental mass. It would sort out the problems of updating the Panama canal at the same time.


[Edited 2007-05-23 19:11:53]
 
MaidensGator
Posts: 848
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:02 pm

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Thu May 24, 2007 4:01 am

Quoting Metroliner (Reply 42):
Quoting article:
gleefully identifying the song of the kiskadee and the gurgling call of the chachalaca

the who and what now? these animals are clearly fictitious.

I never heard of them either, but Google has....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Kiskadee

http://www.enature.com/flashcard/sho...flash_card.asp?recordNumber=BD0640
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
metroliner
Posts: 847
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:35 am

RE: Fear Mongering For Illegal Immigration

Thu May 24, 2007 4:53 am

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 45):
Google

google is a lie the government wants you to believe...
Set the controls for the heart of the Sun

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: phatfarmlines and 4 guests