Mir
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The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Tue May 29, 2007 6:56 pm



-Mir
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oldeuropean
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Tue May 29, 2007 7:42 pm

A allegory about the differences between the the liberal US (Enterprise) and the US of the neocons ("The Imperium") .

Axel

[Edited 2007-05-29 12:47:26]
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
Klaus
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Tue May 29, 2007 8:32 pm

Quoting Oldeuropean (Reply 1):
A allegory about the differences between the the liberal US (Enterprise) and the US of the neocons ("The Imperium") .

And am I the only one who just has to think of Lord Helmet when watching Paul Wolfowitz squirm...?  mischievous 
 
Queso
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Tue May 29, 2007 10:14 pm

Very creative editing and very entertaining. Thanks for posting.
 
bagpiper
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 3:12 am

"lets get the hell outta here!"

read: "$#!% you win!!!!"



very entertaining!
 
trekster
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 5:00 am

Very well made
Love the fact RO appears, then Wesley in 2 different uniforms

Great stuff
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dl021
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 6:40 am

Well put together...

I fail to see any current political correlation, and I'm not really being obtuse about it.

Quoting Trekster (Reply 5):
Love the fact RO appears, then Wesley in 2 different uniforms

A fellow Trekker I see.....
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Banco
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 6:44 am

Not to mention that Admiral Piett from Star Wars is miraculously resurrected.

I wouldn't normally notice something like that, but well, I used to be in the same pub quiz team as Kenneth Colley who played him. Big grin
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zanl188
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 7:08 am

"Picard... I AM your Father... Search your feelings, you know it to be true....."
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trekster
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 6):

Sure am  Smile

A couple just got married in Greater Manchester dressed in full trek dress uniform, and some how managed to get the vicar to dress as a vulcan haha
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futurecaptain
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 7:44 am

Those tie-fighters didn't stand a chance against full phasers and photon torpedos.
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dl021
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 11:00 am

Quoting Trekster (Reply 9):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 6):


Sure am

A couple just got married in Greater Manchester dressed in full trek dress uniform, and some how managed to get the vicar to dress as a vulcan haha

Dude, it was a last second persuasion from my mother, sister and friends of my wife-to-be that prevented us from being married on the deck of the starship Enterprise at the ST Experience with Elvis dressed as a crewman performing the ceremony.

I had it arranged.
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MD-90
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 11:47 am

First, Star Wars vs Star Trek normally means "could the Empire kick the Federation's ass".

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

In a straight-up fight, the Empire squashes the Federation like a bug. Even with its numerical advantage removed, the Empire would still squash the Federation like a bug. Accept it.



Basically, Star Trek is a lot more realistic.
 
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LTU932
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 12:55 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 12):
In a straight-up fight, the Empire squashes the Federation like a bug. Even with its numerical advantage removed, the Empire would still squash the Federation like a bug. Accept it.

I don't know. The Borg almost destroyed the Federation two times (the first time during the Battle of Wolf 359 and the second time during the Battle of Sector 001), and yet they always survive. If the Federation can survive Borg attacks, I'm sure they can survive a war against the Empire, at least as long as Picard and Janeway are around.  Wink
 
GQfluffy
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 1:10 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 13):
at least as long as Picard and Janeway are around.

That's the reason the Borg got as far as they did.

If they would've been dealing with James Tiberius Kirk, they would've stayed in the Delta Quadrant.
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
futurecaptain
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 1:41 pm

I wonder if the Empire would survive a Borg attack? After one or two hits from the Empire's weapons the Borg would adapt and if the Borg got a hold of a jedi and used the force against the empire it would be quite a fight. I think in the end the Borg could defeat the Empire.

Q of course would snap his fingers and Darth would be destroyed

Now, what if we take away the ships, who would win? I bet a Klingon could beat a storm trooper, but I'm not so sure about Picard. He would probably die in hand to hand combat against anyone in the Empire.
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LTU932
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 2:10 pm

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 14):
If they would've been dealing with James Tiberius Kirk, they would've stayed in the Delta Quadrant.

Well, the problem is that by the time James Tiberius Kirk was captain of the Enterprise, the Borg were already on the way to the Alpha Quadrant, though you must not forget that they could have accelerated their arrival thanks to Transwarp technology. However, I'm sure that if Kirk was in charge, he would have given the Borg one hell of a battle as well.  Wink
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Wed May 30, 2007 2:51 pm

Haha, that was hilarious. Really shows the difference between the fantasy Star Wars and ever so slightly more realistic Star Trek.
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dl021
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 4:04 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 12):
In a straight-up fight, the Empire squashes the Federation like a bug. Even with its numerical advantage removed, the Empire would still squash the Federation like a bug. Accept it.

I don't know about that.

The preponderant use of smaller attack craft would give the Empire an advantage over the Federation which doesn't seem to use them, but the heavily armed Defiant class would probably even those odds, and they'd be able to have capital ship on capital ship encounters. The evening factor would be the presence of the Klingons with their cloaking devices and perhaps the participation of Romulans depending on their relationship with the Federation.

The added capabilities and numbers would even things up and the Empires ability to gather forces would be limited when account is taken for having to maintain order throughout the galaxy....

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 15):
Q of course would snap his fingers and Darth would be destroyed

There is always that. If he was so inclined it would be a very short battle.
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northstardc4m
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 4:34 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 18):
Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 15):
Q of course would snap his fingers and Darth would be destroyed

There is always that. If he was so inclined it would be a very short battle.

Yes but Q would be more likely to snap his fingers and put everyone in tutus... or at least turn all the phasers/blasters into cigars...

Anyways, Executor Star Dreadnought (19km long) vs Enterprise D (under 2 km long) = quick win for Empire. Even an standard Imperator I vs Enterprise wouldn't last long...
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SWISSER
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 4:42 am

When I see this it reminds me of a colleague's description of turbulence levels with the Star Trek "impact" effects on picard and his crew!

Quoting DL021 (Reply 18):
The added capabilities and numbers would even things up and the Empires ability to gather forces would be limited when account is taken for having to maintain order throughout the galaxy....

That is correct, imagine the federation discovering the hidden system Kamino and cutting of the empire's complete resource of troopers...

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 15):
He would probably die in hand to hand combat against anyone in the Empire.

not if he he has a phazer in one of those hands, he would phaze out all the energy of weapons and even lightsabers...
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dl021
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 4:44 am

OK...so if the Empire is so technologically advanced then why do they require such huge vessels?

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 19):
Yes but Q would be more likely to snap his fingers and put everyone in tutus... or at least turn all the phasers/blasters into cigars...

Yeah...he'd be a little difficult to control.



I'll retract my earlier stance on the reasons why Star Trek universe would defeat the Empire...

it'd take a total surrender then an acquisition of Empire tech from within while the Federation survivors joined up with the Rebellion and overwhelmed the Empire over a number of years.
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MDorBust
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 4:45 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 18):
but the heavily armed Defiant class would probably even those odds, and they'd be able to have capital ship on capital ship encounters.

Not to be too nerdy... But the Defiant would be outnumbered severly by just the Acclamator class ships. Having one good ship doesn't do much good when the opponent has hundreds of equal or better ships.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 18):
...The evening factor would be the presence of the Klingons with their cloaking devices

Nothing new to the Empire.
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bwest
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 4:46 am

Hmmm... here's how the heroïc encounter should really go:

Picard: "take us out of warp, mr Data"
Data: " yes sir"
Picard: "whatta"
Riker: "there's some huge object right in front of us... it's coming right at us..."
Picard "take evasive action"
Riker "too late"

*bam*

Death Star off. "Hm, did we just hit anything?"
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LTU932
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 4:54 am

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 19):
Anyways, Executor Star Dreadnought (19km long) vs Enterprise D (under 2 km long)

There's a problem: the Galaxy Class Enterprise D has been destroyed during the battle against Lursa and B'Etor. So the battle would have to be either against the Intrepid Class Voyager or the Sovereign Class Enterprise E (though Voyager would be even better prepared than the Enterprise E since it's got ablative hull armour and transphasic torpedoes from the future, along with the usual compliment of phasers and photon torpedoes, while the Enterprise E only has the quantum torpedoes extra along with phasers and photon torpedoes). And given their ingenuity, the fact that they got a Borg crewmember and a Klingon Security and Tactical Officer respectively, combined with the Picard Maneuver, could give the upper hand to the Federation.
 
MDorBust
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 4:55 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 21):
OK...so if the Empire is so technologically advanced then why do they require such huge vessels?

They haven't figured out how to shrink AT-ATs for transport yet. And the 38,000 Storm Troopers.. ... and the prefabricated garrison bases..and the 12 squadrons of Tie Fighters.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
SWISSER
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 5:07 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 24):
There's a problem: the Galaxy Class Enterprise D has been destroyed during the battle against Lursa and B'Etor. So the battle would have to be either against the Intrepid Class Voyager or the Sovereign Class Enterprise E (though Voyager would be even better prepared than the Enterprise E since it's got ablative hull armour and transphasic torpedoes from the future, along with the usual compliment of phasers and photon torpedoes, while the Enterprise E only has the quantum torpedoes extra along with phasers and photon torpedoes). And given their ingenuity, the fact that they got a Borg crewmember and a Klingon Security and Tactical Officer respectively, combined with the Picard Maneuver, could give the upper hand to the Federation.

They could call for assistance from the USS Sovereign, if i remember correctly it was equipped with very powerfull prototype torpedo whose name unfortunately was pushed out of my mind to make place for the neverending airline terminology...please remind me! I remember they where blue though and could destroy the Kessok!
What time is top of descent?
 
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LTU932
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 5:10 am

Quoting SWISSER (Reply 26):
They could call for assistance from the USS Sovereign, if i remember correctly it was equipped with very powerfull prototype torpedo whose name unfortunately was pushed out of my mind to make place for the neverending airline terminology...please remind me! I remember they where blue though and could destroy the Kessok!

Sounds more like quantum torpedoes, and those were already used on starships like the Defiant or USS Sao Paulo (the Defiant's successor).
 
trekster
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 5:45 am

Was there not something called transphasic torpedo's at some point????

Id like the battle group of the Federation to consist of, of course the Enterprise E and Voyager up front, with the first wave being Defiant class ships, followed by a load of the Prometheus class Starship seen in Voyager which can then split into there 3 parts.

After that, a load of Galaxy class mixed with Nebula class starships fitted with the weapons module. That should do well against the Armada

Just my thoughts
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LTU932
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting Trekster (Reply 28):
Was there not something called transphasic torpedo's at some point????

Yes. That was in Endgame, when Future Janeway gave present Janeway some of this future technology, including the transphasic torpedoes to fight the Borg.
 
trekster
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 6:04 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 29):

Thought so. One would just rip of Cube apart. Loved that Smile

And yea, it was all kirks fault as Vger turned out to be some part of the borg empire if im not mistaken???
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LTU932
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 6:09 am

Quoting Trekster (Reply 30):
And yea, it was all kirks fault as Vger turned out to be some part of the borg empire if im not mistaken???

That's all speculation. We don't know if V'ger was the result of a Borg attempt to assimilate Voyager 6 that went all wrong, and if it is, then it's not canon since the canon doesn't really say anything regarding where V'ger comes from, except that it was launched from Earth as Voyager 6. And it was not Kirk's fault, because V'ger was already on the way to Earth on its own before Kirk could intervene or intercept it.
 
trekster
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 6:19 am

He destroyed vger, so i think it may of casued the Borg to come closer to Earth. Of course the first PROPER meeting was with Picard and Q, but other mettings include the Enterprise B accident.

How do you think my armada would fair then?
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bwest
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 6:40 am

Can I be the first to say : "wtf" at the last few posts...  Wink
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trekster
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 6:45 am

Quoting Bwest (Reply 33):

LOL
Vger was in one of the original films and had been turned into a huge ship from one of the original Voyager probes. Some trekkies (trekkers) think it came into existence from the early borg (bad guys with lots of wires in em)
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bwest
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 7:05 am

And there I was, thinking it was all just a bunch of movies and TV-series  Wink
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dl021
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 9:58 am

Quoting Bwest (Reply 35):
And there I was, thinking it was all just a bunch of movies and TV-series

obviously you've never heard of the temporal cold war and it's side effect of messing with our timeline and history.

We're seeing into the future with these documentaries and double dumbass on you for not knowing it!!!!
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SWISSER
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 11:02 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 27):
Sounds more like quantum torpedoes, and those were already used on starships like the Defiant or USS Sao Paulo (the Defiant's successor).

I found it; Positron torpedo!
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MD-90
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 11:03 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 18):
The preponderant use of smaller attack craft would give the Empire an advantage over the Federation which doesn't seem to use them, but the heavily armed Defiant class would probably even those odds, and they'd be able to have capital ship on capital ship encounters.

At the time of ANH IV, the Empire had 24,000 Star Destroyers. If they had that many heavy cruisers, imagine the numbers of smaller craft that they had. The simple fact is that the universe of Star Wars is much larger and more populated than the (again, more realistic) universe that is shown in Star Trek.

And look at how very small ships sometimes gave the Enterprise-D trouble in ST:TNG. Imagine what a swarm of starfighters would do, let alone turbolasers on a Star Destroyer.
 
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LTU932
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting SWISSER (Reply 37):
I found it; Positron torpedo!

Interesting. I never heard of positron torpedoes before.
 
SWISSER
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 12:05 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 39):
Interesting. I never heard of positron torpedoes before.

There is this video game called Bridge commander, you will end up being the captain of the USS Sovereign!
I discovered the name of the torpedo in the dbase of that game.
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bwest
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 5:28 pm

btw, did anybody notice the magical resurrection of Admiral Piett in that clip?  Smile Or maybe he was a clone afterall...
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Banco
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 6:19 pm

Quoting Bwest (Reply 41):
btw, did anybody notice the magical resurrection of Admiral Piett in that clip?

*Cough*

Quoting Banco (Reply 7):
Not to mention that Admiral Piett from Star Wars is miraculously resurrected.

I wouldn't normally notice something like that, but well, I used to be in the same pub quiz team as Kenneth Colley who played him

 Wink
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
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bwest
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 6:29 pm

Ouch... sorry  Smile

I used a fragment of Piett in a filmquiz, aksed who the actor was. Surprisingly few correct answers  Smile
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Banco
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 7:09 pm

Quoting Bwest (Reply 43):
I used a fragment of Piett in a filmquiz, aksed who the actor was. Surprisingly few correct answers

Like a lot of character actors, he has one of those faces people recognise, but don't know the name. You'd often see people come up and talk to him thinking that they knew him but couldn't quite place him, and the panicky expressions of those desperately trying to work out exactly why they thought they knew him. Nice enough bloke.
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
Kieron747
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Thu May 31, 2007 7:25 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 44):
Like a lot of character actors, he has one of those faces people recognise, but don't know the name. You'd often see people come up and talk to him thinking that they knew him but couldn't quite place him, and the panicky expressions of those desperately trying to work out exactly why they thought they knew him. Nice enough bloke.

He is a good actor, and I have a lot of time for his work.

One of the best Inspector Morse episodes (The Second Time Sround) stars him and Christopher Eccleston.

I'm actually suprised he never turned up in the original series of Dr Who.

Michale Sheard (Admiral Ozzel) did several times, one of my favourites being in Pyaramids of Mars, where he played the mild-mannered brother character of a crazy Doctor. He was also in the last Dr Who story featuring the Daleks before the resurrection of the Daleks with christopeher Eccleston. Funnily enough, that story, with Sylvester McCoy was called "Rememberance of the daleks".

Kieron747

[Edited 2007-05-31 12:26:35]
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trekster
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:24 am

Michael Sheard was an amazing man. It is a sad lost he died.

I spent a weekend with him when I was involved in the RAFSTA (Royal Air Force Sci Fi and Trek Assocition)
He was the special guest for the weekend. Kissed the guys on the cheek, and shook the hands of the girls, was very funny. We all got to have a good chat to him, brought lots of drinks, me for him, him for me. And did an away mission with him in the group I was in. At the end he gave away a copy of one of his books (in which the RAFSTA were mentioned a very times) and signed it all, then said goodby to us all.

Aweekend i will not forget fora while
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jwenting
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:30 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 24):
(though Voyager would be even better prepared than the Enterprise E since it's got ablative hull armour and transphasic torpedoes from the future,

Ah, but by the Federation loosing that battle to the glorious Imperial Forces the future is changed so Voyager not only has those weapons at the start of the battle (clear sign they're going to loose it) but won't be there because she'll be destroyed in that future which now never happens so she can't get back from it.

Confused yet?
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trekster
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Fri Jun 01, 2007 5:42 am

Jwenting

I HATE TIME TRAVEL

Causes me a headache each time its talked about, im like Janeway with that one.
The one episode i know she hated time travel is the one with 2 sevens, the ball stopping during the table tennis match, i cant recall the epsiode name though.
Where does the time go???
 
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LTU932
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RE: The Enterprise Encounters The Imperial Fleet

Fri Jun 01, 2007 6:13 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 47):
Ah, but by the Federation loosing that battle to the glorious Imperial Forces the future is changed so Voyager not only has those weapons at the start of the battle (clear sign they're going to loose it) but won't be there because she'll be destroyed in that future which now never happens so she can't get back from it.

Confused yet?

But Picard and Janeway figure that out just before their destruction, and travel in time to prevent this outcome by doing a gravitational slingshot maneuver around the sun, like what Kirk did in Star Trek IV, and despite violating the Temporal Prime Directive, both are successful in their respective mission against the Galactic Empire. Big grin

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