halls120
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Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:03 am

Condolences to the German police injured by the ass*ole protesters.

Quote:
ROSTOCK, Germany (AP) - Protesters with black hoods and bandanas covering their faces showered police with rocks and beer bottles Saturday, before the heavily armored officers drove them back with water cannon and tear gas during a rally against an upcoming Group of Eight summit.

Black smoke from burning cars mingled with the sting of tear gas in the harbor-front area of the northern German town of Rostock, where tens of thousands of people had gathered peacefully at the start of the day. The clashes broke out among hundreds of stone-throwing demonstrators and police on the edges of the crowd as the rally progressed.

Some 146 police were hurt, 25 of them seriously. Police said they made 17 arrests.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070602/D8PGSBR00.html
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
mdsh00
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:19 am

Morons. Their free and capitalistic homelands allow them to be able to protest like this. I would never know the struggle of someone that grew up in Communism, nor would I want to. I don't understand why some here in the West romanticize it so much.
"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
 
fumanchewd
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:42 am

If you were to ask each one of these protesters what they wanted, they wouldn't be give you anything tangible. Just things like rights for all workers and down with global coporations, blah blah blah. The reality is that without the global economy alot more people would be starving around the world.

Its funny to see protestors wearing a shirt made in Italy, American shoes made in Korea, French pants made in Singapore while bitching about globalization.

Here's a montage of multinational-clothes wearing g8 protesters from the Scotland meeting that I got off the net.



It just comes down to that these people have nothing better to do. This gets them all excited like a soap opera.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
NWA742
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:30 pm

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 1):
Morons. Their free and capitalistic homelands allow them to be able to protest like this. I would never know the struggle of someone that grew up in Communism, nor would I want to. I don't understand why some here in the West romanticize it so much.

Sums it up quite nicely.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 2):
If you were to ask each one of these protesters what they wanted, they wouldn't be give you anything tangible. Just things like rights for all workers and down with global coporations, blah blah blah. The reality is that without the global economy alot more people would be starving around the world.

Its funny to see protestors wearing a shirt made in Italy, American shoes made in Korea, French pants made in Singapore while bitching about globalization.

Here's a montage of multinational-clothes wearing g8 protesters from the Scotland meeting that I got off the net.


It just comes down to that these people have nothing better to do. This gets them all excited like a soap opera.

Pretty damn hypocritical - of course not that any of these idiots would be bright enough to realize, but funny nonetheless.

This reminds me of several protests against Bush we've had around downtown Austin. You have a few people actually arguing for what they believe in, and then a bunch of assholes just there to bitch and call names, all so they can call themselves "activists," it's really quite pathetic.

I've got no problem with peaceful and ideological protests, but it seems they represent a vast minority of protests in general.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
RJdxer
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:43 am

I think if I were the Mayor of a town and the G-8 meeting selection committee came to my town, I'd have them all arrested and them drop them off at the city line. Who in their right minds would ever want one of these meetings any where near their city? It's an invitation to disaster and general mayhem not to mention the added costs of security and fencing. I can't think of a single city where the G-8 has held a meeting that I'm inclined to go visit just because that happend there so the tourist draw has to be zilch both during and after. If I were them I'd just pick a really nice cruise liner or abandoned oil platform and save a lot of people a lot of trouble.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
f.pier
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:59 am

I think it's a shame that hundreds of CRIMINALS are not in jail, but are free to go wherever they want to destruct everything.

In particular I'm thinking about Italian Black Block, all of them are well known by Italian police, but don't know why, Police don't stop them.

I hope German police (I think it's better than Italian police) will "convince" them to stop behaving that way. Doesn't matter how..... I'm open to every method, included physical violence.

Black Blocs don't deserve to live.
 
seb146
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 3):
This reminds me of several protests against Bush we've had around downtown Austin. You have a few people actually arguing for what they believe in, and then a bunch of assholes just there to bitch and call names, all so they can call themselves "activists," it's really quite pathetic.

It reminds me of the WTO meeting in Seattle. A few of the people at that protest were there to protest, a few others were just trying to live their lives, but it seemed a majority of "protesters" at WTO Seattle were there just to cause chaos.

GO CANUCKS!!
Life in the wall is a drag.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:53 am

Quoting F.pier (Reply 5):
In particular I'm thinking about Italian Black Block, all of them are well known by Italian police, but don't know why, Police don't stop them.

We call them "Black Block" (Schwarzer Block) as well. Effectively these guy (and girls) are "revolution romantics" who see themselves as the last true freedom fighters, in fact they are idiots and attention whores, who never got out of puberty.
While I find Merkel's idea of effectively blocking off a whole village and letting only those inhabitants stay during the G-8 summit who passed a security background check, over the top, I have absolutely no sympathy (same as for football hooligans) for those rioting idiots outside the fence. I have seen them in action in Berlin during the Kreuzberg riots in the 1980s, looting and burning (including fire engines).
I wish the police had a slightly harder distance weapons than just tear gas and the water cannon. Shotguns and rubber baton rounds would be fine.

The biggest problem is that the idiots grabbed all attention by the press and the legetimate concerns by the serious anti globalisation people get drowned.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
agill
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:00 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):

The biggest problem is that the idiots grabbed all attention by the press and the legetimate concerns by the serious anti globalisation people get drowned.

Well since fewer people than ever before are living in extreme poverty, i think it has gone down from 40% to 15 % in the last 25 years globalisation apparently has been positive for the majority of the worlds people.
 
dba4u
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:03 am

I was way to drunk this WE but otherwise I would have made my way to Rostock as well.

Eventough I'm not against globalization.

German police made a big mistake a few weeks ago when they enforced "preventive strikes against terrorists" which was basically just an excuse to search the homes of some people connected to the left scene. There were no reasons given apart from that "blabla terrorist blabla" tattle. Sure, some dumb people blew up some cars of important businessman during the last months, but the places searched had nothing to do with it! All they tried was to frighten the people.
So in what kind of country do I live? DemoCRAZY, huh? Some people started a demonstration on the very same evening as the raid. Police came up against those 2000 people with 1000 policeman and 7 waterthrowers just because some people expressed their opinion. I'm peaceful but stuff like that just pisses me off bigtime. I don't like those ultra-left people but enough is enough. This is more like the usual Leftist vs. Nazi vs. Police stuff here in Germany. That raid was an enormous attack on the freedom of speech and human rights.

So no, I'm not against globalization, but the way the officials are trying to frighten the people is just plain wrong.
eventough personally I wouldn't have made use of violence I somehow can't really blame those people actually making use of it. At least those who have witnissed the happenings on May 9.

Quoting Hamburger Abendblatt:
Gegen acht Uhr fr�h waren die Ermittler vor dem Kulturzentrum vorgefahren, mit 20 Mannschaftswagen. Sofort sperrten Beamte das Areal, w�hrend Kollegen das leere Geb�ude gewaltsam �ffneten. Die Polizisten brachen auch innen die T�ren auf, bis ein Anwalt dazukam.

"At 8 o'clock in the morning the police approached the cultural center with 20 crew buses. Immediatly they sealed the area and forcefully broke into the empty building. They started to break doors and enter the rooms inside the building until a lawyer appered on spot."

So they searched that house using violence while nobody was there! If that is legal I'd like to be called Ronald Schill
 
agill
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:09 am

Quoting Dba4U (Reply 9):
German police made a big mistake a few weeks...

Funny how it's always about how the police making some mistake. As long as these fascists are bent on raising hell, and the silent majority providing excuses, it's gonna happen.
 
TheCol
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:19 am

It's funny to see those hippies try and sue the cops for "police brutality" after they get pepper sprayed. I guess they figure they have the right to destroy private property and beat the crap out of the police. I think the penalties for those goons should be raised. They spend one night in jail, then they come back 24 hours later and do it all over again.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:20 am

Quoting Dba4U (Reply 9):
"At 8 o'clock in the morning the police approached the cultural center with 20 crew buses. Immediatly they sealed the area and forcefully broke into the empty building. They started to break doors and enter the rooms inside the building until a lawyer appered on spot."

So they searched that house using violence while nobody was there! If that is legal I'd like to be called Ronald Schill

As long as they either had a search warrant signed by a judge (most likely) or were acting in "Gefahr im Verzug" (imediate danger) they were legal.

IMO some of the radicals try to provoke police officers to use their firearms, e.g. by seperating an individual officer from his unit, trying to beat him up, or as with the Startbahn West (Runway 18 at FRA) in the 1980s, two radicals opened fire on the police, killing an officer, using a live pistol during a confused melee in the forest, hoping that the police would retaliate like the British Paras in Derry, Ireland in the 1970s, so that they can sghow the world that Germany is a fascist police state.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
tbar220
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:40 am

Quoting Mdsh00 (Reply 1):
Their free and capitalistic homelands allow them to be able to protest like this.

I don't see the connection between capitalism and freedom to protest.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 2):

Its funny to see protestors wearing a shirt made in Italy, American shoes made in Korea, French pants made in Singapore while bitching about globalization.

Here's a montage of multinational-clothes wearing g8 protesters from the Scotland meeting that I got off the net.

Where are you making this assumption? From some pictures that you found on the internet? Come now, there's got to be a better way to make your point.
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JAL777
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:59 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 13):
I don't see the connection between capitalism and freedom to protest.

Look harder.
 
tbar220
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:38 am

There isn't anything in our laws that says "capitalism = right to protest". In fact, even in China where Capitalistic style of economy pretty much rules the day, there is no right to protest. And even in the United States, capitalism is not equivalent to human rights and constitutional freedoms. That is because of our bill of rights and the constitution.
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Sabena332
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:40 am

The guys I saw on TV this evening were amateurs, they trew stones on a cop without removing his helmet before.  duck   Wink

Quoting Dba4U (Reply 9):
I was way to drunk this WE but otherwise I would have made my way to Rostock as well.

Same here, Jan Delay and Disko No. 1 were performing there yesterday night, I had driven to Rostock to see them (again) when I had have time.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
NWA742
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:41 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 13):
Where are you making this assumption? From some pictures that you found on the internet? Come now, there's got to be a better way to make your point.

I'm sure there's a better way for him, but he doesn't need one, it's obvious enough. Like being lectured by a PETA advocate or a vegan who's wearing a belt and has a leather jacket.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
tbar220
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 17):

I'm sure there's a better way for him, but he doesn't need one, it's obvious enough. Like being lectured by a PETA advocate or a vegan who's wearing a belt and has a leather jacket.

I'll say the same to you. If you are going to try and make a point by using one example (which you probably made up), that is pretty lousy debate/argument. I can say the following...

"There are terrorists on Mars, its pretty obvious, if you just look through a telescope you can see them on the surface. I don't need a better point than that, it proves everything."

... and it would be pretty damn asinine.

BUT.... if you want to use your standards, I can make some pretty damn solid arguments based on trivial, minor stuff I find on the internet too.
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rlwynn
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:09 am

I would like to go there to help the cops.
I can drive faster than you
 
MaverickM11
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:31 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 2):
It just comes down to that these people have nothing better to do.

I doubt the majority even know what they're protesting.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Sabena332
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:44 pm

I just read in the online edition of the "Bild" that one guy who trew stones already got a 10 months jail sentence. Pretty over the top IMO considering the guy is not previously convicted.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
NoUFO
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 21):
I just read in the online edition of the "Bild" that one guy who trew stones already got a 10 months jail sentence. Pretty over the top IMO considering the guy is not previously convicted.

Patrick

Ten months without parole for attempting to severely injure (or even kill) people - in multiple cases. Why is the sentence over the top? Make it 20 months, I wouldn't care.
I support the right to arm bears
 
dba4u
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 12):
As long as they either had a search warrant signed by a judge (most likely) or were acting in "Gefahr im Verzug" (imediate danger) they were legal.

Jepp, but...

+++GiV ist gegeben, wenn die Einholung eines vorherigen richterlichen Beschlusses den Ermittlungserfolg ganz oder teilweise vereiteln oder gef�hrden w�rde. Somit sind z. B. Anordnungen zur Wohnungsdurchsuchung durch den o. g. Personenkreis auch ohne richterlichen Beschluss m�glich.+++

So there's way to much room for individual interpretions

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 16):

Some of my friends were there, would have loved to go

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
I doubt the majority even know what they're protesting.

They do, and they're taking it way to serious. The world isn't perfect and they're not gonna change it
 
deltadc9
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 2):
Its funny to see protestors wearing a shirt made in Italy, American shoes made in Korea, French pants made in Singapore while bitching about globalization.

Ironic

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
We call them "Black Block" (Schwarzer Block) as well. Effectively these guy (and girls) are "revolution romantics" who see themselves as the last true freedom fighters, in fact they are idiots and attention whores, who never got out of puberty.

We call them "rebels without a cause"

Quoting Agill (Reply 8):
Well since fewer people than ever before are living in extreme poverty, i think it has gone down from 40% to 15 % in the last 25 years globalisation apparently has been positive for the majority of the worlds people.

I did not know that

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 13):
I don't see the connection between capitalism and freedom to protest.

Wow, do you have the right flag in your profile?

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 13):
Where are you making this assumption? From some pictures that you found on the internet? Come now, there's got to be a better way to make your point.

It was an excellent way to make a point, you obviously have an agenda.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 15):
There isn't anything in our laws that says "capitalism = right to protest". In fact, even in China where Capitalistic style of economy pretty much rules the day, there is no right to protest. And even in the United States, capitalism is not equivalent to human rights and constitutional freedoms. That is because of our bill of rights and the constitution.

You simply cannot see the forrest for the trees. Sad.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
allstarflyer
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 13):
I don't see the connection between capitalism and freedom to protest.

Capitalism is the result of a free market - which involves freedom from government intrusion, much like freedom from the government intruding on people's rights to protest.

The only question about the G-8 is how little will be accomplished?

-R
Living the American Dream
 
NWA742
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:27 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 18):
If you are going to try and make a point by using one example (which you probably made up), that is pretty lousy debate/argument.

First of all - your opinion only. Sometimes it really only takes one photo to make a point. Second - I haven't seen you producing any evidence against or refuting the photo that Fumanchewd supposedly "made up," at this point.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 18):
"There are terrorists on Mars, its pretty obvious, if you just look through a telescope you can see them on the surface. I don't need a better point than that, it proves everything."



Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 18):
BUT.... if you want to use your standards

 rotfl 

THAT is the best you can come up with, and next to you try to portray it to a standard of mine? Damn Tbar, even you can do better than that.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 18):
I can make some pretty damn solid arguments based on trivial, minor stuff

Hate to break it to you Tbar, but he's got a stronger argument than you at this point. He's got photographic evidence of which you've yet to disprove, and all you have so far is your own opinion that his point is based on "trivial, minor stuff."




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:07 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 21):
I just read in the online edition of the "Bild" that one guy who trew stones already got a 10 months jail sentence. Pretty over the top IMO considering the guy is not previously convicted.

Patrick

Strafgesetzbuch (German penal code)
� 224
Gef�hrliche K�rperverletzung (dangerous bodily injury)

(1) Wer die K�rperverletzung

1. durch Beibringung von Gift oder anderen gesundheitssch�dlichen Stoffen,
2. mittels einer Waffe oder eines anderen gef�hrlichen Werkzeugs,
3. mittels eines hinterlistigen �berfalls,
4. mit einem anderen Beteiligten gemeinschaftlich oder
5. mittels einer das Leben gef�hrdenden Behandlung

begeht, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe von sechs Monaten bis zu zehn Jahren, in minder schweren F�llen mit Freiheitsstrafe von drei Monaten bis zu f�nf Jahren bestraft.
Translation:

Who injures another person using
1. a poison or other hazardous substances
2. a weapon or another dangerous tool
3. through a cowardly attack
4. together with other persons
5. with a dangerous medical treatment

will be punished with imprisonment between 6 months and 10 years, in less grave cases with imprisonment betwenn 3 months and 5 years.

(2) Der Versuch ist strafbar.

the attempt is punishable.


� 125
Landfriedensbruch (Disturbance of public peace)

(1) Wer sich an

1. Gewaltt�tigkeiten gegen Menschen oder Sachen oder
2. Bedrohungen von Menschen mit einer Gewaltt�tigkeit,

die aus einer Menschenmenge in einer die �ffentliche Sicherheit gef�hrdenden Weise mit vereinten Kr�ften begangen werden, als T�ter oder Teilnehmer beteiligt oder wer auf die Menschenmenge einwirkt, um ihre Bereitschaft zu solchen Handlungen zu f�rdern, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu drei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft, wenn die Tat nicht in anderen Vorschriften mit schwererer Strafe bedroht ist.

Translation:

(1) who participates in
1. Acts of violence against persons and goods
2. threats against persons with a threatened act of violence

which will be carried out of by an assembly of persons in a way which disturbs the public security, either in an active or passive way, or who incites an assembly of persons to carry out such acts, will be punished by imprisonment up to 3 years or with a fine, if the act is not being punished in accordance with another regulation with a heavier punishment.

(2) Soweit die in Absatz 1 Nr. 1, 2 bezeichneten Handlungen in � 113 mit Strafe bedroht sind, gilt � 113 Abs. 3, 4 sinngem��.

If the acts which have been described in paragraph 1 No. 1, 2 are being covered with punishment by � 113, a�113 Paragraph 3,4 will be used.


� 113
Widerstand gegen Vollstreckungsbeamte (Resistance against law enforcement officers)

(1) Wer einem Amtstr�ger oder Soldaten der Bundeswehr, der zur Vollstreckung von Gesetzen, Rechtsverordnungen, Urteilen, Gerichtsbeschl�ssen oder Verf�gungen berufen ist, bei der Vornahme einer solchen Diensthandlung mit Gewalt oder durch Drohung mit Gewalt Widerstand leistet oder ihn dabei t�tlich angreift, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe bis zu zwei Jahren oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft.

(1) Who resists a peace officer or a soldier of the Bundeswehr, who's duty it is to enforce laws, official regulations, court verdicts and court decisions, while he is carrying out his duty with the use of violence or the threat of such or assaults such a law enforcement officer, will be punished with imprisonment of up to 2 years or a fine.

(2) In besonders schweren F�llen ist die Strafe Freiheitsstrafe von sechs Monaten bis zu f�nf Jahren. Ein besonders schwerer Fall liegt in der Regel vor, wenn

1. der T�ter oder ein anderer Beteiligter eine Waffe bei sich f�hrt, um diese bei der Tat zu verwenden, oder
2. der T�ter durch eine Gewaltt�tigkeit den Angegriffenen in die Gefahr des Todes oder einer schweren Gesundheitssch�digung bringt.

(2) In especially serious cases punishment will be imprisonment between 6 months and 5 years. An especially serious case is given if
1. the perpetrator or another involved person carries a weapon to use it in the act, or
2. the perpetrator endangers life or health of the attacked through an act of violence.

(3) Die Tat ist nicht nach dieser Vorschrift strafbar, wenn die Diensthandlung nicht rechtm��ig ist. Dies gilt auch dann, wenn der T�ter irrig annimmt, die Diensthandlung sei rechtm��ig.

(3) The act is not punishable if the law enforcement officer acts outside law. This also applies iif the law enforcement officer erronously assumes to act in accordance with law.

(4) Nimmt der T�ter bei Begehung der Tat irrig an, die Diensthandlung sei nicht rechtm��ig, und konnte er den Irrtum vermeiden, so kann das Gericht die Strafe nach seinem Ermessen mildern (� 49 Abs. 2) oder bei geringer Schuld von einer Bestrafung nach dieser Vorschrift absehen. Konnte der T�ter den Irrtum nicht vermeiden und war ihm nach den ihm bekannten Umst�nden auch nicht zuzumuten, sich mit Rechtsbehelfen gegen die vermeintlich rechtswidrige Diensthandlung zu wehren, so ist die Tat nicht nach dieser Vorschrift strafbar; war ihm dies zuzumuten, so kann das Gericht die Strafe nach seinem Ermessen mildern (� 49 Abs. 2) oder von einer Bestrafung nach dieser Vorschrift absehen.
(4) If the perpetrator erronously assumes that the enforcement act was illegal, and could he avoid the error, the court of law is allowed to reduce the punishment (49 Para .2) or in case of minor guilt waive a punishment. If the perpetrator could not avoid the error and was it impossible for him due to the circumstances to protest against the law enforcement act by using an injunction, then his resistance is not punishable in accordance with this regulation.
Was it acceptable for the perpetrator to protest against the law enforcement act through a court of law, the court of law is free to use it's own discretion to reduce the punishment or to waive a punishment.


Roughly translated, I'm not a lawyer.

The guy who threw the rocks has broken at least thse three laws. Theoretically he could end up in prison for several years.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
fumanchewd
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:23 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 13):
Where are you making this assumption? From some pictures that you found on the internet? Come now, there's got to be a better way to make your point.

Well my point was that it is virtually impossible to live a life free from the products of globalization. These protestors have both consumed and idolize various goods and services that were made possible by globalization.

The majority of the protestors are younger and no doubt have multinational cell-phones, computers with componenets from Asia, the US, and Europe, Nike shoes and hats, baseball hats and hoodies (where did those start?), underwear made in China, etc, etc.

Do you honestly believe that is an assumption? It is a fact.

The point is that these people are protesting a system which they are intimately involved with. See the guy with the baseball hat? How about the Nike hoodie?

And no, I didn't make up the photo. That's just the modern day style of youth. They wear and consume globalization with pride and bitch because about it because someone told them to.
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NoUFO
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:07 am

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 28):
The majority of the protestors are younger and no doubt have multinational cell-phones, computers with componenets from Asia, the US, and Europe, Nike shoes and hats, baseball hats and hoodies (where did those start?), underwear made in China, etc, etc.

Yes, still there's a good reason to remind representatives of the G8 of their promises given to poorer nations. Notice, I avoid the term "to protest". I don't oppose globalisation, but I do oppose some methods a number of multinational enterprises use to maximise profit.
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Sabena332
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:24 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 22):
Ten months without parole for attempting to severely injure (or even kill) people - in multiple cases.

According to the "Bild" they only saw him throwing stones into the direction of police officers, he didn't hit them so I think that 10 months is way over the top because he didn't hurt anyone. Ok, I know that the try to hurt someone is already illegal but the sentence is IMO still over the top, they just needed someone to scare other guys like him.

But nothing new actually, cops and other law enforcement guys like put out the big hammer when there are situations like that, be it a demo or a football game. A few friends and me got beaten up after a football game some years ago because the cops thought that 5 teens wanted to start a fight with approx. 30 cops.  Yeah sure We were completely at the end when they were done with us but we still managed to shout: "Grün-weisser Partybus... schaaalalalala" when they drove us to the police station.  rotfl 

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 27):
The guy who threw the rocks has broken at least thse three laws.

I would say he violated only two of them, "gefährliche Körperverletzung" is not among them in my book (when you can believe the Bild article).

Anyway, I am not a lawyer so don't take my post too serious, it is just my opinion.

Patrick
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NoUFO
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:15 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 30):
I would say he violated only two of them, "gefährliche Körperverletzung" is not among them in my book

Did you read the line where it states that the attempt is punishable in your book?
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Sabena332
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:20 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 31):
Did you read the line where it states that the attempt is punishable in your book?



Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 30):
Ok, I know that the try to hurt someone is already illegal

P.
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fumanchewd
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:33 am

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 29):
Yes, still there's a good reason to remind representatives of the G8 of their promises given to poorer nations. Notice, I avoid the term "to protest". I don't oppose globalisation, but I do oppose some methods a number of multinational enterprises use to maximise profit.

I agree. However there already is substantial aid given to a great number of African, Asian nations, Indonesia, etc.

Not to open a new polemic, but one could also say that throwing money at unstable nations without establishing an infrastructure contributes to their instability. After all, purchasing food, housing and computers for a nation that's been in violent civil war for 15 years with no sustainable crop isn't going to be very fruitful in the long run. I agree that something needs to be done, but protesting the economic policies of those who actually have historically been giving great amounts of aid in the first place, is counterproductive.

But of course most of the protesters are screaming against "corporations" and globalization and not for the African nations to stabilize themselves so that the economic aid will be productive. Its easier to bash those who are doing well than those who aren't.

[Edited 2007-06-06 02:34:42]
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tbar220
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:02 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 25):

Capitalism is the result of a free market - which involves freedom from government intrusion, much like freedom from the government intruding on people's rights to protest.

Freedom of government intrusion as part of capitalism doesn't equate to human rights and freedom to protest. There may be a correlation between capitalist markets and freedom to protest, but it isn't the capitalist style economy which leads to freedom of protest.

Lets look at a few examples. We may have a capitalist style of economy in this country, but it is the constitution/bill of rights that allows us to protest. The result as I see it is "We have a right to protest (A) because its in our bill of rights (B), not because of capitalism (C)." A because of B, not because of C.

Take Russia, which is supposedly a democracy, but definitely takes part in the capitalist style, global economy. They have very, very limited rights of protest (if any). The result as I see it is "We have no right to protest (A) because of a strict government (B), despite a capitalistic style economy (C)." A because of B, despite C.

Even a place like China, which is thriving now because it has such a capitalistic style of economy. And yet we all know their rights to protest. Again, "We have no right to protest (A) because of our oppressive government (B), despite a capitalistic style economy (C)." A because of B, despite C.

Ultimately, the only point I'm trying to make is that capitalism does not make automatic the assumption that a people have the right to protest. Especially in this decade, with human rights eroding as the "war on terror" continues (read:

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 28):


Do you honestly believe that is an assumption? It is a fact.

I'm not going after or attacking you, I'm going after your argument and the way you're making it. I don't think its valid to take a picture from who knows where (I tried to find the source, I couldn't find what the website was or who created this image) and pass it off as a valid argument to the point your making. The onus is on you to prove the point your making, that (if I'm understanding it correctly) "the protestors take part in the global economy, making them hypocrites." You follow that with a statement that "they are just protesting because they have nothing better to do". How are you coming to these conclusions? From a picture of fifteen protestors wearing "multinational" clothes? (I see one Nike shirt)

So if you're going to go after these protestors, go after them because they hurt police at the summit, but don't try and pass off your opinions as "fact" in an attempt to belittle however they stand on globalization, which none of us ultimately know.
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fumanchewd
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:16 am

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 34):
So if you're going to go after these protestors, go after them because they hurt police at the summit, but don't try and pass off your opinions as "fact" in an attempt to belittle however they stand on globalization, which none of us ultimately know.

It fairly obvious that they are at a protest with the purpose of anti-globilization. My opinion that they have nothing better to do stands from the fact that globilization is ubiquitous in modern society and that they have no viable or pragmatic plan for anything.

They really have nothing better to do. If they want to change the world maybe they should go to Africa and help dig wells rather then living a consumerist lifestyle while dressing the part for a protest every year or so. I still haven't heard what they propose besides unorganized grandoise ambiguous dreams and ambitions. Lets hear them give some solutions to the world's problems instead of socializing and chucking rocks at cops.

Please, post their manifesto or statement and show me the specifics. What do they want?
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tbar220
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:41 am

I should have clarified. I meant that we don't know why they are anti-globalization and where they stand on it. Its clear that they are anti-globalization by their actions.

I will look up statements by this group and others that protest the G-8 and other globalization summits.
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fumanchewd
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:47 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 36):
I meant that we don't know why they are anti-globalization and where they stand on it.

I know. Narcissism.
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Mir
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:46 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 36):
Its clear that they are anti-globalization by their actions.

They're not specifically anti-globalization. They're anti-establishment. They just want to vent some anger against whoever is in power (or percieved to be in power). But for all their talk about how they hate the status quo, many of them are rather hypocritical about it, as has been pointed out. And since they're very loud about what they think, those who actually have valid points to make get drowned out.

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 13):
I don't see the connection between capitalism and freedom to protest.

He did say "free" as well. Not to mention that capitalism itself offers the ability to protest by boycott. Could have been worded better, but his basic premise is sound.

-Mir
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aloges
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:19 pm

This is turning out to be very interesting indeed: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,486974,00.html (in German)

summary:

- about 6000 protesters have managed to get to the security fence, however rioters have mixed with the groups and stockpiled stones
- the protesters are trying to convince the police they're not about to get violent
- they're also trying to convince the rioters to abstain from violence

edit: The article has been updated, the rioters are throwing stones and the police are using tear gas, batons and water cannons; no word on whether the rioters could be separated from the protesters trying to keep the from using violence.

[Edited 2007-06-06 12:47:19]
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allstarflyer
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Wed Jun 06, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 34):
Ultimately, the only point I'm trying to make is that capitalism does not make automatic the assumption that a people have the right to protest.

I understand what you're saying - I was simply trying to make the correlation that capitalism and freedom to protest arise from the same basic freedoms allowed us.

-R
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aloges
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:54 am

once again relaying info from Spiegel Online (all links except the one about the railway in German):

- Several thousand protesters have duped the police present at the summit and reached the security fence, blocked key roads leading to the location at Heiligendamm and blocked the railroad that was supposed to transport journalists from the press centre to the summit. Journalists have been taken to Heiligendamm with navy boats.
- The protests and blockades have been mostly peaceful, with limited use of water cannons and tear gas and (so far unverified) use of batons by the police.
- When asked/told to increase their distance from the fence, protesters obeyed.
- The Autobahn near the airport has been blocked as well.


"no violence" source: http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,886699,00.jpg

see for more photos: http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/0,5538,22174,00.html
and http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/0,5538,22192,00.html
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Bofredrik
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:17 am

I agree with them who protest against US missile defense system in Eastern Europe.
 
pelican
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:07 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 30):
Ok, I know that the try to hurt someone is already illegal but the sentence is IMO still over the top, they just needed someone to scare other guys like him.

But nothing new actually, cops and other law enforcement guys like put out the big hammer when there are situations like that, be it a demo or a football game.

Law enforcement has nothing to do with the judgement.

Quoting NoUFO (Reply 29):
Yes, still there's a good reason to remind representatives of the G8 of their promises given to poorer nations. Notice, I avoid the term "to protest".

I would have agreed until a few weeks. But the more I read articles from African intellectuals who say the West should stop most of the aid the more I'm convinced that development aid is not to the benefit of the recipient.

link (English)
link (German)
link (German)
link (German)

pelican
 
aloges
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:30 am

Quoting Pelican (Reply 43):
I'm convinced that development aid is not to the benefit of the recipient.

I haven't got the time to read your links, but am I correct in assuming that it's because most of that aid never actually arrives at its intended recipients; i.e. deviation and corruption?
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aloges
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:02 pm

OK... http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,487210,00.html

Two Greenpeace dinghies have entered the prohibited sea area near the convention centre and been stopped by the police after activists were able to unveil a banner reading "G8 Act Now". The TV station (N24) I happened to zap to just before lunch had a GP representative who was on the beach near Heiligendamm on the phone and the deputy chairman of the German Police Union (DPolG, not GdP) in the studio. The TV footage was nothing short of spectacular, but there were no signs of unnecessary violence, meaning that stopping a dinghy at full speed has to involve some violence, from either the GP activists or the police.

What surprised me most was that the union representative said the police could very well live with this kind of protest, that their task was not only to protect the summit but also the protesters within limits and that he agreed with the GP representative's hopes for protection of the climate agreed upon at the summit. GP say two activists were injured (as per SWR3 radio news).


Greenpeace and police boat source: http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,888230,00.jpg

[Edited 2007-06-07 12:11:54]
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gunsontheroof
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:09 pm

Solidarity with the protestors fighting against concentrations of wealth and power. Wish I was there.
 
PanHAM
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:32 pm

The German Supreme Court has upheld a lower court ruling that protest direct at the fence are not allowed.

Still, severall thousand protestors did reach the fence. One can argue about such a behaviour in a democratic state, in my opinion the Surpeme Court ruling should be obeyed by true democrats. These clowns prefer to trample through a wheatfield and leave the farmer with the damages. Nice and selfish "democrats". .Still, police does not interfere unless the protests become violent. Just going to the fence is a misdemeanor and police can act by own judgement.

Regarding these Green"peace" morons whose intention it actually was to reach the beach and present a "protest" note to the G8 leaders, they can be glad police stopped them before they got shot by the secret service.

This whole protest is a childish behaviour by people who seem to have too much time amnd I bet 90% would fail if asked to point out 3 African capitals on the map.

.
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deltadc9
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RE: G-8 Protesters Clash With German Police

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:22 pm

Quoting Tbar220 (Reply 34):
Especially in this decade, with human rights eroding as the "war on terror" continues

Examples please? Can you name one thing that has been taken away from you?
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