bezoar
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How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:36 am

Our backgrounds and present situations are quite diverse. However, the fact that each of us are contributing our comments on the internet places us all in a rather privileged position. I hope we all appreciate that fact.

I presume that within most, if not all, societies there's been a redistribution of wealth from those who have to those don't to greater or lesser degrees. I live in a society that mostly rewards productivity and faithfulness, but is increasingly burdened by those on welfare.

I will say that I think that what bothers us so much about money is not the degree of wealth, but a matter of perceived greed.

Rather than front-loading this with too many of my own comments, I'll throw out these questions:

- Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others? If so, should there be a limit to one's wealth?

- Should it be mandatory that the wealthy give to the poor? If so, how much wealth may one retain for themselves? Are there restrictions on what one can do with their wealth?
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
MCOflyer
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:39 am

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):

- Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others? If so, should there be a limit to one's wealth?

No.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Should it be mandatory that the wealthy give to the poor? If so, how much wealth may one retain for themselves? Are there restrictions on what one can do with their wealth?

No, everyone makes there life what they want.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
UnknownUser
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:41 am

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
- Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others? If so, should there be a limit to one's wealth?

- Should it be mandatory that the wealthy give to the poor? If so, how much wealth may one retain for themselves? Are there restrictions on what one can do with their wealth?

I believe we call that communism... and fuck no, if I work hard and build an empire, some bum is not getting a piece of it.
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MD-90
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
- Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others?

Absolutely fair.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
If so, should there be a limit to one's wealth?

No

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
- Should it be mandatory that the wealthy give to the poor?

No. Charity cannot be dictated, otherwise it becomes coercive theft.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
If so, how much wealth may one retain for themselves? Are there restrictions on what one can do with their wealth?

A person may retain as much wealth for himself as he desires. There should be NO restrictions on what a person can do with his wealth.


Freedom and prosperity are founded upon respect for private property rights. This includes respect on the individual level (no stealing, no committing murder [which is disrepecting the ultimate property right, which is your right to your own body], no slavery [again, disrespecting your right to your own body and freedom thereof]) and on the collective level through government. Voting to legalize something does not necessarily make it moral or right.

The income tax, for example, is legalized theft and should be abolished.
 
tz757300
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:03 pm

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 3):

The income tax, for example, is legalized theft and should be abolished.

Eh, to an extent. Its a steal from all, give to all situation. They tax your income, than then what they get back is what they use for your public services. I'm sure if you did away with income tax, your services would not be available since nobody would pay for things other people use, such as roads, infrastructure, etc.
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bezoar
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:06 pm

Quoting UnknownUser (Reply 2):
I believe we call that communism.

I don't think having the wealthy give to the poor is communism. It would be either state-mandated taxation for redistribution programs or through voluntary philanthropy.

Though others can speak more eloquently than I on this, I believe communism in it's ideal state involves everyone essentially sharing all work and wealth equally, and with a minimum of private property.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
halls120
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:37 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
- Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others?

Life isn't fair. Never has been, never will be. There have always been people who are richer than others, and differing degrees of resentment as a result of that inequity. The sad thing is, far too much of that resentment is misdirected.

I'm not bothered that there are people richer than me.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
If so, should there be a limit to one's wealth?

Reasonable taxation on a graduated scale, yes. Confiscatory action by the government to impose hard income caps, no.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
- Should it be mandatory that the wealthy give to the poor?



No. I am much more generous in my donations to charity on account of the fact it is MY choice as to who is the recipients of my charitable gifts.

Look at what Bill Gates is doing with his foundation. Look at what the Rockefellers and Carnegies did in the last century. Private philanthropy is always better than government mandated income redistribution.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
If so, how much wealth may one retain for themselves?



See my answer above about limits to wealth.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Are there restrictions on what one can do with their wealth?

Pretty broad question. What exactly do you mean?

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 5):
I don't think having the wealthy give to the poor is communism. It would be either state-mandated taxation for redistribution programs or through voluntary philanthropy.

You are right. What you support isn't communism. It is outright theft.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:47 pm

Question for the thread starter is:

Why should someone who has taken risk, learned to live lean, discovered new opportunities and has become financially efficient live like the dumbarse who goes out and spends every last penny on the newest toy and therefor has no money?

I earned my money, mature up and learn how to keep yours. (im not directing that statement to the thread starter, just observations of what many people do)
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ual777
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:52 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):

- Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others? If so, should there be a limit to one's wealth?

Not if it is obtained morally and lawfully.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):

- Should it be mandatory that the wealthy give to the poor? If so, how much wealth may one retain for themselves? Are there restrictions on what one can do with their wealth?

If you EARN your money, it should be yours. I personally think that the amount of taxation at its current levels in the US is obscene!

Unemployment is at 3%. Get a job!
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STT757
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:58 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
should there be a limit to one's wealth?

I feel there should no limit to one's wealth, however there also should be no ceiling for how much taxes one pays. The more you make the more you should pay.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
bezoar
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 6):
Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):Are there restrictions on what one can do with their wealth?
Pretty broad question. What exactly do you mean?

In the thread about the 60-story 'house' in India some were critical about such wealth and how it was spent. I am curious upon what grounds we would base such criticism. I thought it was something that could be discussed in a bit more depth.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 6):
What you support isn't communism.

I'm not sure that I've expressed my opinion quite yet, at least not intentionally. I do live in a capitalistic society, though, and live my life accordingly.

I'm not sure a communistic society would inspire me to any greatness in any way whatsoever.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:05 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 9):
make the more you should pay.

Bull, that was tried and failed (see UK earlier this century).
Again, why should we all live in poverty or at the same level as someone who is financially irresponsible?
It is hard to become rich, it takes risk. It takes maturity. Most people who are considered rich, worked their way to become rich, not just in the amount they make, but in their lives early on.
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tz757300
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:09 pm

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 11):

Again, why should we all live in poverty or at the same level as someone who is financially irresponsible?

I agree

I can almost guess that you aren't in favor of the Welfare system here?
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NWADC9
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
- Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others? If so, should there be a limit to one's wealth?

Yes, it is absolutely fair. Everyone has equal opportunities to get off their butt and get a job. If teens can bag groceries or wait tables, anyone can. A limit to one's wealth? "Oh, go out and succeed in life, but don't succeed too much!" That's crazy talk! I earned it, I keep it.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
- Should it be mandatory that the wealthy give to the poor? If so, how much wealth may one retain for themselves? Are there restrictions on what one can do with their wealth?

NO, NO, NO, and RE-NO! If the rich want to give to the poor, great. If they don't, all power to them. The Robin Hood Theory is completely backward and created with no logic. So, you basically steal money from the wealthy (since you don't have their permission) and give it to the poor, who will see it as free money, and think, "Hey, I don't have to work!". Then the rich will start thinking the same, and you end up with less and less money to the point of collapse.
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RichPhitzwell
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:18 pm

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 12):
I can almost guess that you aren't in favor of the Welfare system here

Actually I am. I do believe that some people need help. I do believe that some people have no way out and for those I will gladly support.

I will not support those that make $5 more then all their bills combined who go out and purchase a $15 DVD or a $200 phone or not invest properly or take the time to learn different tax breaks.

I have seen people who make well over $200,000/yr who have no money and debt up to their eyeballs. Maybe we should redistribute my wealth to those people too since technically they are poor.
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bezoar
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:19 pm

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 7):
Question for the thread starter is:

Why should someone who has taken risk, learned to live lean, discovered new opportunities and has become financially efficient live like the dumbarse who goes out and spends every last penny on the newest toy and therefor has no money?

John Wesley, the man who's ministry resulted in the Methodist branch of Christianity, said (not exactly verbatim): Earn all you can. Save all you can. Give all you can.

I think these were wise words. I believe any wealth we have is a blessing, whether it is by hard work or by 'luck.' I believe we were made to work, and that we should be rewarded accordingly. I also think we are supposed to be good stewards of whatever we have.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
GSM763
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:24 pm

And redistribution isnt earning. Just thought Id pop that in there.
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:27 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 15):
John Wesley, the man who's ministry resulted in the Methodist branch of Christianity, said (not exactly verbatim): Earn all you can. Save all you can. Give all you can.

Being I'm agnostic, you lost me completely. Just kidding

I agree, but the problem with redistribution above what is taken in taxes(or paying far greater taxes) is we cant "save all you can". If we cant save all we can then tomorrow I will need your money and I have just become a burden on society.

Anyways, I made my point...I am interested in other perspectives.
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bezoar
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:38 pm

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 17):
what is taken in taxes

I can understand the need for a society to have infrastructure (highways, police and various emergency responders, a defense system, etc, and that there must be a way to pay for those things. How much is enough is an ongoing debate.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
tz757300
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 18):
How much is enough is an ongoing debate.

Enough to provide adequate protection and service. No more, no less. If you need more protection or service, raise taxes a bit. Need less, lower them a bit.
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NWA742
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:41 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others?

Life is not fair.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Should it be mandatory that the wealthy give to the poor?

No. That's communism, and it doesn't work.




-NWA742
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GSM763
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:55 pm

OK Ill step out here and say this.

I think its too bad communism doesnt work.

I think its too bad the only economic system that really works is based on greed and one trying to put himself above everyone else. I know why communism doesnt work, and I know why capitalism does work, and I support what works because its feasible and Im more of a realist than an idealist, but I wish communism worked.

So how would I be described? As a communist because I wish that worked or a capitalist because I know that works but dont like it?
 
AC773
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:06 pm

I'm not in favor of communism, nor am I in favor of a cowboy philosophy of "what's mine is mine." What I am in favor of (though I know it'll never fly in the US) is a socialist system - tax the people more, but give them more in the form of social programs and institutions that protect and serve the public good. Universal healthcare is a good example of this, and anecdotally, it happens to appeal to the fiscal conservatives in the room as well - giving basic preventitive medical care to those that can't afford it is a hell of a lot less expensive than the current system of only covering ER visits.

Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 13):
The Robin Hood Theory is completely backward and created with no logic.

And I suppose trickle-down economics are sound and proven effective?
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bagoldex
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:29 pm

Under no circumstance should the wealthy be forced to subsidize the lives of the genetic, intellectual and economic underclasses. These people are after all a tremendous burden to our society and through evolutionary courses, their shortcomings may be eliminated, or more optimistically thinking, rectified. Redistributive measures do nothing except perpetuate the most grave societal flaws which have proven to be a gunshot to the foot for many great societies. In regards to charity, though it should not be compulsory, I strongly support it and have made charity one of my principal financial concerns. When it comes to the government sticking their wretched, polluted fingers into my pockets, I am vehemently opposed to whatever they want to do with my money.
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:02 pm

I do think the basic problem lies with this question:

How does a society encourage individual business to increase the wages of the population to the point that the individual is not forced to be on welfare?

As stated in other threads:

1. Free trade is wonderfull as long as all parties are playing by the same rules. That is, minimum wage laws, environmental laws, and OSHA laws are met in third world nations.

2. Monopolies can not be allowed. See Walmart

If we upheld Federal minimum standards, the USA would not lose many manufacturing jobs. Walmart one is tricky as they do follow all standards...sorta (see safety, and woman's rights).
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SJCRRPAX
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:07 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
- Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others?



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 6):
I'm not bothered that there are people richer than me.



Quoting UAL777 (Reply 8):
Not if it is obtained morally and lawfully.

Mostly I think that Lawyers, Doctors, and Pilots should be taxed more and Engineers less.  rotfl 
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:18 pm

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 25):
Engineers less.

And Project managers the least of them all. In fact all PM's should be not be taxed at all rather they should receive public funds for what they do. Big grin
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Braybuddy
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:25 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others? If so, should there be a limit to one's wealth?

Yes, to the first part (some are more ambitious and hard-working than others). No, to the second part.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Should it be mandatory that the wealthy give to the poor?

In western democracies this happens through income tax and welfare and I don't see anything wrong with that. A society where nobody pays income tax and nobody receives welfare is a society I don't want to live in, unfair as it may be perceived. While we all moan about income tax, I'm glad I live in a society where the government takes part of it and gives it to the less well-off. Of course there are going to be abuses in such a system, but redistributing wealth is never going to be perfect, and I'm prepared to put-up with those imperfections.

Our income taxes are not punitive, and welfare is pretty generous nowadays, a big change from twenty years ago. While I may bitch about a lot of things in this country, this is one thing it's done right, and I'm completely happy about that.

A modest redistribution of wealth benefits business, which can only be a good thing, and extreme poverty causes unrest, which isn't desirable in any modern society.
 
asuflyer05
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:59 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
- Should it be mandatory that the wealthy give to the poor? If so, how much wealth may one retain for themselves? Are there restrictions on what one can do with their wealth?

No. As much as they want. No. I don't want some fat cat corrupt politican telling me what to do with my money or much he thinks I should earn.

Quoting GSM763 (Reply 21):
I think its too bad the only economic system that really works is based on greed and one trying to put himself above everyone else. I know why communism doesnt work, and I know why capitalism does work, and I support what works because its feasible and Im more of a realist than an idealist, but I wish communism worked.

Why is greed bad? I've never had anyone successfully explain to me what the problem with being greedy is. You say you know why communism doesn't work yet still wish it did, that does not make any sense. Society would progress at a much slower pace if our development was not incentivized.
 
MD-90
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:08 pm

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 4):
I'm sure if you did away with income tax, your services would not be available since nobody would pay for things other people use, such as roads, infrastructure, etc.

Hogwash. Private enterprise is more efficient at providing "services" than government ever could be. The "free rider" argument is persuasive on the surface, but it has been shown to be a fallacy.

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 5):
I don't think having the wealthy give to the poor is communism. It would be either state-mandated taxation for redistribution programs or through voluntary philanthropy.

Your two options that you've described are so completely different from each other that it's hard to compare the two. State-mandated taxation for redistribution is immoral theft. It is wrong, and it will never be right. It is the perfect example of how the State is nothing but raw, brute force and some pretty window dressing to make it look nice. Voluntary philanthropy (I prefer to call it by the traditional Biblical term, charity) is the highest expression of love, according to the Apostle Paul. It is so far removed from redistribution as to be something completely different.

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 12):
I can almost guess that you aren't in favor of the Welfare system here?

Subsidizing immoral behavior and creating incentives for more immoral behavior to occur is itself immoral and wrong.

Quoting GSM763 (Reply 21):
I think its too bad the only economic system that really works is based on greed and one trying to put himself above everyone else.

You're describing a moral standpoint that is only tangental to capitalism...that's not a description of capitalism.

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 24):
1. Free trade is wonderfull as long as all parties are playing by the same rules. That is, minimum wage laws, environmental laws, and OSHA laws are met in third world nations.

Or be free and eliminate the minimum wage, environmental laws, and OSHA.

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 24):
2. Monopolies can not be allowed. See Walmart

What? Wal-Mart has done more to raise Americans' standard of living than anything any of our governments has ever done. All government can do is confiscate and destroy prosperity. Nothing politicians give away was earned or created, it was taken from productive people and productive businesses like Wal-Mart.
 
andessmf
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:28 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others?

Yes

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
If so, should there be a limit to one's wealth?

No

Because the definition of what 'wealthy' is can change, and while I don't consider ourselves wealthy, others certainly can and do call me so at my workplace. Don't want that virus to spread.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Should it be mandatory that the wealthy give to the poor?

No

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
If so, how much wealth may one retain for themselves?

Whatever is yours is yours to do as you please. Don't accept others putting restrictions on what you can do with your wealth. It can end up harming others.

IIRC, when Clinton set up the 'luxury tax' on yatchs, it ended up basically killing that industry in the US, as the wealthy could go to other countries to get a yatch built. So this restriction ended hurting the middle class as opposed to taxing the 'rich'.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Are there restrictions on what one can do with their wealth?

Life already has restrictions, but the least amount is the best. And by punishing the wealthy, who usually got there by continuing hard work, you are rewarding some who choose not to work as hard.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 6):
Life isn't fair. Never has been, never will be. There have always been people who are richer than others, and differing degrees of resentment as a result of that inequity. The sad thing is, far too much of that resentment is misdirected.

I'm not bothered that there are people richer than me.

Can't say much more than that. But I will add this:

I know wealth, as both our parents are now very wealthy. But in life, everything comes with a price. I may work just as hard as my wealthy parents, but I know the level of stress that having and making that money brings. And right now we have chosen family over wealth.
 
bezoar
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:27 pm

Quoting SJCRRPAX (Reply 25):
Mostly I think that Lawyers, Doctors, and Pilots should be taxed more and Engineers less.  

That's rather thoughtful of you!  Smile

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 28):
Why is greed bad?

Greed leads people to take for themselves what belongs to others, and to put material things before people.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 29):
State-mandated taxation for redistribution is immoral theft.

In the United States we have Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, Vocational Rehabilitation, and a host of other programs that are funded by taxes, all of which are costly just from an administrative perspective alone. Would you consider these programs to be 'immoral theft?'

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 30):
And right now we have chosen family over wealth.

Some of the happiest people I know have little wealth in other ways, but they have each other.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
Doona
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:43 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
- Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others? If so, should there be a limit to one's wealth?



Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):

- Should it be mandatory that the wealthy give to the poor? If so, how much wealth may one retain for themselves? Are there restrictions on what one can do with their wealth?

I agree with John Rawls idea, that while income disparity is nothing to be ashamed of, and is a natural part of society, societies should still work to prevent inequality from growing. We will always attach more value to certain jobs, and so some people will earn more money. Good for them, I want to be rich too. Still, Rawls states that first basic principle of a society should be that the inequality in society should bring some form of benefit to those worse off, and with this he means some form of resource distribution, like welfare, I guess. Rawls also states that the inequalities should only be allowed to exist in positions accessible to everyone, which sounds reasonable to me, and which is usually the case in the developed world.

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
halls120
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:03 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 15):
John Wesley, the man who's ministry resulted in the Methodist branch of Christianity, said (not exactly verbatim): Earn all you can. Save all you can. Give all you can

I agree. Just note that John Wesley didn't say it was up to the church or the government to decide how much one should give.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
deltadc9
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 9:48 pm

Quoting RichPhitzwell (Reply 24):
2. Monopolies can not be allowed. See Walmart

Wal-mart is not a monopoly, not even close. You cannot be a monopoly with several competitors.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
- Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others?

Fairness ends with gradeschool.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
If so, should there be a limit to one's wealth?

There is a limit, it is that individuals work ethic, common sense, talent, education, and abilities.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Should it be mandatory that the wealthy give to the poor?

Why should it be? The wealthy already give massive amounts of money to the poor, sick, and needy, and the tax system rewards them for it.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
If so, how much wealth may one retain for themselves?

In a free country, as much as you decide.

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
Are there restrictions on what one can do with their wealth?

Only in a facist or socialist state, which seems to be what you covet.

It seems to me that the thoufht process that led to these qwuestions was influenced by envy, and envy is not a healthy thing to be in the grips of.
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bezoar
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:06 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 34):
Only in a facist or socialist state, which seems to be what you covet.

It seems to me that the thoufht process that led to these qwuestions was influenced by envy, and envy is not a healthy thing to be in the grips of.

Wow. You are making a rather large leap here. Just so know, you are dead wrong. I'd be curious as to what thought process you arrived at your conclusion.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:22 pm

Only in a facist or socialist state, which seems to be what you covet.

It seems to me that the thoufht process that led to these qwuestions was influenced by envy, and envy is not a healthy thing to be in the grips of.


What makes you think he covets a fascist state? People need to calm down, he just asked a simple question yet some here must be clairvoyant because they clame to know what he is thinking. Also, the use of spellchecker is free on this site.
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deltadc9
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:22 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 35):
I'd be curious as to what thought process you arrived at your conclusion.

I did say "seem".

You may very well have just posed an intelectual query, but in the case of polotices, religion, and sexual matters, there is usually an agenda.

If not, I apologise.

I maintain that usually, when someone suggests the 'rich' have too much money and should be told what to do with it, envy is involved.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
deltadc9
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:23 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 36):
Also, the use of spellchecker is free on this site.

And the use of smartassed remarks is optional, point?
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
RichPhitzwell
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 10:50 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 34):
Wal-mart is not a monopoly

So a company comes in with plenty of competition, soon after there is little or no competition...how does that not look like a monopoly?
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HAWK21M
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:23 pm

Personally.I'd be happy if I can make ends meet,Three meals a day & money for Emergencies.
regds
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Doona
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 38):
And the use of smartassed remarks is optional, point?

Not really, have you not seen any previous threads? Smartassed remarks are mandatory.  duck 

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halls120
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 37):
I maintain that usually, when someone suggests the 'rich' have too much money and should be told what to do with it, envy is involved.

 checkmark 
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
bezoar
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 37):
I apologise.

No problem. I am usually careful with my words as I have this ongoing paranoia about how folks take them.

I should apologize as well. Perhaps I asked a loaded question, even if I did so as a 'devil's advocate.' However, I intentionally did NOT speak to my own opinions in starting the thread so as to generate more discussion about the issues than my own position. I am interested in hearing what others have to say.

I'm sure that we all have heard people say that they thought didn't deserve to earn so much money, such as an athlete, entertainer, CEO, physician, attorney, software mogul, or whomever. I confess I've thought the same thing myself at times. After all, "how much does one need?"

We sense a maldistribution of wealth as some folks starve while others have the wealth of small nations. As a family physician I'll work fairly hard all day for the same amount of money as an ophthalmologist can make in 10 minutes. Yet, I make in a hour what our receptionist makes in a 12-hour day. And the receptionist makes more in a day than some folks in 'third world' countries make in a several months while working harder than any of us.

Life might not be fair, but society sometimes tries to make it less unfair. There are many in the world who don't have opportunities the rest of us have, and I think most of us have common decency to want to help the less fortunate, whether our motivations are faith-based or not.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
halls120
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:49 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 43):
Perhaps I asked a loaded question

Perhaps????  rotfl  You're kidding, right? It was one of the most obviously loaded threads in recent Anet memory.

Quoting Bezoar (Reply 43):
We sense a maldistribution of wealth as some folks starve while others have the wealth of small nations. As a family physician I'll work fairly hard all day for the same amount of money as an ophthalmologist can make in 10 minutes. Yet, I make in a hour what our receptionist makes in a 12-hour day. And the receptionist makes more in a day than some folks in 'third world' countries make in a several months while working harder than any of us

I suspect you chose to be a family physician instead of a more lucrative specialty. Just like I chose to stay in the public sector instead of going into private practice. That is a decision I consciously made, and one that I do not regret for one minute. I also don't envy the extra income my K street colleagues make, and you evidently resent what your specialist friends do.

So what do you propose? Hard caps on income? Mandatory redistribution of wealth by the government from the rich to the poor?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 38):
And the use of smartassed remarks is optional, point?

Point being that people who post should take their time and not just throw something out there unedited and not thought out. If more people would do this there would be less need for apology's, deletions, locked threads, and members getting banned.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
Derico
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting Bezoar (Thread starter):
- Do you think it's fair that some people are more wealthy than others? If so, should there be a limit to one's wealth?

Yes it's fair.

And there should not be a limit on someone's wealth, of course not. However, there should be a limit on someone's poverty.

Regardless of what they have done with their lives (short of criminality), there should be a minimun level of human decency that everyone should have access to no matter if they worked for it or not, for the whole benefit of society, including the wealthiest.

A society that doesn't even try to provide a minimun level of adecaute human existence for everyone is to be pitied.
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AC773
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:59 pm

Private companies cannot be left to their own devices because they're in business to make money. It's not their fault, that's the way they were designed, and I have no problem with that. What I do think we need is moderate regulation to ensure that every employed person in this country has a living wage and an equitable, safe working environment.

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 29):
Hogwash. Private enterprise is more efficient at providing "services" than government ever could be.

Maybe so, but it comes at a cost. A private steel mill, for example, can be a good thing when the economy is up. The problem comes that during a time of economic downturn, they are forced to maintain that efficiency and keep their profits high by raising the price of steel and cutting back their workforce. On the other hand, a public steel mill would be able to run at a loss during that recession, providing plenty of good jobs for their workers and cheap steel to the industries that need it.
Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
 
bezoar
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:20 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 44):
you evidently resent what your specialist friends do

You are right in that I chose my career path. You are wrong in thinking I resent what my fellow colleague-specialists earn. I suppose you must have missed some of my other postings, or perhaps I've not been clear enough in what I've said.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 44):
Perhaps?

I have a dry sense of humor. Still, it's interesting to see how people interpret words here.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
MD-90
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RE: How Much Income? How To Use It?

Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:27 am

Quoting AC773 (Reply 47):
Maybe so, but it comes at a cost. A private steel mill, for example, can be a good thing when the economy is up. The problem comes that during a time of economic downturn, they are forced to maintain that efficiency and keep their profits high by raising the price of steel and cutting back their workforce. On the other hand, a public steel mill would be able to run at a loss during that recession, providing plenty of good jobs for their workers and cheap steel to the industries that need it.

So where does the money to run a public steel mill comes from? In a recession, it means that the government has to accumulate debt. Appearances to the contrary, not even the US can pull it off forever.

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