AeroWesty
Topic Author
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:02 am

Quoting http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/06/05/cia.leak.trial/index.html:

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, was sentenced Tuesday to 30 months in prison for lying to investigators about what he told reporters about CIA operative Valerie Plame, whose name was leaked to the media in 2003.

He also was fined $250,000. Libby was convicted March 6 of four counts in a five-count indictment alleging perjury, obstruction of justice and making false statements to FBI investigators. He plans to appeal the verdict.

He had the choice to tell the truth or lie under oath, and the judge handed his ass to him.
International Homo of Mystery
 
User avatar
mbmbos
Posts: 2581
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:05 am

Today several of the pundits were predicting that Bush would pardon him but only toward the end of his term. That would mean he might be spending the next year and a half in the big house. Don't know whether he'll be able to stay out of jail during the appeal process.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:06 am

As I said in the other thread:
The jail sentence will increase pressure on President Bush to pardon Libby, especially if he is denied bail (in which case he will be heading to jail in a matter of weeks).

I personally think this is a disgrace. It is clear from all of the evidence that has emerged that Libby was not one of the original leakers--that would be Richard Armitage and Karl Rove. So the two people who LEAKED the name of a CIA agent are still free, aren't facing jail time, have not had their careers ruined, and one of them still works in a top position in the White House. That is not justice. Your thoughts?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
stlgph
Posts: 9179
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:07 am

Ah. Such a trend this will start.

Now that maliciously leaking secrets has been outlawed, only outlaws will maliciously leak secrets while fabricating bogus pretext for wars of paranoid aggression.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 3):
Now that maliciously leaking secrets has been outlawed

Again, it is clear from the court proceedings and from everything that came out that Libby was the person who leaked Valerie Plame's name. That would be Richard Armitage and Karl Rove. Why aren't they on trial?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
AeroWesty
Topic Author
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 2):
I personally think this is a disgrace. It is clear from all of the evidence that has emerged that Libby was not one of the original leakers

The disgrace is that he lied to federal investigators. That's all he was tried for.
International Homo of Mystery
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 1):
Today several of the pundits were predicting that Bush would pardon him but only toward the end of his term. That would mean he might be spending the next year and a half in the big house.

 thumbsdown  Not that there's much that looks good for GWB right now, but this would make his image worse.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 2):
It is clear from all of the evidence that has emerged that Libby was not one of the original leakers--that would be Richard Armitage and Karl Rove. So the two people who LEAKED the name of a CIA agent are still free, aren't facing jail time, have not had their careers ruined, and one of them still works in a top position in the White House. That is not justice.

 checkmark  Like Westy said, Libby has his faults in this. I wonder, though, what would happen if somehow Rove went to prison - and the President didn't pardon him (wouldn't happen, but still, nice to contemplate).  scratchchin  It wouldn't do much of anything, except give Bush one last prop on his way out the door.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 2):
I personally think this is a disgrace. It is clear from all of the evidence that has emerged that Libby was not one of the original leakers--that would be Richard Armitage and Karl Rove. So the two people who LEAKED the name of a CIA agent are still free, aren't facing jail time, have not had their careers ruined, and one of them still works in a top position in the White House. That is not justice. Your thoughts?

Are you sitting down RJ?

I agree, at the very least the original leakers should have been in the dock before Libby. Although are you sure that Arimitage and Rove were the prime leakers?
 
AeroWesty
Topic Author
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 7):
I agree, at the very least the original leakers should have been in the dock before Libby. Although are you sure that Arimitage and Rove were the prime leakers?

Armitage admitted he leaked Plame's name last September. The only reason I can offer for why he's not on trial is because of the musical chairs the White House has been playing over the U.S. attorneys.
International Homo of Mystery
 
stlgph
Posts: 9179
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
The disgrace is that he lied to federal investigators. That's all he was tried for.

looks like Dont Ask Dont Tell Policy may soon receive a major overhaul.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:59 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 3):
Now that maliciously leaking secrets has been outlawed

Um, that's not why he is going to jail. As Westy noted, and a careful read shows, Libby did not leak the name. He was convicted of perjury.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
Armitage admitted he leaked Plame's name last September.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:06 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
Armitage admitted he leaked Plame's name last September. The only reason I can offer for why he's not on trial is because of the musical chairs the White House has been playing over the U.S. attorneys.

Ah yes, but did Richard wake up one morning and think to himself, "Aha, I must leak a CIA agent's name today" or was he told to do it? That is why I used the term "prime" although I have to confess I have no idea how complex the story really was, just more complex than RA feeling like a leak as they say!
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:26 am

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald wanted to put Libby in prison for up to three years because the investigation he was convicted of obstructing—the leak of a CIA operative's identity—was so serious.

So now the Judge is ruling on whether the prosecutor had enough to try someone on a case never brought before him? And comparing this to a murder investigation?

But if it was so serious, why was Richard Armitage (the real leaker) never charged? He was never even subpeonaed, either by the Libby court or by the Congress during their Plame hearings.

According to the law, Plame's identity was only classified until 2002 (for 5 years after her last foreign trip undercover was in 1997), and the leaks happened in 2003.

Something stinks inside the Beltway...

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8PIN78O0&show_article=1
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
stlgph
Posts: 9179
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:35 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 11):

if i add the line "support executive branch carte blanche" will that help you understand the tongue in cheekness a little bit more?
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:48 am

take a look at some of the letters sent to the judge.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/politics/4863456.html

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0605071libby1.html

Letters sent by Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Henry Kissinger, John R. Bolton..

[Edited 2007-06-05 20:51:49]
Step into my office, baby
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 4):
Why aren't they on trial?

Give it time... for all we know, this coul dbe a stepping stone.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 4):
Why aren't they on trial?

Because per the referenced letter from the prosecutor dated January 6, 2006, there has not been a determination whether the leaking of her name was a crime. The only issue discussed and what he was convicted of was perjury.

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/plame/files/show_case_doc-2.pdf

See top of page #8.
 
User avatar
mbmbos
Posts: 2581
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:06 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 12):
According to the law, Plame's identity was only classified until 2002 (for 5 years after her last foreign trip undercover was in 1997), and the leaks happened in 2003.

This is a big fat lie that has been propagated by the right wing noise machine. Last Tuesday, May 29, NBC news and other media outlets reported, again, that according to CIA employment records Valerie Plame was covert all the way up to July 2003 when she was publicly outed.
"If I don't manage to fly, someone else will. The spirit wants only for there to be flying. As for who happens to do it, in that he has only a passing interest."
- R.M. Rilke
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:26 pm

I took some time earlier tonight to read through many of the letters written to the Court on behalf of Scooter Libby (see Reply 14). After reading them, I am even more convinced that the American people have lost a truly great public servant. Contrary to press reports, he was not a super-partisan political hit man. He was an incredibly intelligent family-man who believed in public service and doing good for his country. In my honest opinion, our country can not afford to lose public servants like him.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
The disgrace is that he lied to federal investigators. That's all he was tried for.

Perhaps. I guess we'll never know what was going through Libby's head. I personally find his story plausible--that he was dealing with thousands of pages of information a day and could not recall specific conversations/events from that long ago. If I was questioned under oath about conversations I had three years ago, I'd probably be convicted of perjury too. And I'm just a college student. Imagine being the Vice President's Chief-of-Staff and National Security Adviser. Libby was dealing with 14 to 16 hour days, and literally endless reports coming into his office. Talking to journalists regularly was part of his job too...So I find it easy to believe that he wouldn't remember a specific conversation he had with a reporter three years ago.

Btw, keep in mind that Libby was Yale-educated and Columbia Law-trained...He was a very successful lawyer for some years. He would not intentionally perjure himself.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 7):
I agree, at the very least the original leakers should have been in the dock before Libby. Although are you sure that Arimitage and Rove were the prime leakers?

From everything I have read, yes. Armitage originally leaked it, and Karl Rove was the second source that confirmed it. When Robert Novak's original column mentioned two high-ranking government officials, it was referring to Armitage and Rove.

The best article I have read summarizing what transpired can be found here:
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/cm...arymagazine.content.Article::10870

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
Armitage admitted he leaked Plame's name last September.

Not only that...Once Armitage realized that he was the source Novak referred to in the column, he told his boss Colin Powell and they immediately contacted the FBI to let them know of the non-intentional leak. Ironically, because the White House vowed not to interfere in the investigation, it did not pry to find out more information when the State Department informed the White House that it had disclosed information regarding the leak to the FBI. Perhaps if it had, the whole "special investigator" witch-hunt would never have occurred.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
The only reason I can offer for why he's not on trial is because of the musical chairs the White House has been playing over the U.S. attorneys.

I don't think that has anything to do with this. All of this transpired many months ago already. What do you think the connection between this and the U.S. attorney scandal is?

Almost as soon as the investigation began, the special prosecutor knew that Armitage was the source of the original leak (unintentionally, but still the original leak) because Armitage had contacted the FBI. I don't know how exactly it came out that Rove was the second source though, but clearly Fitzgerald knew who both the sources were and chose not to charge either of them. And Robert Novak, who chose to write a column outing a CIA agent, has also gotten away with this injustice.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 11):
Ah yes, but did Richard wake up one morning and think to himself, "Aha, I must leak a CIA agent's name today" or was he told to do it?

No. Armitage was very much a straight-shooter in the first Bush administration. Colin Powell and Armitage are best-friends going back many years, and both view international relations in similar ways. When Novak announced that his source was "no partisan gun-slinger," Armitage realized that Novak was referring to him and that was when he contacted the FBI.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 16):
Give it time... for all we know, this coul dbe a stepping stone.

Doubt it. The "special investigation" is over. One would think there would be more of an outcry from the American people that the person who ACTUALLY leaked the name went unpunished.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:43 pm

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 16):
Give it time... for all we know, this coul dbe a stepping stone.

That's the whole point. The prosecution could not convince a grand jury that any actual crime had been committed, apart for Scooter Libby either lying or simply making mistaken statements about something that was agreed to be not a crime?

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 18):
This is a big fat lie that has been propagated by the right wing noise machine. Last Tuesday, May 29, NBC news and other media outlets reported, again, that according to CIA employment records Valerie Plame was covert all the way up to July 2003 when she was publicly outed.

According to Joe Wilson's book, the last time Plame travelled covertly, or assumed an assumed name for cover, was 1997. The security cap on her covertness expires 5 years after that, unless Plame was using active measures to avoid her discovery, which she was not. He was routinly introduced at social finctions by here husband as, "My Wife, the CIA spy."

Anyway the subject is moot. Nobody was ever charged with outing Plame.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:39 pm

Scooter goes to jail and charges against Salim Hamdan dropped. Oh the irony...   Big grin

Send him to Camp Delta. There's soon to be a vacancy.

[Edited 2007-06-06 06:47:44]
Ain't I a stinker?
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:07 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 19):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 11):
Ah yes, but did Richard wake up one morning and think to himself, "Aha, I must leak a CIA agent's name today" or was he told to do it?

No. Armitage was very much a straight-shooter in the first Bush administration. Colin Powell and Armitage are best-friends going back many years, and both view international relations in similar ways.

Was the "No" in response to the "Aha, I must leak today" concept or the "doing what he was told to do" possibility?  Smile

OK Powell and Armitage friends going back for yonks, that I understand. What possessed Armitage, with some of his background in diplomacy, to unbutton so suddenly? Or are you saying he was he leaking all the time? I am puzzled.  Confused

I think I will go away and think about something simple like why they set up a commission to try unlawful combatants, and then failed to classify any of the Gitmo inhabitants as u c's. And what does it mean that Hicks pleaded guilty to a crime he could not have committed, because he was not of the group that is "allowed" to commit this type of crime. All too too much.  no   mad   mad   irked   laughing   mad 
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:47 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 22):
Was the "No" in response to the "Aha, I must leak today" concept or the "doing what he was told to do" possibility?

Both.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 22):
What possessed Armitage, with some of his background in diplomacy, to unbutton so suddenly? Or are you saying he was he leaking all the time? I am puzzled.

As far as I know, it was not intentional. I don't think he knew she was a covert agent, or thought that so many people knew that he assumed Novak would (every reporter in DC seems to have known she was a CIA agent...). Once he saw the article and figured out that he was the source Novak was referring to, he immediately told Powell and they contacted the FBI.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12502
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:01 am

Ms. Palme's life was ruined, she could no longer work at the CIA. While no longer a field agent, she was doing valuable work at the CIA developing and assembling intellegence as to (ironicaly) WMD's. With her probably illegal outing of her as a CIA operative by WH people, some of her valuable contacts in her work were put at risk or no longer usable. That puts the USA, it's soldiers or it's interests outside the USA at greater risk of a WMD attack as well as the development of WMD's by countries like Iran and groups like al Queda.

Is a sentence of 30 months enough for the possible deaths, risks to the USA and so on triggered by Ms. Palme's outing?

Basicaly Libby was given a serious penalty for his lying. Pending an appeal in the next several months, I suspect that he will be free on bail, but he will have no income. I do think his license to practice law should be suspended for years (that was done on Pres. Bill Clinton for his lying). I also hope in an effort to reduce his sentence he rats on the others in the WH as to the Palme outing and they face trial.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 23):
I also hope in an effort to reduce his sentence he rats on the others in the WH as to the Palme outing and they face trial.

When will people realize that there was NO GRAND CONSPIRACY to oust her?! The whole thing went so far because the White House tried to remain neutral instead of figuring out immediately who had leaked her name (Richard Armitage; had the State Department communicated this to the White House immediately, there would have been no investigation).
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
AeroWesty
Topic Author
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: 30 Months For Scooter Libby

Thu Jun 07, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 18):
I personally find his story plausible--that he was dealing with thousands of pages of information a day and could not recall specific conversations/events from that long ago.

This is the part that I find highly irregular. Any professional with any liability keeps notes from any conversation they have with someone outside their circle on topics which could come back to haunt them. When I left my trading position, I kept all of my memo books of notes I made during conversations I had with customers for the six year period there would have been any liability. I didn't bother to take notes of conversations with other brokers unless there was a strategy being discussed.

A few people I know have studied shorthand, and you can go to them after a meeting and they'll tell you word for word what the important parts of what you said were. I've no sympathy for someone who leaves himself open to liability.

For someone in Libby's position not to be able to recall what he said in this context is pick one: Stupid or Stupid. That's why he's going to be sitting in a cell soon.
International Homo of Mystery

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 1337Delta764, einsteinboricua, MileHighClubber, sbworcs, TheF15Ace and 21 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos