UH60FtRucker
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Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:56 am

Reported by ABCNews:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/06/document_iran_c.html

Quoting Iran Caught Red-Handed Shipping Arms to Taliban:
NATO officials say they have caught Iran red-handed, shipping heavy arms, C4 explosives and advanced roadside bombs to the Taliban for use against NATO forces, in what the officials say is a dramatic escalation of Iran's proxy war against the United States and Great Britain.

This is not small beans, folks.

This is serious weaponry that can cause a lot of damage and kill a lot of coalition soldiers.

Quote:
Iran and the Taliban had been fierce enemies when the Taliban was in power in Afghanistan, and their apparent collaboration came as a surprise to some in the intelligence community.

They're doing this in Iraq.... why is it such a big surprise they would be doing this in Afghanistan.

They want American soldiers dead. D-E-A-D.

And we're not doing a damn thing about it.

Quote:
"I think their goal is to make it very clear that Iran has the capability to make life worse for the United States on a variety of fronts," said Seth Jones of the Rand Institute, "even if they have to do some business with a group that has historically been their enemy."

So they're attempting to make our live very difficult... and we're doing what about this?

Christ.

Quote:
The coalition analysis says munitions recovered in two Iranian convoys, on April 11 and May 3, had "clear indications that they originated in Iran. Some were identical to Iranian supplied goods previously discovered in Iraq."

The April convoy was tracked from Iran into Helmand province and led a fierce firefight that destroyed one vehicle, according to the official analysis. A second vehicle was reportedly found to contain small arms ammunition, mortar rounds and more than 650 pounds of C4 demolition charges.

A second convoy of two vehicles was spotted on May 3 and led to the capture of five occupants and the seizure of RPG-7mm rockets and more than 1,000 pounds of C4, the analysis says.

Also among the munitions are components for the lethal EFPs, or explosive formed projectiles, the roadside bombs that U.S. officials say Iran has provided to Iraqi insurgents with deadly results.

So why aren't we engaging these targets? Why are we confronting Iran on this? What is it going to take to show that "No.... The Iranian government is NOT our friend. And no... our current "talking" is NOT working."

It's time we get tough with these f*ckers.

-UH60

Edit to add link

[Edited 2007-06-07 02:10:22]
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:10 am

"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:12 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 1):

lol I beat you to it, with a post edit only 18seconds prior.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:32 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
lol I beat you to it, with a post edit only 18seconds prior.

Dang you dastardly!! *shakes fist*

I suspect the apologists and Bush haters will be around soon.

Some will say that this is all part of Bush's (actually it's the evil neo-cons running the show behind his back) plan to go to war with Iran. Some will say that we shouldn't do anything about this since we run the risk of angering Iran.

Hey guess what, we already are at war with Iran, By proxy. And they sure are pretty mad with the US already, abducting American citizens and all.

We've already seen the lengths the apologists will go to. We found the EFPs, sniper rifles, Iranian soldiers and mortars in Iraq and they found a million excuses for it. Finding the same stuff going on in Afghanistan won't change their minds at all. After all, they still believe Iran's nuclear program is peaceful research.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:35 am

Oh crud, whats next? Can we do anything about it?

Hunter
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Mir
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:23 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 4):
Can we do anything about it?

That's the $1,000,000 question. Hopefully the members of NATO will come together to stop it, since we've seen what a disaster unilateral action can be.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
halls120
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 4):
Can we do anything about it?



Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

No, I'm NOT suggesting we go nuclear.

Actually, we've painted ourselves into a nice little corner here. If our Iraq adventure had indeed been a UN sanctioned effort, with true multilateral involvement, I doubt Iran would be interfering to the extent they are at this time.

We simply don't have the conventional strength to take Iran on directly. Not while we are fully engaged in Iraq.

Maybe we can get the UN to pressure Iran, but I doubt it.

[Edited 2007-06-07 03:50:02]
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
L-188
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:30 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 6):
No, I'm NOT suggesting we go nuclear.

No but Iran wants to, and anything they get the Taliban will get.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 6):
We simply don't have the conventional strength to take Iran on directly. Not while we are fully engaged in Iraq.

Agreed, it is a sad commentary to the 1990's that we now have less US Army divisions now in the whole army then where in country in nam in 68.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
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casinterest
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 7):
No but Iran wants to, and anything they get the Taliban will get.

Here is the problem. our action in Iraq has cost far too much. We have no colateral to bargain against attacking Iran. Wars cost money and resources, and no one follow a percieved fool to war.

Right now, the US is the fool, and the rest of the world is letting us suffer for it. Even if it is at their own perril.

I never trusted Iraq, Iran, or North Korea to do the right thing, and it seems i was correct in that assumption. Right now Iran is using all the leverage it can , in order to advance it's own agenda. Should they be stopped? I am not sure. I still feel there are a lot of good people in Iran, however the leadership is absolutely crooked and agenda driven.


I know i have disagreed with the situation in Iraq to no end, but it still does not bode well if Iran is running support and interferece for Iraq and Afghanistan. We definately don't have the resources ans people in region to handle the issue.
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HAWK21M
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:05 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 7):
No but Iran wants to, and anything they get the Taliban will get

Its not only Iran,but North Korea & Pakistan too.These countries if not secured enough lose their weapons to Terrorists that would target the popular Democracies.The problem is that theres no unity among the Democratic forces itself.
regds
MEL
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L-188
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:13 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 9):
Its not only Iran,but North Korea & Pakistan too

I'll grant you Pakistan, but not DPNK.

They will want money, materials or technology the Taliban probably doesn't have or is inferior to what the DPNK has already.

Quoting CasInterest (Reply 8):
I never trusted Iraq, Iran, or North Korea to do the right thing, and it seems i was correct in that assumption

Agreed, you can't trust any of those three.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
AirCop
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:38 pm

Interesting article in Newsweek (6/11/2007) this week "The Lady and the Veep". Apparently SOS Rice and VP Cheney views of how to deal with Iran are opposite of each other. Rice favors a diplomatic approach to Iran, and well everyone knows what Cheney would like to do. At the current time Rice seems to have more horsepower in DC, so her positions are winning out right now.

Quote from the article "British officials who asked for anonymity because of the nature of their work emphasize that they lack hard evidence linking the shipments to the Revolutionary Guards, and that the weapons could just as easily have been bought on the black market in Iran".

Just food for thought..
 
Confuscius
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:47 pm

Weren't Iran and the Taliban enemies just a few years ago? Who made allies out of them?
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L-188
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:57 pm

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 12):
Weren't Iran and the Taliban enemies just a few years ago? Who made allies out of them?

Common enemy.
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Confuscius
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:05 pm

Common enemy.

My enemy's enemy is my friend, I suppose. There's gonna be a lot of allies in that region.

[Edited 2007-06-07 07:06:11]
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HAWK21M
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:08 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
I'll grant you Pakistan, but not DPNK

DPNK are accused of getting Nuclear missile Technology transferred to Pakistan.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
N1120A
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:18 pm

So you pick a blog, not even a proper news source, as your be all, end all news source, after the Secretary of Defense says this:

"Secretary of Defense Robert Gates stopped short earlier this week of blaming Iran, saying the U.S. did not have evidence "of the involvement of the Iranian government in support of the Taliban.""

Not to mention the fact that Iran damn near took care of the Taliban for us prior to 9/11 after the Taliban murdered several Iranian diplomats.

Get real.
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Emirates773ER
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:39 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
So you pick a blog, not even a proper news source, as your be all, end all news source, after the Secretary of Defense says this:

"Secretary of Defense Robert Gates stopped short earlier this week of blaming Iran, saying the U.S. did not have evidence "of the involvement of the Iranian government in support of the Taliban.""

Not to mention the fact that Iran damn near took care of the Taliban for us prior to 9/11 after the Taliban murdered several Iranian diplomats.

Get real.

Exactly my thoughts but I could not bring myself to waste energy and write them down. This thread has to be the biggest farce there is.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
MDorBust
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:09 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
So you pick a blog, not even a proper news source, as your be all, end all news source, after the Secretary of Defense says this:



Quoting Emirates773er (Reply 17):
Exactly my thoughts but I could not bring myself to waste energy and write them down.

I'm sure you two guys can come up with a reasonable explanation for the origin of the seized materials... being as how it can't possibly be Iran...

As for the source being a lowly blog.. let's see if we can find it on some more "proper news source(s)"

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20070417-104247-7835r.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/05/30/iran.taliban/index.html
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/06/04/news/afghan.php
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/18/wo...9ec&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_r...tes_iran_arms_go_to_taliban-2.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exer...53-8626-4041-8290-365986728CE4.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2060612,00.html
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 18):
I'm sure you two guys can come up with a reasonable explanation for the origin of the seized materials... being as how it can't possibly be Iran...

How hard is it to get some weapons smuggled from Iran or the black market operating there. Iran helping the taliban would be like Russia helping the US to fight a war with China, you think its imaginable?
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
MDorBust
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:57 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 19):
How hard is it to get some weapons smuggled from Iran or the black market operating there.

Yeah, I'm sure you can just pick up 1,650 pounds of C4 from your local shady arms dealer...

The General we capture in Iraq... was he a black market General?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 20):
The General we capture in Iraq... was he a black market General?

Whose talking about Iraq here?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 20):
Yeah, I'm sure you can just pick up 1,650 pounds of C4 from your local shady arms dealer...

We are talking about guns and IED's, not 1650 pound explosivse. Stay on topic.
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tz757300
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:30 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 21):

We are talking about guns and IED's, not 1650 pound explosivse. Stay on topic.

Ummm...yeah, its on topic

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
shipping heavy arms, C4 explosives and advanced roadside bombs
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MDorBust
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 21):
Whose talking about Iraq here?

It's one and the same thing.

Iran suppling arms to insurgents in Iraq.
Iran suppling arms to insurgents in Afghanistan.

See a pattern here?

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 21):
We are talking about guns and IED's, not 1650 pound explosivse. Stay on topic.

Uh, read the source material yet? Now might be a good time.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:44 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 23):
It's one and the same thing.

Iran suppling arms to insurgents in Iraq.
Iran suppling arms to insurgents in Afghanistan.

See a pattern here?

No its not the same at all, the relations between Taliban who are hardcore Wahhabi's and the Iranians who are hardcore shias have been in dumps for years. The Iranian weapons being used in Iraq are also killing a lot of sunni muslims in the sectarian war taking place, supplying weapons to sunni's on on side and killing them on th other would be a senseless strategy.

Quoting TZ757300 (Reply 22):
Ummm...yeah, its on topic

Sorry I did not read that part.
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tz757300
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:45 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 24):

Sorry I did not read that part.

Not a problem, just pointing out what you missed
LETS GO MOUNTAINEERS!
 
MDorBust
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:48 pm

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 24):
No its not the same at all, the relations between Taliban who are hardcore Wahhabi's and the Iranians who are hardcore shias have been in dumps for years.

And Iran was chummy with Iraq?

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 24):
supplying weapons to sunni's on on side and killing them on th other would be a senseless strategy.

Unless your over all goal has nothing at all to do with islamic tribes and instead is the destabilization or erradication of American assets and interests in the region.

[Edited 2007-06-07 16:49:40]
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Thu Jun 07, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 26):
And Iran was chummy with Iraq?

No Iran was not chummy with Iraq because a Hardcore Sunni was rulling over the shias and torturing them, just like the Taliban.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 26):
Unless your over all goal has nothing at all to do with islamic tribes and instead is the destabilization or erradication of American assets and interests in the region.

Yeah right, replace on enemy with the other and hope it works out.  Yeah sure
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
MDorBust
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:14 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 27):
Yeah right, replace on enemy with the other and hope it works out.

Someone isn't thinking outside the box very much today.

What is the most likely result of giving the Taliban weapons? They'll use them to kill Americans. Okay, that's the obvious result, and is a bonus for Iran. But what's the other result? The Americans are going to kill lots of Taliban in retaliation. Hey, that's also a bonus for Iran. Instead of Iran directly fighting both of it's enemies, they fight each other.

Things Iran does not want:
1) A strong Taliban
2) US presence in Afghanistan

Win Win for Iran.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:16 am

Time to bomb Iran....
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
So you pick a blog

 ouch 

Would have been better, had he opened with something more along these lines . . .

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 18):
As for the source being a lowly blog.. let's see if we can find it on some more "proper news source(s)"

 thumbsup  Good source material, although, the only potential issue (as far as Anet) I see is that only one of those (CNN) refers to sources other than just the USA (the British), while the rest only source General Pace and the Defense Department. Not that I would doubt the others, but for skeptical Anet members, it helps to educate them further when they see it's not just the US making claims like these.

I may as well forget about the education of some members here, though - some are too stuck in their ways, sympathizing for Islamofacism and/or loathing the policies of the US.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 28):
Someone isn't thinking outside the box very much today.

Nope, I just don't like to jump onto band wagons without any proof. Thr is a thin line between thinking outside the box and making assumptions.

Proof:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
"Secretary of Defense Robert Gates stopped short earlier this week of blaming Iran, saying the U.S. did not have evidence "of the involvement of the Iranian government in support of the Taliban.""
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
baroque
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:47 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
I'll grant you Pakistan, but not DPNK.

in wonder where the DPNK get the heroin supplies that they seemed to be running to Aus a few years ago.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 12):
Weren't Iran and the Taliban enemies just a few years ago? Who made allies out of them?

They certainly were, and it would be some sort of remarkable "diplomatic" achievement if someone did make allies out of them. Since the Shia and Sunnis have been feuding ever since the Shia mislaid a prophet and the quarrel about Ali, I cannot see that even Rummy would be able to achieve this breakthrough!

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 19):
How hard is it to get some weapons smuggled from Iran or the black market operating there. Iran helping the taliban would be like Russia helping the US to fight a war with China, you think its imaginable?

However, those taking the heroin west might like to take something "useful" in the opposite direction and I understand the Taliban have almost completely given up using plasma TVs!!

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 24):
No its not the same at all, the relations between Taliban who are hardcore Wahhabi's and the Iranians who are hardcore shias have been in dumps for years. The Iranian weapons being used in Iraq are also killing a lot of sunni muslims in the sectarian war taking place, supplying weapons to sunni's on on side and killing them on th other would be a senseless strategy.

Official supply by Iran of arms to Iraq is obviously possible, but I would like to see it explained in detail. Most policies do have a fairly simple explanation. And perhaps if there is not an explanation, this is not a good description of what is happening.

As I understand it, most of the IEDs are being set off by Sunnis, and the Sunnis for the most part are killing Shia. The Shia to coalition ratio must be about 20 to 50 to one. I am not familiar with Shia maths, but I cannot think that the Iraqi Shia would be encouraging an arms trade that is killing them at a high multiple of the coalition forces. Maybe this is the case, but if it is, there has to be an explanation of what appears, on the face of it to be most unlikely.

OK, my enemies enemy is my friend, but if my enemies enemy is killing my lot at a very high rate, I am not likely to help him.

Or more simply, can we have an explanation why a Shia government (Iran) would supply arms to Sunni forces in Iraq when they use those arms mainly to kill Shia?

There was a time when Iran was extremely hostile to the Taliban and the Wahhabi links that they had. What has been done to allow that rift to be repaired, if indeed it has been repaired?

If Iran's aim was to embarrass America, surely they would also have arranged for the Sunnis to lay off the Shia? The equations just do not, on the face of it add up.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:52 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 31):
Nope, I just don't like to jump onto band wagons without any proof.

Proof as in the piles of captured material and personel in Afghanistan and Iraq?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:03 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 33):
Proof as in the piles of captured material and personel in Afghanistan and Iraq?

We are talking about Iraq and this is not sufficient proof.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
MDorBust
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:06 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 34):
We are talking about Iraq and this is not sufficient proof.

What?

The piles of weapons isn't sufficient proof of the existence of... the piles of weapons?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Joni
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:10 am

Of course, these claims that Iran is conspiring to destroy the US should be taken with a _huge_ grain of salt.

Here's an Inter Press Service story on this new trend of blaming stuff on Iran:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17843.htm

Quote:
Supporting the warnings by Brzezinski and Reidel about an al Qaeda "false flag" terrorist attack is a captured al Qaeda document found in a hideout of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in Iraq in 2006. The document, translated and released by the Iraqi National Security Adviser Mouwafek al-Rubaie, said "the best solution in order to get out of this crisis is to involve the U.S. forces in waging a war against another country or any hostile groups".
 
MDorBust
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:14 am

Quoting Joni (Reply 36):
Of course, these claims that Iran is conspiring to destroy the US should be taken with a _huge_ grain of salt.

Who made the claim that Iran is conspiring to destroy the US?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:17 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 35):
What?

The piles of weapons isn't sufficient proof of the existence of... the piles of weapons?

Yup, just like the proof of WMD existing but not exisiting at the same time.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
andessmf
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 24):
No its not the same at all, the relations between Taliban who are hardcore Wahhabi's and the Iranians who are hardcore shias have been in dumps for years.

Let's see, what is the religious affiliation of the regime in Syria? And does Syria and Iran have a good 'working' relationship? See a pattern?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 28):
What is the most likely result of giving the Taliban weapons?

A US defeat in the area will give Iran much more influence there.

Quoting Joni (Reply 36):
Of course, these claims that Iran is conspiring to destroy the US should be taken with a _huge_ grain of salt.

Yeah, because no one has made it.
 
baroque
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:24 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 28):
Things Iran does not want:
1) A strong Taliban
2) US presence in Afghanistan

Agreed that Iran does not want a strong Taliban. At first Iran was quite happy with the US presence in Afghanistan, and what happened to change that is by no means clear. I do not think it is as simple as US objections to Iran's nuclear plans, the problems seemed to start long before that brouhaha.

But also agreed that by now Iran does not want the US in Afghanistan. For the Taliban to be able to get rid of the US would predicate a very strong Taliban, so that goes against thesis #1.

So this looks more like a lose lose scenario, or that is how I think the Iranians would view it. OK, the Iranian would like to embarrass the US, but to support a group of Wahhabi influenced rivals, I just do not see it.

It seems more likely that the sale of arms is connected with the heroin trade - what is that worth in Afghanistan, 2 to 5 billion or so? There are still plenty of warlords on the loose, some of them now "elected" to the Afghan government.

The other party that is being ignored is Pakistan - who after all were the first sponsors for the Taliban. Why not look there? The ISI would be more than capable of organizing arms to look as if they came from Iran. BTW, it is strangely difficult to find either Omar or OBL, now why could that be? And is OBL Shia, no, he most definitely is not. And this caliphate that OBL wants to set up was what the original quarrel between the Sunnis and the Shia was all about.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:25 am

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 38):
Yup, just like the proof of WMD existing but not exisiting at the same time.

I'll take it you never actually read the ISG report for yourself and just accepted that WMD's were never found.

But that's just a red herring.

I'll take your word for it, you're delusional. Physically seized weapons aren't enough proof for you of the existence of weapons. I'm sure there's a very deep philosophical tangent there touching on the nature of existence, but I won't go down it with you. I'll just accept that there is nothing, not even tangible solid evidence, that can convince you. We call this, being irrational.
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Emirates773ER
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:41 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 41):
I'll take it you never actually read the ISG report for yourself and just accepted that WMD's were never found.

But that's just a red herring.

I'll take your word for it, you're delusional. Physically seized weapons aren't enough proof for you of the existence of weapons. I'm sure there's a very deep philosophical tangent there touching on the nature of existence, but I won't go down it with you. I'll just accept that there is nothing, not even tangible solid evidence, that can convince you. We call this, being irrational.

Delusional? Mate have you got any idea what you talking about? This is what came out of th white house:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
"Secretary of Defense Robert Gates stopped short earlier this week of blaming Iran, saying the U.S. did not have evidence "of the involvement of the Iranian government in support of the Taliban.""

Why the hell would I take your statment over him? Just because you are running out of arguments does not suggest other people ar dlusional and making things up. Read the statemnt of your own defense secretary, ponder over it and use a dictionary if needed.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 39):
Let's see, what is the religious affiliation of the regime in Syria? And does Syria and Iran have a good 'working' relationship? See a pattern?

They have had a great relationship since 1979 when the revolution took place, there has never been bad blood between both these countries and Syria is not a follower of Wahhabi Islam nor does it promote it. Syrian polictics has always had more to do with diplomacy than religion, proof bing that Bashr Al Assad is himself Shia (Alawi Sect).

Quoting Baroque (Reply 40):
So this looks more like a lose lose scenario, or that is how I think the Iranians would view it. OK, the Iranian would like to embarrass the US, but to support a group of Wahhabi influenced rivals, I just do not see it.

People just don't seem to understand the amount of hatred they have among themselves, take Iraq for instance and have a look at the sectarian blood bath going on there. People like Zawahiri were actually supported and cheered by the Taliban for slaying the shias, and now they take weapons from the same?

[Edited 2007-06-07 18:44:28]
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N1120A
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 23):

Uh, read the source material yet?

"It is not as clear in Afghanistan which Iranian entity is responsible"

"We know about illegal movements of munitions across the border from Iran to Afghanistan, destined for the Taliban," the British Ministry of Defense said in a statement. "We are concerned that some of these munitions are of Iranian origin."

"Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Monday that Iranian weapons had begun flowing to the Taliban in Afghanistan in recent months but acknowledged that drug smugglers or other criminal networks, not the Iranian government, might be behind the shipments."

"It was the first time that a senior American official had asserted that Iranian-made weapons were being supplied to the Taliban. But Gen. Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said it was not clear if the Iranian government had authorized the shipment."

"There have been indications over the past few months of weapons coming in from Iran," Gates told reporters with Karzai at his side. "We do not have any information about whether the government of Iran is supporting this, is behind it, or whether it's smuggling."

"However General Peter Pace, chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, said on Tuesday it was unclear who had authorised the shipment of Iranian mortars and explosives, discovered in Kandahar last month."

"We don't know exactly who is doing this and why"

Those are significant quotes from each one of the articles mentioned above. They still don't know who, if anyone, is doing this.
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Joni
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 41):
I'll take it you never actually read the ISG report for yourself and just accepted that WMD's were never found.

The head of the ISG was also under the impression that the WMDs weren't found (and the few odd, old shells mentioned in the appendix still don't count, sorry. In particular they couldn't create Condoleezza's mushroom clouds or strike Britain in 45 minutes =).
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 29):
Time to bomb Iran....

Are you saying Bomb Iran or bomb the military sites in Iran.What would you say if the Iranian govt thought the other way around regarding bombing others.
Its easy to say "war" sitting behind a monitor screen when one does not know what the effects of war brings.

Diplomatic means first,then strikes at only Military installations.Killing of Iranian civillians will create more hate.
regds
MEL
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baroque
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:54 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):
"There have been indications over the past few months of weapons coming in from Iran," Gates told reporters with Karzai at his side. "We do not have any information about whether the government of Iran is supporting this, is behind it, or whether it's smuggling."



Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):
Those are significant quotes from each one of the articles mentioned above. They still don't know who, if anyone, is doing this.

On the principle of "follow the money" you first have to account for the heroin money. They are not giving that stuff away. We know it is grown harvested and most is sent west. So what is the quid pro quo for that? We don't really know how much goes into Pakistan and the ISI are not going to let us know. So that is another unknown.

And IF Shia Iran is supporting the Taliban, that itself is a story that needs to be told. It is a sea change, the like of which has not happened in about 1300 years.
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 45):
Are you saying Bomb Iran or bomb the military sites in Iran.

Just the military. Sorry for the confusion.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 40):
The other party that is being ignored is Pakistan -

Pakistan needs looking at for their behavior of late, but I don't believe in this situation.

There is one very damning thing in regards to Iran. We know these weapons are coming from Iranian military stocks (thank you Steyr).

If they are being stolen from the Iranian government and sold through black market channels why aren't heads rolling in the Iranian military?

It would be a very simple matter for Mr. Ahmadinejad to scape goat someone on this.

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 42):
This is what came out of th white house


Quote:
Those are significant quotes from each one of the articles mentioned above. They still don't know who, if anyone, is doing this.

Yes, the White House has released yet another in a long series of ambiguous statements.

Are you guys new to politics?

Were you guys around during the Cold War?

It's amazing the things that the US and Soviets might or might not have done to each other without really being able to safe if they may or may not have been done.

[Edited 2007-06-07 19:00:34]
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: Iran Supplying Arms To Taliban

Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:29 am

Well this thread is quickly spiralling out of control.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
Get real.

I'd really love to join you, and stick my head in the sand, but I just can't ignore what's going on.

The fact that people still reject the assertion that Iran is actively supply weapons to those fighting American soldiers... is beyond comprehension.

I suppose the Iranian supplied SA-7, which was fired at me, was nothing more than a figment of my imagination? Or even worse, the launcher was planted by the CIA in order to frame Iran!  Yeah sure

So Alireza, GET REAL.

Quoting Emirates773er (Reply 17):
Exactly my thoughts



Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 19):
How hard is it to get some weapons smuggled from Iran or the black market operating there. Iran helping the taliban would be like Russia helping the US to fight a war with China, you think its imaginable?

Iran helping Iraqis was also thought to be unbelievable some 10 years ago. Hell, the wounds from the Iran-Iraq war are still fresh on the minds of many Iranians.

...and yet, there they are, helping Iraqis target American soldiers.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 20):

Yeah, I'm sure you can just pick up 1,650 pounds of C4 from your local shady arms dealer...

The General we capture in Iraq... was he a black market General?

lol... good point.

Sometimes I think people don't realize the destructive power, these weapons can have. "Oh... it's just RPGs... big deal." It's scary, because these are the same people who obviously don't give a shit when this news breaks.

--------------------------------------

Look... if a group of Americans was independently supplying a band of international outlaws, wouldn't there be extreme pressure for the US government to crack down on these people?

If.... IF it is not the Iranian government who is supplying these arms... and it's as Emirates773's claims - a band of black market outlaws - then what is wrong with pressuring Iran to crack down on them???

And if Iran's government ignores the demand, then are they not complicit? Are they not partly responsible for the death and destruction that those weapons cause?

Some of you keep saying that Iran isn't as dangerous as some claim. Yet... these same people are arguing that it's not IRAN who is at fault, but uncontrolled black market outlaws. Well jesus! It seems to me, that if they can't even control their own people, and control their military hardware and weapons! ---- then they're pretty dangerous.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.

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