MDorBust
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San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:00 am

What can San Fran possibly try to get rid of now one might ask?

How about, the Blue Angels

http://www.examiner.com/a-768103~Dal...ve_to_ground_Blue_Angels_show.html
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AeroWesty
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:08 am

Quoting MDorBust (Thread starter):
How about, the Blue Angels

In all honesty, I've nothing against the Blue Angels, and have enjoyed seeing them at a couple of air shows, but if you've ever been in SF while they practice, the sound is deafening at times. With all the concern over keeping cities safe, and the number of accidents the Blue Angels have had, it isn't exactly prudent for them to be having rehearsals over the City.
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Aaron747
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:08 am

Chris Daly has always been a loudmouth buffoon hungry for any kind of negative attention possible. If he really wants to ban the Angels over public safety (highly doubtful) he should pay the chamber of commerce the difference in lost tourism revenue. He's dirty enough to have a couple mil stashed away somewhere, I'm sure of it.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:13 am

Gotta love those San Fran values, eh?

"CodePink, Global Exchange and Veterans for Peace, Chapter 69, are working with Supervisor Chris Daly on a Board of Supervisors resolution to address concerns over the Blue Angels."

Absolutely pathetic . . . really. No two ways around it. Pathetic.

All the more reason I never wanna have to go back to San Fran again. Too bad. It's a pretty place to visit . . . . unfortunately, it's governed by a load of screwballs, both in SFO and DC.

Oh, did I mention the CIty Board of Supervisors are all criminals?

Oh, why yes I did: Forget "Illegal" In Illegal Immigrant (by JetsGo Jun 6 2007 in Non Aviation)
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JeffSFO
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:25 am

Daly is a douchebag. Fortunately, he's the only one on the Board of Supervisors who's mentioned in the article.

Additionally, it seems that any resolution he introduces is non-binding, so he's just full of hot air:

Quote:
Daly acknowledged he is considering a call to halt the flyovers because, he said, “they seem dangerous and unnecessary.” Daly said he plans on introducing the resolution as early as Tuesday, but is still drafting the language. A resolution is not legally binding, but states a board position.
 
andessmf
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:37 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1):
but if you've ever been in SF while they practice, the sound is deafening at times.

Well, yes, but so are Harley Davidsons. Anyways, the Thunderbirds are practicing today over my house/office, and I have seen many people outside watching their performance. And they are not complaining.

Then again, we are not SFO.  relieved 
 
UH60FtRucker
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:44 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1):
and the number of accidents the Blue Angels have had

Well they're really not that dangerous!

Quote:
CodePink, Global Exchange and Veterans for Peace, Chapter 69, are working with Supervisor Chris Daly on a Board of Supervisors resolution to address concerns over the Blue Angels.

...yeah I'm sure they're primary concern is "noise pollution."

Quote:
Daly acknowledged he is considering a call to halt the flyovers because, he said, “they seem dangerous and unnecessary.” Daly said he plans on introducing the resolution as early as Tuesday, but is still drafting the language. A resolution is not legally binding, but states a board position.

Well at least it's not legally binding, and the airshow will proceed as scheduled!

Quote:
Veterans for Peace takes issue with the pro-military message and the recruiting efforts that come along with the annual visit as well as what it refers to as the “noise pollution.” The group calls the event a public safety risk, pointing to the April crash of a Blue Angels plane during an air show in Beaufort, S.C.

Well... if I was them, I would be less concerned with the Blue Angels - who, since their creation in 1946, have lost 26 pilots in airshows or practice sessions. And more concerned with the city's ~70 homicides last year. Certainly far more of a threat to their safety, than the airshow!

They need their priorities in order!

Quote:
Just a slight miscalculation or a mechanical failure can cause a plane to “go barreling into the Golden Gate Bridge or a high-rise and cause a significant amount of damage,” said Paul Cox, a Vietnam veteran and member of the Veterans for Peace.

...Again, Mr. Cox ought to be more concerned with the plausible, and less with the possible.


------------------------------------------


Anyway... their whole "noise pollution/potential danger" argument seems disingenuous and pathetic. Why don't they simply say what they really think - They are anti-military, and do not want San Francisco to be apart of any pro-military event.

Why the subterfuge and this secondary argument of potential hazard? Why not have the principles to say what they believe? Perhaps it's because they're aware of how out-of-wack their anti-military views are with the rest of the country?

-UH60

[Edited 2007-06-08 01:46:12]
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airtran737
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:44 am

Just one more reason why I hope the big one comes and shakes San Fran loose from the continent and it drifts out into the Pacific. Are these the values that Nancy Pelosi is hoping to spread?
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AeroWesty
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:44 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 5):
And they are not complaining.

That's not really my main point, so I'll repeat it. I don't believe it's prudent for aerial acrobatics to be rehearsed over a densely-populated area. Go practice out over the ocean or over farmland. Then come and do the show.
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AeroWesty
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:48 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 6):
Anyway... their whole "noise pollution/potential danger" argument seems disingenuous and pathetic. Why don't they simply say what they really think - They are anti-military, and do not want San Francisco to be apart of any pro-military event.

I don't support the way they rehearse over cities, but I'm not anti-military.
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:51 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 7):
Just one more reason why I hope the big one comes and shakes San Fran loose from the continent and it drifts out into the Pacific. Are these the values that Nancy Pelosi is hoping to spread?

Come'on, dude... why do you need to say crap like this???

When you post this junk, you're making yourself just as crazy and nutty as the protesters you are angry at!

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
That's not really my main point, so I'll repeat it. I don't believe it's prudent for aerial acrobatics to be rehearsed over a densely-populated area. Go practice out over the ocean or over farmland. Then come and do the show.

Well, unfortunately, doing so would make the airshow MORE dangerous!

Because practicing over the actual area you will be flying is essential. The pilots will use prominent landmarks as visual cues of when they need to initiate, and terminate, their maneuvers.

For instance, they will use a landmark - say building, as a point of when they should initiate their role. They will use time and speed in order to perform that maneuver. As they exit, they are looking for more landmarks to confirm they are within limits. If they see they are off, they abort.

Practicing over water only denies them what they need most - on the scene practice. Take that away from them, and you're increasing the chances of an accident.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
andessmf
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:53 am

Qoutes from the referenced article:

"Veterans for Peace takes issue with the pro-military message and the recruiting efforts that come along with the annual visit"

"the more challenging maneuvers are conducted over the Bay waters and that “commercial airlines fly over The City all the time."

"Just a slight miscalculation or a mechanical failure can cause a plane to “go barreling into the Golden Gate Bridge or a high-rise and cause a significant amount of damage”

The Thunderbirds were and probably will practice right over my house. But looking at their flight pattern, and the same pattern was followed by the Blue Angels last year, they try to avoid any populated areas.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
Go practice out over the ocean or over farmland.

That is what they seem to be doing, since after all, SFO is surrounded by water. But the first quote kinda really shows what bothers them, doesn't it?
 
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 10):
Practicing over water only denies them what they need most - on the scene practice. Take that away from them, and you're increasing the chances of an accident.

I wonder how many major cities the Blue Angels perform over in their airshow tours? When they come to Portland, they perform out in Hillsboro, miles from the city itself. But when they perform at Fleet Week, it's right over the City. Yes, accidents do happen, and yes, one of them could land in the middle of a neighborhood.
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AirCop
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
I don't believe it's prudent for aerial acrobatics to be rehearsed over a densely-populated area. Go practice out over the ocean or over farmland. Then come and do the show.

 checkmark 

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1):

but if you've ever been in SF while they practice, the sound is deafening at times.

Been there, couldn't hear the person next to me. (which might have been a good thing). Nothing against military planes, as they are the "sound of freedom", I'm not in favor of the resolution but imagine the fall out would be should one crash during training into downtown San Francisco on a busy Friday afternoon..now bring on the show..
 
AeroWesty
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:59 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 11):
"the more challenging maneuvers are conducted over the Bay waters and that “commercial airlines fly over The City all the time."

Okay, have you ever stood in SF when a commercial airliner flies over? When the Blue Angels fly over? It's apple and oranges. A commercial aircraft taking off from the 1s gains a lot of altitude over the Bay before circling over the City. The Blue Angels scream over the City. Major difference.

I doubt if anyone who's posted so far has been in SF during Fleet Week when the Blue Angels have been there.

Edit: Except for AirCop who posted while I was composing.  silly 

[Edited 2007-06-08 02:00:57]
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:08 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 12):
I wonder how many major cities the Blue Angels perform over in their airshow tours? When they come to Portland, they perform out in Hillsboro, miles from the city itself. But when they perform at Fleet Week, it's right over the City. Yes, accidents do happen, and yes, one of them could land in the middle of a neighborhood.

And a meteor could fall from the sky.

Prior to all airshows, both the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds perform at least one dry run.

In some areas, they will fly higher in an attempt to minimize disturbance.

In Alaska, they literally have to wait hours for an available hour to practice over the airshow sight. During the summer, there are so many general aviation aircraft in the sky - many not in radio contact with ANC - that it's hazardous for them to practice. So they simply sit, and wait. As soon as a window opens, they take it.

Yes... they will practice outside the airshow area. They must remain proficient in their maneuvers and skills, and they can do this at nearby airports. However, it is very important they do a dry run (and the more, the better).

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
I don't support the way they rehearse over cities, but I'm not anti-military.

I believe you, and I don't lump you together with these protesters.

But I don't believe that their primary concern is the noise.

I believe that this speaks volumes:

Quote:
Veterans for Peace takes issue with the pro-military message and the recruiting efforts that come along with the annual visit as well as what it refers to as the “noise pollution.”

The noise almost comes secondary to them, and makes a convenient "out" for them. It would be far more difficult to fight the airshow because they don't like the military.

Look... whatever - they don't like us. Whoopie. But why are they opposed to the military recruiting new members? Of course this is a pro-military event. Its exciting, and it gives you pride in America's best. But why are they opposed to young teenagers seeing this airshow and the fleet, and perhaps becoming interested in a military career?

-UH60
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:08 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14):
I doubt if anyone who's posted so far has been in SF during Fleet Week when the Blue Angels have been there.

And me - when I was 12.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
JeffSFO
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:09 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14):
I doubt if anyone who's posted so far has been in SF during Fleet Week when the Blue Angels have been there.

They're loud, but that's never bothered me--the noise is most of the fun! However, once back in 1999 when I was working from home during 1 of their practice sessions, I got irritated because I couldn't hear my client over the phone. Otherwise, it's a temporary interruption at worst.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:10 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 10):
Well, unfortunately, doing so would make the airshow MORE dangerous!

Because practicing over the actual area you will be flying is essential. The pilots will use prominent landmarks as visual cues of when they need to initiate, and terminate, their maneuvers

 checkmark 

This whole thing is nothing more than another veiled attempt to push the military out of San Fran . . . . that's all . . .

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14):
I doubt if anyone who's posted so far has been in SF during Fleet Week when the Blue Angels have been there.

Nope. But Andrews AFB and Eieleson AFB and Pope AFB for airshows. Not a lot of difference.

Nothing more here Westy than Peaceniks run amok!
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searpqx
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:11 am

Daly is an idiot and I'll put money his resolution dies a quick inglorious death. Watching the Blue Angels (or any aerial precision flying team) perform is breathtaking and I'd imagine a highlight for many during Fleet Week.

That being said, if one of A.nets famous 'libs' had posted an article titled 'Republican's asinine anti whatever is back', then linked to an article that showed ONE big mouth idiot, supported by three fringe groups, was proposing something outlandish, with no indication of any popular or governmental backing, every one of you who's blasted the city of San Francisco for this, would be quick to point out how one idiot doesn't represent all Republicans, and you'd be lambasting the poster for invalid and unsupportable generalizations.

Just read the comments, the locals are posting three to one (guestimate) against Daly and the resolution. Yes, there are more left leaning folks in SF (And Seattle, and LA, etc) than in many other places, and yes the BoS has stuck its collective foot in its mouth a couple of times, including over military matters, but some of the comments in here, lumping all San Franciscans into one group, amaze me.
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AeroWesty
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 15):
Its exciting, and it gives you pride in America's best. But why are they opposed to young teenagers seeing this airshow and the fleet, and perhaps becoming interested in a military career?

Someday, President Bush should get over his San Francisco-phobia, and visit the City during Fleet Week. Some of the people commenting in this thread should as well. It's a time-honored, welcomed event, which creates a lot of interest and tourist dollars.

I didn't see a thing in the proposal to get rid of Fleet Week, all I saw was an objection to the noise the Blue Angels make, and a platform for that to push an agenda about military recruiting. Okay, big deal. The thing is, you need to have been to SF to see the entire production that is Fleet Week before doing the "San Francisco is anti-military shuffle".

Read the article and the description of what goes on:

"For four of the six days, the flashy blue- and yellow-striped planes soar through the skies over the northern waterfront at speeds reaching 700 miles per hour, and perform such maneuvers as vertical rolls. As part of the show, six planes group together in tight formation to perform deft maneuvers."

Four days worth of 700MPH maneuvers.
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ANCFlyer
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 19):
every one of you who's blasted the city of San Francisco for this, would be quick to point out how one idiot doesn't represent all Republicans,

And one idiot in SFO doesn't represent all Liberal Democrats . . . .

But, IMO, this guy DOES represent current, and growing, San Fran anti-military values . . .
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AirCop
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:19 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
Nope. But Andrews AFB and Eieleson AFB and Pope AFB for airshows. Not a lot of difference.

Personally, I believe there is a lot of difference between these places and San Francisco, due to the geographic features of San Francisco.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 19):
lumping all San Franciscans into one group, amaze me.

 checkmark 
I still can't believe this resolution, if its even submitted, will be approved.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:26 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 22):
Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
Nope. But Andrews AFB and Eieleson AFB and Pope AFB for airshows. Not a lot of difference.


Personally, I believe there is a lot of difference between these places and San Francisco, due to the geographic features of San Francisco.

We were discussing the loudness of an airshow - jets flying overhead . . . . etc.

You may have a point, but I submit standing 200 feet under a B-1 is going to be loud whether you're in SFO, EAFB, or Timbuktoo.

Regardless:

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
IMO, this guy DOES represent current, and growing, San Fran anti-military values . . .

Example:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8C3PH0G0&show_article=1
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...-08-san-francisco-battleship_x.htm

DItto:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten.../Articles/000/000/006/381ngctp.asp
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...f=/c/a/2005/11/09/BAG9RFKD1C82.DTL

A quick Google Search could reveal more.

[Edited 2007-06-08 02:29:18]
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NWA742
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:27 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 18):
This whole thing is nothing more than another veiled attempt to push the military out of San Fran . . . . that's all . . .

  

And it's utterly sickening. This isn't about safety, noise, or any of those lame excuses. Anyone who buys that nonsense needs swift kick into the reality that is San Francisco and ultra-left wing anti-military CA. AndesSMF proved their reasons and intentions quite clear, if they weren't obvious enough.




-NWA742

[Edited 2007-06-08 02:28:27]
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):
Four days worth of 700MPH maneuvers.

lol... I lived at Camp Anaconda, which was also Balad Air Base. The Army and the USAF had tons of equipment flying in and out of there.

Now I can tell the difference between a F-16 taking off, verse a F-15. Hell... I can tell whether an Apache is in a decent or climb, I heard the sound so often!!

7 days of seeing F-18s twisting and burning sounds awesome!

-UH60
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NWA742
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:38 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 25):
7 days of seeing F-18s twisting and burning sounds awesome!

I'd be happy to watch that every day.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
AirCop
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:42 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 23):
We were discussing the loudness of an airshow - jets flying overhead . . . . etc.

Jets are loud everywhere, but once the noise gets into the high rises just makes its extra loud..talk about loud hated the B-52's a my base..

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 21):
But, IMO, this guy DOES represent current, and growing, San Fran anti-military values . . .

I don't know if the SF ant-military values are growing, the SF BOS seemed to be anti-military during the time I was growing up in the 60's so nothing really change..
 
AeroWesty
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:45 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 23):
Example:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8C3PH0G0&show_article=1
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...x.htm

The Supes decided to take a stand using the Iowa as an example.

1) Against the exclusion of gays and lesbians in the military; and
2) Local opposition to the war in Iraq.

Some people take that as anti-military. I take that as speaking up against a policy of the military and the current administration.

The City passed up a lot of potential income by making a stand. Well, that's their decision. Even Feinstein, for as much as she's written off as a crazy San Franciscan, was against their decision.

You know I grew up in the Bay Area. One of my great uncles was a model-maker for the Navy at Mare Island, carving by hand museum-quality replicas of the fleet. A number of his works are in the Maritime Museum in SF. My dad was the first son born to an officer of the USS California, that was later sunk at Pearl Harbor. The proudest day for both of them I ever remember was when they took me to the museum to show me the model of the California and tell me our history with it when I was old enough to understand it all.

You should go sometime: http://www.maritime.org/index.htm

There is a vast and noble history associated with San Francisco and the military. You'll get kooks on any subject, but the way Fleet Week has endured tells me the kooks are the exception, not the norm.
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slider
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:45 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1):
but if you've ever been in SF while they practice, the sound is deafening at times.

WAAAAAHHHH!!!!!

Sound of freedom bubba....

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 7):
Just one more reason why I hope the big one comes and shakes San Fran loose from the continent and it drifts out into the Pacific.

Word.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
I don't support the way they rehearse over cities, but I'm not anti-military.

The Blue Angels are one of the most specialized flyingg units in the universe. They practice with methodical and fanatical precision. They need the perspective of earth below, not just water, as part of their training regimen, to be sure.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting Slider (Reply 29):
They need the perspective of earth below, not just water, as part of their training regimen, to be sure.

Nothing like coming late to the party, eh?
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MDorBust
Topic Author
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:48 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 20):
Four days worth of 700MPH maneuvers.

Uh Westy, have you ever actually been to a Blue Angles performace?

The only high velocity manuver is the sneak pass. And no, they aren't allowed to go supersonic for it. All other manuvers are performed well under 700mph.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
AeroWesty
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:51 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
Uh Westy, have you ever actually been to a Blue Angles performace?

Yes, I have. Both in SF and Portland.

Have you ever been to SF during Fleet Week? Ever heard the sound reverberate off the buildings downtown and the hills around the Bay? You just cannot compare their performance in SF with anywhere else I know of.
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MDorBust
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 32):
Have you ever been to SF during Fleet Week?

No I haven't, but I've got some great experince with loud noises and sound reflections.

However, I find it hard to believe that they are going to start performing the Diamond Roll at 700mph.

I can just imagine the poor announcer. "And now the diamond will return to show center to perform the famous Diamond Roll. If you would just look to the Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeffffffffff......errr, never mind. And for the next routine... err.. Um, nevermind on that one too. And now the soloist willll.... err.. "
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 32):
Have you ever been to SF during Fleet Week? Ever heard the sound reverberate off the buildings downtown and the hills around the Bay? You just cannot compare their performance in SF with anywhere else I know of.

Well I dunno.... the Seattle airshow is pretty unique. And Kaneohe Bay is both beautiful AND loud.

Like 4 or 5 years ago, when I was still in college, I went to Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii... that was amazing. Even better than San Fran... although I was like 12 when I went to that one.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:07 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 33):
No I haven't

When you've spent an entire week in SF during Fleet Week, you'll have some comparison. Honestly, I haven't lived in the Bay Area for 20 years now, but I was there when the Blue Angels first started flying during Fleet Week in the early 80s, and a couple of times during visits in past years.
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MDorBust
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:15 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 35):
When you've spent an entire week in SF during Fleet Week, you'll have some comparison.

Oh I have some compassionate understanding for the noise. But here's where it falls through. The Angles perform for a grand total of four days. And they're conveniently scheduled and published way ahead of time. I probably suck more random decibels from the turd next to me in traffic that thinks it's cool to shake foundations with his car stereo... and he doesn't even have the common courtesy to tell me ahead of time. And I'm very certain the noise isn't any worse than it is for the people that hold the fence at Princess Juliana as some sadistic A.net ritual of passage.



Here's a pair of cranials.

If you don't want to get out of town to avoid the flood of sailors  smirk  then put them in for the twenty minutes the show lasts.
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:17 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 36):
And I'm very certain the noise isn't any worse than it is for the people that hold the fence at Princess Juliana as some sadistic A.net ritual of passage.

I've been there too, so I know the comparison. Have you? Big grin
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ANCFlyer
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:23 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 28):
I take that as speaking up against a policy of the military



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 28):
Against the exclusion of gays and lesbians in the military

I'll give you this one . . . partially (see below) . . . you know my position on that.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 28):
I take that as speaking up against a policy of the military and the current administration.



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 28):
Local opposition to the war in Iraq.

THis one not so fast.

The current administration will be gone in 2 years.

Regardless:

That was a chicken-crap effort. The Iowa does NOT represent the current administration. The Iowa doesn't represent the policy. The Iowa is History, decades of it. And a lot of it right in San Fran.

So a policy the military has, and this current administration, is the cause for simply disrespecting everything the Iowa stands for?

Baffling. Typical anti-military San Francisco.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 28):
There is a vast and noble history associated with San Francisco and the military.

Exactly my point. Question: Why are the all collected in SF   ?

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 34):
Like 4 or 5 years ago, when I was still in college,

 faint 

[Edited 2007-06-08 03:28:56]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:28 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 37):
I've been there too, so I know the comparison. Have you?

No, But I've played the golf course at MCAS Iwakuni. Play stops for air-ops if you know what I mean.

[Edited 2007-06-08 03:29:17]
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:30 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 38):
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 28):Local opposition to the war in Iraq.
THis one not so fast.

The current administration will be gone in 2 years.

The opposition to the Iowa took place in the summer of '04, right smack dab in the middle of Bush's re-election campaign and just weeks prior to the Republican convention.
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:37 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 40):
The opposition to the Iowa took place in the summer of '04, right smack dab in the middle of Bush's re-election campaign and just weeks prior to the Republican convention.

Understood. Irrelevent.

Administrations come and go.

Memorials to fallen servicemembers is timeless . . .

Shame on the SF Board of Supervisors - yet again.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:40 am

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 41):
Shame on the SF Board of Supervisors - yet again.

I understand. I didn't agree with it, but that's what they decided to do. Neither of us live there to vote them out of office.
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:03 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 7):
Just one more reason why I hope the big one comes and shakes San Fran loose from the continent and it drifts out into the Pacific.



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 10):
Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 7):
Just one more reason why I hope the big one comes and shakes San Fran loose from the continent and it drifts out into the Pacific. Are these the values that Nancy Pelosi is hoping to spread?

Come'on, dude... why do you need to say crap like this???

When you post this junk, you're making yourself just as crazy and nutty as the protesters you are angry at!

 checkmark  Bravo for stooping almost as low as Daly, AT737.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 24):
Anyone who buys that nonsense needs swift kick into the reality that is San Francisco and ultra-left wing anti-military CA

That goes for you too. Reasonable people in this thread have asserted that a good portion of the SF citizenry and the idiots they elect to the Board of Stupidvisors (in local parlance, no less) are out of touch when it comes to the military. But with this comment you demonstrate the extent to which you're out of touch with California. If you think the whole of California is ultra-left wing, you don't know the first thing about California politics.

An interesting note on this issue is that anyone in the SF city government, which pines for every available tourist dollar, would be caught dead speaking out against a guaranteed revenue source. As much as I despise suburbia, you won't hear any of the county officials in the South Bay Area complaining about the Thunderbirds, Starlifters and Galaxies that frequent the Moffett Field air show NASA hosts every year.
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AirCop
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:13 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 43):
But with this comment you demonstrate the extent to which you're out of touch with California. If you think the whole of California is ultra-left wing, you don't know the first thing about California politics.

 checkmark  Get away from the Bay Area, and Los Angeles proper, most of California is moderate to conservative in its outlook. Say whatever you want about California, they do have an attitude about facing challenges head-on and getting the important things done. Prime examples of the recovery after the 1989 and 1994 earthquakes; you didn't see California officials complaining about federal emergency response (like a certain state in the south), they just to work rebuilding..Aside from San Francisco, I can't think of one local governing body in California that worked against the military.
 
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:15 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14):
I doubt if anyone who's posted so far has been in SF during Fleet Week when the Blue Angels have been there.

I watch the show every year. I love watching the Blue Angels perform. I lived right in the heart of the city for 16 years before moving slightly out to the burbs. The Angels flew overhead my apartment building, and it was a blast! We'd all go up on the roof to watch them scream by. Yeah, it was loud, but so what - it's only 2 days a year. And just FYI... they actually do their practice runs way out over the bay, not directly over the city.

Chris Daly is a gas bag - plain and simple. Unfortunately, grandstanding on nonsensical or unenforceable or non-binding issues is a staple of Bay Area politics. Nobody takes any of it seriously here. I admit, it is silly fodder for all the haters out there, but hey... the far right wingnuts would simply find something else to rip us for. Blasting Nancy Pelosi for something Chris Daly says is like blaming Bush for... (oh wait, we do all the time, so "all's fair in...")
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NWA742
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:31 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 43):
That goes for you too. Reasonable people in this thread have asserted that a good portion of the SF citizenry and the idiots they elect to the Board of Stupidvisors (in local parlance, no less) are out of touch when it comes to the military. But with this comment you demonstrate the extent to which you're out of touch with California. If you think the whole of California is ultra-left wing, you don't know the first thing about California politics.

I didn't intend to imply that the whole state of of California is ultra-left wing, you misunderstood me.

The point I was making was that SFO and other ultra-left wing CA havens have become anti-military, traitorous hotspots, and some people here are completely ignoring the real reasons why they're trying to ban the Blue Angels from performing, and hint hint - it has nothing to do with safety or noise.




-NWA742
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:31 am

At my University, ANG F-16's fly over all the time. And when they are taking off to the NW, they are very loud, and we ignore it. There are some NIMBY's, but they bought houses close to the base, their problem. Today an An-124 took off over school, it was loud, but very unique!
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:48 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 10):
Come'on, dude... why do you need to say crap like this???

When you post this junk, you're making yourself just as crazy and nutty as the protesters you are angry at!

Those protesters are the same ones that are out there calling you a murderer for the job that you are doing in Iraq. I also said that I wanted it to drift off, not sink to the bottom of the ocean taking millions of lives along with it. Although if Cali did sink then there would be 52 less electoral votes for the Dems in the next election.
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RE: San Frans Asinine Anti-military Streak Is Back

Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:58 am

Not the first time. They didn't want the USS Iowa either for similar reasons.

I wrote this back then with a couple pictures of her sister ship, the USS New Jersey.

The Big J.

What more needs to be said? I was lucky enough to tour her at the Long Beach Naval Shipyard before she was refitted with some of the modern bells and whistles, and after those same bells and whistles had been added. I was privileged to tour the Mighty Mo in the same time frame but I never have toured the Iowa or Wisconsin-although I do know a "man of war's man" who is proud of his service aboard the Iowa.

At present the future home of the second Iowa is in limbo as the good people of San Francisco try and decide whether she should be berthed there as a museum and memorial to the soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen who gave, as Lincoln called it, "the last full measure of devotion".

Some feel that such an overt weapon should never have a place in the City by the Bay under any circumstances, and others would attempt to apply their own political and social context as a precondition to her berthing there.

She is what she is. Weapon, shrine, memorial to the young men whose bravery and courage we lesser mortals can only marvel at, a warning against the love of war, a marvel of the best technology of her time? All these things and more.

She is also a standard bearer for the people of the State of Iowa-we are enormously proud of her and the men who served so valiantly in her. If we had an ocean you can be quite sure that San Franciscans would never have been placed in the awkward position of deciding if they want this grey lady.
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