lincoln
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Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:25 am

Primarially targeted at the US readers, though I'm curious about the practice in other countries as well...

All through growing up in Southern California, I was warned that there were some states where Right on Red was not legal. Now that I'm doing a lot of travel with accompanying car rentals (Michigan, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, ...) I make a point of asking when I'm picking up the car and every time I've asked I get a look like I just asked if the sky was blue.

So does anyone know what states forbid Right on Red (not just a "No Turn on Red" sign at selected intersections, but a ban all together.

I'm also wondering (perhaps from the LEOs among us about any nuances... For example, I've always been taught that if the light is red, you come to a complete stop, check for traffic, and then execute the right turn. In Ohio I've seen a bunch of "Right on Red AFTER STOP" signs around Cleveland's suburbs--- does this mean at all of the other intersections (besides those with "No Turn on Red" signs) you do not have to come to a complete stop before turning?

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luv2fly
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:30 am

I think the "right on red" signs were before the law went into effect and are a hold over from that era. I believe most states enacted the "right on red" being allowed in the late 70's early 80's during one of the fuel crisis to elevate people sitting waiting for the light to change, thus wasting gas.

[Edited 2007-06-12 02:31:06]
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helvknight
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:34 am

I don't think I've seen right on red anywhere outside the US and Canada.

A pity because it really is a good idea.

There is one thing, typically in Europe the dwell times at traffic lights are far shorter than in the US where you can wait several minutes.
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GQfluffy
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:34 am

Keep in mind this is Wikipedia...but...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_turn_on_red

Quote:
All 50 states as well as the District of Columbia, Guam, and Puerto Rico have allowed right turns on red since January 1, 1980, unless a sign otherwise prohibits this...
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N231YE
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:35 am

I don't know, but it is a good idea that you're asking. I.E., fuzz-busters are illegal in Virginia, but not here in Ohio.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:38 am

Elliot Rd and I-10 in PHX/Tempe, AZ. Its impossible to see the oncoming traffic no matter which side of the overpass you are on at the stoplights coming off the freeway. But people still turn right on red even though there is a sign posted that says it's illegal.
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N1120A
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:42 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 5):
Elliot Rd and I-10 in PHX/Tempe, AZ. Its impossible to see the oncoming traffic no matter which side of the overpass you are on at the stoplights coming off the freeway. But people still turn right on red even though there is a sign posted that says it's illegal.

The thread is meant to pertain to where it is not posted, not where there is an express prohibition.
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jfk69
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:44 am

You may not turn right on red in any of the 5 boroughs of NY.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:50 am

Unless signs show it's forbidden, it is generally allowed to turn right with a red light in Costa Rica.

In the old East Germany, there are traffic lights that have a sign with a green arrow pointing to the right. This allows right turns with a red light. I don't know if it has spread out through the rest of Germany, but it was pretty convenient.
 
Duff44
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 9:51 am

They are not legal anywhere in Manhattan... I know that much.

As for a large-scale prohibition in the USA, other than that one, I don't know of any. They're all pick-and-choose dpendent on the intersection.
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting Helvknight (Reply 2):
I don't think I've seen right on red anywhere outside the US and Canada.

A pity because it really is a good idea.

Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights. It's a pity they don't have enough of them here in the USA. Fortunately, they're starting to convert some traffic light intersections to roundabouts here in Wisconsin. Surprisingly, I saw none down in Texas where they have more room for them.

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max999
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 7):
You may not turn right on red in any of the 5 boroughs of NY.



Quoting Duff44 (Reply 9):
They are not legal anywhere in Manhattan... I know that much.

JFK69 is correct, it's all of New York City.

I believe it's prohibited because right turn on reds are dangerous to pedestrians; the person is forced to look backwards to watch for a car turning right even when the pedestrian has the right of way. It's only natural for NYC to have this law because of the huge amount of pedestrians.
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:09 am

In TUS right on red cannot be done when school children are in crosswalk, though that won't be a problem til August. You are also supposed to come to a complete stop before crossing the white line and turning.
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LTU932
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights. It's a pity they don't have enough of them here in the USA. Fortunately, they're starting to convert some traffic light intersections to roundabouts here in Wisconsin. Surprisingly, I saw none down in Texas where they have more room for them.

On the Circumvalación, the road that goes from La Uruca to Zapote, they've done the opposite, converting roundabouts to traffic lights intersections, but they stopped some time ago. IMO going from a roundabout to a standard multilane intersection will make things more difficult than they were. Then again, nobody at the Ministry of Public Transportation and Construction knows of proper planning since construction works got outsourced after introducing the Public Services Act (I don't exactly remember how it's called), which requires that the bidding companies have to go through a year and a half long contest to win the bid to do the actual construction work.
 
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights. It's a pity they don't have enough of them here in the USA. Fortunately, they're starting to convert some traffic light intersections to roundabouts here in Wisconsin. Surprisingly, I saw none down in Texas where they have more room for them.

Better than a 4way stop yes. Often better in other cases too, however at busy intersections they can be a bit of a pain... we have lots here in NZ and for the most part they are great.

Quoting Helvknight (Reply 2):
I don't think I've seen right on red anywhere outside the US and Canada.

Parts of Australia allow left on a red (since drive on the left so effectively the same thing)
we don't have it in New Zealand tho. Its a good idea... stops people needlessely waiting at intersections.
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lincoln
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:30 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
Fortunately, they're starting to convert some traffic light intersections to roundabouts here in Wisconsin. Surprisingly, I saw none down in Texas where they have more room for them

Most American drivers are completely baffled by the Roundabout (a/k/a traffic circle) and have a really hard time coping with them... I hate the ones (near my office East of Cleveland) where there is a stop sign at the approach... you have to come to a complete stop and then accelerate into traffic coming around a corner... and my car doesn't accellerate that well. The ones that are simply a yield are very nice, however... I would like to see more of them, but like I said most drivers seem to be confused by them.

Then aparently Cleveland's traffic engineers don't really comprehend the proper application of a Traffic Circle because there are a few very strange examples... like this one with two stop lights and a road running through the center:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...086&spn=0.004292,0.00825&z=17&om=1

Or this one where the backup from traffic lined up at the light for E.105th frequently blocks the circle, and traffic in the circle is expected to yield to traffic entering the circle...except for the one side that has a stop sign...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=e...42&spn=0.002145,0.004125&z=18&om=1

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vikkyvik
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:31 am

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 12):
In TUS right on red cannot be done when school children are in crosswalk, though that won't be a problem til August. You are also supposed to come to a complete stop before crossing the white line and turning.

You have to come to a full stop everywhere in the US. And you're not supposed to turn when anyone is in the crosswalk, (maybe you can once they clear your lane, I forget the actual rule).

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):

Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights. It's a pity they don't have enough of them here in the USA. Fortunately, they're starting to convert some traffic light intersections to roundabouts here in Wisconsin. Surprisingly, I saw none down in Texas where they have more room for them.

Rotaries (roundabouts if you want) are a fairly Northeastern phenomenon, as far as I've seen. We have plenty of them up here in Massachusetts, and New England in general. Problem is, a lot of folks seem to not know how to negotiate them.

Then again, I almost got hit by someone who didn't wait their turn at a 4-way stop today....Maybe having rotaries is asking for too much....

If I remember correctly, in the Netherlands, a car entering the rotary has the right of way; is that correct? It's the opposite here in the States. Dunno why I seem to remember that....
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:36 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 14):
Parts of Australia allow left on a red (

We have those, too. You can turn left on red from a one-way street onto another one-way street.

I get quite annoyed when people won't turn left when there's absolutely no traffic coming from the right. I honk and they just sit there totally oblivious that I'm behind them (sometimes in an ambulance when lights and sirens on).
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N231YE
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:44 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 15):

University Circle = Evil.

One of those few problem spots around Cleveland.
 
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 16):
in the Netherlands, a car entering the rotary has the right of way

In the UK, vehicles already in the roundabout have the right-of-way. Those enter must give way.



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flymia
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights. It's a pity they don't have enough of them here in the USA. Fortunately, they're starting to convert some traffic light intersections to roundabouts here in Wisconsin.

Yes roundabouts are a great thing, but right turn on red is even better. I have been noticing a few more roundabouts here in Miami, they are becoming more common in the states. But there are only a few real roundabouts in Miami in some of the older portions of the city and they work great there.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 17):
We have those, too. You can turn left on red from a one-way street onto another one-way street.

Yes we are allowed to turn left on a red light from a one way street to another one way street. But since he is talking about Australia making a left turn on red is equal to are right turn on red since they have right hand drive cars in Australia like in the UK.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 17):
I get quite annoyed when people won't turn left when there's absolutely no traffic coming from the right. I honk and they just sit there totally oblivious that I'm behind them (sometimes in an ambulance when lights and sirens on).

Me too. Some people dont know they are allowed to do this.
Another thing that is annoying at least in Miami-Dade County is when someone is at an intersection with a green light making a left turn but they dont move up into the intersection so they just wait there and dont move and than the light turns red. In Miami you are allowed to pull up block the intersection and than proceed with your turn even if the light is red.
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights.

Agreed, but where would you build them in crowded cities, like NYC?

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 15):
like this one with two stop lights and a road running through the center:

We have that in D.C. as well, but I forget the exact whereabouts.  bomb 
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AirframeAS
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:02 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
The thread is meant to pertain to where it is not posted, not where there is an express prohibition.

Thats not what the thread starter said in his original post. Re-read it again. He states:

Quoting Lincoln (Thread starter):
not just a "No Turn on Red" sign at selected intersections, but a ban all together.



Quoting Lincoln (Thread starter):
does this mean at all of the other intersections (besides those with "No Turn on Red" signs) you do not have to come to a complete stop before turning?



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):

DANG! That looks dangerous and confusing!  redflag 
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:08 am

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 20):
Another thing that is annoying at least in Miami-Dade County is when someone is at an intersection with a green light making a left turn but they dont move up into the intersection so they just wait there and dont move and than the light turns red.

Most places have laws making it illegal to stop or block an intersection. In the UK, they actually mark their box intersections with yellow cross-hatching to remind drivers where NOT to stop.

Big version: Width: 288 Height: 384 File size: 40kb


Blocking an intersection in such a manner is also dangerous and really pisses off emergency vehicle drivers.
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tz757300
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:12 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 23):
In the UK, they actually mark their box intersections with yellow cross-hatching to remind drivers where NOT to stop.

I love that idea. It seems during the summer when a whole bunch of tourists drive down here they don't have a clue that intersections can't be blocked and I know one near me that gets blocked at every single light change. This would give them a clue to, duh, DONT DO IT!
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pacifica
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:20 am

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet...

IIRC it is illegal to turn right on a red on the entire Island of (Isle de) Montreal, although I'm pretty sure it's okay in the rest of the province.
 
lincoln
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 18):
University Circle = Evil.

One of those few problem spots around Cleveland.

I would subtract the word "few" there  Smile University Circle can be either terifying and sheer hell (Monday-Friday 4:00 PM to 6:00 PM or so) but the rest of the time it's not horrible you just have to pay particularly close attention to what's going on -- I live at E. 55 and N. Marginal but I eat at Jimmy John's on Coventry far too often so I do the MLK-Univeristy Circle drive several times a week. I do think that there is probably a better solution for it, though.

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lincoln
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 23):
In the UK, they actually mark their box intersections with yellow cross-hatching to remind drivers where NOT to stop.

Hey I've always wondered what that ment, along with the squiggly edge lines that I've periodically seen in photos of (I think) Europe... It's amazing how you can ask one question and in the process have others answered!  Smile

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Lan_Fanatic
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:34 am

In Chile you can turn right on red light only when permitted by this sign.



It is a relatively recent practice and it certainly is a good one.
 
flymia
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:34 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 23):
Blocking an intersection in such a manner is also dangerous and really pisses off emergency vehicle drivers.

Well its not exactly dangerous as long as you make sure you go when you know the oncoming cars are going to stop. and for emergency vehicles if they are coming into you and you have to get out of the way I guess you just have to wait for the traffic to stop at the light and get out of the way of the emergency vehicle way. I never been in that situation. I have been in situations where I had to climb over a sidewalk to let some Lincoln Town Car police car get through traffic. And twice I have helped some emergency vehicles get through intersections when other drivers panic and just stopped and did not move. Its intresting to see how some people respond to lights and sirens. Some people just dont do anything and others actually get out of the way.
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:52 am

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 27):
Hey I've always wondered what that ment, along with the squiggly edge lines that I've periodically seen in photos of (I think) Europe

They're to indicate the approach to a zebra crossing, which are identified by their flashing yellow ball lights. North Americans call them uncontrolled crosswalks. Pedestrians have the right of way at zebra crossings. Vehicles may not park on the wavy lines or overtake within them.



Zebra crossings are not to be confused with pelican and puffin crossings, which are controlled by traffic and pedestrian signal lights. Their approaches also feature wavy line road markings.





[Edited 2007-06-12 05:07:22]
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vikkyvik
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):
In the UK, vehicles already in the roundabout have the right-of-way. Those enter must give way.

Well aware of that. That's why I mentioned the Netherlands. There were also some T-intersections there where the car making a right turn had the right of way, and the car going straight had to yield. Just differing conventions, I guess.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 17):
We have those, too. You can turn left on red from a one-way street onto another one-way street.

I think those have to be specifically sign-posted (at least here in Massachusetts). I go through an intersection frequently where it is posted "Left on Red after Stop". Not sure how that works everywhere, though.
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:56 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 8):
In the old East Germany, there are traffic lights that have a sign with a green arrow pointing to the right. This allows right turns with a red light

This green arrow gives you exactly the same rights as you have in North America when you have red.

Quoting Pacifica (Reply 25):
IIRC it is illegal to turn right on a red on the entire Island of (Isle de) Montreal, although I'm pretty sure it's okay in the rest of the province.

True. In Montreal it's forbidden because of "protection of pedestrians". Too bad I got almost run over twice last time in Montreal. Once it was a rice lady (quite cute) who was too busy yapping to the cell phone that she couldn't see the pedestrian crossing...The second one was a riceman turning left who couldn't wait until I cross the intersection...
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:57 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 30):

Boulder, Colorado has alot of those at every major crosswalk around the University of Colorado. I'm referring to the top picture you posted. Very different indeed when I was in Colorado last month, and useful too!!
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stlgph
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:33 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Thread starter):
So does anyone know what states forbid Right on Red (not just a "No Turn on Red" sign at selected intersections, but a ban all together.

A great deal of places in Omaha, Nebraska and Lincoln, Nebraska.

All intersections coming off of I-235 in Des Moines and West Des Moines, Iowa.
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ACDC8
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 2:46 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 8):
In the old East Germany, there are traffic lights that have a sign with a green arrow pointing to the right. This allows right turns with a red light. I don't know if it has spread out through the rest of Germany, but it was pretty convenient.

You're starting to see more and more of them all over Germany now. About time too! This is one thing I've always had difficulties adjusting too after I spend time in Canada and then go to Germany or the other way around.
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itsjustme
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:26 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Thread starter):
I'm also wondering (perhaps from the LEOs among us about any nuances... For example, I've always been taught that if the light is red, you come to a complete stop, check for traffic, and then execute the right turn. In Ohio I've seen a bunch of "Right on Red AFTER STOP" signs around Cleveland's suburbs--- does this mean at all of the other intersections (besides those with "No Turn on Red" signs) you do not have to come to a complete stop before turning?

Typically, when you see a sign indicating "Right Turn on Red After Stop", they're usually at an intersection where a green right turn arrow is also installed. The "Right Turn on Red After Stop" sign tells drivers it's lawful to turn right on a red when the green arrow isn't illuminated as long as they come to a complete stop prior to doing so (with the green arrow illuminated you don't need to stop prior to completing your turn).

Also, just a heads up when you plan on driving in states whose traffic laws you're not familiar with. The excuse, "I'm not from here, I didn't know" doesn't fly with judges. So, do yourself a favor and take a few minutes to bone up on the traffic laws when driving in areas you're not familiar with.
 
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:45 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 14):
Parts of Australia allow left on a red (since drive on the left so effectively the same thing)

Sorry Zkpilot but left on red is totally prohibited in all of Australia, unless it is authorised by a sign at the intersection (National Uniform Road Rules, and a bloody long time comming they have been too!). Its a fairly recent development and before that it was totally prohibited. Such signs are few and far between in Sydney.

For a real heart stopper you should try Melbourne's right turn from the LEFT lane! Its unbelivable! Its so right turning traffic does not block trams, which is reasonable enough, but this traffic turning right from your left is plain unnerving.

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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:14 pm

Quoting Lincoln (Thread starter):
Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

AFAIK, it's not allowed in Sweden.

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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:18 pm

Yes, there is a blanket prohibition on RTOR (Right Turn on Red) in NY City unless otherwise posted. In most areas of the USA, one can do a RTOR unless there is a sign "No Right Turn On Red".
As to Roundabouts, we call them circles here in New Jersey. They were common on major divided state roads, but in the 1980's, the huge increases in traffic, the difficulties of and huge numbers of accidents by intersecting traffic started to kill them off. They reamin on some 2-lane undivided streets as 'traffic calmers' or a holdover of the past and where they are still usable as to traffic volume.
 
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:20 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights. It's a pity they don't have enough of them here in the USA.

They have one near my house and there is at least one wreck a day. They are considering its removal. Unless they are common and a part of the drivers test, all they do is confuse people and cause trouble.


Anyway, I remember in Drivers Ed in 1980 they were saying it would soon be "Right on red in all 50 states", that was the phrase they used when it was implemented.

Unless there is a sign that says it is not allowed, like u-turns, its OK.

What I didnt like was in Rolling Meadows IL north of Chicago they had signs that based whether or not you could turn left or right based on time of day. Unless you had a clock or watch, you were screwed.
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iflyatldl
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:28 pm

IIRC. on the island of Montreal and some of the South Shore Boroughs(I have to remember that when I'm home driving). Here in ATL (and in Georgia, for that matter), unless it's posted, its OK.  Smile
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AirPacific747
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:28 pm

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 3):
Keep in mind this is Wikipedia...but...

It also seemed to be legal in British Columbia, BC.

As the wikipedia article shows, we have those 'right turn' arrows as well here, but usually it is not legal, only if there is a green arrow...
 
Banco
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:43 pm

Turning left on red is completely banned in Britain. However, the traffic lights do often have left turn green filters at junctions instead.
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GerbenYYZ
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:44 pm

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 31):
Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):
In the UK, vehicles already in the roundabout have the right-of-way. Those enter must give way.

Well aware of that. That's why I mentioned the Netherlands. There were also some T-intersections there where the car making a right turn had the right of way, and the car going straight had to yield. Just differing conventions, I guess.

In the Netherlands, traffic that is in the roundabout has the right of way, traffic wanting to enter has to give right of way to those already in there.

I think roundabouts are a great idea, I wish we have more of these in Canada, they're great to keep traffic moving (instead of a 4-way stop), and they also serve as speed control.
 
deltadc9
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:57 pm

Quoting GerbenYYZ (Reply 44):
In the Netherlands, traffic that is in the roundabout has the right of way, traffic wanting to enter has to give right of way to those already in there.

I think roundabouts are a great idea, I wish we have more of these in Canada, they're great to keep traffic moving (instead of a 4-way stop), and they also serve as speed control.

The problem arises when you are in a 2 lane roundabout. If you stay in the outer lane and you do not exit at the next outlet, you can cause a wreck because someeon from the inside lane might turn.

If they are not very common, noone will know the rules and it will be like the one near my house, chaos. All the yield signs are knocked down almost daily by people who expect to keep going and have to evade stopped cars, the curbs are busted up by the constant pounding of tire rims from people who dont know to slow down, and the sound of screeching tires can be heard 24/7.

Whoever decided that one roundabouot in a city of 230,000 was a good idea is either stupid or sadistic.

You either commit and convet a lot of problem intersections and communicate the rules and enforce them, or you live with standard intersections.
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Banco
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:05 am

DeltaDC9, that's only because you aren't used to them. We have roundabouts all over the place in the UK, and no real problems. I would imagine it's the same in Europe. In fact, people usually rant about 4 way junctions where they could have put a roundabout in rather than traffic lights, to keep the traffic moving.
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:37 am

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 40):
They have one near my house and there is at least one wreck a day. They are considering its removal. Unless they are common and a part of the drivers test, all they do is confuse people and cause trouble

Then the drivers are idiots. I don't see what's so difficult about them. I drove my first roundabouts while in England and had no problems. When I came to the USA, I just had to do it in mirror image. No problem. No more difficult than backing a trailer into a driveway. Like I said, it just requires a very small amount of logic and common sense.
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David L
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:38 am

Quoting Lincoln (Thread starter):
So does anyone know what states forbid Right on Red (not just a "No Turn on Red" sign at selected intersections, but a ban all together.



Quoting JFK69 (Reply 7):
You may not turn right on red in any of the 5 boroughs of NY.

My only experience of driving in the USA was in NJ and NYC. I knew they had opposite rules about turning right on red but I could never remember which was which... so, for the first few days, where there was no sign, I just waited until the person behind honked and hoped they weren't mucking me about. The idea that it isn't allowed where there are lots of pedestrians crossing makes sense.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 16):
If I remember correctly, in the Netherlands, a car entering the rotary has the right of way; is that correct? It's the opposite here in the States. Dunno why I seem to remember that....



Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 31):
There were also some T-intersections there where the car making a right turn had the right of way, and the car going straight had to yield.

There are some countries where traffic coming from the right has priority unless otherwise indicated. In many of those countries roundabouts are exceptions but in others, such as the Netherlands, apparently, the rule doesn't exclude roundabouts so it's not quite as illogical as it seems.

As mentioned above, there's no left turn on red, as such, in the UK, unless there's a green filter light. We have green filter lights for turning right, as well, but only when the oncoming traffic has been stopped by a red light. I thought those had been present in (West) Germany for years (e.g. in the 1970s) but one of the earlier posts makes me wonder if it's more recent than that.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 23):
In the UK, they actually mark their box intersections with yellow cross-hatching to remind drivers where NOT to stop.

Though you can stop in the box if you're turning right, your exit route is clear and you're only being held up by oncoming traffic.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):

Yes, the Mother of all roundabouts. It may work well for those familiar with it but I have no intention of going anywhere near it.  wideeyed 
 
qr332
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RE: Where Can You Not Turn Right On Red?

Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting Helvknight (Reply 2):
I don't think I've seen right on red anywhere outside the US and Canada.

A pity because it really is a good idea

Here in Qatar, there is always a separate "road" that allows you to turn right. This'll give you an idea:

(If if doesn't show up: http://static3.bareka.com/photos/med...408702/ramada-signal-ring-road.jpg )

There is a slip road for turning right, three lanes for going straight and two dedicated lanes for turning left. All of the traffic light intersections here are like that; there is no turning right on red or going forward when the light turns green and only turning left when you have a chance.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
Roundabouts are a better idea than traffic lights. It's a pity they don't have enough of them here in the USA. Fortunately, they're starting to convert some traffic light intersections to roundabouts here in Wisconsin. Surprisingly, I saw none down in Texas where they have more room for them.

Roundabouts are great in areas without much traffic, but they are hell when there is. Doha has hundreds of them, and recently they have been converting them like crazy to traffic signals because in high traffic areas, they cause a lot of congestion.

Quoting Vikkyvik (Reply 16):
f I remember correctly, in the Netherlands, a car entering the rotary has the right of way; is that correct? It's the opposite here in the States. Dunno why I seem to remember that....

I think that makes them traffic circles. In traffic circles, those entering have right of way while with roundabouts, those inside the roundabout have right of way.
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