S12PPL
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Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:25 am

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/20...s%2Fwears_drug_sign.php&frame=true

This father decided to make his son wear a sign to school to announce to all that he does drugs, after catching him in the act. Not a bad idea, actually....
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stlgph
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:29 am

Yeah. Great idea. So next time the cops want to bust someone, they know where to go ... *AND* nail the parents to boot.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:48 am

The father said: "I'm not doing this to humiliate my son, I'm doing it because I love him." How is it not humiliation? There are far better ways to show your love for your child than parading him around in front of the school with a sign saying he was bad. I'm glad the school principal put a stop to it.
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airfoilsguy
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:49 am

Great, one less person we will have to worry about in prison or dead. Would be nice to see more parents take an interest in disciplining the kids.
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ZakHH
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:31 am

And so practical. Now the other kids know whom to ask when they don't know where to get drugs.
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stlgph
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:32 am

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 4):

Prom King's been decided.
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IFEMaster
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
How is it not humiliation?

It is humiliation, but given that it hopefully teaches the child to connect bad behaviour with an unpleasant consequences, I'm fine with that.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
There are far better ways to show your love for your child than parading him around in front of the school with a sign saying he was bad.

See above. I'm not a father, but if I was, I would hope that the love I have for my child would extend to wanting him/her to learn the connection between action and consequence. Be good, nice things happen. Be bad, unpleasant things happen.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
I'm glad the school principal put a stop to it.

There are far too many people in the world who are afraid of letting a child get their feelings hurt. Getting our feelings hurt is what moulds us, teaches us, strengthens us, and toughens us up.

Well done dad, I say.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:45 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 6):
There are far too many people in the world who are afraid of letting a child get their feelings hurt. Getting our feelings hurt is what moulds us, teaches us, strengthens us, and toughens us up.

I think this goes further than just getting one's feelings hurt. This was a public mocking of a minor at the hands of a parent. What if the dad was tired of the kid wetting his bed? Should he be paraded around town with a sandwich board telling the world he wets the bed? There are better ways to handle this than taking advantage of your kid.
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IFEMaster
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
What if the dad was tired of the kid wetting his bed?

Apples and Oranges, Westy. The kid took drugs deliberately, knowing full well it was wrong. I've never heard of a kid deliberately wetting the bed and hoping to get away with it.
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S12PPL
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
What if the dad was tired of the kid wetting his bed? Should he be paraded around town with a sandwich board telling the world he wets the bed?



Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 8):
Apples and Oranges, Westy.

Exactly. This is a case of a kid using drugs, not a kid with a psychological or physical problem. I would disagree with a kid being led around town with a sign calling him a bed wetter.

The kid was dumb enough to let himself be caught. He deserved it in my mind.
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UnknownUser
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:31 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
What if the dad was tired of the kid wetting his bed? Should he be paraded around town with a sandwich board telling the world he wets the bed? There are better ways to handle this than taking advantage of your kid.

Westy must have been a bed wetter. I think we can make a pretty logical guess how his parents tried to fix it...  scratchchin 
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jamesbaldwyn
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:48 am

Looks as if it worked.
 
DC10extender
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:50 am

If they did that to everyone who did drugs at my school, they would run out of sidewalk.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To Schoo

Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:41 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 8):
Apples and Oranges, Westy. The kid took drugs deliberately, knowing full well it was wrong. I've never heard of a kid deliberately wetting the bed and hoping to get away with it.

Deliberate or not, any good parent knows not to humiliate their kids in public.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/schoolgat...mhome/content/2goodbehaviour.shtml

"Never humiliate your child in public - they'll only resent you. Remember, the way you discipline needs to build their self-esteem, not knock it back."

Quoting UnknownUser (Reply 10):
Westy must have been a bed wetter.

Oh stop being a child. It was a situation that popped into my head as a childhood problem that some parents need help with dealing with.
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767Lover
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:29 pm

I don't think the punishment was out of hand. As for humiliation, this event was a blip in the kid's life. He will be humiliated in plenty of other ways as he develops.

My dad once made me telephone one of his friends and apologize for being rude. I was about 12 years old. I was scared to death to do it, and felt really embarrassed, but once I got it over with, it was no big deal and it didn't scar me. In fact, the only reason I even remember it now was that I was trying to think if my parents ever humiliated me on purpose.

I believe that kids are more resilient than we give them credit for.
 
Fly2HMO
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:29 pm

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 6):

Well done dad, I say.

 checkmark 

It's becoming rarer and rarer to see parents actually discipline their kids today... Just go to toys-r-us or wal mart or wherever and see all the parents with all the whiny little brats kicking and screaming for a stupid toy they want, and all the parents ever do is say "shhhh". Ya right like, thats gonna do much  Yeah sure

I got my fair share of woopins' and other forms a reprehension from my parents, when young, but I learned quickly, and was extremely well behaved and always acted more mature than my peers, I even still do at times.

But Was I scarred for life? No. Do I hate my parents? No. Do I have any traumatic memories? No.

Parents today need to grow a pair of testicles and a pair of boobs and quit thinking that spanking every now and then is synonymous with child abuse.

'Nuf said.
 
S12PPL
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:24 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
Oh stop being a child. It was a situation that popped into my head as a childhood problem that some parents need help with dealing with.

And you never act like a child....
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ADXMatt
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:00 pm

I would rather walk around school with a sign then spend a few weeks at a juvinile detention center.

What would have happened if the Police caught him instead of his father? I think it would have been worse then this.

To the people on here who thought this was wrong what punishment would you have given? or would you have asked the kid for a light?
 
seb146
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
The father said: "I'm not doing this to humiliate my son, I'm doing it because I love him."

There was a boy here in Portland years ago who was at the mall and had to go to the bathroom. He went in, peed on the seat and somehow, his mother found out. I don't remember if they went into the ladies room together or what that situation was. Anyway, she made him wear a sign around the mall saying he did and made him feel like a complete heel for peeing on the seat. He ended up a few years later robbing convenience stores and shooting several people. IMO, public humiliation does not work, it only makes things worse.

Here's an idea for all the parents out there: Try getting involved in your kid's lives BEFORE this kind of thing happens. Before they have the pipe in their hand. Before they have the gun in their hand Before the police get involved. Oh, wait.... then, you would have to take some responsibility for your kid's actions. Why are people so afraid to take responsibility?

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AeroWesty
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 18):
Here's an idea for all the parents out there: Try getting involved in your kid's lives BEFORE this kind of thing happens. Before they have the pipe in their hand. Before they have the gun in their hand Before the police get involved.

Exactly. It's really just a simple thing. Having to resort to humiliating a child in public is nothing other than the sign of a failed parent.
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
The father said: "I'm not doing this to humiliate my son, I'm doing it because I love him." How is it not humiliation?

It's not humiliation solely for humiliation's sake - that's the difference. This is a textbook example of negative reinforcement at work.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
Deliberate or not, any good parent knows not to humiliate their kids in public.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/schoolgat...mhome/content/2goodbehaviour.shtml

"Never humiliate your child in public - they'll only resent you. Remember, the way you discipline needs to build their self-esteem, not knock it back."

Different story entirely when you're talking about drug or alcohol abuse. It's not self-esteem (or lack thereof) driven behavior.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:53 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 20):
It's not humiliation solely for humiliation's sake - that's the difference. This is a textbook example of negative reinforcement at work.

The thing about kids is that their minds aren't always developed enough to tell the difference all the time. Kids grow up with an innate belief that they can always look to their parents for love, support and protection. There comes a time in one's life when you recognize that not everything your parents did was always in your best interest. For some this comes as a shock, for others it's something they don't pay much attention to, and look at the good things their parents did for them instead. But the point remains, parents don't always do everything in their kid's best interest, even though their kids expect them to.

To publicly humiliate those who do look up to you for guidance, validation, and as a role model, is probably one of the cruelest things you can do to a developing mind, no matter what the motivation behind it may be. To express one's "love" in the form of humiliation is macabre.
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TheCol
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To Schoo

Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:10 am

I agree with Westy. Most kids that do drugs, do it to rebel against authority. This kind of punishment will only make those kids resent their parents more, and they'll go right back at it. The point of punishment is to make an individual afraid and blatantly aware of the consequences. That obviously won't work if a kid is too pissed off to care, and there's nothing that makes a person more pissed off than getting humiliated by someone they trust.
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DeltaAVL
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 6):
Well done dad, I say.

I'd like to see this done much more often, personally. While it's definitely humiliation, it gets the point across, not only to the son, but also to his classmates.

Of course, if I was a drug user, my stance would probably be entirely different. But I'm not.

I'd like to hear ANCFlyer's stance on the issue.
"We break, We bend, With hand in hand, When hope is gone, Just hang on." -Guster
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 2:18 am

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 23):
Of course, if I was a drug user, my stance would probably be entirely different. But I'm not.

It appears the thread-starter himself has a much different tune to play on the subject when he's the target, so anything's possible. My only problem with the example under scrutiny in this thread is that it's a parent doing it to a minor child. When you're an adult, well, you're out in the world and should expect anything.
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ORFflyer
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:20 am

Quoting S12PPL (Reply 9):
The kid was dumb enough to let himself be caught.

No - he was dumb enough to do it in the first place.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 19):
Having to resort to humiliating a child in public is nothing other than the sign of a failed parent.

I have to disagree with you here Westy. Not all parents of bad kids "failed" Sometimes it takes more than regular parenting to get messages across to today's youth. The kids today have a complete sense of entitlement, rather than responsibility. Kids today seem to think they are "owed" everything, and that they don't have to account for their actions. While I'm not completely agreeing with the actions of the father in this story, I'm certainly not ready to completely disagree with him either.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To Schoo

Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:23 am

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 25):
The kids today have a complete sense of entitlement, rather than responsibility. Kids today seem to think they are "owed" everything, and that they don't have to account for their actions.

I keep hearing this "entitlement" issue as an excuse by parents to allow their kids to act out of line. I grew up with plenty of kids whose parents would have been able to indulge them in every material fantasy they could ever dream up, yet they didn't, their parents instilled a sense of responsibility in them instead. I don't have kids of my own, of course, so I don't always understand the pressures parents are under, but one thing is known--to act out sado-masochistic rituals (such as public humiliation) on the non-consenting is "deviant" behavior. For a parent to act in a deviant manner towards their child is unconscionable.

As always, I'm open to having my mind changed on this issue, but I haven't seen any convincing arguments for it. Parents not teaching responsibility and the difference between right and wrong to a child is the parent's fault, not the child's.
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Yellowstone
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:56 am

Not to derail the debate over public humiliation as punishment, but I'm not sure the father's punishment would be that humiliating, depending on the circumstances. The kid's OxyContin usage could be a source of embarrassment, but smoking marijuana (especially if it is only in moderation) is considered socially acceptable by many, if not most, of today's teenagers. If I smoked a joint, I wouldn't be embarrassed about other people knowing that (only a bit worried that the cops would find out).
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TheCol
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 25):
Kids today seem to think they are "owed" everything,

Kid's wouldn't think that way if they had to actually work for the stuff they want. Heck, I never got an allowance from my parents. If I wanted money to buy something, I had to earn it.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
DeltaAVL
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:34 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 24):
My only problem with the example under scrutiny in this thread is that it's a parent doing it to a minor child.

Right, but the "minor child" also happens to be the parent's child. And the parent has authoritative rule over most of the child's actions until he turns 18, so I don't see a problem. Plus, the child saying he'd never do drugs again is supporting the parent's case.
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767Lover
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 26):
--to act out sado-masochistic rituals (such as public humiliation) on the non-consenting is "deviant" behavior.

I would not characterize the event described in the news article as a sado-masochistic act. For one thing, it's not like the parent was deriving pleasure from the kid going through this.


I don't think we can evaluate the impact of this one event on the life of a kid. It all depends on the relationship between this parent and this child, and a million little interactions over the 18 years. Some parents would be able to do this and have the kid understand why they were doing it.

In general, as long as a parent isn't putting a child in harm's way, I try not to judge how parents choose to discipline their children. I can't opine on something I have no experience with.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:31 am

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 29):
Plus, the child saying he'd never do drugs again is supporting the parent's case.

We don't know the full extent of the kid's addiction, only that he was taking it for pleasure, selling it, and telling the world he was doing it on his MySpace page. Suddenly a news camera and microphone are in his face, what's he going to say in front of his father? What his dad wants to hear, of course. There needs to be more intervention than walking the kid in front of his school with a sandwich board. That doesn't remove addictive cravings for opiates, behaviors to secure it, or replace the easy money he was making through dealing.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 30):
I would not characterize the event described in the news article as a sado-masochistic act. For one thing, it's not like the parent was deriving pleasure from the kid going through this.

The parent received satisfaction from it, and that fits one of the definitions.

The whole situation is what it is. We've got a father who instead of addressing the cause of his son's addiction, and getting him appropriate treatment for it, is instead turning to his own version of "extreme" punishment (a word he used in the video). I'd go about it much differently.
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767Lover
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:04 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 31):
Quoting 767Lover (Reply 30):
I would not characterize the event described in the news article as a sado-masochistic act. For one thing, it's not like the parent was deriving pleasure from the kid going through this.

The parent received satisfaction from it, and that fits one of the definitions.

I think you're grasping at straws wtih that one.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:12 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 32):
I think you're grasping at straws wtih that one.

You're welcome to your opinion, of course, but your response doesn't do anything to convince me the act doesn't fit the definition.
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lehpron
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:27 am

Quoting IFEMaster (Reply 6):
There are far too many people in the world who are afraid of letting a child get their feelings hurt.

No, there is a way to do it moderately, just this PC crap goes out of control at times while other folks think it is okay to terrorize kids, to build their [own] character...  Yeah sure Right.

I'm all for punishment, but being made to carry a scarlet's letter will only teach the kid not to get caught next time.
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ScarletHarlot
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 34):
being made to carry a scarlet's letter

Hey! Don't you be giving away my letter to messed up druggie boys!  Wink
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NWADC9
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:19 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
The father said: "I'm not doing this to humiliate my son, I'm doing it because I love him." How is it not humiliation?

It's all in the matter of intent. He's doing this to punish him for doing something so stupid to himself; not to get revenge or out of anger.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
There are far better ways to show your love for your child than parading him around in front of the school with a sign saying he was bad.

"Son, I found out you're using drugs. Got some for me?  drunk "
"Son, I found this bag of dope under your bed. Give me a hug!"

This is a form of punishment to get the common sense that you shouldn't be doing drugs through his son's thick skull-not a lovefest at a Woodstock concert.
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AirTranTUS
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:17 pm

Children do not resent their parents forever. I was grounded for quite a long time after breaking our garage door (I guess they are not for hanging on while in operation) and then lying about it. I was angry at first, but I got over it.

Wearing a sign in this case could help the kid. Now in the case of peeing on the seat, that is overdoing it. I remember seeing a few months ago a mother making her son wear a sign because he littered. He had to wear the sign while picking up trash along the street. Doing drugs and littering are conscious decisions kids can say no do. If they break the law, punishments should be given out, and hopefully other kids saw the sign wearers and decided to not do drugs or litter.
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TheCol
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:26 pm

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 29):
Plus, the child saying he'd never do drugs again is supporting the parent's case.

Or he is lying and will try harder not to get caught next time.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
ORFflyer
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:34 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 26):
Parents not teaching responsibility

In a LOT of cases, this is absolutely true. And we could add a lot of teachers to the mix, but that's a different thread.  Wink

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 26):
Parents not teaching responsibility and the difference between right and wrong to a child is the parent's fault, not the child's.

TEACHING the difference between right and wrong is a parents responsibility - yes. Making the correct decisions from those lessons falls on the child. You have to hope they listened. In some cases, no matter how much you try as a parent, the child makes bad decisions.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 31):
The parent received satisfaction from it, and that fits one of the definitions.

I'm not sure you can come to that conclusion from the short video.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting DeltaAVL (Reply 23):
I'd like to hear ANCFlyer's stance on the issue.



Quoting S12PPL (Thread starter):
Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

It should read: "I'm Stupid".

Nuf said.
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DeltaAVL
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RE: Kid Doing Drugs? Make Him Wear A Sign To School

Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:33 pm

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 40):

It should read: "I'm Stupid".

Nuf said.

 bigthumbsup 

Excellent.
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