CastleIsland
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NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:09 am

In a follow-up to RJPieces' thread back in May: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/1613941/

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070620/ap_on_el_pr/bloomberg_politics

"After some six years as a Republican, the 65-year-old former CEO announced Tuesday that he has left the Republican Party and become unaffiliated in what many believe could be a step toward entering the 2008 race for president."

So it looks as though we'll have a potentially viable third-party candidate for the White House in 2008. I'll have to do my homework on this guy, as the two-party system has demonstrated its worthlessness for long enough, IMO.

Thoughts?

Edited to add link to RJPieces' thread from May.

[Edited 2007-06-20 17:10:40]
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
desertjets
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:19 am

First of all I honestly know very little about Bloomberg's politics or his stance on issues. Let alone his track record as mayor of NYC. Though I'll agree that it is worth doing some reading and investigating on that front.

Secondly it is a bit of a non-announcement in my mind. Seems to be me, by going unaffiliated, Bloomberg can sit back for the next 6 months or so, work on raising some money, and then lick his finger and stick it in the wind to see which way it is blowing..... and then make a decision to run and/or make his platform public. Frankly this makes me a little uncertain about him from the get go. I'd like to see him out stumping, even if it is unofficial, and making his platform made public sooner rather than later.

I suppose if he does jump in it will make things more interesting. IIRC Bloomberg is fairly wealthy and could, like Ross Perot, potentially self-finance a decent portion of his campaign. But I wouldn't doubt his ability to raise significant amounts of money to make a serious run. Which has its own implications for the 2008 Presidential campaign should he run.
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Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:24 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Thread starter):
So it looks as though we'll have a potentially viable third-party candidate for the White House in 2008.

Great.....NOT!

Quoting CastleIsland (Thread starter):
as the two-party system has demonstrated its worthlessness for long enough, IMO.

...and his candidacy will wont stop it either. All he'll do is win a lot of independents that would have voted Democrat and the end result? A Republican President.
This Bloomberg guy certainly benefited from the apparatus of the Democratic and Republican party. I seriously doubt he has any sort of 'Independent' or maverick credibility.
He is just anther rich New York with a larger than life ego.
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Falcon84
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
...and his candidacy will wont stop it either. All he'll do is win a lot of independents that would have voted Democrat and the end result? A Republican President.

Maybe. Maybe not. It's too soon to tell what his effect will be-or if he's even running. He could siphon off votes from conservative Democrats, and moderate Republicans at the same time, and his effect could be neutralized.

Way to early to read much into any of this.
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STT757
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 1):
his track record as mayor of NYC.

Outstanding to say the least, probably the most popular Mayor in modern NYC history.
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CastleIsland
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
All he'll do is win a lot of independents that would have voted Democrat and the end result? A Republican President.

From the article: "He supports gay marriage, abortion rights, gun control and stem cell research and hiked property taxes to help solve a fiscal crisis after the Sept. 11 attacks."

Sounds like a Republican to me.  Yeah sure

'Fly, of all people, I wouldn't expect you to support the status quo of US government; that is, the two-party grid-lock.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:13 am

CastleIsland:
What I meant was that a Republican would win if he ran. Bloomberg doesn't have a chance at winning.
As STT757 noted, he is a popular mayor and has done a good job as mayor. I think he should stay in New York.
It's easy to be a social liberal when you are the mayor of a big city.
My point is that he is hardly independent from the two major parties. He is just as much a part of the establishment as Giulani, Clinton, McCain, etc.
I have to wonder about someone that has changed party affiliations as frequently as he has.
He has changed political parties more than some women change there hairstyles.
I am sure Bloomberg is a decent guy but I don't see him as an outsider that would change Washington.
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767Lover
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:19 am

Superfly,

you are forgetting that Bloomberg has been a lifelong Democrat and only "switched" parties to run for mayor in 2001.


Anyway --not that this is an issue in my mind, personally -- but I doubt he will get elected because of the Israel factor. Our support of Israel is too controversial an issue at this time, and him being Jewish may affect him getting the liberal vote.

Edit: Sorry, you posted your response to C.I. before I finished this.

BTW, why are you so biased against rich people? Isn't Pelosi really wealthy too?

[Edited 2007-06-20 18:20:50]
 
CastleIsland
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
What I meant was that a Republican would win if he ran.

Yeah, I misunderstood. I don't necessarily agree, however.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
I have to wonder about someone that has changed party affiliations as frequently as he has.

What that means to me is that he has personal experience with both and doesn't like either. Sounds good to me.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
AeroWesty
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:29 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
All he'll do is win a lot of independents that would have voted Democrat and the end result? A Republican President.

That's not what happened in '92.  Wink
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Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:32 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 7):
him being Jewish may affect him getting the liberal vote.

 redflag 
WHAT?!?!?!  Wow!
Are just beging to get flamed or what?
Many liberals ARE Jewish and many not all Jewish voters are liberal. It's the Bible thumpers that are VERY conservative that would have issues voting for a Jewish person.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 7):
Our support of Israel is too controversial an issue at this time

 redflag 
The United States has always supported Israel and always will.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 8):
What that means to me is that he has personal experience with both and doesn't like either.

He switched to the Republican Party for his own political aspirations. The Democratic side was too crowded and it also earned him Giulani's endorsement.
Sounds like an opportunist to me.
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Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:34 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
That's not what happened in '92

...because Perot was a center-right Independent.
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AeroWesty
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:44 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
...because Perot was a center-right Independent.

We don't know where he's going to situate himself yet, what his platform will be, if he runs at all. Far too early to say that it's a Republican shoe-in if he runs.
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Mir
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:52 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
Sounds like an opportunist to me.

Name me a politician that isn't.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
dl021
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
He could siphon off votes from conservative Democrats, and moderate Republicans at the same time, and his effect could be neutralized.

This is true....he'd present a viable alternative to people who are giving Congress a lower rating than they're giving the President.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
Outstanding to say the least, probably the most popular Mayor in modern NYC history.

I don't know about that.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 7):
but I doubt he will get elected because of the Israel factor. Our support of Israel is too controversial an issue at this time, and him being Jewish may affect him getting the liberal vote.

I don't know if our nation is ready psychologically on either side of the political spectrum to elect a person running as a Jew. However if he runs as a no-nonsense billionaire with his own money and offers concrete solutions as well as a method for handling a partisan congress (look what happened to Jesse "The Body") he ought to get a serious vote count. As long as he doesn't start a new party.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
That's not what happened in '92

Yeah...Perot was more Libertarian than anything else. He siphoned Republican votes to a huge degree....not too many Democrats voted his way.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
Quoting 767Lover (Reply 7):
him being Jewish may affect him getting the liberal vote.


WHAT?!?!?!
Are just beging to get flamed or what?
Many liberals ARE Jewish and many not all Jewish voters are liberal. It's the Bible thumpers that are VERY conservative that would have issues voting for a Jewish person.

No...the liberal vote is not very interested in supporting Israel right now, which is causing some dissension in the Jewish democrat ranks. At least according to my friends and neighbors in our little microcosm of politics here (both Dem and Rep).

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
Sounds like an opportunist to me.

How the hell do you think he became a billionaire...he saw opportunity and took advantage...since when is that a bad thing? How else does any politician take advantage?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 11):
...because Perot was a center-right Independent.

Center? He was pretty far right....to the point of being a populist conservative/libertarian.
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Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 12):
We don't know where he's going to situate himself yet

Nor does he.

Quoting Mir (Reply 13):
Name me a politician that isn't.

I can't. In other words, he is just another politician and no reason for someone to think that he is some 'anti-two party' guy that's going to 'shake up' the system. Bloomberg will not be the 44th. President. His candidacy will not deny one of the two parties from winning the White House.
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767Lover
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
Are just beging to get flamed or what?
Many liberals ARE Jewish and many not all Jewish voters are liberal. It's the Bible thumpers that are VERY conservative that would have issues voting for a Jewish person.

I'll try to dig up an op/ed piece that ran a while back in the AJC from a Jewish guy about how a lot of Jews are voting Republican (and in his opinion, should do so.)

It happened to be written by a guy I know (a good friend of a friend of mine, who is also Jewish)
 
dl021
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):
His candidacy will not deny one of the two parties from winning the White House.

Strong prediction....you may be surprised.....I would be as well, but I'm not writing him off in this contest. He has enough money to outspend both parties combined without hurting himself too badly. His message would get out if he chose to do so. That makes a huge difference. The parties will be forced to employ serious grass roots campaigning if he joins up....they'll have to make sure their bases come out and hit hard for the middle that doesn't go elsewhere......it may make this election really interesting.
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Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:08 am

767Lover:
Don't waste your time. Rjpieces has been saying that in these boards for years. Election results and those elected to political office tell a different story and that is what I am going to go by.


DL021:
Would you support a tax & spending liberal that supports gay marriage, abortion rights, gun control and stem cell research?
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AeroWesty
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:10 am

CNN is reporting Bloomberg is not running for the presidency in '08.
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Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 19):
CNN is reporting Bloomberg is not running for the presidency in '08.

This month.

I am sure he'll enter the race at some point.
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Mir
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 14):
However if he runs as a no-nonsense billionaire with his own money and offers concrete solutions as well as a method for handling a partisan congress (look what happened to Jesse "The Body") he ought to get a serious vote count.

Which is what he will do. I didn't even know he was Jewish until somebody told me a few weeks ago. I guess the name Bloomberg should have tipped me off, but I really don't give a damn about the religions of politicians, so long as they keep it to themselves.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):
In other words, he is just another politician

Except that his money is self-made, and he could mount a big campaign without having to raise a penny. That separates him from the rest of the candidates - he doesn't have to take special interest money.

I like most of the things he's done for NYC, he's a good manager, and he has common sense. I'd be surprised if he won, but at least I could look at myself in the mirror if I voted for him.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:45 am

DLO21:
Sorry I missed your reply #14.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 14):
I don't know if our nation is ready psychologically on either side of the political spectrum to elect a person running as a Jew.

Is that just badly worded? He would be running as an 'Independent', not as the 'Jewish' guy.
I have no problem voting for a Jewish candidate and as you all know, I am very left.
I voted for Gore/Leibermann, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein, Tom Lantos, Howard Berman (when I lived in SoCal) as did most liberals has done.
I would be happy to see all of the above as President.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 14):
he'd present a viable alternative to people who are giving Congress a lower rating than they're giving the President.



Quoting DL021 (Reply 14):
(look what happened to Jesse "The Body") he ought to get a serious vote count.

He would certainly hurt the Democratic candidate in NH, ME, PA, DE, MI, OH, WI, MN and make CA, IL, OR, WA, CT and MD competitive while the Republican would be guaranteed all the red states and taking a plurality in some of the blue states I listed above. The final electoral count would definately put the Republican candidate over the needed 270 electoral votes.

Quoting Mir (Reply 21):
but at least I could look at myself in the mirror if I voted for him.

...and I could look in the mirror and be glad that I didn't vote for him, allowing a Republican to win in a plurality.

[Edited 2007-06-20 19:47:39]
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767Lover
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:46 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Election results and those elected to political office tell a different story and that is what I am going to go by.

Yeah, tell that to your hero Cynthia McKinney. Do I need to remind you of her 2002 loss against Denise Majette?
 
Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:49 am

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 23):
Yeah, tell that to your hero Cynthia McKinney. Do I need to remind you of her 2002 loss against Denise Majette?

I remember that race very well but as you know she lost credibility when she punched a security guard. Now you have Wank Johnson as your Congressman.
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Queso
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:03 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 5):
From the article: "He supports gay marriage, abortion rights, gun control and stem cell research and hiked property taxes to help solve a fiscal crisis after the Sept. 11 attacks."

Bloomberg dropping out of the GOP is a non-event because he was never a Republican anyway.

As far as his possible run for the Presidency, it's not even worth discussing. He is a loser, quite literally, in any plausible setup for the 2008 election. But I still hope he runs.
 
Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:13 am

Quoting Queso (Reply 25):
Bloomberg dropping out of the GOP is a non-event because he was never a Republican anyway.

As far as his possible run for the Presidency, it's not even worth discussing. He is a loser, quite literally, in any plausible setup for the 2008 election.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

The only people that would vote for him are a handful of moderates in the north that would hand there states electoral votes over to McCain, Romney, or who ever the GOP nominee is. Most Republicans aren't even going to consider Bloomberg.
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NWADC9
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:25 am

Bloomberg-another of the many RINOs in American politics. He'd be more fit to be in the Mama Knows Best Party with his silly rules. "Eat healthy! No Smoking! No drinking!" I don't need some stupid mayor telling me that. He should be running the city, not the citizens' lives.  Angry
Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
 
rjpieces
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:41 am

Nobody has mentioned Bloomberg's wealth so far....Conservative estimates place it at $5 billion...In reality, it could be closer to $15-$20 billion. If he is willing to spend $1 billion on a run, he will have much better chances than third-party candidates in the past. Ross Perot, though wealthy, did not spend nearly as much as Bloomberg is prepared to spend...

I wouldn't write him off just because of the third-party business. We are a two-party system, but look at the lack of accomplishments from both parties in the last few years. Most Americans are frustrated with the Government. I think the country is ripe for a third-party candidate...

Quoting DL021 (Reply 14):
I don't know if our nation is ready psychologically on either side of the political spectrum to elect a person running as a Jew.

I don't think that is an issue. It wasn't an issue in 2000...Gore/Lieberman did win the popular vote, but we all know how that turned out....In the 1970s, polls showed that something like 80% of Americans would vote for a qualified Jew for office...I imagine that number has gone up since then...

Quoting DL021 (Reply 14):
he liberal vote is not very interested in supporting Israel right now, which is causing some dissension in the Jewish democrat ranks.

You misuse the word liberal. Many hardcore liberals in Congress are pro-Israel....That being said, there are a growing number of anti-Israel Democrats, but that is another story. The point is that you can be very liberal and still be pro-Israel. Heck, the argument can and should be made that being liberal should mean being pro-Israel...How can you favor gay rights in the United States but not support the one country in the Middle East with equality for gays? How can you be in favor of civil rights in the United States but not support the one country in the Middle East with equal rights for all its citizens?

Anyway, I digress. But what does any of this have to do with Bloomberg running for President?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Don't waste your time. Rjpieces has been saying that in these boards for years.

I've been saying that an increasingly large number of Democrats are anti-Israel, which is true.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
767Lover
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
It's the Bible thumpers that are VERY conservative that would have issues voting for a Jewish person.

Not according to this guy.

Survey work done by [University of North Carolina sociologist --first name Christian] Smith supports Monsma�s assertion. Even as they hold onto strong positions against abortion and in favor of prayer in school, religious conservatives are actually considerably less likely to oppose, for example, a Jewish president than the American mainstream. They do tend to be far more negative about putting atheists and homosexuals in the highest office than the average American, but are also more open to having an African American in that post.

Source: http://www.joelkotkin.com/Religion/T...onservatism%20and%20the%20Jews.htm
 
Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:25 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 28):
You misuse the word liberal. Many hardcore liberals in Congress are pro-Israel....That being said, there are a growing number of anti-Israel Democrats, but that is another story. The point is that you can be very liberal and still be pro-Israel. Heck, the argument can and should be made that being liberal should mean being pro-Israel...How can you favor gay rights in the United States but not support the one country in the Middle East with equality for gays? How can you be in favor of civil rights in the United States but not support the one country in the Middle East with equal rights for all its citizens?

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
Yet the conservatives here like to ignore that fact or is just completely ignorant and just support Israel based Biblical fantasies.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 28):
I've been saying that an increasingly large number of Democrats are anti-Israel, which is true.

Very true. However, it has nothing to do with any contempt for Jews people or any Biblical significance. They see the Palestinians as the underdogs, oppressed and not given fair representation in Western news outlets.
Anti-Israel Democrats don't do well in their own parties primaries either. Just ask Earl Hilliard and Cynthia McKinney.


767Lover:
Sorry but that is just one guy and his rants. Just look at the overwhelming majority of elected Jewish leaders and those that elect them including myself. What party are they in? I see no signs of an exodus of Jewish voters to the Republican Party.


I am still perplexed by your comments about liberals having an issue voting for a Jewish candidate. Michael Bloomberg has a much better chance at winning the liberal leaning state of California than your conservative state of Georgia.

Here is a rather recent incident of how conservatives in Georgia feel about Jews. Luckily Max Burns had his ass handed to him on election day by a Democrat.


http://www.hfienberg.com/kesher/2003...mitism-stupidity-or-both-from.html


Rep. Max Burns, R-Ga., Monday apologized to Jewish leaders three weeks after a supporter made anti-Semitic remarks at a fundraiser, the Associated Press reported. Burns' phone call to a Jewish community group was in response to a Sept. 20 comment by businessman Jackie Sommers, who referred to Democrat Tony Center, who is Jewish, as "that Jew boy down in Savannah" at a rally for Burns in the freshman's hometown of Sylvania. Center was a candidate in the 12th District's Democratic primary last year and is considered a possible challenger to Burns next year. Burns' apology came several days after Sommers' comment was printed in the Savannah Morning News. "We felt he was sincere in his apology and [sincere in] feeling badly that he did not comment at the time," Sharon Paz, executive director of the Savannah Jewish Federation, told the Athens Banner-Herald. But Center said Burns should have distanced himself from Sommers' comments earlier. Burns said Monday he did not respond to the remarks publicly, but immediately confronted Sommers privately about them.


Whata f--king coward!  Wow!
Why couldn't Max Burns condemn those rabid anti-Jewish remarks on the spot in front of the voters?  scratchchin 
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dl021
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:01 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 18):
Would you support a tax & spending liberal that supports gay marriage, abortion rights, gun control and stem cell research?

No...but that's not my point. I'm good with stem cell research, and don't care who you sleep with as long as it's a consenting adult....the others are my sticking points.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
Is that just badly worded? He would be running as an 'Independent', not as the 'Jewish' guy.

I think you missed my point when I responded to another point....if he runs as a Jew then he's got problems...if he runs as a self-made billionaire then he's got potential. It's the same as if a Christian ran as a Christian first and all else second.....that makes people nervous...and I do believe that there are enough people uncomfortable with voting for a person of another faith (Jew, Muslim, Mormon...yeah but..or Buddhist) that it'd be very difficult if they made a big deal over their religion unless they were able to sell it as a real positive and sell their impartiality to other religions. That's going to apply to Democrats as well as Republicans.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 22):
The final electoral count would definately put the Republican candidate over the needed 270 electoral votes.

If there were three candidates getting electoral votes then the numbers change.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 28):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 14):
I don't know if our nation is ready psychologically on either side of the political spectrum to elect a person running as a Jew.

I don't think that is an issue. It wasn't an issue in 2000...Gore/Lieberman did win the popular vote, but we all know how that turned out....In the 1970s, polls showed that something like 80% of Americans would vote for a qualified Jew for office...I imagine that number has gone up since then...

See the above. If he runs as a Jew instead of running as an American or a self-made billionaire......anyone running primarily on their religious affiliation immediately marginalizes themselves and makes their candidacy about making a point rather than winning.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 28):
You misuse the word liberal. Many hardcore liberals in Congress are pro-Israel....That being said, there are a growing number of anti-Israel Democrats, but that is another story. The point is that you can be very liberal and still be pro-Israel.

Not really. I have seen plenty of Democrats who get angry at anyone who sides with Israel when they act in their own defence. There is a difference between a representative and a President, and if we're looking at hard facts there are plenty of Democrats who would immediately refuse to vote for a candidate running as a Jew because they feel like they'd be supporting the oppression of Palestineans. Let's not ignore the reality of the mass vote...it's made up of lots of little groups of people who both share values and don't share others.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 28):
...How can you favor gay rights in the United States but not support the one country in the Middle East with equality for gays? How can you be in favor of civil rights in the United States but not support the one country in the Middle East with equal rights for all its citizens?

You can't if you're being honest....but how many people on these threads want to support the PRC instead of Taiwan? How many are trying to say we should support the Sharia nations? Seriously.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 30):
I am still perplexed by your comments about liberals having an issue voting for a Jewish candidate. Michael Bloomberg has a much better chance at winning the liberal leaning state of California than your conservative state of Georgia.

Bloomberg would have problems in GA because he's:
A. An unrepentant Yankee who's not known here as a national hero (cachet carried by Giuliani).
B. Jewish, and I'm sorry to say it'd make a difference.
C. Pro-abortion
D. Pro-Gun control
E. OK with raising taxes.

He'd lose here for those reasons alone.

I was talking to two people yesterday. One made a comment to me concerning his impression that a certain writer who was selling us some books may as well be a Jew the way he gets money. The other guy listened to my description (given without preamble or explanation) and he agreed. One of these guys was from Georgia, and the other was from Hartford. Care to tell me how the location or region impacts religious prejudice?

BTW....I told both of them after they issued their comments that my mother is Jewish and they both started apologizing and explaining "it's nothing personal" and such......ignorance is still out there, and it cuts alot of different directions. It'd make an impact on someone running for President.

Who here thinks Obama has a chance? Muslim, black, mid-westerner? Seriously.....when are we going to be ready for a woman president? (That's more likely than a minority of some sort being elected....women are the majority).
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STT757
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:43 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
He is just as much a part of the establishment as Giulani, Clinton, McCain, etc.

No he's not, he's worth about $6-10 Billion. That's alot of "f#ck you" money. He can tell the lobbyists, the special interest groups, big business, Unions etc to get lost.
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Mir
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:18 pm

Here's the text of a speech he gave on the 18th, in which he was very critical of partisan politics: http://nyc.gov/portal/site/nycgov/me...7.html&cc=unused1978&rc=1194&ndi=1

Excerpt:

"It's become a contest to one-up the other side and to score points for the next election. Decisions in DC these days are more political and less issue-based than ever before, and the consequences have been disastrous.

"When you go to Washington now, you can feel a sense of fear in the air - the fear to do anything, or say anything, that might affect the polls, or give the other side an advantage, or offend a special interest.

"This is paralyzing our government - and it's leading our elected officials to push all the big, long-term problems onto future generations: health care, Social Security, budget deficits, global warming, immigration, you name it.

"Their inaction and partisan gridlock are destroying our relationships and reputation around the world.

"They are hurting our economic competitiveness, driving scientific and medical discoveries overseas, and jeopardizing our future as the land of hope and opportunity.

"They see the same problems we do - but instead of working to address their causes, and provide real, lasting solutions, they tinker around the edges, offering band-aids that do nothing to stop the bleeding, giving us platitudes and promises, but never the decisive and merit-based legislation and leadership we need. And then they blame the other side when the bleeding gets worse.

"Why do elected officials act this way? I think there's one primary answer. They become hooked on partisanship because it offers easy answers. And then it consumes them. It becomes their most important priority.

"We're talking about a serious and harmful addiction here - and unfortunately, there's no 'Promises' clinic for partisanship. (If there were, maybe they'd stop making so many empty promises.)

"The United States can't afford for this to continue. We need Washington to break its addiction, to end the gridlock, and to stop passing the buck to future generations. Leading from the front: It's what built America.

"But these days, the federal government isn't at the front - it's cowering in the back corner of the room, ducking responsibility and hoping no one notices. The fact is, if our country is going to meet the challenges of this new century, all of us who care more about progress than political parties have to take responsibility for ending this corrosive culture of partisanship.

"It's a waste of time pointing fingers and blaming the politicians in Washington - after all, we elected them. No, if we want to Washington to change - we, the individual voters they work for - have to hold them accountable."


It's a lengthy speech, but he makes some good points. And parts of it really do sound like a campaign speech.

-Mir
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Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:28 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 31):
....if he runs as a Jew then he's got problems...if he runs as a self-made billionaire then he's got potential.

OK so who is playing up his Jewish factor?
It's not the left. I think the GOP would love it if Bloomberg did run and played up the Jewish factor. I haven't heard him play this up at all.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 31):
I have seen plenty of Democrats who get angry at anyone who sides with Israel when they act in their own defence.............

...and here we go again.  faint 
DLO21 my friend, you can't out-smart Rjpieces on this topic. I am sure he has more knowledge in this area. Who are these people you speak of? Some angry Green Party member at the local coffee shop that hasn't worked there entire life? Trust me, if some one made a rabid anti-Jewish remark in a crowd to Congressman John Lewis, Sanford Bishop or just about any Democrat in Congress, they would have been scolded and flamed on the spot. Can't say that about fmr. Congressman Max Burns.
The updated GOP script is to pretend to be pro-Jewish as long as it's only playing up support for Israel but never give up believing with what is written in the Bible.  Yeah sure
Give it up my friend. This revised script is not helping the GOP with Jewish voters and donors. They are smart enough to see through this phony pandering. The votes speak for themselves.
As you have seen in your own district, anti-Jewish attitudes is NOT supported by most liberals/Democrats.
Again, ask Cynthia McKinney. Time to throw away that script my friend.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 31):
If there were three candidates getting electoral votes then the numbers change.

Well of course but he is NOT going to win a single state. The best he could do is take votes away from the Democratic nominee in light blue states. That's it!


Enough arguing about a guy who announced he isn't running anyway.
Good night!  wave 
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767Lover
Posts: 3254
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:30 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 30):
767Lover:
Sorry but that is just one guy and his rants. Just look at the overwhelming majority of elected Jewish leaders and those that elect them including myself. What party are they in? I see no signs of an exodus of Jewish voters to the Republican Party.

That post was referring to your comment about conservatives not wanting to vote for a Jewish president. By the way, a survey/study is not a "rant."

Anyway, in the McKinney/Majette example that I referenced earlier, you'll recall that a big reason McKinney lost is because of her pro-Palestinian stance. Majette took advantage of the party crossover allowance in Georgia primaries (where registered voters from one party are allowed to vote in the other party's primary) by entering the race as a Democrat (although she had previously had Republican leanings) in order to attract a ton of Republican voters from the North side of Atlanta who voted in the primary and ousted McKinney. A lot of Jewish groups funded Majette's campaign as well. In the end McKinney's dad blamed her loss on the "J-E-W-S."

At any rate, my original statement was that many liberals have turned against our Israel policy, and the theory is that they would be reluctant to vote for a Jewish president who might want to keep a pro-Israel stance instead of moving toward neutrality. It's kind of like when everyone talks about how Bush's faith might affect policy.

Nothing for you to be embarrassed about. It's a question rooted in how a candidate might view policy. It's not about bigotry.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 30):
I am still perplexed by your comments about liberals having an issue voting for a Jewish candidate. Michael Bloomberg has a much better chance at winning the liberal leaning state of California than your conservative state of Georgia.

Here is a rather recent incident of how conservatives in Georgia feel about Jews. Luckily Max Burns had his ass handed to him on election day by a Democrat.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 30):
Whata f--king coward! Wow!
Why couldn't Max Burns condemn those rabid anti-Jewish remarks on the spot in front of the voters? scratchchin

Yeah, it reminds me of what Cynthia McKinney's father said about "J-E-W-S" and how I didn't hear anyone on her side condemning him for it.
 
767Lover
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
As you have seen in your own district, anti-Jewish attitudes is NOT supported by most liberals/Democrats.
Again, ask Cynthia McKinney. Time to throw away that script my friend.

Again, it was because of the crossover vote that she lost.

Fly, it seems that you are taking my comments the wrong way. I don't think liberals have a problem voting for Jewish people out of bigotry -- of course not! It is about Middle East policy and how a candidate might be influenced by personal biases.

At any rate, it probably won't be a factor anyway.
 
Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:56 pm

767Lover:
I thought you had better memory than this. I followed that election very closely. I know the ends & outs of that race. No need for you re-explain what happened in 2002. In 2006 McKinney lost fair & square to a lifelong Democrat Hank Johnson with the support of Democratic voters.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 35):
Nothing for you to be embarrassed about.

"Embarrassed"?  Wow!
Ummm, you should be embarrassed by your factually incorrect remark in reply #7.
Fact check; left leaning California has no problem with electing and re-electing our two Jewish Senators. Even DLO21 pointed out that a Jewish person would have a hard time winning in the very conservative state of Georgia.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 35):
and the theory is that they would be reluctant to vote for a Jewish president who might want to keep a pro-Israel stance instead of moving toward neutrality. It's kind of like when everyone talks about how Bush's faith might affect policy.

...and those are the liberal voters that would be reluctant to supporting ANY candidate that is seen as pro-Israeli stalwart even if they aren't Jewish. You are referring to the Lyndon LaRouche crowd that didn't support Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996. A fringe group that is so out there that they don't even register on the political radar.

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 35):
Yeah, it reminds me of what Cynthia McKinney's father said about "J-E-W-S" and how I didn't hear anyone on her side condemning him for it.

Are you kidding?  Wow!
You should have tuned in to N.P.R. (National Public Radio) when that was going on. They were ripping her a new one!
Same in the N.Y. Times, Washington Post, L.A. Times and just about every relevant media outlet. Perhaps you just chose to not see it.
Also fmr. Senator Conrad Burns of Montana had a similar incident as Max Burns when a supporter ask how could live in Washington with all of those n----rs. Senator Burns found it funny and just said it was a "hell of a challenge".
I saw NO ONE on the right condemn those remarks!
Yet the right will fall all over themselves trying to appear pro-Jewish only by supporting Israel. You and DLO21 do a good job at following this newest GOP strategy but there is something far more sinister behind this that I don't think you fully understand. Luckily it's not working either as John Kerry won 78% of the Jewish vote.
So do you still want to talk about Michael Bloomberg or just let this thread die? He announced that he is not running. If he changes his mind, he'll still lose.
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dl021
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:48 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
OK so who is playing up his Jewish factor?



Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
I haven't heard him play this up at all.

Dude...no one is so far, but it's been mentioned....he certainly won't make a big deal out of it. I was making a point to answer someone elses. Don't jump to the defensive so quickly.....this was a hypothetical to show the difference between two extremes.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
if some one made a rabid anti-Jewish remark in a crowd to Congressman John Lewis,

That's not true. When Billy McKinney made his comments Lewis was very silent for a good while. It wasn't until he was forced to make a comment that he did.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 34):
As you have seen in your own district, anti-Jewish attitudes is NOT supported by most liberals/Democrats.
Again, ask Cynthia McKinney. Time to throw away that script my friend.

You sir are incorrect there. McKinney won her district twice with those sentiment playing large in her campaigning.....even when she lost some dude was chased off by her staff for being apparently Jewish and they hurled epithets at him telling him they were'nt the PLO and he couldn't attack them when he was simply there to ask questions. Using her as an example of non-anti-semetic democrats is not gonna work. I don't think that most Democrats are anti-semetic....I do believe that a goodly number of them would have difficulty with anyone who said they wanted to clamp down on PLO violence and did not criticize Israel for defending themselves.


DUde...you're going after a statement after misapprehending the premise and the intent. Look again and see what I'm talking about.
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Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:04 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 38):
That's not true. When Billy McKinney made his comments Lewis was very silent for a good while. It wasn't until he was forced to make a comment that he did.

Was John Lewis present when Billy McKinney made that remark?
If you scroll up, It was 767Lover that dragged the McKinney's in to this debate. I pointed out that Wank Johnson who is a life long Democrat defeated McKinney.

Michael Bloomberg is so irrelevant that him being Jewish wont be a factor for the reason he'd lose. ..and who was the first to bring it up in the first place?  talktothehand 
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CastleIsland
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:36 am

Having started this thread, I hereby declare that

Quoting Superfly (Reply 39):
Wank Johnson

is all this thread is worth at this point.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Superfly
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RE: NYC Mayor Bloomberg Leaves GOP

Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:21 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 40):
is all this thread is worth at this point.

:o Embarrassment Embarrassment
So so sorry! Embarrassment


I meant to type Hank Johnson.
Gee I always make these typos that could have a double meaning.  boggled 

No offense to the honorable Congressman from Georgia #4.
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