UH60FtRucker
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Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:29 pm

A report was released by the "Center For American Progress and Free Press" that detailed the break down of talk radio in America.

What the report found was that radio was vastly dominated by conservative talk shows:

Quote:

-- In the spring of 2007, of the 257 news/talk stations owned by the top five commercial station owners, 91 percent of the total weekday talk radio programming was conservative, and only 9 percent was progressive.

-- Each weekday, 2,570 hours and 15 minutes of conservative talk are broadcast on these stations compared to 254 hours of progressive talk --- 10 times as much conservative talk as progressive talk.

-- 76 percent of the news/talk programming in the top 10 radio markets is conservative, while 24 percent is progressive.

But really, did any of us really need a report to tell us this? Conservatives listen to radio talk shows, no big surprise there. I'm sure if you broke down NPR's listener base, the majority would be liberal.

But the real surprise in the report was their proposed solution to this perceived imbalance:

Quote:

-Restore local and national caps on the ownership of commercial radio stations.

-Ensure greater local accountability over radio licensing.

-Require commercial owners who fail to abide by enforceable public interest obligations to pay a fee.

They reject that this is a result of the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine in 1987. They argue that the FD was actually not repealed, but instead, the FCC decided to no longer enforce certain aspects. Thus, the government still has the authority to begin enforcing the doctrine, at their will.


They also reject the argument that this is a result of market demand:

Quote:
This argument is misleading on numerous fronts. Although talk radio audiences tend to be more male, middle-aged, and conservative, research by Pew indicates that this audience is not monolithic--- 43 percent of regular talk radio listeners identify as conservative, while 23 percent identify as liberal and 30 percent as moderate. 16 The ideological breakdown of the country as a whole during this same period was very similar---36 percent conservative,
21 percent liberal, and 35 percent moderate. It is difficult to argue that the existing audience for talk radio is only interested in hearing one side of public debates given the diversity of the existing and potential audience.

However, this is where I take issue with their findings.

This has EVERYTHING to do with market demand! You can't throw out this argument "Oh well the country isn't a majority conservative, so the breakdown of listeners shouldn't be a majority of conservatives." Because the truth is, radio is still a business, and what's popular, is what sells and gets on the air. The Pew Institute did a study of the break down of listeners to Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Air America.

-20% of Rush Limbaugh listeners identified themselves as liberal. 30% of O'Rielly listeners identified themselves as liberal. And 85% of Air America listeners identified themselves as liberal.

The same institute found that 35% of NBC's "West Wing" watchers were Republicans.

People watch and listen to these programs because they WANT too. Regardless of their political affiliation. For whatever reason they're entertained by these radio personalities. Liberal shows - for example Air America - have had their shot. They simply DON'T SELL.

Who are we to dictate to companies how they should organize their programs? Radio is a venue that conservatives turn too. So what? If a radio show catering to liberal outlooks is put on the air - they have an equal opportunity to succeed. All they need to do is attract listeners, and hold on to them.

We need to remember, it's OPPORTUNITY to succeed in life that is guaranteed. Success, itself, is not.

-UH60
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:32 pm

Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:40 pm

CFAP & FP is out to lunch on this one. They've gone to all this trouble to refute Pew data and other miscellany academically but they've forgotten the one fact that's most difficult to ignore: conservative talk is listened to by a boatload of liberals, for both entertainment and awareness purposes.

It is difficult to argue that the existing audience for talk radio is only interested in hearing one side of public debates given the diversity of the existing and potential audience.

As UH60 says, what the existing audience should be interested in hearing is irrelevant in the face of what they're actually doing. Market behavior is the only thing that matters and 'fair' is a misnomer in all forms of media regardless.
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deltagator
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:49 pm

Expect N1102A to give you his opinion (which of course in his opinion should be your opinion.)

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
Who are we to dictate to companies how they should organize their programs?

The same group of people who are considering "windfall taxes" on profits from the oil industry that are in line with normal operating profits.  sarcastic 

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
People watch and listen to these programs because they WANT too.

In most case yes but there is that decent sized group that listens just to be outraged and offended and hope they happen across some nugget or remark in a brainfreeze like Imus so they can get dissenting opinion off the air.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
Liberal shows - for example Air America - have had their shot. They simply DON'T SELL.

But don't you see we just can't have that. Air America must be on the air to counter the horrible lies of the right wing who hate black folks and immigrants.  Wink (I'm kidding for those of you have no sense of sarcasm.)

Makes me think of Mother Russia...we'll pretend to broadcast meaningfull material and you'll pretend to listen. Eventually it will collapse on itself.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
We need to remember, it's OPPORTUNITY to succeed in life that is guaranteed. Success, itself, is not.

Now don't go throwing logic into the mix.  Wink
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cfalk
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:53 pm

I have a theory about why conservatism rules radio and liberalism rules TV. Please feel free to shoot holes in this theory if you want - hell, I just thought of it.

The core values of conservatism is reason. People reap what they sow. You are responsible for your own actions. Government is enherantly inefficient, therefore the government role in society should be restricted, in accordance to Adam Smith. Etc. etc. These are rational arguments defendable by reason, though emotionally they may seem sometimes heartless.

The core values of the left are more emotional. Compassion, fairness, redistribution of income, peace and love, etc. all have their roots in emotional arguments. They cannot be easily defended by reason - their attraction is based on sympathy and the desire to help others - emotionally driven.

TV can convey a lot of emotion. You have pictures, and the brain processes these pictures into emotional feedback - you see pictures of starving babies in Somalia or explosions in Baghdad, that will ellicit more of an emotional impact than if you just heard about it.

Talk radio has no pictures. It depends purely on the spoken word, and for 2 or 3 hours (the duration of a typical talk show), the host must be able to tell his story, mostly unscripted. If his arguments are not rational and logical, the listener will quickly understand that it's nonsense, and turn away. In talk radio, they spend far, far more time than on TV explaining the basis for their beliefs - their rational core. And as Air America proved once again, you cannot successfully convey emotional arguments for hours on end without the aid of pictures to tug at the heartstrings.

I'd be interested to know if there is a survey of how many hours per day people who describe themselves as liberal spend watching TV versus conservatives. I expect conservatives watch less TV because they are less attracted to its emotional contents. They want the facts. Liberals might be more interested in 'the experience'.

Anyway, those are just a few thoughts off the top of my head.
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Mir
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 4):

If Conservatives are guided by reason, they're not showing it on talk radio. Limbaugh and Hannity are not two people who spring to mind when I think of the word "reason".

-Mir
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L-188
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
"Center For American Progress and Free Press"

Boy there is a 'code-name' if I ever read one.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
254 hours of progressive talk ---

Lesson here kids, if you start reading "progressive" you should start figuring that you are dealing with an uber-liberal that wishes to conceal that fact.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
This has EVERYTHING to do with market demand!

And it should, despite what the nearly bankrupt "Air America" claims.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
Because the truth is, radio is still a business, and what's popular, is what sells and gets on the air.

Which is why "Air America" has never been a profit generator.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 2):
It is difficult to argue that the existing audience for talk radio is only interested in hearing one side of public debates given the diversity of the existing and potential audience.

I think that is disproven by the following numbers.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
20% of Rush Limbaugh listeners identified themselves as liberal. 30% of O'Rielly listeners identified themselves as liberal. And 85% of Air America listeners identified themselves as liberal.

The same institute found that 35% of NBC's "West Wing" watchers were Republicans.
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seb146
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:28 am

As a moderate, I listen to Limbaugh then switch over to Randi Rhodes and compare notes. I look at voting records of congresspeople and sometimes listen to the debates on C-SPAN. I can tell you both Limbaugh and Rhodes put their own spin on things. However, Rhodes does give credit where credit is due and lets out verbal lashes when necessary more so than Limbaugh.

I also think, since conservatives were on the airwaves first and in the smaller markets first, they are the ones most listened to. There are a lot of people out there in all that space: Alliance, Nebraska; Chico, California; Page, Arizona; Utica, New York and on and on and on..... Conservative talk show hosts got their message out there first and made themselves and the party they represent sound like they care. They have managed to keep that momentum going. That is my opinion on the study.

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Aaron747
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 2):
It is difficult to argue that the existing audience for talk radio is only interested in hearing one side of public debates given the diversity of the existing and potential audience.

I think that is disproven by the following numbers.

That wasn't my quote - I was actually disagreeing with that statement UH60 quoted from the report in the original post.
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stlgph
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:37 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
This has EVERYTHING to do with market demand!

And it should, despite what the nearly bankrupt "Air America" claims.

Wrong.



Radio isn't what it used to be. 97% Stations are no longer independent of one another. They are owned in massive amount of broadcast groups, such as Clear Channel, Fox News Radio, etc.

The reason these shows are "so popular" is because these are the only shows that are given the most opportunity for air play, air time, and promotional consideration. Left winging programs won't be on the air on these stations. Instead they have to go on smaller stations with smaller towers, small frequencies, etc. etc. Hence the lesser listening audience.

Most of the outlets that own radio stations are conservative-agenda-minded. Most newspaper organizations are not.

It is as simple as that.

But in the end, there is only one true dominance power that has stayed tried and trueover the years in radio, and that is easy listening/soft rock. #1 in over 90% of the markets for over 15 years.
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halls120
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
This has EVERYTHING to do with market demand! You can't throw out this argument "Oh well the country isn't a majority conservative, so the breakdown of listeners shouldn't be a majority of conservatives." Because the truth is, radio is still a business, and what's popular, is what sells and gets on the air. The Pew Institute did a study of the break down of listeners to Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Air America.

-20% of Rush Limbaugh listeners identified themselves as liberal. 30% of O'Rielly listeners identified themselves as liberal. And 85% of Air America listeners identified themselves as liberal.

The same institute found that 35% of NBC's "West Wing" watchers were Republicans.

People watch and listen to these programs because they WANT too. Regardless of their political affiliation. For whatever reason they're entertained by these radio personalities. Liberal shows - for example Air America - have had their shot. They simply DON'T SELL.

Who are we to dictate to companies how they should organize their programs? Radio is a venue that conservatives turn too. So what? If a radio show catering to liberal outlooks is put on the air - they have an equal opportunity to succeed. All they need to do is attract listeners, and hold on to them.

We need to remember, it's OPPORTUNITY to succeed in life that is guaranteed. Success, itself, is not.

-UH60

Or, as I constantly remind my children, "life isn't fair."

Out in San Francisco, where the population is fairly liberal, (OK, very liberal  Smile ) liberally-focused talk radio does just fine. KPFA in Berkeley is as about as left as you can get, and KGO has always had several liberal or liberal-leaning talk hosts.

I tried listening to Air America. I really did. And it really sucked.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3):
Expect N1102A to give you his opinion (which of course in his opinion should be your opinion.)

 rotfl  What's even better is when he gives you his opinion based on his erroneous legal conclusions.  biggrin 
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Duff44
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:54 am

I don't listen to any political talk on radio, because nobody is "in the middle". Everyone who opens their yap on radio is either a right-wing nutjob or pseudo-commie who has an extremist agenda to push. I don't subscribe to either theory.

Plus, I don't want to be angered listening to the radio in my car. I'd rather listen to something entertaining or to music. Luckily I have Sirius so I have a bunch of choices.
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cfalk
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:08 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
If Conservatives are guided by reason, they're not showing it on talk radio. Limbaugh and Hannity are not two people who spring to mind when I think of the word "reason".

I've never listened to Hannity on the radio, but on TV he has not impressed me as a good debater. Too knee-jerk, and too quick to anger, although when he keeps his cool he can come up with formidable arguments.

Rush is better. His political and social philosophy is clear as day - he is a 100% conservative. He does not spend as much time as I would like rationally defending his viewpoint, even though he could - he seems to prefer spending his time exposing the logical failures of American liberalism. I think he assumes too easily that his logical basis is so evident that he doesn't need to explain it - I disagree. Logical thinking is not something that the average Joe Public is good at.

And if you think that Rush sounds unreasonable, I don't think you've been listenning to his show. I've turned several people I know onto him, who have been lifelong democrats, and after a few months of listening to Rush have radically changed their politics. They now listen to politicians and the media with a healthy scepticism, whereas before they would simply regurgitate whatever they heard.

O'Reilly probably spends the most time on his radio show trying to explain why he thinks the way he does. I often don't agree with his rationale, but kudos to him for at least trying. What bugs me the most about him is his condescending tone, which I find extremely annoying.
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bhmbaglock
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:03 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
This has EVERYTHING to do with market demand! You can't throw out this argument "Oh well the country isn't a majority conservative, so the breakdown of listeners shouldn't be a majority of conservatives." Because the truth is, radio is still a business, and what's popular, is what sells and gets on the air.

I haven't heard one liberal talk show host who understands that building listenership is about entertainment more than politics. You'd think that some of the failed attempts from the entertainment industry would understand this but obviously they don't

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
If Conservatives are guided by reason, they're not showing it on talk radio. Limbaugh and Hannity are not two people who spring to mind when I think of the word "reason".

Ever listen to Mike Malloy. Everything's relative I guess. For years, his show was often the only thing you could pick up near the state line on I-20 between BHM and ATL if you couldn't stand Country or shove it down your throat religion. The guy is an absolute nut job.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 9):
Radio isn't what it used to be. 97% Stations are no longer independent of one another. They are owned in massive amount of broadcast groups, such as Clear Channel, Fox News Radio, etc.

... Westwood One which is now involved with Air America to some extent. The truth is that Talk Radio is primarily an AM entity and it's not that tough to get hold of an AM station. We've easily had 100s of stations on AM(and FM for that matter), switch formats to Latino over the past 5 years. Yes, there are several large companies involved with many of these but they've grown it tremendously because it's entertaining and they worked to build an audience. TANSTAAFL! as always.

Rush started on one station in CA and Hannity on one station in AL. They had to work their way to where they are now. Why should Air America have it handed to them?

Quoting Duff44 (Reply 11):
I don't listen to any political talk on radio, because nobody is "in the middle".

There's actually quite a few middle/moderate types in local talk radio around the country. One of the things that really pisses me off about this survey is its intellectual dishonesty in assuming that all talk radio that isn't "Progressive", must therefore be "Conservative". Never mind that there is a significant amount of libertarian talk show hosts doing very well out there, i.e Boortz and my local favorite Matt Murphy.
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Mir
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:33 am

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 13):
Ever listen to Mike Malloy.

Can't say I have. Talk radio (with the exception of sports talk) generally gets on my nerves after about five minutes, so I rarely listen to it.

-Mir
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bhmbaglock
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:57 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
Can't say I have. Talk radio (with the exception of sports talk) generally gets on my nerves after about five minutes, so I rarely listen to it.

You might last 30 seconds with him. Maybe a minute if he's distracted by adjusting the tinfoil hat and not talking as much.
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RJdxer
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:25 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
Restore local and national caps on the ownership of commercial radio stations.

I agree. Used to be you could own 3, two am's and an fm or the other way around. Now you can own up to 49% of the market place. When that rule went into effect in 1996 a lot of people in mass media lost their jobs, both on air and off.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
Ensure greater local accountability over radio licensing.

You still can file a grievance at license renewal time. That never changed.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
Require commercial owners who fail to abide by enforceable public interest obligations to pay a fee.

The FCC still can fine a station for not keeping proper records. What changed with the fairness doctrine was that silly rule that you had to keep track of every PSA you ran as well as the topic and nature of every program that ran.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 9):
Radio isn't what it used to be. 97% Stations are no longer independent of one another. They are owned in massive amount of broadcast groups, such as Clear Channel, Fox News Radio, etc.

97% seems a little high. There are roughly 10,000 radio stations in the U.S. and I don't think that even includes the 80-90 drop ins. In actuality some of the larger corps, like CC for instance, have been quietly selling off some of the smaller stations that are basically satellites to any top 100 market. There are very few mom and pop stations left but a lot of the smaller market stations are owned by a local broadcast company.

If the democrats in Washington think they can silence Rush, Hannity, and the rest by reinstituting the fairness doctrine, all they will suceed in doing is sticking a fork in AM radio stations across the country because the hosts that count will just vacate to satellite radio and the internet. Democrats just don't seem to learn from the past. Remember when they were going to teach those filthy rich people that they needed to pay their fair share back in the middle 80's and slapped a huge luxury tax on yachts and such? By the middle 90's all they had suceeded in doing was reducing the yacht building industry here in the U.S to next to nothing.
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cfalk
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:25 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 16):
If the democrats in Washington think they can silence Rush, Hannity, and the rest by reinstituting the fairness doctrine, all they will suceed in doing is sticking a fork in AM radio stations across the country because the hosts that count will just vacate to satellite radio and the internet.

I think that is the whole idea. Liberals have tried to compete on a level playing field, and failed. Rather than concede talk radio to conservatives, they now want to destroy the medium with the fairness doctrine, which would make shows like Rush unworkable in a practical sense. Internet and Satellite radio don't have nearly the listenership that AM does - just ask Howard Stern.
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allstarflyer
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:01 pm

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
This has EVERYTHING to do with market demand!

 checkmark 

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
People watch and listen to these programs because they WANT too.

 checkmark 

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 3):
Expect N1102A to give you his opinion (which of course in his opinion should be your opinion.)

 rotfl 

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 4):
TV can convey a lot of emotion. You have pictures, and the brain processes these pictures into emotional feedback - you see pictures of starving babies in Somalia or explosions in Baghdad, that will ellicit more of an emotional impact than if you just heard about it.

Talk radio has no pictures. It depends purely on the spoken word, and for 2 or 3 hours (the duration of a typical talk show), the host must be able to tell his story, mostly unscripted. If his arguments are not rational and logical, the listener will quickly understand that it's nonsense, and turn away. In talk radio, they spend far, far more time than on TV explaining the basis for their beliefs - their rational core. And as Air America proved once again, you cannot successfully convey emotional arguments for hours on end without the aid of pictures to tug at the heartstrings.

Excellent post.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 9):
Left winging programs won't be on the air on these stations. Instead they have to go on smaller stations with smaller towers, small frequencies, etc. etc.

Not entirely true. In Indy, one of the (few) major stations switched from an afternoon/evening/midnight format of Hannity/Savage/Ingraham/Dolye to one of Dennis Miller/Glenn Beck/Mike McConnell/Alan Colmes - not a whole lot of difference until the late night (except Miller is probably considered moderate). I almost never listen to it anymore (except they have O'Reilly still).

-R
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RJdxer
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:54 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
Internet and Satellite radio don't have nearly the listenership that AM does - just ask Howard Stern.

If Rush and the others switch over there will be a huge spike in sales on the satellite radio system that signs them.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 18):
Quoting STLGph (Reply 9):
Left winging programs won't be on the air on these stations. Instead they have to go on smaller stations with smaller towers, small frequencies, etc. etc.

A station at 540 on the am dial can put out 500 watts at night and if the station doesn't switch to its assigned pattern, it will broadcast to half the country. The tower won't have to be much more than 300ft high either. It's not necessarily about power and height. If left leaning programs sold they would be on the air at the big clear channel, and I don't mean the company, am stations. 1420 am in Cleveland is a pretty low power am station yet for a number of years Gary Dee was number one in the morning and a lot of people in the market couldn't even hear him till the sun came up in the winter time. It was about what he was doing, not about the station he was on.
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Go3Team
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:09 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 17):
Internet and Satellite radio don't have nearly the listenership that AM does - just ask Howard Stern.

Yeah, but doesn't he claim that everyone that has Sirius listens to him?
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charlienorth
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:19 pm

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 13):

Ever listen to Mike Malloy. Everything's relative I guess. For years, his show was often the only thing you could pick up near the state line on I-20 between BHM and ATL if you couldn't stand Country or shove it down your throat religion. The guy is an absolute nut job

Oh yea Mike Malloy...Mr. I'm afraid of the flying monkey right,he used to be on WLS,nobody was too broken up when he was fired...the liberal talk show host I liked listening to was Jay Marvin and the main reason was that he was also entertaining,even if you didn't agree with him he kept an interesting dialogue going,he also discussed subjects other than politics,music,movies,sports..unfortunately his contract was not renewed and he is at a radio station out of Boulder Co,can't remember the callsign though.
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stlgph
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 16):
97% seems a little high. There are roughly 10,000 radio stations in the U.S

Clear Channel outright owns over 1,100 radio stations in the U.S. They used to own over 2,000, but sold off of some of the stations -- however they have maintained broadcast management and programming air rights for some 3,000 radio stations in the U.S. ... meaning they control/have very very very very strong influence over what goes on the air.

Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 13):
Rush started on one station in CA and Hannity on one station in AL. They had to work their way to where they are now. Why should Air America have it handed to them?

Air America isn't in the business to ruthlessly take over any station they can buy and dominate and control it's programming.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 4):
I expect conservatives watch less TV because they are less attracted to its emotional contents. They want the facts. Liberals might be more interested in 'the experience'.

Not applicable for a comparison. Radio has sound just as much as tv has sound. Radio also has room for more commentary. You can't make personal commentary against pictures that are displaying the story.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 18):
In Indy, one of the (few) major stations switched from an afternoon/evening/midnight format of Hannity/Savage/Ingraham/Dolye to one of Dennis Miller/Glenn Beck/Mike McConnell/Alan Colmes - not a whole lot of difference

Okay...you're comparing the color red to the color red. And...?
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cfalk
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Fri Jun 22, 2007 11:56 pm

Quoting Go3Team (Reply 20):
Yeah, but doesn't he claim that everyone that has Sirius listens to him?

That's a crock. Sirius now has 6 or 7 million subscribers. Mostly they listen in the car on the way to and from work, and do we really expect that they all only listen to Howard and none of the 100 other channels? In that case, why are they there?

Rush has 13 or 14 million listeners every day, but everyone in the country has an AM radio.
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nosedive
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:00 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 4):

The core values of the left are more emotional.



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 4):

The core values of conservatism is reason.

Personally, I've heard both on both.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 4):
You have pictures,

Both sides have pictures. Few on either side have answers. You're just pulling party line.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 16):
There are very few mom and pop stations left but a lot of the smaller market stations are owned by a local broadcast company.

Who owns whatDamn shame it's not by city or by marketshare. Plus, it's 4 yrs old, but you get the idea.
 
deltagator
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 22):
Clear Channel outright owns over 1,100 radio stations in the U.S. They used to own over 2,000, but sold off of some of the stations -- however they have maintained broadcast management and programming air rights for some 3,000 radio stations in the U.S. ... meaning they control/have very very very very strong influence over what goes on the

And if liberal talk radio made the ratings it would be on the air at the direction of Clear Channel. Bottom line, it has been given its chance and it hasn't done good hence the lack of it being programmed on stations.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 22):
Air America isn't in the business to ruthlessly take over any station they can buy and dominate and control it's programming.

Maybe because they don't have any money to buy anything let alone pay their salaries (yes, I know that has been taken care of now.) Nevermind the fact that they aren't in the business of running radio stations but rather putting together radio programs for broadcast. There is a big difference.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
cfalk
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:09 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 22):
Air America isn't in the business to ruthlessly take over any station they can buy and dominate and control it's programming.

Air America isn't in the business of doing ANYTHING, anymore. They were losing stations left and right, to the point of Air America was actually paying local stations to allow them airtime, instead of the reverse. And even their George Soros funding couldn't handle that for long.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 22):
Not applicable for a comparison. Radio has sound just as much as tv has sound. Radio also has room for more commentary. You can't make personal commentary against pictures that are displaying the story.

Pictures are overwhelming. You show bloody carnage, and the voice-over's message is not likely to sink in if does not directly reinforce the image. For instance, if live TV cameras were on Omaha Beach on D-Day, showing body parts flying around by the thousands (which happened), and the voice-over is saying that this was a resounding success (which it was), there would be a complete disconnect in the mind of most viewer. Emotion trumps reason every time in many, many people.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
nosedive
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
"Center For American Progress and Free Press"

Boy there is a 'code-name' if I ever read one.

"About Us"
Heh, that "What is a Progressive" diagram shows all what is wrong with American politics, implied partisanship.
 
stlgph
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:16 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 25):
Maybe because they don't have any money to buy anything let alone pay their salaries (yes, I know that has been taken care of now.) Nevermind the fact that they aren't in the business of running radio stations but rather putting together radio programs for broadcast. There is a big difference.

Again, Air America wasn't in the business to go out and take over the world of radio. It's like trying to compare your local airport remote parking shuttle to Greyhound.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 25):
And if liberal talk radio made the ratings it would be on the air at the direction of Clear Channel. Bottom line, it has been given its chance and it hasn't done good hence the lack of it being programmed on stations.

Going "left" won't happen because Clear Channel has been right-wing agenda driven since the day of its inception.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 26):
Emotion trumps reason every time in many, many people.

Yes but how many stories really truly get good visuals such as the one you described? Not that many. If we could show pictures from Operation: Success, I mean, the War in Iraq, of all the soldiers who had their heads, necks, legs, arms, etc. blown off from roadside bombs, the approval rating would definitely be in the negatives. And yet the uber righty FCC won't allow for that. Ironic, eh?
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cfalk
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:32 am

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 27):
"About Us"
Heh, that "What is a Progressive" diagram shows all what is wrong with American politics, implied partisanship.

There is a perfect example of the irrationality of "Progressives", leftists, liberals, whatever you want to call it.

Quote:
As progressives we believe that America should be a country of boundless opportunity—where all people can better themselves through education, hard work, and the freedom to pursue their dreams. We believe this will only be achieved with an open and effective government that champions the common good over narrow self-interest,

On the one hand, "we believe that America should be a country of boundless opportunity—where all people can better themselves through education, hard work, and the freedom to pursue their dreams" - In other words, where people work for their self-interest.

On the other hand, "We believe this will only be achieved with an open and effective government that champions the common good over narrow self-interest" - self interest is bad.

WTF???

Quoting STLGph (Reply 28):
Yes but how many stories really truly get good visuals such as the one you described? Not that many. If we could show pictures from Operation: Success, I mean, the War in Iraq, of all the soldiers who had their heads, necks, legs, arms, etc. blown off from roadside bombs, the approval rating would definitely be in the negatives.

We've seen plenty of bombings etc. etc to spoil any good feelings, thank you very much. Or do you like to revel in others' pain, like those people who went there to defend your right to be irreverant when you talk about religion, or not to wear a towel on your head?
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
nosedive
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 12:55 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 29):
to wear a towel on your head?

Hey, there's a picture right there: an over painted picture of who wants to kill you.
 
RJdxer
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:00 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 22):
Clear Channel outright owns over 1,100 radio stations in the U.S.

Yes, and how many of them are talk radio stations which seems to be the democrats big bugaboo. They, and the other big conglomerates have proved one thing over the past 11 years since the telecommunications act was passed, that they can screw up a music format as badly as a 20 year old in east BF Alabama in his first programming job.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 22):
Air America isn't in the business to ruthlessly take over any station they can buy and dominate and control it's programming.

Neither is Rush, or Hannity, or any other syndicated show. They are in business to make sales by providing a show that stations will buy and people will listen too. None of the Talknet radio stars of the 80's, King, Raphel, or any of the others even made a dent in the marketplace compared to Rush. The sad part is that the Corps see putting on mediocre talent in front of and after Rush and syndicating that is some how better than having good local talent. I'll never forget the day we were sold to Clear Channel and one of their corporate assholes had the audacity to put up a sign that read "Cost Center Number One" on the news room door. That was the day I decided good radio had just died and to go look for another career.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 22):
Okay...you're comparing the color red to the color red. And...?

And there's different shades of red . . . and your point is?

Cfalk's remarks were spot on.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 4):
TV can convey a lot of emotion. You have pictures, and the brain processes these pictures into emotional feedback - you see pictures of starving babies in Somalia or explosions in Baghdad, that will ellicit more of an emotional impact than if you just heard about it.

Talk radio has no pictures. It depends purely on the spoken word, and for 2 or 3 hours (the duration of a typical talk show), the host must be able to tell his story, mostly unscripted. If his arguments are not rational and logical, the listener will quickly understand that it's nonsense, and turn away. In talk radio, they spend far, far more time than on TV explaining the basis for their beliefs - their rational core. And as Air America proved once again, you cannot successfully convey emotional arguments for hours on end without the aid of pictures to tug at the heartstrings.



Quoting STLGph (Reply 22):
You can't make personal commentary against pictures that are displaying the story.

Even though pictures help to tell the story, they also further influence the experience (even potentially in an emotional way) of the viewer. Basically, liberal viewpoints aren't as attractive to the average listener, because on radio, the listener is required to process the information with greater discernment, and the liberal viewpoints are usually viewed as too shallow and/or skewed.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 22):
Air America isn't in the business to ruthlessly take over any station they can buy and dominate and control it's programming.

Air America set out to challenge conservative talk radio for a share or control of the market of listeners, and the market has obviously spoken.

A few thoughts I have on TV and radio - I haven't had my own TV for 5 years, and I haven't lived in a place that has had one for 1 1/2. IMO, TV dulls the mind of the viewer - even the energy fed from TV just seems to have a negative effect. TV doesn't engage the viewer, mainly because there's little to no active response required, whereas radio requires attentive listening, thus, the listeners of radio are going to want to have substantial, thought-provoking content. And the market has shown who brings that.

Here's a couple of sites I found with some info about effects of TV.
http://world.std.com/~jlr/comment/tv_impact.htm
http://www.changingchannels.org/effects.htm

-R
Living the American Dream
 
stlgph
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:22 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 32):
Cfalk's remarks were spot on.

No, they weren't.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 29):
We've seen plenty of bombings etc. etc to spoil any good feelings, thank you very much. Or do you like to revel in others' pain, like those people who went there to defend your right to be irreverant when you talk about religion, or not to wear a towel on your head?

But I thought you said you wanted pictures, didn't you?

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 32):
Even though pictures help to tell the story, they also further influence the experience (even potentially in an emotional way) of the viewer. Basically, liberal viewpoints aren't as attractive to the average listener, because on radio, the listener is required to process the information with greater discernment, and the liberal viewpoints are usually viewed as too shallow and/or skewed.

You can't really lie with photos to emotions. You can most definitely sway them with words.

Did you take Sociology 101 in college? I'm also guessing you missed the lesson on aesthetics from Immanuel Kant in Philosphy 101?

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 32):
Air America set out to challenge conservative talk radio for a share or control of the market of listeners, and the market has obviously spoken.

For the upteetnth time now, Air America did not set out to overrun radio, as Clear Channel or Fox News Radio programming has.

It set out with a completely different objective. As I said, it's like comparing one airport shuttle bus with the entire Greyhound network.

I guess this is a difficult concept for you to understand, but I really look forward to hearing the answers if you understand Sociology or Kant's principles, even though I can already guess the earth shattering response.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:41 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 33):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 32):
Cfalk's remarks were spot on.

No, they weren't.

Spoken as one with absolute authority on the matter.  sarcastic  Care to elaborate why for those of us supposedly uninformed?

Quoting STLGph (Reply 33):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 32):
Air America set out to challenge conservative talk radio for a share or control of the market of listeners, and the market has obviously spoken.

For the upteetnth time now, Air America did not set out to overrun radio, as Clear Channel or Fox News Radio programming has.

Relax. Breathe.Now, what about the simplicity of the comments I offered did you not understand? Maybe you could offer more than just this . . .

Quoting STLGph (Reply 22):
Air America isn't in the business to ruthlessly take over any station they can buy and dominate and control it's programming.

. . . and tell us why Air America actually was in business. If the listeners had enjoyed hearing Air America, then Air America wouldn't have suffered.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 33):
I guess this is a difficult concept for you to understand

 rotfl  Oh, do tell "enlighten" us as to the philosophy of the beautiful and sublime, as Kant would have you.

Here's an even more simple concept I think you'll understand, but will not (or simply cannot) refute.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 32):
TV doesn't engage the viewer, mainly because there's little to no active response required, whereas radio requires attentive listening, thus, the listeners of radio are going to want to have substantial, thought-provoking content. And the market has shown who brings that.

Very telling that you did not (or, perhaps more accurately, could not) give a legitimate response or rebuttal to it. For one who works in TV, it kinda hits at the core, eh?

-R
Living the American Dream
 
stlgph
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 34):
Spoken as one with absolute authority on the matter. Care to elaborate why for those of us supposedly uninformed?

Have you worked in tv, newspapers, or radio?

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 34):
Relax. Breathe.Now, what about the simplicity of the comments I offered did you not understand? Maybe you could offer more than just this . .

I'm am relaxed. I just don't get how the obvious is something so hard to miss.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 34):
Very telling that you did not (or, perhaps more accurately, could not) give a legitimate response or rebuttal to it. For one who works in TV, it kinda hits at the core, eh?

TV is just as much about listening as radio is. If it wasn't, we'd just run pretty little pictures all day and not worry about writing scripts to go along with it, or making sure the closed captioning works for the hard at hearing people at home.

Also, with TV, we have fun animations, graphics, charts, and full screens.

It's a lot more comprehensive and engaging than a radio broadcast.
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deltagator
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 33):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 32):
Cfalk's remarks were spot on.

No, they weren't.

Back up your opinion Gavin instead of just the equivalent of a "nanny nanny boo boo" and that is piss poor coming from someone who apparently has enough talent to be an on-air personality.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 33):
For the upteetnth time now, Air America did not set out to overrun radio, as Clear Channel or Fox News Radio programming has.

It set out with a completely different objective. As I said, it's like comparing one airport shuttle bus with the entire Greyhound network.

I guess this is a difficult concept for you to understand, but I really look forward to hearing the answers if you understand Sociology or Kant's principles, even though I can already guess the earth shattering response.

Your response to BHM's comment about how Rush and Hannity started out small and didn't have anything handed to them was that Air America didn't start out to dominate radio stations. Of course they didn't and neither did Rush or Hannity. They, like Air America, are in the business of providing radio shows for broadcast. They are not involved in the day to day running of a radio station or a conglomerate of them.

He never mentioned Clear Channel or Fox News Radio in his comment...you did in an attempt to stear off in a different direction because his point doesn't fit your argument. Because you know that Air America hasn't succeeded with their message or ability to bring in advertising revenue on the stations that they do air on regardless of the size or market you try to change the subject.

I really hope your reporting isn't that shoddy in thought process.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
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falstaff
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:54 am

Right Wing Talks shows on AM radio are on because they sell add space. It is as simple as that. People listen. Who listens. What is the average age of the talk radio listener? I don't know. But most people who I know who listen to talk radio are over 30. When I was younger I still listened the radio, but mostly music stations. A lot of the liberals I knew when I was in college never listened to AM radio. They had no idea who or what was even on. If there was a radio station full of left wingers they probably would not have listened anyway because AM radio seems old fashioned. I have listened to talk radio for years and some of may favorite shows had nothing to do with politics. Most of my AM talk listening was and is 760 WJR in Detroit, KTRS 55 and KMOX 1120 in St. Louis. I used to Listen to 1310 in Dearborn, but they went to Air America and I think it is just over the top dumb. For one solid week before they went on with Air America they played nothing but donkey sounds. I found it to be childish and stupid. I don't waste my time listening to them. That station was very fair in playing both sides of the aisle, but now they are all leftist.

I always listen to people knock on right wing radio show hosts, but few people who knock on them ever listen to the people they complain about. Many times they don't know know what they are complaining about.

I like Rush, most of the time, but everyone has to remember he is an entertainer. Much in the same way as Howard Stern. They both entertain with different material, but both entertain none the less.

The USA is a big place an none one will ever agree on what they want to hear on the radio.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 23):
Sirius now has 6 or 7 million subscribers. Mostly they listen in the car on the way to and from work

That is me. I never listen to Howard Stern. Don't like him. I would never want to pull him off the air because he has the right to heard if people choose to listen to him.
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stlgph
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:56 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 36):
Back up your opinion Gavin instead of just the equivalent of a "nanny nanny boo boo" and that is piss poor coming from someone who apparently has enough talent to be an on-air personality.

Sorry. I'm in the biz. He's not. You're not. He's wrong. I don't tell you how to how to load Miss Pac Man on the office computers now do I?

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 36):
Of course they didn't and neither did Rush or Hannity.

No one starts off in the broadcasting business without the hopes of getting and going bigger.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 36):
He never mentioned Clear Channel or Fox News Radio in his comment...you did in an attempt to stear off in a different direction because his point doesn't fit your argument.

I didn't mention Clear Channel or Fox News to steer off any comments. They're the big owners in radio. It's like mentioning retail giants and leaving out...say Wal Mart, Target, etc.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 36):
Because you know that Air America hasn't succeeded with their message or ability to bring in advertising revenue on the stations that they do air on regardless of the size or market you try to change the subject.

Do I really have to tell you all (again) that Air America was not out to overrun radio...is this Special Education Day or something? Jesus people.
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deltagator
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 38):
Sorry. I'm in the biz. He's not. You're not. He's wrong. I don't tell you how to how to load Miss Pac Man on the office computers now do I?

What a pathetic response. I'm in the business, you're not, you're wrong, and I won't give any examples of why I think that. So much for responsible journalism.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 38):
No one starts off in the broadcasting business without the hopes of getting and going bigger.

No one said that at all. But to compare Rush and Hannity providing programming versus Clear Channel running tons of stations and reducing costs but spreading programming and talent across multiple stations is comparing apples and oranges.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 38):
I didn't mention Clear Channel or Fox News to steer off any comments. They're the big owners in radio. It's like mentioning retail giants and leaving out...say Wal Mart, Target, etc.

Again, apples and oranges. Content versus station programming. Your argument for retail doesn't fit here.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 38):
Do I really have to tell you all (again) that Air America was not out to overrun radio...is this Special Education Day or something? Jesus people.

No you don't have to keep repeating it unless you want your argument to be continually pointed out as being flawed. But now you've caught yourself in a pickle. By you own admission nobody enters the broadcasting business without hopes of getting bigger and you have applied that to both radio content (Rush and Hannity) as well as radio programming (Clear Channel, Fox News.) But then you come back and say Air America never started out to overrun radio.

So which is it Gavin? Did they enter into broadcasting to get big as you claim everyone does or did they get into it to be a bit player?

Edit: spellcheck

[Edited 2007-06-22 19:24:06]
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
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falstaff
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 38):
Do I really have to tell you all (again) that Air America was not out to overrun radio...is this Special Education Day or something? Jesus people.

You said it yourself.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 38):
No one starts off in the broadcasting business without the hopes of getting and going bigger.

That may have not been their plan, but if Air America would have become large and very popular I would bet they would would continue to expand and increase their fortunes. That is the way of capitalism. I am sure Rush wasn't planning to a big as he is when he first started.
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allstarflyer
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:15 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 35):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 34):
Spoken as one with absolute authority on the matter. Care to elaborate why for those of us supposedly uninformed?

Have you worked in tv, newspapers, or radio?

No, and here's another telling thing about you - you do work in TV, so you should be the one informing us.  eyebrow 

Here's a glimpse how . . .

Quoting STLGph (Reply 9):
Quoting L-188 (Reply 6):
Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
This has EVERYTHING to do with market demand!

And it should, despite what the nearly bankrupt "Air America" claims.

Wrong.

 scratchchin  You never told us how or why the market that Air America did have never took to them.

You also said this . . .

Quoting STLGph (Reply 22):
Quoting BHMBAGLOCK (Reply 13):
Rush started on one station in CA and Hannity on one station in AL. They had to work their way to where they are now. Why should Air America have it handed to them?

Air America isn't in the business to ruthlessly take over any station they can buy and dominate and control it's programming.

. . . after which I said this . . .

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 34):
tell us why Air America actually was in business.

. . . to which you have not given any response.

You can't just make comments like this . . .

Quoting STLGph (Reply 33):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 32):
Cfalk's remarks were spot on.

No, they weren't.

. . . and expect them (or you) to be taken seriously unless you offer more about how and why - for example, in the last quote, you didn't say why Cfalks remarks were not spot on, but you simply went on quoting him instead of explaining some more.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 35):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 34):
Relax. Breathe.Now, what about the simplicity of the comments I offered did you not understand? Maybe you could offer more than just this . .

I'm am relaxed. I just don't get how the obvious is something so hard to miss.

Then (to quote you) for the umpteenth time enlighten all of us.

Quoting STLGph (Reply 35):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 34):
Very telling that you did not (or, perhaps more accurately, could not) give a legitimate response or rebuttal to it. For one who works in TV, it kinda hits at the core, eh?

TV is just as much about listening as radio is. If it wasn't, we'd just run pretty little pictures all day and not worry about writing scripts to go along with it, or making sure the closed captioning works for the hard at hearing people at home.

Also, with TV, we have fun animations, graphics, charts, and full screens.

It's a lot more comprehensive and engaging than a radio broadcast.

You work in TV - tell us how and why you come to this conclusion. So you have fun - whoop dee doo and good for you. Tell us why it should be more compelling than radio.

And I'm not the only one who can see through all of this from you . . .

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 36):
Back up your opinion Gavin



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 36):
you did in an attempt to stear off in a different direction because his point doesn't fit your argument



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 36):
I really hope your reporting isn't that shoddy in thought process.

 eyebrow 

-R
Living the American Dream
 
Superfly
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:25 am

Air America didn't do well because liberal felt like the station was just saying stuff we already knew. Liberals don't need to be consistently spoon-fed information from the radio. Nor do we expect news to be 'entertainment'.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Thread starter):
I'm sure if you broke down NPR's listener base, the majority would be liberal.

Because we want to hear an in-depth discussion about a given topic and hear both sides of the issues. National Public Radio simply reports the news in a mature presentation. Not with juvenile sound bits, spin and attitude like with the conservative shows.
National Public Radio is one of the few un-biased news sources in the United States possibly the best news source.
The few times I've tuned in to the conservative shows, I come away feeling like I just heard some conservative 16-20 A.net member in the non-avition forums ranting on the microphone.

I like good entertainment just as anyone else but I want my news to be detailed, factual, un-biased and I don't care how boring it is. That doesn't have mass appeal so of course its not going to be profitable.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 40):
I am sure Rush wasn't planning to a big as he is when he first started.

Wasn't he always "big"?
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falstaff
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:28 am

Quoting STLGph (Reply 35):
Have you worked in tv, newspapers, or radio?

I did. It wasn't much. I was the manager of a public access station in college for two years. It barely was TV, but it was still TV.
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deltagator
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:32 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 42):
National Public Radio simply reports the news in a mature presentation. Not with juvenile sound bits, spin and attitude like with the conservative shows.
National Public Radio is one of the few un-biased news sources in the United States possibly the best news source.

Did you get to the Last Comic Standing tryouts down in LA because that was funny as hell!  Wink

I'm not saying that conservative radio is opposite of what you are saying but to claim NPR is un-biased is flat out wrong. They have their bias just as much as any outlet does regardless of the side of the aisle they are on.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
Superfly
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:38 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 44):
I'm not saying that conservative radio is opposite of what you are saying but to claim NPR is un-biased is flat out wrong. They have their bias just as much as any outlet does regardless of the side of the aisle they are on.

I have to disagree. I know of several Republicans that watch the show and prefer them as there source for news. They have plenty of conservative and Republican guest appear on there programs.
The only time I ever heard a bias on NPR is when they were ripping on fmr. Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, a liberal.
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deltagator
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:40 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 45):
The only time I ever heard a bias on NPR is when they were ripping on fmr. Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, a liberal.

That wasn't bias...that was common sense. McKinney is at best a buffon and deserved every bit of criticism she got for her idiotic ways.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
UH60FtRucker
Topic Author
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:15 am

RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:42 am

Quoting Superfly (Reply 42):
Air America didn't do well because liberal felt like the station was just saying stuff we already knew. Liberals don't need to be consistently spoon-fed information from the radio. Nor do we expect news to be 'entertainment'.



Quoting Superfly (Reply 42):
Because we want to hear an in-depth discussion about a given topic and hear both sides of the issues. National Public Radio simply reports the news in a mature presentation. Not with juvenile sound bits, spin and attitude like with the conservative shows.
National Public Radio is one of the few un-biased news sources in the United States possibly the best news source.
The few times I've tuned in to the conservative shows, I come away feeling like I just heard some conservative 16-20 A.net member in the non-avition forums ranting on the microphone.

Well jeez Superfly... I'd hope this would be a thread about the fairness doctrine/forcing through legislation that companies give more airtime to liberal talk shows/etc....

But, once again, thanks for jamming your opinions on conservatives vs. liberals down our throats. Oh, and thanks for all of those generalizations! Of course... I'm sure you wouldn't mind if someone made unfounded, stereotypical generalizations about African Americans, would you?

-UH60

[Edited 2007-06-22 19:42:53]
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stlgph
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:44 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 39):
What a pathetic response. I'm in the business, you're not, you're wrong, and I won't give any examples of why I think that. So much for responsible journalism.

And I'm sure you tell pilots how to fly their planes, right?

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 39):
Again, apples and oranges. Content versus station programming. Your argument for retail doesn't fit here.

And you don't get programming. Tis ok, we understand. Well, at least I understand.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 39):
No you don't have to keep repeating it unless you want your argument to be continually pointed out as being flawed.



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 39):
Did they enter into broadcasting to get big as you claim everyone does or did they get into it to be a bit player?

Oh yeah. Their goals are to stick in market 350 making $200 a week for 40 years.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 40):
That may have not been their plan, but if Air America would have become large and very popular I would bet they would would continue to expand and increase their fortunes. That is the way of capitalism. I am sure Rush wasn't planning to a big as he is when he first started.

Air America wasn't set up that way. They couldn't. Licensing, syndication deals.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 41):
No, and here's another telling thing about you - you do work in TV, so you should be the one informing us

I am informing you.

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 43):
I did. It wasn't much. I was the manager of a public access station in college for two years. It barely was TV, but it was still TV.

Sure...

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 41):
Then (to quote you) for the umpteenth time enlighten all of us.

I have. I told you from the start how it is since I'm the one that is here and you aren't. I don't see the reason to quote or cite myself.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 41):
You work in TV - tell us how and why you come to this conclusion. So you have fun - whoop dee doo and good for you. Tell us why it should be more compelling than radio.

Okay, let's see.

Today's Noon Show...

Sound On Tape - 8 seconds
Wipe to
Anchor Voice Over - 8 seconds
Wipe to
Live Stand Up - 12 seconds
Wipe to
Animation
Wipe to
Opening Credits
Wipe to
Anchor shot over the shoulder graphic
Cut to double boxes with moving background and over the head graphics
Cut to single reporter shot with locator
Roll tape for voice over
Lower anchor key reveals detailing information
Cut to sound on tape interview with name super - 12 seconds
Shoot to continuing rolling tape voice over
Cut back to double boxes with the anchor with cutline and moving background
Wipe out of the video in the double box on the right to the reporter
Reporter tag
Thanks on camera
Anchor swings to camera 2 with over the shoulder graphic
Story reader with 4 over the shoulder reveals
Stay on camera 2, change over the shoulder graphic
Wipe to video with locator
Insert high anchor key reveals (3) on the right side of screen
Wipe to anchor
Anchor swings to camera 3, insert back to double boxes, rolling background, graphics
Video plays in double box
Wipe to push back reveals in the double back (3 reveals)
Wipe in double box to reporter
Bring reporter to full, name font, full screen monitor background
Take package

Yeah, so that was the first 2 minutes and 22 seconds of the noon newscast.

And when I was listening to the radio, the same schmuck was talking in a monotone voice for about 3 minutes.

And yet radio is much more compelling and requires more attention.

*SURE*

Seriously, whatever you computer people and airline dispatchers and other fine "people in the know" insist. If it makes your day, go right ahead. After all, I'm here to please the people at home.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Superfly
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RE: Fairness In US Talk Radio?

Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:46 am

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 47):
I'm sure you wouldn't mind if someone made unfounded, stereotypical generalizations about African Americans, would you?

Ideology and race are two different things. You know better than that.
I wasn't forcing anything down anyone's throat either. I just gave my perspective and how I see it. You don't have to agree.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 46):
That wasn't bias...that was common sense. McKinney is at best a buffon and deserved every bit of criticism she got for her idiotic ways.

Most would agree.
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