trav110
Posts: 536
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:49 pm

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:34 am

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...le/2007/07/05/AR2007070502178.html

Quote:
"OMAHA, Neb. -- A member of a Kansas group that has drawn criticism for protesting at soldiers' funerals was charged Thursday with misdemeanors after her son stomped on a U.S. flag during a demonstration last month.

Shirley Phelps-Roper, 49, of Topeka, Kan., was charged with negligent child abuse, contributing to the delinquency of a minor, flag mutilation and disturbing the peace."

Wow. Good for the Omaha P.D.
 
san747
Posts: 4345
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:03 am

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:36 am

Are those jail-punishable offenses? BTW, Shirley Phelps is the mother, correct?

At any rate, good to see something being done against these people...
Scotty doesn't know...
 
trav110
Posts: 536
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:49 pm

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:39 am

Quoting San747 (Reply 1):
Are those jail-punishable offenses? BTW, Shirley Phelps is the mother, correct?

Yes. She's the daughter of the former cult-leader Fred Phelps, and she's the most vocal of the WBC. Hopefully, for her children's sake, they'll be taken away.
 
piercey
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:44 am

Old news, this was reported a few months back...

piercey in CLE  Sad
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:53 am

Quoting Piercey (Reply 3):
Old news, this was reported a few months back...

From the article:

"Funeral Protester Charged in Flag Stomp

By OSKAR GARCIA
The Associated Press
Thursday, July 5, 2007; 10:31 PM

OMAHA, Neb. -- A member of a Kansas group that has drawn criticism for protesting at soldiers' funerals was charged Thursday..."

This thread is about a mother getting charged. Yesterday.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
piercey
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 12:59 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 4):
This thread is about a mother getting charged. Yesterday.

I swear this happened a few months back...

Oh well, might be thinking of this: Fred Phelps: God Hates America. Court: Suck It! (by MDorBust Apr 14 2007 in Non Aviation)

piercey in CLE  Sad
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:01 am

Quoting Trav110 (Thread starter):
was charged Thursday with misdemeanors after her son stomped on a U.S. flag during a demonstration last month.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/53486/

The arrest was last month. The new charges were made yesterday.

Yey Omaha!
International Homo of Mystery
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting Piercey (Reply 5):
I swear this happened a few months back...

Well, it's nothing but good news if this sort of thing is happening repeatedly and we get the repeated events a tad jumbled. Keep it up, WBC. You can't implode soon enough. There's no way that hatred can keep an organization on firm ground for long. I just hope I'm around to witness the implosion. I'll bring the burgers and dogs.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
WrenchBender
Posts: 1662
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:59 am

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:22 am

Actually we did discuss it, including what the charges might be.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/1634719

WrenchBender
Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:29 am

Quoting Trav110 (Reply 2):
She's the daughter of the former cult-leader Fred Phelps

Isn't he still a cult leader?

And as much as I hate to say it, I have to side with her in this one. If she wants to let her kid trample on the flag, it doesn't reflect very well on her at all, but it shouldn't be illegal.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:29 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 9):
If she wants to let her kid trample on the flag, it doesn't reflect very well on her at all, but it shouldn't be illegal.

I'm all about free speech, too, but where does it stop? If they stomp on the flag, then some of their enemies stomp on the Bible (since they say they follow it), or, even more directly, on pictures of her children. Then that can get into issues of implying assault against the kids. One might say the flag is a symbol of freedom, while Phelps might say it's a symbol of immorality. She might say that her children are then a picture of purity, while another (maybe the Patriot Guard - but I don't think them to be this classless - I'm just making an analogy) might call the children a picture of hatred, now and to come.

The flag carries symbolism - it's not just a piece of cloth. WTG Omaha.

-R
Living the American Dream
 
Mir
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Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:47 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 10):
If they stomp on the flag, then some of their enemies stomp on the Bible

Alright. As far as I'm concerned, that goes with free speech too.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 10):
or, even more directly, on pictures of her children. Then that can get into issues of implying assault against the kids.

It can, and that would be a problem. But that's not her problem - it is the responsibility of protestors (or counter-protestors as the case may be) to remain sensible as to the boundaries of the law.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 10):
The flag carries symbolism - it's not just a piece of cloth.

The flag is physically a piece of cloth - the symbolism it carries is not stitched into it at the factory, it is solely a creation of the individual, and the individual has the right to think what they want to think about it. But any action taken against the flag does not specifically commit harm against anyone, or imply an advocation of such. And thus, it should be protected as free speech.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12426
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:55 pm

I think the local prosecutor may be an attention whore much like too many of them are. I don't think a parent allowing their minor child to stomp on an American flag, as offensive as it is to many Americans, is negligent child abuse, but it could be used as a predicate behavior to further investigate the parent(s) to see if they are violating laws as to negligence or child abuse laws. Perhaps in other ways, such as a parent(s) encouragement of violating hate speech laws with their children, they could be subject to further investigation and possible prosecution of the parent as well as placement of the child into the social services protective process.
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:38 pm

I agree with Mir that some of the specific charges here are questionable on First Amendment grounds. Texas v. Johnson established that flag burning was a legal form of political speech, so stomping on a flag, which is a lesser form of flag desecration, would also be legal, I would assume. However, the charge of negligent child abuse could well stand up in court. When the Phelps' bring their young children to their protests, they are knowingly putting them at risk of injury from counterprotestors who might throw litter, rocks, etc. Plus, turning your child into a mindless bigot is itself a form of abuse.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
 
sw733
Posts: 5308
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sun Jul 08, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 10):
I'm all about free speech, too, but where does it stop? If they stomp on the flag, then some of their enemies stomp on the Bible (since they say they follow it), or, even more directly, on pictures of her children

I'll stomp on her face.


Any crazy Phelps getting charged is a good thing...I hate those guys being a mere 25 miles to my west.
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:20 am

Talk about double standards, the ACLU represents everything the Crazy Phelps group riles about, and now Phelps is trying to get the ACLU to represent his daughter.  eyebrow 
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:06 am

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 13):
Texas v. Johnson established that flag burning was a legal form of political speech, so stomping on a flag, which is a lesser form of flag desecration, would also be legal, I would assume.

Somebody correct me on this if I'm wrong, but isn't the correct way to dispose of a flag to burn it (obviously not while waving it around triumphantly and shouting about how much you hate America, of course)? I could see the argument being made that stomping on the flag is a greater offense than burning it, but I still believe it falls under the first amendment.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
sw733
Posts: 5308
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 15):
Talk about double standards, the ACLU represents everything the Crazy Phelps group riles about, and now Phelps is trying to get the ACLU to represent his daughter.

It's because, if you look deep down into Mr. Phelps, deep into his eyes, and deep into his heart...you'll see he's a total effin' idiot.
 
Mir
Posts: 19108
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:38 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 17):
It's because, if you look deep down into Mr. Phelps, deep into his eyes, and deep into his heart...you'll see he's a total effin' idiot.

Do you really have to look that deep to see it?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
sw733
Posts: 5308
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

RE: Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:45 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 18):
Do you really have to look that deep to see it?

No, no...the fact that when I talked to him it took him simply 90 seconds to call me "a fag" (even though my girlfriend was right next to me) shows me enough  Smile
 
Yellowstone
Posts: 2821
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:32 am

RE: Shirley Phelps Charged With Negligent Child Abuse

Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:49 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
Somebody correct me on this if I'm wrong, but isn't the correct way to dispose of a flag to burn it

Yes, but...

Quoting Mir (Reply 16):
obviously not while waving it around triumphantly and shouting about how much you hate America

I'm guessing most flag desecration laws would make that distinction.
Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.

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